Mark Ingram (4 Viewers)

[shader]

That is my point it is a rare thing...and no one knows if any back will ever last that long. It is a lot of luck. Marshall Faulk had bad knees coming out of college but gutted out a HOF career. Most RB's that are elite have plenty of wear and tear coming into the league. What factors in is1) situation2) off-season discipline3) luck of not getting a bad injury/injuries

There is nothing about Ingram that suggests his body is better suited to last 7-8 years than most backs. He is coming off a knee injury that caused at least 2 teams to take him off of their board completely. Also, Marshall Faulk was an elite NFL player. Mark Ingram was not even an elite draft prospect. I think we should hold off that comparison, or the suggestion of Ingram being elite.

Part of the skill and art of playing dynasty FF is being able to watch guys and scout their probabilty of success at the next level. Mark Ingram has shown me he has what it takes to be an elite producer in the NFL.1) Played in a big time conference against elite talent and was a beast? Check.2) Drafted by an elite offense in need of a consistent chain mover? Check3) One of the best 0-10 yard times (which is a key metrix in a RB's success) Check.Mark Ingram is a first round pick. He is in a situation where RB;s are not valued as they once were. NFL teams are employing RBBC more and more every year. It is the latest fad. But if you can land that difference maker (Chris Johnson, ADP, MJD) you ride that horse for as long as you can. I have a feeling the Saints have found that horse.Could be wrong and Ingram is a different back than ADP, MJD and Chris Johnson (who I was touting long before everyone realized how amazing he is). Ingrm is more of a classic 5-7 yard guy but also will break nice chunk yargdage runs of 20 and 30 yards. And boy does he have a nose for the end zone. He makes natural beautiful cuts, let;s his hole develop...and bam hit's the hole with elite skill.Kid is going to be a star.

Good post. This is my point. Everything has lined up for him to absolutely dominate. It's what I expect to happen, barring injury.

 

[Go deep]

Ingram doesn't have many health flags. He injured his knee a bit early in his Junior season. Other than that? Nothing. He only missed a couple games too.Adrian Peterson had FAR MORE health concerns than Ingram coming into the league.That being said, I'm not going to get further into a discussion about probabilities of player's getting injured. Unless someone can predict the future, it's a waste of time.

He could have arthritis. That is a pretty big flag.

Stuff like this gets said all the time prior to the draft. He hurt his knee in a practice, had a minor scope, and missed two inconsequential games and played the rest of the year without incident. It's like this is the first time some of you have heard of an arthroscope and that the outcome is like he just had a knee replacement. Too much is being made of this whole thing. RBs get injured, it's just part of the deal. Ingram's the real deal and in a great situation. He'll never be used the way Emmitt was...he's not going to get 370 carries in a Sean Payton offense. But, 270-300 is about right, 1200-1300 yards/season, 10-15 TDs. Starting day one.

2 teams took him off their board and plenty of teams in need of a RB passed on him. As a fan of his, I hope he has a long healthy career. But lets not pretend that there aren't flags.

Which two teams took him off their boards?

"I've had two teams tell me the knee is very bad," said Lombardi. "He won't be on their boards. These are teams that need running backs."-Mike Lombardi

Need more proof than that. Heck, for all we know the Saints could have been one of those teams.Unless someone can prove that he has arthritis in his knees, I'll disregard it as pre-draft junk.

Agreed, sounds like something someone who wanted Ingram to slip would say. I wouldnt be surprised if the Saints were one of the teams that said that.

 

[shader]

That is my point it is a rare thing...and no one knows if any back will ever last that long. It is a lot of luck. Marshall Faulk had bad knees coming out of college but gutted out a HOF career. Most RB's that are elite have plenty of wear and tear coming into the league. What factors in is1) situation2) off-season discipline3) luck of not getting a bad injury/injuries

There is nothing about Ingram that suggests his body is better suited to last 7-8 years than most backs. He is coming off a knee injury that caused at least 2 teams to take him off of their board completely. Also, Marshall Faulk was an elite NFL player. Mark Ingram was not even an elite draft prospect. I think we should hold off that comparison, or the suggestion of Ingram being elite.

Part of the skill and art of playing dynasty FF is being able to watch guys and scout their probabilty of success at the next level. Mark Ingram has shown me he has what it takes to be an elite producer in the NFL.1) Played in a big time conference against elite talent and was a beast? Check.2) Drafted by an elite offense in need of a consistent chain mover? Check3) One of the best 0-10 yard times (which is a key metrix in a RB's success) Check.Mark Ingram is a first round pick. He is in a situation where RB;s are not valued as they once were. NFL teams are employing RBBC more and more every year. It is the latest fad. But if you can land that difference maker (Chris Johnson, ADP, MJD) you ride that horse for as long as you can. I have a feeling the Saints have found that horse.Could be wrong and Ingram is a different back than ADP, MJD and Chris Johnson (who I was touting long before everyone realized how amazing he is). Ingrm is more of a classic 5-7 yard guy but also will break nice chunk yargdage runs of 20 and 30 yards. And boy does he have a nose for the end zone. He makes natural beautiful cuts, let;s his hole develop...and bam hit's the hole with elite skill.Kid is going to be a star.

My point is this and only this: There is no logic, in my opinion, in projecting Ingram to the HOF. If you think it is logical - great. NFL teams with millions at their disposal draft busts on a regular basis. I don't personally view anyone as a sure thing before they produce at an NFL level. I especially don't project HOF careers before a player has a single NFL practice. If you do, that is fine. We won't know if you are right or wrong for some time.

I don't call it hyperbole. Unless he gets injured, it's my strong prediction. I think he'll absolutely terrorize the league as long as he stays healthy. HOF if healthy is my prediction. If his body breaks down in 4 years, I'll be wrong. If he averages 4 yards per carry and stays mired in RBBC's his whole career, I'll eat my crow.Heck, for all I know he could dominate the next two years, then Brees could retire and he could be stuck with a crappy QB for the subsequent 6 years.But my point is that right now, I see him in the perfect situation to have a stellar career, and since I've always thought he's a carbon copy of Emmitt Smith (THUS FAR), I have no problem projecting him to have an Emmitt-like career if healthy.

 

[Gopher State]

Nothing personal/no offense meant. To say a RB that hasn't played in the NFL yet will be HOF is just foolish.

very

 

[Concept Coop]

I don't call it hyperbole. I have no problem projecting him to have an Emmitt-like career if healthy.

These two statements don't add up. You do realize that Emmitt is the NFL's all time leading rusher, right? Yards and TD? Just so we can be clear: Are you predicting Ingram will be #1 or #2 on the list when he retires?

 

[Go deep]

Nothing personal/no offense meant. To say a RB that hasn't played in the NFL yet will be HOF is just foolish.

very

Wasnt very foolish for the guys who said Barry Sanders, Emmit Smith, Ladanian Tomlinson, etc would be in the HOF before they ever played a down in the NFL.

 

[Concept Coop]

Nothing personal/no offense meant. To say a RB that hasn't played in the NFL yet will be HOF is just foolish.

very

Wasnt very foolish for the guys who said Barry Sanders, Emmit Smith, Ladanian Tomlinson, etc would be in the HOF before they ever played a down in the NFL.

Yes it was. Equally lucky and foolish. For every Emmitt, Barry, and LT, there is a Kevin Jones, Blair Thomas, Curtis Enis...and a lot more with average, solid, good, and even great careers; but not HOF careers.

 

[Go deep]

Nothing personal/no offense meant. To say a RB that hasn't played in the NFL yet will be HOF is just foolish.

very

Wasnt very foolish for the guys who said Barry Sanders, Emmit Smith, Ladanian Tomlinson, etc would be in the HOF before they ever played a down in the NFL.

Yes it was. Equally lucky and foolish. For every Emmitt, Barry, and LT, there is a Kevin Jones, Blair Thomas, Curtis Enis...and a lot more with average, solid, good, and even great careers; but not HOF careers.

And some guys are better than other at telling those guys apart, that doesnt make them foolish, it makes them smarter. Can you accurately predict which guys are going to be HOF'ers, of course not, but whats woring with trying to? You can no more predict a future HOF'er than you can which RB is going to finish #1 in fanatsy points every year, but we will discuss that in 1000 different threads this year. If it is all just foolishly lucky, why do we even bother discussing it?

 

[Concept Coop]

And some guys are better than other at telling those guys apart, that doesnt make them foolish, it makes them smarter. Can you accurately predict which guys are going to be HOF'ers, of course not, but whats woring with trying to? You can no more predict a future HOF'er than you can which RB is going to finish #1 in fanatsy points every year, but we will discuss that in 1000 different threads this year. If it is all just foolishly lucky, why do we even bother discussing it?

Do you really not see the difference between pridicting a player that has never set foot on an NFL field (to play for an NFL team) to the HOF and trying to predict stats for a single NFL season? For one, most of the players we project have played and produced stats that we can look at.

 

[Go deep]

And some guys are better than other at telling those guys apart, that doesnt make them foolish, it makes them smarter. Can you accurately predict which guys are going to be HOF'ers, of course not, but whats woring with trying to? You can no more predict a future HOF'er than you can which RB is going to finish #1 in fanatsy points every year, but we will discuss that in 1000 different threads this year. If it is all just foolishly lucky, why do we even bother discussing it?

Do you really not see the difference between pridicting a player that has never set foot on an NFL field (to play for an NFL team) to the HOF and trying to predict stats for a single NFL season? For one, most of the players we project have played and produced stats that we can look at.

What has a better chance of happening, Ingram making it to the HOF, or Lesean Mccoy being the #1 fantasy back over the next 5 years? Maybe it is Mccoy, but point being they are both VERY difficult to predict, but why is one foolish, but the other something we have discussed here more times than I can count?

 

[Donnybrook]

So, realistically, only the Dolphins, Pats, Skins, and Colts would arguably had a need at RB...but honestly had either much bigger holes to fill or, in the case of Belichick, it's just not part of the philosophy.

The Giants could have used him as well, IMO.The Pats drafted Marony in the 1st round, and used their 2nd and 3rd on two RBs. If they thought he provided them value at that spot, the would have taken him.

When the Pats made that trade I wonder for a second whether that was a sign that lockout would last the entire season ie Belichick knows things. I later dismissed the notion thinking that the Patriots have used that stategy every year prior and it usually pays off for them.

 

[Donnybrook]

Why settle for HoF? The NFL needs to establish a Hall of Ingram!! I mean, never mind he's never played a down in the NFL and the list of can't miss guys who have flopped is as long as my arm. I'm on board! Ugh.

I have been to the future. I believe the Hall of Ingram is the tiny place next to the Hall of Richardson. Both are dwarfed by the gigantic hall of Peterson.

 

[Todem]

That is my point it is a rare thing...and no one knows if any back will ever last that long. It is a lot of luck. Marshall Faulk had bad knees coming out of college but gutted out a HOF career. Most RB's that are elite have plenty of wear and tear coming into the league. What factors in is1) situation2) off-season discipline3) luck of not getting a bad injury/injuries

There is nothing about Ingram that suggests his body is better suited to last 7-8 years than most backs. He is coming off a knee injury that caused at least 2 teams to take him off of their board completely. Also, Marshall Faulk was an elite NFL player. Mark Ingram was not even an elite draft prospect. I think we should hold off that comparison, or the suggestion of Ingram being elite.

Part of the skill and art of playing dynasty FF is being able to watch guys and scout their probabilty of success at the next level. Mark Ingram has shown me he has what it takes to be an elite producer in the NFL.1) Played in a big time conference against elite talent and was a beast? Check.2) Drafted by an elite offense in need of a consistent chain mover? Check3) One of the best 0-10 yard times (which is a key metrix in a RB's success) Check.Mark Ingram is a first round pick. He is in a situation where RB;s are not valued as they once were. NFL teams are employing RBBC more and more every year. It is the latest fad. But if you can land that difference maker (Chris Johnson, ADP, MJD) you ride that horse for as long as you can. I have a feeling the Saints have found that horse.Could be wrong and Ingram is a different back than ADP, MJD and Chris Johnson (who I was touting long before everyone realized how amazing he is). Ingrm is more of a classic 5-7 yard guy but also will break nice chunk yargdage runs of 20 and 30 yards. And boy does he have a nose for the end zone. He makes natural beautiful cuts, let;s his hole develop...and bam hit's the hole with elite skill.Kid is going to be a star.

My point is this and only this: There is no logic, in my opinion, in projecting Ingram to the HOF. If you think it is logical - great. NFL teams with millions at their disposal draft busts on a regular basis. I don't personally view anyone as a sure thing before they produce at an NFL level. I especially don't project HOF careers before a player has a single NFL practice. If you do, that is fine. We won't know if you are right or wrong for some time.

Oh I am not going to tout HOF(yet)...but a very productive NFL back...yes I think he has all the skills to make it. I agree that you know nothing till they play at this level. But it's fun to predict.

 

[moderated]

Can people please stop saying Ingram had some amazing 10 yard split. It was good but 1.53 isn't even in the top 25 of the past 5 years.

Stop regurgitating mis-information.

 

[N Zone]

I am writing this to be on record that I agree with everything shader sees in Ingram.

 

[Football Jones]

Can people please stop saying Ingram had some amazing 10 yard split. It was good but 1.53 isn't even in the top 25 of the past 5 years.Stop regurgitating mis-information.

I think when people mention Ingram's 10-yard split, it's not necessarily about how his time compares to other players. It was an excellent time for a power runner, though, which is essentially what Ingram is. I believe that's what impresses people. The 40 is the most overrated tool in scouting. Quickness is much more important than speed at virtually every position, & while most Combine tests are vastly overhyped, the 10-yard split is a good indicator of a player's quickness.When you combine Ingram's power, quickness, vision, & instincts, it's the makings of a premier RB.

 

[ROYALWITCHEESE]

When Ingram got selected by the Saints, he punched a ticket to the hall of fame, assuming he stays healthy, which obviously is something none of us can predict.

Ingram has been compared to Emmitt Smith many times, and the reason is that they are carbon copies of each other. They both possess excellent vision, dole out punishment, and have tremendous goalline ability. Ingram makes moves that are amazing for a man his size. He has unbelievable hips, wide shoulders and quick feet. He's the prototypical RB.

Any thought of him splitting carries should only concern re-draft people, as many RB's split carries early on, including Peterson, Chris Johnson, etc.

Emmitt Smith always had critics. They claimed that if he didn't play on Dallas, he wouldn't have been as good as he is. They might have been right. Emmitt landed in the perfect situation. Put him on a bad offense with a poor line, and he could have been a 3.5 ypc back. He certainly would never have approached the numbers he had in Dallas on 90% of the other franchises in his career.

So for me, the big question pre-draft with Ingram was where he would land. He is a similar runner. When teams stood in the box and sold out against the run vs Bama this year, Ingram (and Richardson for that matter) struggled. So if Ingram became the focal point of a bad team, he could waste away on a bad offense, getting 1100 yard 8 td seasons for 4-5 years.

Instead he goes to an offense with a top 4 QB, a bevy of offensive options in the passing game, an offensive line that allows undrafted free agents to average 5 ypc and also-rans like Julius Jones to come in and perform well when his career was basically over.

This is what you call a perfect situation. Teams cannot focus on Ingram. He will shred defenses. Once he's past the D-line, he will make linebackers miss, punish safeties and be the physical force that will give the Saints the best offense in the NFL. If teams decide to focus on Ingram, Brees will flat out shred them.

If I'm in a dynasty startup right now, there are only 2 rb's I take ahead of Ingram. Chris Johnson and Adrian Peterson. And while some of you disagree now...you won't in 2012.

1500 yards, 15 td's are what Ingram will drop for the next 5 years. He may be more of a 1200 and 12 TD guy this year, depending on whether Payton decides to ease him in or not, and especially due to the lockout.

The only thing that keeps him from being a HOF RB in my opinion is health. Same thing with Peterson and Chris Johnson for that matter though. Neither are HOF material yet. But if they stay healthy for another 5-6 years, they will be.

The one thing we KNOW Emmitt had that we don't know about Ingram is durability. We won't know that for a long time. But if he stays durable, he will be enshrined in Canton in about 15 years.

Proto-typical RB's don't grow on trees.

He is not Emmitt Smith. He reminds people of him, but he is not. Emmitt is one of the best players ever at his position. Ingram is not even the prospect that Knowshon Moreno was two years ago.

Ingram is not even the prospect Ingram was one year ago.

 

[Concept Coop]

I sm writing this to be on record that I agree with everything shader sees in Ingram.

So, you are on the record for predicting an "Emmitt like career"? Can I get a total on that? 17,000 yards? 18,000?

 

[N Zone]

I sm writing this to be on record that I agree with everything shader sees in Ingram.

So, you are on the record for predicting an "Emmitt like career"? Can I get a total on that? 17,000 yards? 18,000?

No, not that. Just that he has a similar style and will be productive for a long time. He's not Emmitt and no one ever will be. Emmitt's my favorite player ever.

 

[Todem]

Can people please stop saying Ingram had some amazing 10 yard split. It was good but 1.53 isn't even in the top 25 of the past 5 years.Stop regurgitating mis-information.

Just watching him play the game rather than looking at times is really the key. Despite what his "time" was in the combine, on the field he has fantastic 0-10 skills.

 

[Todem]

Can people please stop saying Ingram had some amazing 10 yard split. It was good but 1.53 isn't even in the top 25 of the past 5 years.Stop regurgitating mis-information.

I think when people mention Ingram's 10-yard split, it's not necessarily about how his time compares to other players. It was an excellent time for a power runner, though, which is essentially what Ingram is. I believe that's what impresses people. The 40 is the most overrated tool in scouting. Quickness is much more important than speed at virtually every position, & while most Combine tests are vastly overhyped, the 10-yard split is a good indicator of a player's quickness.When you combine Ingram's power, quickness, vision, & instincts, it's the makings of a premier RB.

Exactly.

 

[shader]

Nothing personal/no offense meant. To say a RB that hasn't played in the NFL yet will be HOF is just foolish.

very

Wasnt very foolish for the guys who said Barry Sanders, Emmit Smith, Ladanian Tomlinson, etc would be in the HOF before they ever played a down in the NFL.

Yes it was. Equally lucky and foolish. For every Emmitt, Barry, and LT, there is a Kevin Jones, Blair Thomas, Curtis Enis...and a lot more with average, solid, good, and even great careers; but not HOF careers.

So it's foolish to predict great success for any player at all?

 

[shader]

I don't call it hyperbole. I have no problem projecting him to have an Emmitt-like career if healthy.

These two statements don't add up. You do realize that Emmitt is the NFL's all time leading rusher, right? Yards and TD? Just so we can be clear: Are you predicting Ingram will be #1 or #2 on the list when he retires?

You are an exhausting person to discuss things with. You take everything so literal.Me saying he will have an Emmitt-like career doesn't mean I expect him to mirror his stats exactly.Emmitt had a perfect situation and stayed healthy for virtually his entire career. Ingram has a very similar running style and has a great situation now. Whether that situation continues to exist or whether Ingram stays healthy are huge question marks.But if he stays healthy I expect him to be in the HOF. I think he's that good.

 

[Go deep]

I don't call it hyperbole.

I have no problem projecting him to have an Emmitt-like career if healthy.

These two statements don't add up. You do realize that Emmitt is the NFL's all time leading rusher, right? Yards and TD? Just so we can be clear: Are you predicting Ingram will be #1 or #2 on the list when he retires?

You are an exhausting person to discuss things with. You take everything so literal.

Me saying he will have an Emmitt-like career doesn't mean I expect him to mirror his stats exactly.

Emmitt had a perfect situation and stayed healthy for virtually his entire career.

Ingram has a very similar running style and has a great situation now. Whether that situation continues to exist or whether Ingram stays healthy are huge question marks.

But if he stays healthy I expect him to be in the HOF. I think he's that good.

I like Coop, he is a good active poster, but he has a tendency to take things to far and too literal..

Predicitng someone is going to the HOF is just another way of starting a bandwagon thread. Obviously nobody is betting even money that Igram will make the HOF. Sayng he is Emmitt like is exactly that, Emmitt like, not the exact same thing.

 

[Concept Coop]

I don't call it hyperbole. I have no problem projecting him to have an Emmitt-like career if healthy.

These two statements don't add up. You do realize that Emmitt is the NFL's all time leading rusher, right? Yards and TD? Just so we can be clear: Are you predicting Ingram will be #1 or #2 on the list when he retires?

You are an exhausting person to discuss things with. You take everything so literal.Me saying he will have an Emmitt-like career doesn't mean I expect him to mirror his stats exactly.Emmitt had a perfect situation and stayed healthy for virtually his entire career. Ingram has a very similar running style and has a great situation now. Whether that situation continues to exist or whether Ingram stays healthy are huge question marks.But if he stays healthy I expect him to be in the HOF. I think he's that good.

Surely you can see why using a term like "Emmitt like career" would lead one to think you are predicting Ingram to be an all-time great. Especially when you have already starting using the HOF tag. If you mean HOF literally, why would I assume you didn't mean Emmitt like career literally? If I was confused, I apologize. Last point I want to make: The situation he is in is not a great one. Emmitt had the greatest situation I ever remember a RB having for a career. The Saints are not even close to that, even if we ignore the fact that they pass the ball so much, even in the Redzone.So I guess I don't find any logic in suggesting a rookie will be a HOFer and have a career close the best (statistical) career ever.

 

[Concept Coop]

I sm writing this to be on record that I agree with everything shader sees in Ingram.

So, you are on the record for predicting an "Emmitt like career"? Can I get a total on that? 17,000 yards? 18,000?

No, not that. Just that he has a similar style and will be productive for a long time. He's not Emmitt and no one ever will be. Emmitt's my favorite player ever.

I like Ingram a lot too. I like him a lot more this time last year. I think he is a 1st round talent, in a league that does have many of those at the RB spot. In that regard, I agree with you and Shader. I just think the HOF/Emmitt Smith/7-8 top year thing is hyperbole.

 

[SayWhat?]

I don't call it hyperbole.

I have no problem projecting him to have an Emmitt-like career if healthy.

These two statements don't add up. You do realize that Emmitt is the NFL's all time leading rusher, right? Yards and TD? Just so we can be clear: Are you predicting Ingram will be #1 or #2 on the list when he retires?

You are an exhausting person to discuss things with. You take everything so literal.Me saying he will have an Emmitt-like career doesn't mean I expect him to mirror his stats exactly.

Emmitt had a perfect situation and stayed healthy for virtually his entire career.

Ingram has a very similar running style and has a great situation now. Whether that situation continues to exist or whether Ingram stays healthy are huge question marks.

But if he stays healthy I expect him to be in the HOF. I think he's that good.

Surely you can see why using a term like "Emmitt like career" would lead one to think you are predicting Ingram to be an all-time great. Especially when you have already starting using the HOF tag. If you mean HOF literally, why would I assume you didn't mean Emmitt like career literally? If I was confused, I apologize. Last point I want to make: The situation he is in is not a great one. Emmitt had the greatest situation I ever remember a RB having for a career. The Saints are not even close to that, even if we ignore the fact that they pass the ball so much, even in the Redzone.

So I guess I don't find any logic in suggesting a rookie will be a HOFer and have a career close the best (statistical) career ever.

I just find this statement baffling. What makes people think that the Saints organization isn't a near perfect situation for him to land in? Unless you think that Ingram won't get a majority of the RB touches (let's say greater than 65-70%), I don't see how this isn't a perfect fit for him? High powered offense? Check. Stud QB? Check. Dynamic passing game that won't allow defenses to key on the run? Check. Fantastic creativity in the offense that gets their RB's involved in the passing game in large quantities? Check. Lots of touchdowns to be had? Check. Literally, unless you think that a running back that the Saints traded a 1st/2nd for is going to be mired in an equal timeshare with the likes of any of Thomas, Bush, Ivory, etc, then what's not to like?

 

[Go deep]

I don't call it hyperbole.

I have no problem projecting him to have an Emmitt-like career if healthy.

These two statements don't add up. You do realize that Emmitt is the NFL's all time leading rusher, right? Yards and TD? Just so we can be clear: Are you predicting Ingram will be #1 or #2 on the list when he retires?

You are an exhausting person to discuss things with. You take everything so literal.Me saying he will have an Emmitt-like career doesn't mean I expect him to mirror his stats exactly.

Emmitt had a perfect situation and stayed healthy for virtually his entire career.

Ingram has a very similar running style and has a great situation now. Whether that situation continues to exist or whether Ingram stays healthy are huge question marks.

But if he stays healthy I expect him to be in the HOF. I think he's that good.

Surely you can see why using a term like "Emmitt like career" would lead one to think you are predicting Ingram to be an all-time great. Especially when you have already starting using the HOF tag. If you mean HOF literally, why would I assume you didn't mean Emmitt like career literally? If I was confused, I apologize. Last point I want to make: The situation he is in is not a great one. Emmitt had the greatest situation I ever remember a RB having for a career. The Saints are not even close to that, even if we ignore the fact that they pass the ball so much, even in the Redzone.

So I guess I don't find any logic in suggesting a rookie will be a HOFer and have a career close the best (statistical) career ever.

I just find this statement baffling. What makes people think that the Saints organization isn't a near perfect situation for him to land in? Unless you think that Ingram won't get a majority of the RB touches (let's say greater than 65-70%), I don't see how this isn't a perfect fit for him? High powered offense? Check. Stud QB? Check. Dynamic passing game that won't allow defenses to key on the run? Check. Fantastic creativity in the offense that gets their RB's involved in the passing game in large quantities? Check. Lots of touchdowns to be had? Check. Literally, unless you think that a running back that the Saints traded a 1st/2nd for is going to be mired in an equal timeshare with the likes of any of Thomas, Bush, Ivory, etc, then what's not to like?

Seems like you are just finding different ways to say the same things. I agree with the high powered offense that will score alot and uses the backs in the passing game. I also think the situation is very good, but par tof the problem could be that the Saints throw alot. Of course that could change a bit now that they have a good RB.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

I sm writing this to be on record that I agree with everything shader sees in Ingram.

So, you are on the record for predicting an "Emmitt like career"? Can I get a total on that? 17,000 yards? 18,000?

No, not that. Just that he has a similar style and will be productive for a long time. He's not Emmitt and no one ever will be. Emmitt's my favorite player ever.

I like Ingram a lot too. I like him a lot more this time last year. I think he is a 1st round talent, in a league that does have many of those at the RB spot. In that regard, I agree with you and Shader. I just think the HOF/Emmitt Smith/7-8 top year thing is hyperbole.

Maybe it was meant to be a little. Starting a topic "Ingram is going to be good imo" isn't exaclty an eye catcher. EIther way, it's not really that big of a deal.

 

[Concept Coop]

I just find this statement baffling. What makes people think that the Saints organization isn't a near perfect situation for him to land in? Unless you think that Ingram won't get a majority of the RB touches (let's say greater than 65-70%), I don't see how this isn't a perfect fit for him? High powered offense? Check. Stud QB? Check. Dynamic passing game that won't allow defenses to key on the run? Check. Fantastic creativity in the offense that gets their RB's involved in the passing game in large quantities? Check. Lots of touchdowns to be had? Check. Literally, unless you think that a running back that the Saints traded a 1st/2nd for is going to be mired in an equal timeshare with the likes of any of Thomas, Bush, Ivory, etc, then what's not to like?

High pass/run ratio? Check. High passing TD to Rushing TD ratio? Check. High percentage of carries going to other backs? Check. If you are in a PPR league, I think the Saints are a plus for him. Otherwise, I think it is neutral and would have much preferred the Dolphins.

 

[SayWhat?]

I just find this statement baffling. What makes people think that the Saints organization isn't a near perfect situation for him to land in? Unless you think that Ingram won't get a majority of the RB touches (let's say greater than 65-70%), I don't see how this isn't a perfect fit for him? High powered offense? Check. Stud QB? Check. Dynamic passing game that won't allow defenses to key on the run? Check. Fantastic creativity in the offense that gets their RB's involved in the passing game in large quantities? Check. Lots of touchdowns to be had? Check. Literally, unless you think that a running back that the Saints traded a 1st/2nd for is going to be mired in an equal timeshare with the likes of any of Thomas, Bush, Ivory, etc, then what's not to like?

High pass/run ratio? Check. High passing TD to Rushing TD ratio? Check. High percentage of carries going to other backs? Check. If you are in a PPR league, I think the Saints are a plus for him. Otherwise, I think it is neutral and would have much preferred the Dolphins.

2008Saints RB's - 371-1542-19 rushing, 120-936-9 receiving, 491-2478-28 totals

Miami RB's - 409-1748-15 rushing, 87-772-3 receiving, 496-2520-18 totals

2009

Saints RB's - 434-1984-19 rushing, 107-781-7 receiving, 541-2765-26 totals

Miami RB's - 455-2022-20 rushing, 66-594-4 receiving, 521-2616-24 totals

2010

Saints RB's - 351-1480-9 rushing, 111-650-2 receiving, 462-2130-11 total

Miami RB's - 389-1469-8 rushing, 74-535-3 receiving, 463-2004-11 total

For running backs in particular, what is it about Miami's situation that you would have much preferred to the Saints? The fact that Miami has run the ball an average of two running back carries more per game more than the Saints over the past three years? Or the 5 additional rushing yards per game? Or is it the fact that Miami had less rushing TD's than the Saints did over the past three years? It's clearly not because of the added benefit of receiving stats which makes Miami a much preferred destination. A high pass/run ratio and high passing TD/rushing TD ratio in a great offense is greater than a low pass/run ratio and low passing TD/rushing TD ratio for a crappy offense. Other than your fear that Ingram shares too much of the running back pie in New Orleans, what part of being a running back for the Saints isn't nearly ideal?

 

[Concept Coop]

I just find this statement baffling. What makes people think that the Saints organization isn't a near perfect situation for him to land in? Unless you think that Ingram won't get a majority of the RB touches (let's say greater than 65-70%), I don't see how this isn't a perfect fit for him? High powered offense? Check. Stud QB? Check. Dynamic passing game that won't allow defenses to key on the run? Check. Fantastic creativity in the offense that gets their RB's involved in the passing game in large quantities? Check. Lots of touchdowns to be had? Check. Literally, unless you think that a running back that the Saints traded a 1st/2nd for is going to be mired in an equal timeshare with the likes of any of Thomas, Bush, Ivory, etc, then what's not to like?

High pass/run ratio? Check. High passing TD to Rushing TD ratio? Check. High percentage of carries going to other backs? Check. If you are in a PPR league, I think the Saints are a plus for him. Otherwise, I think it is neutral and would have much preferred the Dolphins.

2008Saints RB's - 371-1542-19 rushing, 120-936-9 receiving, 491-2478-28 totals

Miami RB's - 409-1748-15 rushing, 87-772-3 receiving, 496-2520-18 totals

2009

Saints RB's - 434-1984-19 rushing, 107-781-7 receiving, 541-2765-26 totals

Miami RB's - 455-2022-20 rushing, 66-594-4 receiving, 521-2616-24 totals

2010

Saints RB's - 351-1480-9 rushing, 111-650-2 receiving, 462-2130-11 total

Miami RB's - 389-1469-8 rushing, 74-535-3 receiving, 463-2004-11 total

For running backs in particular, what is it about Miami's situation that you would have much preferred to the Saints? The fact that Miami has run the ball an average of two running back carries more per game more than the Saints over the past three years? Or the 5 additional rushing yards per game? Or is it the fact that Miami had less rushing TD's than the Saints did over the past three years? It's clearly not because of the added benefit of receiving stats which makes Miami a much preferred destination. A high pass/run ratio and high passing TD/rushing TD ratio in a great offense is greater than a low pass/run ratio and low passing TD/rushing TD ratio for a crappy offense. Other than your fear that Ingram shares too much of the running back pie in New Orleans, what part of being a running back for the Saints isn't nearly ideal?

You and I both know those totals are misleading. Lets separate out the RBs and see what we get, rather than use totals. The Dolphins have a much higher run/pass ratio, run the ball more in the redzone, and generally run their offense starting at the RB position.

Lets look at the stats Williams put up when Brown was injured and compare that to any single Saint RB during a similar span.

 

[mlball77]

I recently drafted Ingram 1.01 in a dynasty league. Does that reserve me a spot on the Ingram HOF bandwagon? I’m not ready to climb aboard yet, but I want to make sure my seat is being held in case I want to jump on at a later date.

 

[SayWhat?]

You and I both know those totals are misleading. Lets separate out the RBs and see what we get, rather than use totals. The Dolphins have a much higher run/pass ratio, run the ball more in the redzone, and generally run their offense starting at the RB position. Lets look at the stats Williams put up when Brown was injured and compare that to any single Saint RB during a similar span.

How are the totals misleading? You want to compare Ronnie Brown and Ricky Williams individually to the likes of Reggie Bush, Pierre Thomas, Chris Ivory, Julius Jones, Lynell Hamilton, etc? C'mon. So basically your only argument against the Saints as a nearly ideal situation is that Ingram won't get a majority of the RB touches, right? Because if he does, the Saints are a better offense that produces better RB statistics than the Dolphins. Also, why would you assume Miami would be any different than New Orleans in terms of workload for Ingram with the way they had split duties between Ricky and Ronnie the past three years?

 

[Concept Coop]

You and I both know those totals are misleading. Lets separate out the RBs and see what we get, rather than use totals. The Dolphins have a much higher run/pass ratio, run the ball more in the redzone, and generally run their offense starting at the RB position. Lets look at the stats Williams put up when Brown was injured and compare that to any single Saint RB during a similar span.

How are the totals misleading? You want to compare Ronnie Brown and Ricky Williams individually to the likes of Reggie Bush, Pierre Thomas, Chris Ivory, Julius Jones, Lynell Hamilton, etc? C'mon. So basically your only argument against the Saints as a nearly ideal situation is that Ingram won't get a majority of the RB touches, right? Because if he does, the Saints are a better offense that produces better RB statistics than the Dolphins. Also, why would you assume Miami would be any different than New Orleans in terms of workload for Ingram with the way they had split duties between Ricky and Ronnie the past three years?

The Saints are a better option if they use Ingram as the main back and he gets 20 touches a game. I am more confident that will happen in Miami. Miami is one averge QB away from being a much better offense. They could find that this offseason. Also, I think Miami builds around Ingram. I think the Saints fit him into what they have.

 

[Go deep]

You and I both know those totals are misleading. Lets separate out the RBs and see what we get, rather than use totals.

The Dolphins have a much higher run/pass ratio, run the ball more in the redzone, and generally run their offense starting at the RB position.

Lets look at the stats Williams put up when Brown was injured and compare that to any single Saint RB during a similar span.

How are the totals misleading? You want to compare Ronnie Brown and Ricky Williams individually to the likes of Reggie Bush, Pierre Thomas, Chris Ivory, Julius Jones, Lynell Hamilton, etc? C'mon. So basically your only argument against the Saints as a nearly ideal situation is that Ingram won't get a majority of the RB touches, right? Because if he does, the Saints are a better offense that produces better RB statistics than the Dolphins. Also, why would you assume Miami would be any different than New Orleans in terms of workload for Ingram with the way they had split duties between Ricky and Ronnie the past three years?

The Saints are a better option if they use Ingram as the main back and he gets 20 touches a game. I am more confident that will happen in Miami. Miami is one averge QB away from being a much better offense. They could find that this offseason. Also, I think Miami builds around Ingram. I think the Saints fit him into what they have.

Kind of like what the Cowboys did with Emmitt Smith.

 

[Scooby1974]

I just find this statement baffling. What makes people think that the Saints organization isn't a near perfect situation for him to land in? Unless you think that Ingram won't get a majority of the RB touches (let's say greater than 65-70%), I don't see how this isn't a perfect fit for him? High powered offense? Check. Stud QB? Check. Dynamic passing game that won't allow defenses to key on the run? Check. Fantastic creativity in the offense that gets their RB's involved in the passing game in large quantities? Check. Lots of touchdowns to be had? Check. Literally, unless you think that a running back that the Saints traded a 1st/2nd for is going to be mired in an equal timeshare with the likes of any of Thomas, Bush, Ivory, etc, then what's not to like?

High pass/run ratio? Check. High passing TD to Rushing TD ratio? Check. High percentage of carries going to other backs? Check. If you are in a PPR league, I think the Saints are a plus for him. Otherwise, I think it is neutral and would have much preferred the Dolphins.

Ingram's skills and abilities have very likely changed the context. The story has changed, we just don't know what it will look like yet. It would be foolish to assume that the ratios will stay the same and that the percentage of carries will stay split.As for the Dolphins, maybe Ingram could have done well there. Who knows, their context has changed as well. With little threat at QB, everyone stacks the box and Ingram would have to contest with 8 guys in the box knowing that he's coming.Context context context...we'll see.

 

[Tchula]

I am a Bama alum and Saints homer, and I seriously want to be on this bandwagon, but there are two concerns. One is that this is a pass first league now, and I don't see that changing anytime soon. Twenty carry games aren't the norm like they once were. Two is I doubt Brees will be playing in the league in 7-8 years. How will the stats look once Brees retires and they have another QB?

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

I think he is a steal. He's a proven stud on one of the best and most complete college football teams in the last decade. He played in a pro style offense; he will be a HOF.

Looking back it, there wasn't a team that needed a RB in the first 20 picks? The first at #24, the second at #38?Only 2 RB's taken in the top 55?This year's RB draft class was that bad? I'm guessing that some guys dropped way past what they will one day be worth and that list starts with Ingram.The idea of the Saints having a legit third and short and goal-line back in that offense makes them dangerously capable of reclaiming the Lombardi. the Hall of Fame predictions can wait, but if Ingram hits 1000 this year, yes, watch out.

 

[DonnyT33]

HOF? Post like this make me chuckle out loud. HOF? Come on let the kid play a GAME or 50 in the NFL before such talk can even begin to be talked about! Jeez! HOF?

 

[Truman]

0 down, 18,355 to go.

Emmitt was one of the most driven athletes who ever existed and had good luck with injuries, a great o-line and elite vision to go with his physical abilities.

 

[Scooby1974]

0 down, 18,355 to go.Emmitt was one of the most driven athletes who ever existed and had good luck with injuries, a great o-line and elite vision to go with his physical abilities.

You people take yourselves WAY too seriously...

 

[Concept Coop]

0 down, 18,355 to go.Emmitt was one of the most driven athletes who ever existed and had good luck with injuries, a great o-line and elite vision to go with his physical abilities.

You people take yourselves WAY too seriously...

What else can you tell me about myself? For some reason, tulips make me sad. I have never known why. Can you help me understand? Hi. I'm Coop by the way.

 

[Dave Larkin]

HOF? Post like this make me chuckle out loud. HOF? Come on let the kid play a GAME or 50 in the NFL before such talk can even begin to be talked about! Jeez! HOF?

Was that inspired by a certain "playoffs" rant?

 

[Donnybrook]

When Ingram got selected by the Saints, he punched a ticket to the hall of fame, assuming he stays healthy,.....

Less than a week before I get to see the HOF in action. Saint fans must be pumped.

 

[CompetitiveEdgeFootball]

0 down, 18,355 to go.Emmitt was one of the most driven athletes who ever existed and had good luck with injuries, a great o-line and elite vision to go with his physical abilities.

You people take yourselves WAY too seriously...

Congratulations, you've stumbled upon the most rabid, narcissistic, self important group of completely obsessed fantasy football fans ever assembled in this solar system.But we do have a lot of good information, and our opinions are better than those magazines you buy at CVS. Enjoy!

 

[Bad_Mo]

Well, my Patriots passed on him in the draft so I consider him more like Ki-Jana Carter or Curtis Enis...obviously. With Chris Ivory on IR, it may very well be Pierre Thomas time.

 

[Kenny Powers]

Since I ended up taking him on a lot of teams, I say lets start carving him up a face statue.

 

[Jersey35]

You shouldn't predict guys who have yet to play a down in the NFL for the HOF - it's dangerous!

Seriously, LOL at so many people arguing how irresponsible it is to predict Ingram into the HOF. I mean, seriously, think of all the kids starving in our own country, and you, just flaunting it with your devil-may-care predictions. Makes me sick!

Ingram? Maybe. You're out on a limb calling him out for the HoF, but then again, any individual's chances are pretty slim. Out of this year's draft class? I'd say his chances are better than the average 2011 rookie for sure.

 

[Irish Chaos]

ingram most overrated of 2011, give me a break....