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My Urban Garden (2 Viewers)

Her method in the vid, two stems per plant produces less fruit, but big juicy ones, and it's an industry standard in greenhouses. You make up for less fruit per plant by having more plants per sq ft., in the end having a bigger harvest of better tomatoes.
The guy on Gardening by the Yard said basically the same thing about staking (which the string method is essentially producing the same effect). He said that you will get fruit earlier than not staking and while you will produce less fruit with staking, you will produce better fruit. He said it may not be any bigger, but it will be more flavorful. He also said that one problem with staking is that in the real heat of summer you might find some of the fruit burned so let some of the suckers near the top grow instead of pulling them. Provides more shade as well as more leaves to absorb the sun to create more energy. I have never done this. I get into sucker removal mode as soon as my mater flower and don't stop till they die off. One more thing that won't have any impact till the end of the season. My maters produce fruit right up till the first frost. They don't produce as fast once the temp starts dropping but they still produce fruit. When you know it's going to be the first frost, harvest everything. They will ripen inside on a window sill just fine. They won't be as good as what you had all summer but still better than what you can get from the grocer. Throw a few in a brown bag with an apple and they will ripen pretty quickly. Last year I pulled off two plastic grocery bags full of tomatoes. Gave a bunch away and kept some for myself. Speaking of that, if you have more than one plant you will probably need friends to help you eat them all...
 
JerseyToughGuys said:
TheFanatic said:
zander_s said:
Almost lost the herbs when we had the couple days of 100+ temps but they are rebounding nicely.
I have done the herb garden before but found that I only really used Basil and Rosemary and that some didn't handle direct sun very well. Both Basil and Rosemary do. So after the first year of Oregano and Thyme burning up, I have stuck with my two mainstays. Just planted my basil on Sat. Put the Rosemary in last week....I've got flowers on my Lemon Boy mater plant...
I just planted a couple basil plants. From the kit i'm hoping the rosemary, cilantro and chives survive. I don't use much parsley and i can't even remember what the last one is. Knew i didn't use it but it came with the kit.I had to restake my roma bush as it was getting top heavy with fruit. I may have to make some sort of trellis fot the container its in. Or, this one may have to go in the ground!!

Got my first jalapeno bud starting!!
Quick tip on Basil. Don't let them flower. At the top of a stem smaller leaves will start to form and on top of that a conical shaped deal will develop and turn into little white flowers. When the little leaves (they are way different than the other leaves so you will know what I am talking about) start to sprout out, pull them and the top couple of the regular leaves off the stem. The reason to do this is once the basil flowers it spends more energy on reproducing than growing and the basil can become bitter. The leaves will shrivel and not grow near as large either.If you want to see what happens if you don't do this, let one stem flower and pull the buds off the others. That one stem will be all shriveled and have small leaves. The rest of the plant will have large leaves and will not shrivel.

The thing you have to ask yourself with all those herbs is, do you have enough recipes for all of them? I still have a lot of basil that goes to waste. Fresh mozzarella (the soft stuff in the tube or in oil), fresh tomato chunked up, fresh basil leaves, and a little olive oil makes an amazing meal. That's right. The Grillin Fool can go vegetarian every now and again!?!?! Swap feta for the mozzarella, add olives, cucumber and some red onion you have an authentic greek salad (no lettuce in real greek salads).
you can tell you are from the midwest... :thumbup:
That's not a midwestern thing. That's a lazy thing. There are millions of people out there that think cheese only comes pre sliced or pre shredded. My wife thinks that the grocery store brand cheese pre sliced in the package is better than the deli cheese they sell. I haven't had the heart to break it to her that the stuff in the deli is the stuff they slice to put into those plastic packages.
 
I have a deck off my Brooklyn apartment, about 3 feet of it gets sun for about 6 hours a day. What can I grow there in pots? I was thinking of trying tomatoes, some strawberries and some herbs. When should I plant them and how much water? We just had snow today, so I'm thinking another few weeks at least.
:lmao:
I got your back Otis. I'm going to post some pics of my prospect heights set up as soon as I figure out my image shack login. All things considered, the plants doing well. I just wish I had known ahead of time that I won't get strawberries in year one. I'm not sure the way I have them planted will keep them alive until year two.
 
I just planted a couple basil plants. From the kit i'm hoping the rosemary, cilantro and chives survive. I don't use much parsley and i can't even remember what the last one is. Knew i didn't use it but it came with the kit.I had to restake my roma bush as it was getting top heavy with fruit. I may have to make some sort of trellis fot the container its in. Or, this one may have to go in the ground!!

Got my first jalapeno bud starting!!
Quick tip on Basil. Don't let them flower. At the top of a stem smaller leaves will start to form and on top of that a conical shaped deal will develop and turn into little white flowers. When the little leaves (they are way different than the other leaves so you will know what I am talking about) start to sprout out, pull them and the top couple of the regular leaves off the stem. The reason to do this is once the basil flowers it spends more energy on reproducing than growing and the basil can become bitter. The leaves will shrivel and not grow near as large either.If you want to see what happens if you don't do this, let one stem flower and pull the buds off the others. That one stem will be all shriveled and have small leaves. The rest of the plant will have large leaves and will not shrivel.

The thing you have to ask yourself with all those herbs is, do you have enough recipes for all of them? I still have a lot of basil that goes to waste. Fresh mozzarella (the soft stuff in the tube or in oil), fresh tomato chunked up, fresh basil leaves, and a little olive oil makes an amazing meal. That's right. The Grillin Fool can go vegetarian every now and again!?!?! Swap feta for the mozzarella, add olives, cucumber and some red onion you have an authentic greek salad (no lettuce in real greek salads).
you can tell you are from the midwest... :o
That's not a midwestern thing. That's a lazy thing. There are millions of people out there that think cheese only comes pre sliced or pre shredded. My wife thinks that the grocery store brand cheese pre sliced in the package is better than the deli cheese they sell. I haven't had the heart to break it to her that the stuff in the deli is the stuff they slice to put into those plastic packages.
just poking fun at "the fresh stuff" being the stuff in a "tube"
 
I got complaints/grumbling about my "garbage can" potato bin...so I built a nicer redwood potato box that I saw from lifehacker...http://lifehacker.com/5202849/grow-100-lbs...n-4-square-feet
100lbs of potatoes from 4sqft. Im so doing this.Chaos Commis - Holy crap man, you take this to a whole nother level. You do this as a hobby, or is this somehow your job?
Get the potatoes in the ground right away. I planted German Butterballs. I've been getting positive comments on my redwood box too, and people have been pretty interested in the concept. We'll see how it all goes.
 
siffoin said:
E-Z Glider said:
I got complaints/grumbling about my "garbage can" potato bin...so I built a nicer redwood potato box that I saw from lifehacker...http://lifehacker.com/5202849/grow-100-lbs...n-4-square-feet
100lbs of potatoes from 4sqft. Im so doing this.Chaos Commis - Holy crap man, you take this to a whole nother level. You do this as a hobby, or is this somehow your job?
Get the potatoes in the ground right away. I planted German Butterballs. I've been getting positive comments on my redwood box too, and people have been pretty interested in the concept. We'll see how it all goes.
Yeah, Ive got a bunch of stuff I need to get in the ground. I dug out my old grow-light about 3 weeks ago and started some tomatoes and peppers. My dining room is starting to look like my old dorm-room closet.
 
JerseyToughGuys said:
That's not a midwestern thing. That's a lazy thing. There are millions of people out there that think cheese only comes pre sliced or pre shredded. My wife thinks that the grocery store brand cheese pre sliced in the package is better than the deli cheese they sell. I haven't had the heart to break it to her that the stuff in the deli is the stuff they slice to put into those plastic packages.
just poking fun at "the fresh stuff" being the stuff in a "tube"
To me fresh is the only way to go. But then again, I prefer to buy any cheese in a block and grate myself rather than buy it pre grated or pre shredded. But the vast majority of people buy it pre processed like that and a fresh tomato salad will not be nearly as good with lower quality cheese. A lot of people just don't know how much better the stuff in the tube or the plastic container is over the crap in the bag....I just wish we had more options here in the midwest. It's pretty sad....
 
I just tied off my Lemon Boy and my Super Steak. The Lemon Boy is about 18 inches tall. The other about 14. My other three, Better Boy, Mr. Stripy and Superfantastic, are all only about a foot.

I planted a nice basil plant last weekend and have had my rosemary planted for a couple of weeks.

My peppers are growing but I have not seen my beans or sugar snap peas break the ground yet. I planted them from seed....

I bought a couple of bags of Humus Manure Spread most of it around the base of my trees but the rest I put down around my veggies and then covered in mulch

 
I have about 20 upside down plants thriving in recycbleable shopping bags. I went out and bought a scaffold and some metal pipes yesterday and it hold everything nicely. Plus its on casters so I can roll it around in case it starts getting too hot later in the summer.

Two of these attached with pipe running between them makes a helluva plant stand. I think I will get a second one- with the pipes running between them, I would have the equivalent of three total. I also thiink I will put some risers in the top four holes and drape a bird net over the whole thing.

I am thinging of rigging one of these up for wine grapes, next, altho its too late for this season.

 
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This thread is so :excited:

Okay, I'm off work starting tomorrow through monday, so I'm going to start building my garden.

I have a coworker that is really into this stuff and she gave me instructions for a custom garden foundation (4'x8' box)

Materials:

6 cuts of 2x8 douglas fir (2 of those will be cut in half)

either four 2x4 or four L-brackets to secure the corners

screws

saw

drill

Assemble the perimeter and secure with brackets or 2x4

Lay down weed guard to cover bottom (staple at edges)

Lay down Chicken Wire

Fill in with soil...

Any thoughts on this setup? We're renting the house so I'd like to stay away from using the ground soil/dirt if possible. Seem like I'll have a lot of room to plant a variety of stuff here (even moreso if I decide to go larger on the perimeter).

Also, I'm planning to set this up on a slab of concrete in the backyard. Will I run into any issues with water sitting on concrete for a long time (will the concrete break down over time if the water sits long enough)? Will it affect the growth/quality of the plants?

TIA guys... I'm pretty excited to get started here.

 
I have about 20 upside down plants thriving in recycbleable shopping bags. I went out and bought a scaffold and some metal pipes yesterday and it hold everything nicely. Plus its on casters so I can roll it around in case it starts getting too hot later in the summer.
:confused:
 
What can I use to keep the bugs away.

I have worms/caterpillers getting down deep into the center of my corn, they kinda look like this

I been digging them out with needle nose pliers.

 
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I was looking for this thread ...Which tomatoe's do I want to plant? Im looking to make sauces, chili with them. Also consider canning some for future use
I know I am a little late here but I just saw this thread. I went with whatever the local nursery had the past two years. After reading up on gardenweb.com I went with a bunch of heirlooms this year. They are all seedlings at the moment but I have:Akers West VirginiaNeves Azorean RedRiesentraube (cherry)San Marzano Redorta (paste)Opalka (paste)Jersey Devil (paste)Giant BelgiumMariann's PeaceCherokee PurpleThis is a test year to see which ones I like best. At the moment I have cold weather plants: peas, romaine, broccoli, strawberries, and onions in the garden. All should be ready by June, except for the onions and strawberries. Then it's time to plant the tomatoes, peppers, cantaloupe, beans, cukes, and herbs.
 
Small holes in my tomato plant leaves......I think I have white flies or something. Somebody have an organic solution they like?

Picked a bunch of my herbs yesterday and used them at work. Fennel toast : shrug: Guess that is why I pay a sous chef....i had no idea what to do with it.

 
tipsy mcstagger said:
Small holes in my tomato plant leaves......I think I have white flies or something. Somebody have an organic solution they like?

Picked a bunch of my herbs yesterday and used them at work. Fennel toast : shrug: Guess that is why I pay a sous chef....i had no idea what to do with it.
The list of ingredients small organic growers use in pesticides and fungicides is huge. Garlic, onion, hot pepper, mint, citrus, horseradish, dish soap, molasses, cooking oil, rubbing alcohol, tobacco, tomato leaves, milk, buttermilk, baking powder, talc, flour, corn starch, eggshells, pureed bug juice, etc. I've tried everything, mostly with disappointing results, most success very early in the season with small plants and immature issues. Once a problem matures, you need to head to the nursery and get a product with any combination of neem oil, horticultural oil, and chrysanthemum pyrethrin. You can tell if it's whitefly by running your hands through the plants. They'll dart around. Or you can examine the underside of the leaves to see them. A quarter cup of dishwashing soap (lemon scented preferred) stirred into a half gallon warm water and sprayed directly on them will help. I argue about this though, because as a kid who washed his mouth out with soap more than once, I know the taste and I swear I pick it up in the tomatoes later. So dish soap on young plants only, never on set fruit. Again, the nursery has a soap without the taste that is harder o the bad guys and cheap enough. In either case they are only effective if you directly spray the flies.

You may have mites in which case steeping a bunch of smashed garlic and sliced hot peppers in a pint of water for an hour and adding that to the half gallon with soap will get rid of them, or aphids and probably flea beetles. A tablespoon each of sesame seed oil and flour makes a better surfactant. This paragraph is the recipe for the only homemade spray I use. Though I would try milk solutions for fungal problems, and I agree bugs hate mint.

You could have a bunch of other things causing small holes too, so the neem products have the best chance to solve the problem.

This chart agrees. Neem and pyrethrin cover most of it.

Soap and pyrethrin will also do the job and is safer than the neem. Safer for bees and other beneficial critters that is. Try not to spray flowers or fruit regardless.

 
I was looking for this thread ...Which tomatoe's do I want to plant? Im looking to make sauces, chili with them. Also consider canning some for future use
I know I am a little late here but I just saw this thread. I went with whatever the local nursery had the past two years. After reading up on gardenweb.com I went with a bunch of heirlooms this year. They are all seedlings at the moment but I have:Akers West VirginiaNeves Azorean RedRiesentraube (cherry)San Marzano Redorta (paste)Opalka (paste)Jersey Devil (paste)Giant BelgiumMariann's PeaceCherokee PurpleThis is a test year to see which ones I like best.
This is a good list for picking favorites, but once you go down the heirloom path the possibilities are endless. I think there's almost a thousand varieties available if you seek them (and a few thousand in existence globally). I'd suggest picking your single favorite from this list and moving on to ten other samples next year if you have the soil and talent to grow heirlooms. They lack the disease resistance and hybrid vigor of... hybrids, so crop rotation is often necessary.
 
After 4 days of hard rain, I fear for my crop. Maybe I can start some rice. Note for next year. Drainage is important.
You may be surprised. Sometimes a little rough weather produces great crops. Some swear a good hail storm produces the best tomatoes. GL, and yes, drainage is good, better than rice. Also if the plants are standing in water you can help them out by tossing some very dry mulch on top of the soil to soak things up after the rain subsides. Plastic mulch before the rains came might have helped too. I've used trash bags with good results. Heavy rain can lead to cracked fruit so if it cracks you know what may have caused it.
 
So, of my 5 mater plants, 2 are 3 feet tall. 4 have flowered. One looks like it got part of the base stem damaged. It is growing but can't support it's own weight. I have tied it up to the stake so I hope that will help resolve the issue.

My two bell pepper plants are doing well. But I planted sugar snap peas and green beans from seed like a month ago and I got nothin...

Oh, my grandfather gave me some seeds from the best tomatoes he has ever had. Something called a German Red. Not a ton of fruit but supposedly fantastic. The plastic bottle they are in says 1995. Will these grow? I planted a few seeds in a small pot on Sat. If they grow I will transplant to a very large pot with a stake (no more room in the beds) and give the others to people. Just not sure they will grow...

 
After 4 days of hard rain, I fear for my crop. Maybe I can start some rice.

Note for next year. Drainage is important.
You may be surprised. Sometimes a little rough weather produces great crops. Some swear a good hail storm produces the best tomatoes. GL, and yes, drainage is good, better than rice. Also if the plants are standing in water you can help them out by tossing some very dry mulch on top of the soil to soak things up after the rain subsides. Plastic mulch before the rains came might have helped too. I've used trash bags with good results. Heavy rain can lead to cracked fruit so if it cracks you know what may have caused it.
Huh.... I wondered about that. Makes sense...
 
I plucked the first Roma of my plant over the weekend. Lots of green fruit waiting to ripen!

Got signs of bell peppers and jalapenos.

Should have done some onions, salsa makings would have been complete.

 
This thread is so :pickle:

Okay, I'm off work starting tomorrow through monday, so I'm going to start building my garden.

I have a coworker that is really into this stuff and she gave me instructions for a custom garden foundation (4'x8' box)

Materials:

6 cuts of 2x8 douglas fir (2 of those will be cut in half)

either four 2x4 or four L-brackets to secure the corners

screws

saw

drill

Assemble the perimeter and secure with brackets or 2x4

Lay down weed guard to cover bottom (staple at edges)

Lay down Chicken Wire

Fill in with soil...

Any thoughts on this setup? We're renting the house so I'd like to stay away from using the ground soil/dirt if possible. Seem like I'll have a lot of room to plant a variety of stuff here (even moreso if I decide to go larger on the perimeter).

Also, I'm planning to set this up on a slab of concrete in the backyard. Will I run into any issues with water sitting on concrete for a long time (will the concrete break down over time if the water sits long enough)? Will it affect the growth/quality of the plants?

TIA guys... I'm pretty excited to get started here.
I'm probably late, but I think I would have gone with containers in this situation. The way I modified the Earthtrainer I linked to somewhere in this thread makes the containers (all of them) reusable for storage and moving. As a renter that should be appealing. I suppose you can take apart the raised box and take it with you, but it sounds like a hassle. Whereas, breaking down the containers and using them for their intended purpose is a nice option. I'd estimate your project at $100 before soil. For containers to have that much growing space you'd spend about $200 before soil. But you'd have about 16 storage containers serving as self watering earthboxes, much easier to arrange on the property, no compost tea stains on the concrete, and likely get great results. I'm stunned at the growth in the six I built and they have been watered one time in 12 days in the Mojave Desert where there's already been several 100 degree days. Earthtrainers. He uses two containers to make one self watering grow box. My modification does the same thing, but it doesn't destroy one container by cutting it in half and wedging it into the bottom of the other container. I just cut two wick holes out of the bottom of one, attach two pond filter baskets to the holes, and set that inside the other container. This gives double the space for soil and water capacity, and doesn't completely destroy any containers. I'll post more detailed plans if someone wants them. A 32 gallon grow container costs $25 to build. It's getting pretty late to start though.

 
After 4 days of hard rain, I fear for my crop. Maybe I can start some rice.

Note for next year. Drainage is important.
You may be surprised. Sometimes a little rough weather produces great crops. Some swear a good hail storm produces the best tomatoes. GL, and yes, drainage is good, better than rice. Also if the plants are standing in water you can help them out by tossing some very dry mulch on top of the soil to soak things up after the rain subsides. Plastic mulch before the rains came might have helped too. I've used trash bags with good results. Heavy rain can lead to cracked fruit so if it cracks you know what may have caused it.
Huh.... I wondered about that. Makes sense...
Inconsistent watering is the real problem. In drought the tomatoes get so thirsty they over indulge when they get a drink and the meat of the mater grows faster than the skin can stretch. In flooding the plant works so hard to use the water you get the same cracking results.
 
After 4 days of hard rain, I fear for my crop. Maybe I can start some rice.

Note for next year. Drainage is important.
You may be surprised. Sometimes a little rough weather produces great crops. Some swear a good hail storm produces the best tomatoes. GL, and yes, drainage is good, better than rice. Also if the plants are standing in water you can help them out by tossing some very dry mulch on top of the soil to soak things up after the rain subsides. Plastic mulch before the rains came might have helped too. I've used trash bags with good results. Heavy rain can lead to cracked fruit so if it cracks you know what may have caused it.
Huh.... I wondered about that. Makes sense...
Inconsistent watering is the real problem. In drought the tomatoes get so thirsty they over indulge when they get a drink and the meat of the mater grows faster than the skin can stretch. In flooding the plant works so hard to use the water you get the same cracking results.
I try to water just about every day in the heat of the summer. But I don't soak them. Nothing like they would get in a long rain. More like a quick shower every night....
 
So, of my 5 mater plants, 2 are 3 feet tall. 4 have flowered. One looks like it got part of the base stem damaged. It is growing but can't support it's own weight. I have tied it up to the stake so I hope that will help resolve the issue.My two bell pepper plants are doing well. But I planted sugar snap peas and green beans from seed like a month ago and I got nothin...Oh, my grandfather gave me some seeds from the best tomatoes he has ever had. Something called a German Red. Not a ton of fruit but supposedly fantastic. The plastic bottle they are in says 1995. Will these grow? I planted a few seeds in a small pot on Sat. If they grow I will transplant to a very large pot with a stake (no more room in the beds) and give the others to people. Just not sure they will grow...
My rule of thumb is ten percent per year germination decline, starting from 95% in year two, and the last ten percent lasting 20 years. So 14 year old seed is down to 10% germination power. You may have better results though. I had a farmer in Michigan send me thousands of seeds he'd been saving since the 70s and stopped in the 90s, unlabeled and unknown varieties. It was mostly crap F2 hybrid seed, but the germination rate was over 75% for the lot. Alot of it depends on how well it was processed in year one and how it has been stored since. If you have no luck with the first few, take some down to a professional greenhouse, tell them about the unique seed and ask for a squirt of gibberellic acid. That'll get them going when nothing else will. You may end up with your own heirloom. Most have a story similar to yours. The Fanatic. I'd grow 'em. :thumbup:
 
This thread is so :thumbup:

Okay, I'm off work starting tomorrow through monday, so I'm going to start building my garden.

I have a coworker that is really into this stuff and she gave me instructions for a custom garden foundation (4'x8' box)

Materials:

6 cuts of 2x8 douglas fir (2 of those will be cut in half)

either four 2x4 or four L-brackets to secure the corners

screws

saw

drill

Assemble the perimeter and secure with brackets or 2x4

Lay down weed guard to cover bottom (staple at edges)

Lay down Chicken Wire

Fill in with soil...

Any thoughts on this setup? We're renting the house so I'd like to stay away from using the ground soil/dirt if possible. Seem like I'll have a lot of room to plant a variety of stuff here (even moreso if I decide to go larger on the perimeter).

Also, I'm planning to set this up on a slab of concrete in the backyard. Will I run into any issues with water sitting on concrete for a long time (will the concrete break down over time if the water sits long enough)? Will it affect the growth/quality of the plants?

TIA guys... I'm pretty excited to get started here.
I'm probably late, but I think I would have gone with containers in this situation. The way I modified the Earthtrainer I linked to somewhere in this thread makes the containers (all of them) reusable for storage and moving. As a renter that should be appealing. I suppose you can take apart the raised box and take it with you, but it sounds like a hassle. Whereas, breaking down the containers and using them for their intended purpose is a nice option. I'd estimate your project at $100 before soil. For containers to have that much growing space you'd spend about $200 before soil. But you'd have about 16 storage containers serving as self watering earthboxes, much easier to arrange on the property, no compost tea stains on the concrete, and likely get great results. I'm stunned at the growth in the six I built and they have been watered one time in 12 days in the Mojave Desert where there's already been several 100 degree days. Earthtrainers. He uses two containers to make one self watering grow box. My modification does the same thing, but it doesn't destroy one container by cutting it in half and wedging it into the bottom of the other container. I just cut two wick holes out of the bottom of one, attach two pond filter baskets to the holes, and set that inside the other container. This gives double the space for soil and water capacity, and doesn't completely destroy any containers. I'll post more detailed plans if someone wants them. A 32 gallon grow container costs $25 to build. It's getting pretty late to start though.
Thanks for the feedback, CC.I have decided to go with the half-wine barrel approach. I figured since this is my first time, I'd start out slow. Plus, it was going to cost a pretty penny to throw soil in that 8x4 box (especially with organic soil!).

I was going to go with the plastic bins, but I read somewhere that mold can be an issue if the water doesn't drain properly (not so much of a concern with wood since it absorbs some of the water... or something like that?).

My coworker gave me an Japanese Oxheart tomato plant that is about 6 inches tall right now. Once I get the half wine barrel, I'm going to drill some holes in the bottom, lay down some weed guard, re-plant the tomato plant, and hopefully grow some yummy tomatos!

 
This thread makes me sad. The last danger of frost here is May 15th. Needless to say, my tomatoes have a long way to go.

 
Earthtrainers. He uses two containers to make one self watering grow box. My modification does the same thing, but it doesn't destroy one container by cutting it in half and wedging it into the bottom of the other container. I just cut two wick holes out of the bottom of one, attach two pond filter baskets to the holes, and set that inside the other container. This gives double the space for soil and water capacity, and doesn't completely destroy any containers. I'll post more detailed plans if someone wants them. A 32 gallon grow container costs $25 to build. It's getting pretty late to start though.
I'd be interested in that. One could definitely put some later growing crops in one.
 
Mr. Yuk said:
This thread makes me sad. The last danger of frost here is May 15th. Needless to say, my tomatoes have a long way to go.
Same here. Still planted in early april. Got some snow after I planted. No problem. I just cover the small plants with plant pots or a sheet....For the snow I put some straw on them and then put the pots on them. Worked like a champ....My parents think I'm nuts. Basically, I have ALL perennials in the ground and I plant annuals in pots. for the pots if I can't cover them (big upside down plastic trash cans can cover some really bog pots) then I just pull them into the garage. It's pretty low maintenance and I get a jump on everyone. We do a mother's day party here for both sides of the family. I like to have some good growth by then...
 
Chaos Commish said:
TheFanatic said:
So, of my 5 mater plants, 2 are 3 feet tall. 4 have flowered. One looks like it got part of the base stem damaged. It is growing but can't support it's own weight. I have tied it up to the stake so I hope that will help resolve the issue.My two bell pepper plants are doing well. But I planted sugar snap peas and green beans from seed like a month ago and I got nothin...Oh, my grandfather gave me some seeds from the best tomatoes he has ever had. Something called a German Red. Not a ton of fruit but supposedly fantastic. The plastic bottle they are in says 1995. Will these grow? I planted a few seeds in a small pot on Sat. If they grow I will transplant to a very large pot with a stake (no more room in the beds) and give the others to people. Just not sure they will grow...
My rule of thumb is ten percent per year germination decline, starting from 95% in year two, and the last ten percent lasting 20 years. So 14 year old seed is down to 10% germination power. You may have better results though. I had a farmer in Michigan send me thousands of seeds he'd been saving since the 70s and stopped in the 90s, unlabeled and unknown varieties. It was mostly crap F2 hybrid seed, but the germination rate was over 75% for the lot. Alot of it depends on how well it was processed in year one and how it has been stored since. If you have no luck with the first few, take some down to a professional greenhouse, tell them about the unique seed and ask for a squirt of gibberellic acid. That'll get them going when nothing else will. You may end up with your own heirloom. Most have a story similar to yours. The Fanatic. I'd grow 'em. :popcorn:
So there is a chance they will not grow or they will not produce fruit?
 
Chaos Commish said:
TheFanatic said:
So, of my 5 mater plants, 2 are 3 feet tall. 4 have flowered. One looks like it got part of the base stem damaged. It is growing but can't support it's own weight. I have tied it up to the stake so I hope that will help resolve the issue.My two bell pepper plants are doing well. But I planted sugar snap peas and green beans from seed like a month ago and I got nothin...Oh, my grandfather gave me some seeds from the best tomatoes he has ever had. Something called a German Red. Not a ton of fruit but supposedly fantastic. The plastic bottle they are in says 1995. Will these grow? I planted a few seeds in a small pot on Sat. If they grow I will transplant to a very large pot with a stake (no more room in the beds) and give the others to people. Just not sure they will grow...
My rule of thumb is ten percent per year germination decline, starting from 95% in year two, and the last ten percent lasting 20 years. So 14 year old seed is down to 10% germination power. You may have better results though. I had a farmer in Michigan send me thousands of seeds he'd been saving since the 70s and stopped in the 90s, unlabeled and unknown varieties. It was mostly crap F2 hybrid seed, but the germination rate was over 75% for the lot. Alot of it depends on how well it was processed in year one and how it has been stored since. If you have no luck with the first few, take some down to a professional greenhouse, tell them about the unique seed and ask for a squirt of gibberellic acid. That'll get them going when nothing else will. You may end up with your own heirloom. Most have a story similar to yours. The Fanatic. I'd grow 'em. :)
So there is a chance they will not grow or they will not produce fruit?
I wouldn't expect more than ten percent of 14 year old seed to germinate. It's possible that none will, or you could do better. It's just a rule of thumb. Should you get a plant up and healthy, it will produce the same fruit as grandpa ate as long as the plant is an open pollinated/heirloom. Most saved seed is. Open pollinated means the seed will produce an identical plant as the one from which it came. Heirlooms are open pollinated plants with some historical interest or other value. Hybrid seeds, like from a Better Boy, will not produce a Better Boy. If the Red German is a late season plant, I would grow it in a greenhouse or wait until next Feb/March to start the seed. If it's unknown, I'd save most for next year and experiment very little this year. It's late for starting late bloomers. If it has a 90 day season, not including a week or so to germinate and six weeks weeks to develop, he'll need almost to mid October to ripen (without cold weather). Some heirlooms take over 100 days.
 
I have a 20' square that I have a rabiit fence around and half a dozen wine barrel container plants. They are not doing so hot- as I neglected to add sufficient vermiculite or mulch to my dirt and it gets too compacted.

So I think I am going to start over. I want to build a combination of this enclosed gardening system combined with the self watering properties of the Earthtrainer.

So I will have two ten foot raised beds one two sides and two six foot raised beds on the other two sides (to allow gate access). I think the beds will be about 3' off the ground and 3' from the outer wall to the inside edge.

I think the cheapest way would be to have about 10 containers for water placed beneath the beds, but eaiser would be to use one to four containers for the water. I am playing around with some designs and would appreciate any input.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Earthtrainers. He uses two containers to make one self watering grow box. My modification does the same thing, but it doesn't destroy one container by cutting it in half and wedging it into the bottom of the other container. I just cut two wick holes out of the bottom of one, attach two pond filter baskets to the holes, and set that inside the other container. This gives double the space for soil and water capacity, and doesn't completely destroy any containers. I'll post more detailed plans if someone wants them. A 32 gallon grow container costs $25 to build. It's getting pretty late to start though.
I'd be interested in that. One could definitely put some later growing crops in one.
The stuff you need is in bold. The instructions are in green below, if you want to skip right to them.I may not have accounted for every possible issue with these things, but they are performing nicely so far. The above mention of mold made me think that could be an issue with young plants barely using the water, which is sitting in the bottom now going on two weeks. The $25 does not include soil, and you can accessorize with after market products as much as you want. Mine are in the Mojave so they are wrapped in reflective windshield protectors to keep the soil from overheating. I'm thinking of rigging a toilet float in the reservoirs so they automatically refill to three inches.

The basic grow box requires the following items to construct:

Two containers, 30-32 gallons preferable.

Something like these basic ones is fine. Rubbermaid costs more but supposedly has better UV protection. Which didn't matter to me because I wrapped mine for extreme heat conditions.

I bought 12 32g units @ 8.99 ea @ Kmart to make six grow boxes.

Two 8 or 9 inch pond filter baskets (plant baskets)

Home Depot had these for 1.99 each.

I used the square 9 inchers, but the smaller ones would be fine. I was a little over concerned about water usage in the desert and these baskets provide the space/size of the reservoir. So I went bigger.

A drill.

I used a cordless hammer drill and a wood screw for the bit.

A way to cut the plastic.

I used a circular saw, carefully. A strong carpet razor cuts through with two passes, score it deeply once then got over it and you're through with a little tapping.

8 plastic ties or some heavy gauge galvanized wire.

I used wire because it was on hand. The Earthtrainer instructions use plastic ties. You can get a package of 20 8" ties that will do the job for 2.99 at Ace.

You're at $24.95 before tax. :coffee:

And that's all you need.

I bought the 12 containers planning on following the Earthtrainer pdf instructions. I cut off the bottom portion of the first container (a hassle) as instructed and stared at the whole project for about an hour with my little wheels spinning. I've grown hydroponically for a decade, never in containers like this but with similar concepts, and I had issues with those instructions. I was also feeling a little lazy and unhappy with the fit of my particular containers. They are all shaped a little differently and mine did not do what his did when I inverted and wedged the cut off bottom into the other container. So I put the cut up one to a different job (growing exotic mushrooms in donkey dung) and got a replacement for hopefully a better, much simpler idea. I'll explain why I think so after the instructions.

Anyone (especially you Earthbox people) -- feel free to question and troubleshoot these if you're following along and see an issue.

Instructions:

Inner Container

The bottoms of my containers were exactly 24" long and 13" wide. With a crayon I divided the bottoms into two 12X13 halves. I then drew 3.5" squares in the center of each half and cut them out. The exact math will differ per container sizes, but it's simple enough to figure out. These holes are for wicking moisture from the reservoir to the soil. So...

You have to attach a basket to each hole on the outside bottom of the container. The container should stand raised and level on the attached baskets. Centering each basket over a hole, drill four holes in each corner through the basket edge and through the bottom of the container. I taped the baskets centered to the bottom holes to keep things lined up as I drilled the mounting holes.

Since I used wire run through the holes and twist tightened, I drilled the holes in opposing corners and used one long wire for each basket, fed up through one hole down through the next until they met at the first hole -- tightened it up and snipped the ends. This was fast, simple and really strong when tested. So I drilled a total of 8 holes, four per basket.

If using plastic ties, you drill two holes in each corner an inch or so apart and cinch tighten four ties to each basket. That's sixteen total holes, 8 per basket. It's more work and probably not as strong.

The inner container is now complete. It will be set inside the outer container.

Outer Container

Real easy. My wick baskets are 6" tall. You want a pocket of air between the water level and the soil. So decide where you're going to add water to the outer container (the rim is exposed from the inner container being lifted so you can water where you please all the way around). Measure 4" from the bottom below the fill site and drill a hole. You could just drill a small hole, but I drilled a half inch one that I can close with wine cork. When you add water it will drain out of this hole when "full" thereby providing a two inch pocket of air.

The outer container is now complete.

Set the inner container inside it. The grow box is complete and only needs sunshine, the potting soil, mulch, and plants of your choice, and water.

Some pros to the modification:

Really quick and easy to construct.

As mentioned, cleaned up, baskets removed and with a cardboard liner in the bottom of the inner containers, all containers can be taken down and stacked in storage or used as actual storage containers if wanted, so save the lids.

If you put a flashlight on most of these type of containers, you'll see some light get through. This is bad for things like algae and mold and some other nasty possibilities. Stack one container on top of the other and hit it with the same light and none gets through. So my method blocks more light than the Earthtrainer method. It's not perfect as the reservoir has only one wall, but it is improved, and mine are blacked out by the wrap I mentioned.

Earthtrainers and Earthboxes both hold about 14 gallons of soil, and about 3 gallons of water. My modification allows for six gallons of water, double the reservoir space, a bigger air gap (more oxygen to the roots) and 32 gallons, more than double the space for soil. Professional growers will tell you anything under 10 gallons per normal tomato plant will stunt the plants and lead to root rot destroying late season yield. The other two have 7 gallons each for two tomatoes, mine has 16 each, allowing for much healthier plants. I could and am growing three heirlooms in one container having just over 10 gallons of root space per plant. One common complaint in one forum on topic is how often they need watering.

These haven't used their initial 6 gallons of water in two weeks time. The tomatoes are happy, the soil staying evenly moist through very hot dry days. I used a homemade potting mix that is mostly sterilized leaf compost (60%), some bark (15%), perlite (15%) and a heathy dose of fully composted sterilized horse manure (10%). I also sprinkled a little time release fertilizer on the top and worked it in the top two inches.

As an experiment, on two of them I laid landscape fabric deep inside the inner containers just over the top of the compost filled baskets to prevent roots from getting into them. On two others I wrapped the fabric around the outside of the baskets to keep compost particles from getting into the reservoir. On one I did both; on another I just filled the baskets with potting soil along with the containers. They all seem the same so far.

My intention was to mimic a successful desert test garden and use reflective mulch, but the way these things are conserving water, so far, no mulch. I may drill drain holes in the very bottom to empty the reservoir. That water has to be pretty stinky by now. I just haven't decided if it's necessary and if the cork method is safe or how to seal them while put together.

Another feature is that it is possible early in the season to lift the inner container out of the outer container and drain everything. My guess is that sucker weighed about 120, so prepare to hoist. But this could come in handy for a variety of reason other than just draining. The oxygen charge alone should be great for the young plants.

I'm tired. GL

 
So, of my 5 mater plants, 2 are 3 feet tall. 4 have flowered. One looks like it got part of the base stem damaged. It is growing but can't support it's own weight. I have tied it up to the stake so I hope that will help resolve the issue.My two bell pepper plants are doing well. But I planted sugar snap peas and green beans from seed like a month ago and I got nothin...Oh, my grandfather gave me some seeds from the best tomatoes he has ever had. Something called a German Red. Not a ton of fruit but supposedly fantastic. The plastic bottle they are in says 1995. Will these grow? I planted a few seeds in a small pot on Sat. If they grow I will transplant to a very large pot with a stake (no more room in the beds) and give the others to people. Just not sure they will grow...
My rule of thumb is ten percent per year germination decline, starting from 95% in year two, and the last ten percent lasting 20 years. So 14 year old seed is down to 10% germination power. You may have better results though. I had a farmer in Michigan send me thousands of seeds he'd been saving since the 70s and stopped in the 90s, unlabeled and unknown varieties. It was mostly crap F2 hybrid seed, but the germination rate was over 75% for the lot. Alot of it depends on how well it was processed in year one and how it has been stored since. If you have no luck with the first few, take some down to a professional greenhouse, tell them about the unique seed and ask for a squirt of gibberellic acid. That'll get them going when nothing else will. You may end up with your own heirloom. Most have a story similar to yours. The Fanatic. I'd grow 'em. :lmao:
So there is a chance they will not grow or they will not produce fruit?
I wouldn't expect more than ten percent of 14 year old seed to germinate. It's possible that none will, or you could do better. It's just a rule of thumb. Should you get a plant up and healthy, it will produce the same fruit as grandpa ate as long as the plant is an open pollinated/heirloom. Most saved seed is. Open pollinated means the seed will produce an identical plant as the one from which it came. Heirlooms are open pollinated plants with some historical interest or other value. Hybrid seeds, like from a Better Boy, will not produce a Better Boy. If the Red German is a late season plant, I would grow it in a greenhouse or wait until next Feb/March to start the seed. If it's unknown, I'd save most for next year and experiment very little this year. It's late for starting late bloomers. If it has a 90 day season, not including a week or so to germinate and six weeks weeks to develop, he'll need almost to mid October to ripen (without cold weather). Some heirlooms take over 100 days.
I planted about 10 seeds. I probably have 50 more. So, if I get one to germinate can I just harvest some seeds out of one of the tomatoes for years to come?
 
So, of my 5 mater plants, 2 are 3 feet tall. 4 have flowered. One looks like it got part of the base stem damaged. It is growing but can't support it's own weight. I have tied it up to the stake so I hope that will help resolve the issue.

My two bell pepper plants are doing well. But I planted sugar snap peas and green beans from seed like a month ago and I got nothin...

Oh, my grandfather gave me some seeds from the best tomatoes he has ever had. Something called a German Red. Not a ton of fruit but supposedly fantastic. The plastic bottle they are in says 1995. Will these grow? I planted a few seeds in a small pot on Sat. If they grow I will transplant to a very large pot with a stake (no more room in the beds) and give the others to people. Just not sure they will grow...
My rule of thumb is ten percent per year germination decline, starting from 95% in year two, and the last ten percent lasting 20 years. So 14 year old seed is down to 10% germination power. You may have better results though. I had a farmer in Michigan send me thousands of seeds he'd been saving since the 70s and stopped in the 90s, unlabeled and unknown varieties. It was mostly crap F2 hybrid seed, but the germination rate was over 75% for the lot. Alot of it depends on how well it was processed in year one and how it has been stored since. If you have no luck with the first few, take some down to a professional greenhouse, tell them about the unique seed and ask for a squirt of gibberellic acid. That'll get them going when nothing else will. You may end up with your own heirloom. Most have a story similar to yours. The Fanatic. I'd grow 'em. :)
So there is a chance they will not grow or they will not produce fruit?
I wouldn't expect more than ten percent of 14 year old seed to germinate. It's possible that none will, or you could do better. It's just a rule of thumb. Should you get a plant up and healthy, it will produce the same fruit as grandpa ate as long as the plant is an open pollinated/heirloom. Most saved seed is. Open pollinated means the seed will produce an identical plant as the one from which it came. Heirlooms are open pollinated plants with some historical interest or other value. Hybrid seeds, like from a Better Boy, will not produce a Better Boy. If the Red German is a late season plant, I would grow it in a greenhouse or wait until next Feb/March to start the seed. If it's unknown, I'd save most for next year and experiment very little this year. It's late for starting late bloomers. If it has a 90 day season, not including a week or so to germinate and six weeks weeks to develop, he'll need almost to mid October to ripen (without cold weather). Some heirlooms take over 100 days.
I planted about 10 seeds. I probably have 50 more. So, if I get one to germinate can I just harvest some seeds out of one of the tomatoes for years to come?
You could and you might get decent results but that's not the preferable approach. You want to grow a few plants and harvest seeds from more than one of the best of them every year. This ensures a small degree of genetic diversity which leads to a stronger strain. Hopefully the seeds you have likewise came from a few different plants. If not that's fine. You just start the diversity process yourself. If you only get one plant this year and use an accelerated method to ripen one tomato (doable), by all means save that seed. Saved seed should come from fully ripened fruit of the highest quality. It should also be lightly fermented and sterilized in a diluted bleach solution before drying for storage. Good instructions are easy to google. GLAbove Ditka311 is growing Cherokee Purple. A few years ago a seed saver noticed some of his came up brownish. They seemed a little sweeter, so he isolated that seed. Those are now Cherokee Chocolates, one of my favorites. I had a thick slice of one at lunch today. But I also have some looking deep purple (sort of going back to their roots), and I think I may isolate those. :thumbup:

 
I was looking for this thread ...Which tomatoe's do I want to plant? Im looking to make sauces, chili with them. Also consider canning some for future use
I know I am a little late here but I just saw this thread. I went with whatever the local nursery had the past two years. After reading up on gardenweb.com I went with a bunch of heirlooms this year. They are all seedlings at the moment but I have:Akers West VirginiaNeves Azorean RedRiesentraube (cherry)San Marzano Redorta (paste)Opalka (paste)Jersey Devil (paste)Giant BelgiumMariann's PeaceCherokee PurpleThis is a test year to see which ones I like best.
This is a good list for picking favorites, but once you go down the heirloom path the possibilities are endless. I think there's almost a thousand varieties available if you seek them (and a few thousand in existence globally). I'd suggest picking your single favorite from this list and moving on to ten other samples next year if you have the soil and talent to grow heirlooms. They lack the disease resistance and hybrid vigor of... hybrids, so crop rotation is often necessary.
I don't know if i will try 10 new ones but I will definitely keep trying new ones. I lost a bunch of my seedlings since i did everything wrong. I was using my fish tank/lights in my basement and lost a bunch to damping off. Bought one of those Jiffy pellet planters and added some more. That thing worked great. Screw the fish tank next year. It's about ready to get these things into the ground and the peas I thought washed away a few weeks ago have decided they are ready now. No buds on the broccoli plants but they are big. Lettuce not far off. I also have California Wonder seedlings, serranos, guajillos, and mesillas ready to go. I love this time of year.
 
Earthtrainers. He uses two containers to make one self watering grow box. My modification does the same thing, but it doesn't destroy one container by cutting it in half and wedging it into the bottom of the other container. I just cut two wick holes out of the bottom of one, attach two pond filter baskets to the holes, and set that inside the other container. This gives double the space for soil and water capacity, and doesn't completely destroy any containers. I'll post more detailed plans if someone wants them. A 32 gallon grow container costs $25 to build. It's getting pretty late to start though.
I'd be interested in that. One could definitely put some later growing crops in one.
The stuff you need is in bold. The instructions are in green below, if you want to skip right to them.I may not have accounted for every possible issue with these things, but they are performing nicely so far. The above mention of mold made me think that could be an issue with young plants barely using the water, which is sitting in the bottom now going on two weeks. The $25 does not include soil, and you can accessorize with after market products as much as you want. Mine are in the Mojave so they are wrapped in reflective windshield protectors to keep the soil from overheating. I'm thinking of rigging a toilet float in the reservoirs so they automatically refill to three inches.

The basic grow box requires the following items to construct:

Two containers, 30-32 gallons preferable.

Something like these basic ones is fine. Rubbermaid costs more but supposedly has better UV protection. Which didn't matter to me because I wrapped mine for extreme heat conditions.

I bought 12 32g units @ 8.99 ea @ Kmart to make six grow boxes.

Two 8 or 9 inch pond filter baskets (plant baskets)

Home Depot had these for 1.99 each.

I used the square 9 inchers, but the smaller ones would be fine. I was a little over concerned about water usage in the desert and these baskets provide the space/size of the reservoir. So I went bigger.

A drill.

I used a cordless hammer drill and a wood screw for the bit.

A way to cut the plastic.

I used a circular saw, carefully. A strong carpet razor cuts through with two passes, score it deeply once then got over it and you're through with a little tapping.

8 plastic ties or some heavy gauge galvanized wire.

I used wire because it was on hand. The Earthtrainer instructions use plastic ties. You can get a package of 20 8" ties that will do the job for 2.99 at Ace.

You're at $24.95 before tax. :confused:

And that's all you need.

I bought the 12 containers planning on following the Earthtrainer pdf instructions. I cut off the bottom portion of the first container (a hassle) as instructed and stared at the whole project for about an hour with my little wheels spinning. I've grown hydroponically for a decade, never in containers like this but with similar concepts, and I had issues with those instructions. I was also feeling a little lazy and unhappy with the fit of my particular containers. They are all shaped a little differently and mine did not do what his did when I inverted and wedged the cut off bottom into the other container. So I put the cut up one to a different job (growing exotic mushrooms in donkey dung) and got a replacement for hopefully a better, much simpler idea. I'll explain why I think so after the instructions.

Anyone (especially you Earthbox people) -- feel free to question and troubleshoot these if you're following along and see an issue.

Instructions:

Inner Container

The bottoms of my containers were exactly 24" long and 13" wide. With a crayon I divided the bottoms into two 12X13 halves. I then drew 3.5" squares in the center of each half and cut them out. The exact math will differ per container sizes, but it's simple enough to figure out. These holes are for wicking moisture from the reservoir to the soil. So...

You have to attach a basket to each hole on the outside bottom of the container. The container should stand raised and level on the attached baskets. Centering each basket over a hole, drill four holes in each corner through the basket edge and through the bottom of the container. I taped the baskets centered to the bottom holes to keep things lined up as I drilled the mounting holes.

Since I used wire run through the holes and twist tightened, I drilled the holes in opposing corners and used one long wire for each basket, fed up through one hole down through the next until they met at the first hole -- tightened it up and snipped the ends. This was fast, simple and really strong when tested. So I drilled a total of 8 holes, four per basket.

If using plastic ties, you drill two holes in each corner an inch or so apart and cinch tighten four ties to each basket. That's sixteen total holes, 8 per basket. It's more work and probably not as strong.

The inner container is now complete. It will be set inside the outer container.

Outer Container

Real easy. My wick baskets are 6" tall. You want a pocket of air between the water level and the soil. So decide where you're going to add water to the outer container (the rim is exposed from the inner container being lifted so you can water where you please all the way around). Measure 4" from the bottom below the fill site and drill a hole. You could just drill a small hole, but I drilled a half inch one that I can close with wine cork. When you add water it will drain out of this hole when "full" thereby providing a two inch pocket of air.

The outer container is now complete.

Set the inner container inside it. The grow box is complete and only needs sunshine, the potting soil, mulch, and plants of your choice, and water.

Some pros to the modification:

Really quick and easy to construct.

As mentioned, cleaned up, baskets removed and with a cardboard liner in the bottom of the inner containers, all containers can be taken down and stacked in storage or used as actual storage containers if wanted, so save the lids.

If you put a flashlight on most of these type of containers, you'll see some light get through. This is bad for things like algae and mold and some other nasty possibilities. Stack one container on top of the other and hit it with the same light and none gets through. So my method blocks more light than the Earthtrainer method. It's not perfect as the reservoir has only one wall, but it is improved, and mine are blacked out by the wrap I mentioned.

Earthtrainers and Earthboxes both hold about 14 gallons of soil, and about 3 gallons of water. My modification allows for six gallons of water, double the reservoir space, a bigger air gap (more oxygen to the roots) and 32 gallons, more than double the space for soil. Professional growers will tell you anything under 10 gallons per normal tomato plant will stunt the plants and lead to root rot destroying late season yield. The other two have 7 gallons each for two tomatoes, mine has 16 each, allowing for much healthier plants. I could and am growing three heirlooms in one container having just over 10 gallons of root space per plant. One common complaint in one forum on topic is how often they need watering.

These haven't used their initial 6 gallons of water in two weeks time. The tomatoes are happy, the soil staying evenly moist through very hot dry days. I used a homemade potting mix that is mostly sterilized leaf compost (60%), some bark (15%), perlite (15%) and a heathy dose of fully composted sterilized horse manure (10%). I also sprinkled a little time release fertilizer on the top and worked it in the top two inches.

As an experiment, on two of them I laid landscape fabric deep inside the inner containers just over the top of the compost filled baskets to prevent roots from getting into them. On two others I wrapped the fabric around the outside of the baskets to keep compost particles from getting into the reservoir. On one I did both; on another I just filled the baskets with potting soil along with the containers. They all seem the same so far.

My intention was to mimic a successful desert test garden and use reflective mulch, but the way these things are conserving water, so far, no mulch. I may drill drain holes in the very bottom to empty the reservoir. That water has to be pretty stinky by now. I just haven't decided if it's necessary and if the cork method is safe or how to seal them while put together.

Another feature is that it is possible early in the season to lift the inner container out of the outer container and drain everything. My guess is that sucker weighed about 120, so prepare to hoist. But this could come in handy for a variety of reason other than just draining. The oxygen charge alone should be great for the young plants.

I'm tired. GL
Did you drill holes in the bottom of the upper/container like the did in the Earthtainers?
 
Chaos Commish said:
You could and you might get decent results but that's not the preferable approach. You want to grow a few plants and harvest seeds from more than one of the best of them every year. This ensures a small degree of genetic diversity which leads to a stronger strain. Hopefully the seeds you have likewise came from a few different plants. If not that's fine. You just start the diversity process yourself. If you only get one plant this year and use an accelerated method to ripen one tomato (doable), by all means save that seed. Saved seed should come from fully ripened fruit of the highest quality. It should also be lightly fermented and sterilized in a diluted bleach solution before drying for storage. Good instructions are easy to google. GL
The plan is that if I get more than one plant that a few relatives will take the rest off my hands. I might keep a couple at my place but I really don't have the room for more than 2. And last year I harvested the last of my fruit in mid to late October so if these things grow I am confident I can get some fruit prior to the first frost. I will bump this thread should I get some fruit. If not I will go to nursery early next year and look for that chemical you mentioned earlier.

Oh and props to CC. Brutha knows his shiznit about the plants!!! :angry:

 
Men-in-Cleats said:
Earthtrainers. He uses two containers to make one self watering grow box. My modification does the same thing, but it doesn't destroy one container by cutting it in half and wedging it into the bottom of the other container. I just cut two wick holes out of the bottom of one, attach two pond filter baskets to the holes, and set that inside the other container. This gives double the space for soil and water capacity, and doesn't completely destroy any containers. I'll post more detailed plans if someone wants them. A 32 gallon grow container costs $25 to build. It's getting pretty late to start though.
I'd be interested in that. One could definitely put some later growing crops in one.
The stuff you need is in bold. The instructions are in green below, if you want to skip right to them.
Did you drill holes in the bottom of the upper/container like the did in the Earthtainers?
Yes, unless I misunderstand the question. Two holes for two attached wick baskets that also serve as legs to hold the inner container up inside the outer container and create space for the reservoir. Simple design. Earthtrainer wanted me to cut a container in half with one hole in it that had a wick basket attached on the inside. Then invert that and wedge it into the other container (cutting slits in the corners bla bla) and do some more gymnastics for the seal, drain and irrigation. Little of it seemed necessary to me. My plants are putting on two inches a day right now. I bet I can build six of mine before someone else can finish one Earthtrainer and mine have more capacity but the same footprint. I could be missing something. :hey:

 
Men-in-Cleats said:
Earthtrainers. He uses two containers to make one self watering grow box. My modification does the same thing, but it doesn't destroy one container by cutting it in half and wedging it into the bottom of the other container. I just cut two wick holes out of the bottom of one, attach two pond filter baskets to the holes, and set that inside the other container. This gives double the space for soil and water capacity, and doesn't completely destroy any containers. I'll post more detailed plans if someone wants them. A 32 gallon grow container costs $25 to build. It's getting pretty late to start though.
I'd be interested in that. One could definitely put some later growing crops in one.
The stuff you need is in bold. The instructions are in green below, if you want to skip right to them.
Did you drill holes in the bottom of the upper/container like the did in the Earthtainers?
Yes, unless I misunderstand the question. Two holes for two attached wick baskets that also serve as legs to hold the inner container up inside the outer container and create space for the reservoir. Simple design. Earthtrainer wanted me to cut a container in half with one hole in it that had a wick basket attached on the inside. Then invert that and wedge it into the other container (cutting slits in the corners bla bla) and do some more gymnastics for the seal, drain and irrigation. Little of it seemed necessary to me. My plants are putting on two inches a day right now. I bet I can build six of mine before someone else can finish one Earthtrainer and mine have more capacity but the same footprint. I could be missing something. :thumbup:
No, I know you cut the hole at the wicker baskets. The Earthtainer had a whole bunch of small holes across the rest of the bottom and then covered the bottom with landscape fabric. I assume this was so air could work its way up into the soil from the airgap. You didn't say anything about adding those small holes. It also sounds like you didn't build the tomato cage assembly that they did either. I assume you just pushed them down into the soil after it was filled instead or had a trellis.
 
No, I know you cut the hole at the wicker baskets. The Earthtainer had a whole bunch of small holes across the rest of the bottom and then covered the bottom with landscape fabric. I assume this was so air could work its way up into the soil from the airgap. You didn't say anything about adding those small holes. It also sounds like you didn't build the tomato cage assembly that they did either. I assume you just pushed them down into the soil after it was filled instead or had a trellis.
Good catch. I did not do that. I figured with two large baskets instead of one small one there would be no oxygen issues. 8 2 inch by 9 inch sides of the baskets are exposed to air as the moisture rises. That should do it. You could certainly drill those holes. I was admittedly a little lazy that day. Again, good catch. My method may run into structural integrity problems if the inner container bottom is further weakened. I would probably drill a few holes if I did them over, but not many and I'd put some thought into stresses and possible cracks between weakspots before placing them.
 
No, I know you cut the hole at the wicker baskets. The Earthtainer had a whole bunch of small holes across the rest of the bottom and then covered the bottom with landscape fabric. I assume this was so air could work its way up into the soil from the airgap. You didn't say anything about adding those small holes. It also sounds like you didn't build the tomato cage assembly that they did either. I assume you just pushed them down into the soil after it was filled instead or had a trellis.
Good catch. I did not do that. I figured with two large baskets instead of one small one there would be no oxygen issues. 8 2 inch by 9 inch sides of the baskets are exposed to air as the moisture rises. That should do it. You could certainly drill those holes. I was admittedly a little lazy that day. Again, good catch. My method may run into structural integrity problems if the inner container bottom is further weakened. I would probably drill a few holes if I did them over, but not many and I'd put some thought into stresses and possible cracks between weakspots before placing them.
The ET site also specifically noted to use to small wicking basket, otherwise the soil would remain too damp- make no holes will offset that?
 
No, I know you cut the hole at the wicker baskets. The Earthtainer had a whole bunch of small holes across the rest of the bottom and then covered the bottom with landscape fabric. I assume this was so air could work its way up into the soil from the airgap. You didn't say anything about adding those small holes. It also sounds like you didn't build the tomato cage assembly that they did either. I assume you just pushed them down into the soil after it was filled instead or had a trellis.
Good catch. I did not do that. I figured with two large baskets instead of one small one there would be no oxygen issues. 8 2 inch by 9 inch sides of the baskets are exposed to air as the moisture rises. That should do it. You could certainly drill those holes. I was admittedly a little lazy that day. Again, good catch. My method may run into structural integrity problems if the inner container bottom is further weakened. I would probably drill a few holes if I did them over, but not many and I'd put some thought into stresses and possible cracks between weakspots before placing them.
The ET site also specifically noted to use to small wicking basket, otherwise the soil would remain too damp- make no holes will offset that?
No. The little holes actually help the soil drain and transpire.So far they seem perfectly moist and as mentioned they are not using much water at all. If your suggestion is correct, it was pure dumb luck on my part. I'm glad you guys are paying attention. These went out to the blazing desert where my BiL is monitoring things and reporting semi-daily. I'll get out there this weekend to see them. I'm sure my set up can be improved. I am not sure it will succeed, but I suspect it will considering what I have seen so far. Also note that these are in 100 degree very dry weather, so maybe that extra moisture is needed, but that doesn't explain the first fill up still lingering. These things are supposed to be great for conserving water. :excited:
 
No, I know you cut the hole at the wicker baskets. The Earthtainer had a whole bunch of small holes across the rest of the bottom and then covered the bottom with landscape fabric. I assume this was so air could work its way up into the soil from the airgap. You didn't say anything about adding those small holes. It also sounds like you didn't build the tomato cage assembly that they did either. I assume you just pushed them down into the soil after it was filled instead or had a trellis.
Good catch. I did not do that. I figured with two large baskets instead of one small one there would be no oxygen issues. 8 2 inch by 9 inch sides of the baskets are exposed to air as the moisture rises. That should do it. You could certainly drill those holes. I was admittedly a little lazy that day. Again, good catch. My method may run into structural integrity problems if the inner container bottom is further weakened. I would probably drill a few holes if I did them over, but not many and I'd put some thought into stresses and possible cracks between weakspots before placing them.
The ET site also specifically noted to use to small wicking basket, otherwise the soil would remain too damp- make no holes will offset that?
It shouldn't make a difference I would think. If there is space for water it will wick into that space but if the soil is saturated it won't wick up any more water.
 
No, I know you cut the hole at the wicker baskets. The Earthtainer had a whole bunch of small holes across the rest of the bottom and then covered the bottom with landscape fabric. I assume this was so air could work its way up into the soil from the airgap. You didn't say anything about adding those small holes. It also sounds like you didn't build the tomato cage assembly that they did either. I assume you just pushed them down into the soil after it was filled instead or had a trellis.
Good catch. I did not do that. I figured with two large baskets instead of one small one there would be no oxygen issues. 8 2 inch by 9 inch sides of the baskets are exposed to air as the moisture rises. That should do it. You could certainly drill those holes. I was admittedly a little lazy that day. Again, good catch. My method may run into structural integrity problems if the inner container bottom is further weakened. I would probably drill a few holes if I did them over, but not many and I'd put some thought into stresses and possible cracks between weakspots before placing them.
The ET site also specifically noted to use to small wicking basket, otherwise the soil would remain too damp- make no holes will offset that?
It shouldn't make a difference I would think. If there is space for water it will wick into that space but if the soil is saturated it won't wick up any more water.
I took them apart and ran into an issue I thought the reflective wrap would prevent. Mosquitoes in the reservoir. Lots of them. They swarmed when I lifted the inner containers out. Some lady in some forum has frogs in hers. I bet they eat mosquitoes. Frogs might be kind of fun, but mosquitoes aren't, so seal the gap between containers and fashion something for the fill site. I taped a landscape fabric curtain around them, slightly tucked in to seal the edge, but laying over the outer container and hanging loose. It was quick and should work fine. The hose (which is barely needed) can slide between the opening where the ends meet. I cut the ends to overlap by six inches to be safe. The grow boxes are working beautifully otherwise. There was still a couple of inches of water in the reservoirs, but the soil was perfectly moist for growing, not saturated, not too dry. I did something by accident that may have something to do with why they are working. I mounded soil around the plants about two inches high, creating lower spaces between them. Those low spots are wet on the surface and this is where the water is evaporating. The soil around the plants is dry about an inch deep. They like that (it's healthy) and there's plenty of moisture for the roots to seek elsewhere. With an even layer of mulch this would be unnoticed. Sealed with plastic mulch later like an earthbox won't make a difference. At that point you're hoping the plants use all the water and none evaporates.
 
An offer:

A rule of thumb I try to stick with (since burying the bodies ten years ago) is to not get into my personal or professional life much online. But as E Street Brat guessed, I do have a side business growing tomatoes, and it is probably going to expand in a big way in the next few years. I've had a contract with a wholesaler for a particular tomato (no big deal, tasteless yellow paste type) since 04. That contract has allowed me to grow and sell some other varieties that catch a better price. I live a half hour from the greenhouses, one costly employee and one minimum wager do the real work. Bla bla, it's been growing steadily, threatening to make a real profit, and I have big ideas for expansion (in my retirement) that I cannot really afford but I'm moving forward anyway.

Here's the thought. I'm seeking my own hybrid. Something that will perform beautifully in hot conditions that's unique (and good). I don't have to succeed in the search because there's dozens of worthy varieties readily available. Nonetheless, I have the time to do this. This is both a passion and a past time for me, so I'd like to make some of you an offer for you to grow a tomato that perhaps has never been tried before. You can even pick the hybrid (limited to crossing types that I am growing). Sound like fun?

Everything I am growing (for this purpose) has one or more of three traits. It is known to be heat tolerant, it is from a strain believed to be heat tolerant, or it is very early to ripen. Early works in the desert because you can bring in a crop by July 1, destroy those plants, and get a second fall crop if you do it right. You can grow all of these anywhere, so don't worry about that.

I'm crossing 20 some varieties with Super Sioux, which is as far as I can tell the best heirloom for my conditions. God only knows what I'll get, which is part of the fun. Some of these will fail, I'm sure. Everything is in bloom right now, and who knows maybe some combo of those 20 not including Super Sioux will come out awesome. I was planning on trying a few, but I cannot decide which, so I'll let a few of you do that. And your efforts may help me learn something about a combo. Who knows?

If interested, I ask a couple things. I'm going to spend a few hours on your hybrid, so unless you die or worse, I want you to be certain you can give this seed an honest effort next spring and be around to report your results. I will be sending you some seed and saving some of the same for here in my various conditions. I doubt 12 of you are IN, but I am limiting this to a dozen combos. I'm reserving one for siffoin, who I suspect will want to give this a try, so it's fcfs for 11 of you. I'll ask for your mailing information when the seed is ready. I don't want it now. I'm keeping track of too many things already.

I'll list the 20 varieties you can cross with links about them later this weekend when I have the time.

Ugh. I think I have them memorized, so without links (do your own looking here and here):

I arranged these in order of my own interest and anticipated success:

Moskvich (a nice choice for any cross, imo)

Dona (excellent French market mater)

Carmello (similar but more productive than Dona)

Porter's Dark Cherry (ate six yesterday, saved 200 seeds)

Mule Team

Tropic

Amana Orange

Red Beefsteak (strong western strain, sort of unidentified)

Florida Pink (vigorous like a hybrid)

Great White

Goliath (not the nursery hybrid, an heirloom from the 1800s)

Pruden's Purple

Arkansas Traveler

Rose

Cherokee Chocolate

Cherokee Purple

Eva Purple Ball

Sudduth's Brandywine

Black Prince

Green Zebra

Delicious (world record size holder, early for a beast)

Yellow Pear (I'd hesitate, we sun dry them for a farmer's market vendor)

As a caveat, when I take apart a bloom to give it another's pollen, I need to see the fruit from that flower set to believe I have a successful cross. That doesn't always mean it's own pollen didn't do the job, nor does it mean that that fruit will mature viable seed. But it is fun to try and "we've" been successful more often than not. If I fail to get a cross, I'll send you some good seed from the plants anyway. That may alter your thinking on a combo.

Pick two. :loco:

 
I'm definitely just a novice in green thumbing, but i'd love to participate. I have a container garden going at the moment, but have decided to turn my side yard into a full garden.

If there are more qualified (which i'm sure there are) to fill your 12 spots, i would gladly step aside and just monitor your results.

I'd like to experiment with a purple and either the beefsteak or the pink.

I'll wait and see what kind of response you get.

Fun idea for us less experienced!!

 
I'm definitely just a novice in green thumbing, but i'd love to participate. I have a container garden going at the moment, but have decided to turn my side yard into a full garden.If there are more qualified (which i'm sure there are) to fill your 12 spots, i would gladly step aside and just monitor your results. I'd like to experiment with a purple and either the beefsteak or the pink.I'll wait and see what kind of response you get.Fun idea for us less experienced!!
If you're west of the coastal mountains then all you have to do is scatter the seed in a sunny spot and add water. If you're east of them, then I am real interested in your results. It will probably be hard to get 12 to do this, so you're in, thanks. Florida Pink and my strain of Red Beefsteak are excellent choices for half of a combo. They have big flowers that are easy to work with. So there's your female. Pruden's Purple is the best combo, a very similar plant to the others, but in fairness, the "least" purple of the purples - really not purple at all, but shades of pink. Pick two.
 

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