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Ladarius Green when Gates comes back (1 Viewer)

Futz

Futz

Footballguy
He's been pretty effective including a TD today. San Diego has a plethora of WR injuries and they might lean on the TEs even more with Gates returning. What's your take? Does he remain a low end TE1 or back to purgatory when Gates returns?

 
He'll disappear because he's done this before and Rivers ignores him once Gates comes back. He's best years are ahead if he can get out of SD. Every time he starts he comes through and Rivers gives him no respect.

 
I'm hearing a lot of conventional wisdom based on history here. I'm not convinced that you couldn't put both of these TEs on the field and be effective. LG is showing what a lot of people expected in year's past.

 
Futz said:
I'm hearing a lot of conventional wisdom based on history here. I'm not convinced that you couldn't put both of these TEs on the field and be effective. LG is showing what a lot of people expected in year's past.
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The problem is if he's on the field with Gates he's the 4th read because Rivers wants to have Gates babies. When Gates is out he's the 3rd read. Which makes it even more impressive what he's done in limited action. It's ridiculous but impressive.

 
Milkman said:
Futz said:
I'm hearing a lot of conventional wisdom based on history here. I'm not convinced that you couldn't put both of these TEs on the field and be effective. LG is showing what a lot of people expected in year's past.
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The problem is if he's on the field with Gates he's the 4th read because Rivers wants to have Gates babies. When Gates is out he's the 3rd read. Which makes it even more impressive what he's done in limited action. It's ridiculous but impressive.
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I think you are assuming that every play is drawn up for someone else. Gates is has been River's security blanket but that's also because LG hasn't proven to be reliable in the past. Stevie Johnson came up with a potential hamstring, Floyd gets a concussion, if I'm San Diego I game plan to get both TEs involved next week and perhaps going forward.

 
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Futz said:
Milkman said:
Futz said:
I'm hearing a lot of conventional wisdom based on history here. I'm not convinced that you couldn't put both of these TEs on the field and be effective. LG is showing what a lot of people expected in year's past.
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The problem is if he's on the field with Gates he's the 4th read because Rivers wants to have Gates babies. When Gates is out he's the 3rd read. Which makes it even more impressive what he's done in limited action. It's ridiculous but impressive.
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I think you are assuming that every play is drawn up for someone else. Gates is has been River's security blanket but that's also because LG hasn't proven to be reliable in the past. Stevie Johnson came up with a potential hamstring, Floyd gets a concussion, if I'm San Diego I game plan to get both TEs involved next week and perhaps going forward.
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Maybe bro but you're acting like LG has let the Chargers down. Everytime he is asked to start he flashes. Like I'm not sure he's had a bad game when he's started ever. He might have had one that I'm missing. He has being grossly misused. I hope you're right I love his talent but I'm not holding my breath,

 
Philip Rivers believes Ladarius Green has earned a role when Antonio Gates returns from his suspension.
Gates is due back next Monday night against the Steelers. Green has caught 14-of-18 targets for 174 yards and two touchdowns in three games, missing one with a concussion. "He has had a heck of a (three) games," Rivers stated. "He really has. ... I certainly don't anticipate him on staying on sideline."
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They've been saying that for 2+ years now. For whatever reason they don't like the idea of two TE sets with Green.

 
Futz said:
I'm hearing a lot of conventional wisdom based on history here. I'm not convinced that you couldn't put both of these TEs on the field and be effective. LG is showing what a lot of people expected in year's past.
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Perhaps you aren't familiar with Mike McCoy...

 
msudaisy26 said:
Isn't misusing talented players the standard operating procedure for the Chargers?
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This. In addition to Green, see Ryan Mathews.

Look, when everyone is healthy going forward, Green is no better than #6 in the pecking order for targets, behind (in no particular order) Allen, Stevie, Floyd, Gates, and Woodhead. I'm guessing Stevie and Floyd could miss next week's game, but that likely only bumps Green up by 1 spot, as the #2 WR (presumably Inman) will move ahead of #2 TE Green.

Furthermore, Green has 2 TDs in 3 games. But you can definitely assume most if not all of Green's red zone targets will now shift to Gates.

Unless Gates misses more games, I expect Green will be lucky to average 40 yards per game from here forward, and will be lucky to get 2 more TDs on the season.

 
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I can see Green being used some between the 20s and Gates in the RZ.

 
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bfan85 said:
Just Win Baby said:
msudaisy26 said:
Isn't misusing talented players the standard operating procedure for the Chargers?
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This. In addition to Green, see Ryan Mathews.
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They used Ryan Mathews whenever he was healthy. Can't use him when he's injured.
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No, they didn't. Furthermore, the post I quoted referred to misuse which is not the same as not using him. They often platooned him in a manner that was predictable to the opposing teams and they did not utilize him enough in the passing game, despite the fact that he caught 89 passes in 26 games in the 2 seasons before McCoy got there.

 
How many teams on the history of the nfl has had two viable TEs? One

 
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Arodin said:
shadyridr said:
How many teams on the history of the nfl has had two viable TEs? One
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Hernandez and Gronkowski?Allen and Fleener (briefly).

Dallas Clark and Pollard?

Ok, these are getting more and more strained...
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fleener has,only been good when allen has been hurt and allen has only been a TD dependent TE. Clark was a rookie in 2003 and Pollard was on the back end of his career and not good.
 
What are other owners with both Gates and Green doing? I am probably going to start Gates because last year he dominated.

 
Green had to sleep with River's wife, he needs to get out of S.D.

Should be targeted a lot more, River will go back to ignoring him.

 
What percent of snaps do we anticipate Gates getting? He wasn't injured, but is he in game shape?

 
I get the pessimism on Green going forward, but what about LD as a play this week for a TE needy team? Do people expect Gates to just be inserted and outsnap LD? Plus with potentially two WR's out it might be a solid play.

 
Unless SD moves him to a WR role (which I'll believe after I see it), his value is sunk again and we're stuck waiting for free agency.

 
To give some perspective to what SD is holding on the bench. Green's numbers when he starts.

Average/game- 3.83 catches 63.3 yards .66 TD's

Prorated season - 61-1013-11

Now what if he was given 9 targets a game like Gronk? He's doing this with less than 6 targets a game. They literally have the best (probably not) or second best TE in the league blocking for them so they can have old slow ### Gates run routes.

 
If you've actually watched Green's snaps this year, he's been ridiculous. He's TE5 in standard and TE6 in PPR on a PPG basis despite seeing relatively few targets in comparison to those within his tier. He's caught 14 of 18 targets for an insane catch rate of 78% and despite concussion scares would be an absolute no-brainer high-end TE1 moving forward if it weren't for the return of Gates.

I really love the talent and wish the potential wasn't about to be squandered. I almost want to continue to hold him to see if SD wises up and keeps this dude on the field but sadly it probably still wouldn't be enough. Best case scenario for Green owners is that 35 year old Gates was leaning heavy on PEDs to stay competitive and just falls off a cliff upon his return.

 
psu007 said:
I get the pessimism on Green going forward, but what about LD as a play this week for a TE needy team? Do people expect Gates to just be inserted and outsnap LD? Plus with potentially two WR's out it might be a solid play.
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yes
 
psu007 said:
I get the pessimism on Green going forward, but what about LD as a play this week for a TE needy team? Do people expect Gates to just be inserted and outsnap LD? Plus with potentially two WR's out it might be a solid play.
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Yes, Gates isn't coming off of a injury, just a suspension. He's healthy and eager to go. Even with SD's other WR injuries Green isn't likely to see many balls thrown his way. Gates should be the man this weekend and also going forward. You should be able to find better TE options on the waiver wire.

 
Antonio Gates is 35 years old. I've had him on my team for many years and still do. He's coming off a suspension for PED's and is presumably no longer on whatever it was that triggered the positive. I'm not saying he's going to stink, but I have expected a decline out of him for about five straight seasons. He might temporarily ruin Green's value in the short term, but how much longer can he continue to play like Antonio Gates?

 
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cliffhuxtible said:
Antonio Gates is 35 years old. I've had him on my team for many years and still do. He's coming off a suspension for PED's and is presumably no longer on whatever it was that triggered the positive. I'm not saying he's going to stink, but I have expected a decline out of him for about five straight seasons. He might temporarily ruin Green's value in the short term, but how much longer can he continue to play like Antonio Gates?
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The more relevant question is how much longer will Rivers target him like Antonio Gates. The answer is the rest of this season, barring injury.

 
Just Win Baby said:
cliffhuxtible said:
Antonio Gates is 35 years old. I've had him on my team for many years and still do. He's coming off a suspension for PED's and is presumably no longer on whatever it was that triggered the positive. I'm not saying he's going to stink, but I have expected a decline out of him for about five straight seasons. He might temporarily ruin Green's value in the short term, but how much longer can he continue to play like Antonio Gates?
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The more relevant question is how much longer will Rivers target him like Antonio Gates. The answer is the rest of this season, barring injury.
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And Gates doesn't have to play with the speed and athleticism of other guys. He's been slow for years, but he finds the gap in the endzone when necessary and he can still be physical and out position 99% of anyone they will put on him.

 
Any chance the Chargers give LG reps at WR with the plethora of injuries . I mean I think this makes sense especially in the redzone.

 
No. It would have made sense to put him in the slot two years ago and they haven't done it. They like using him as a blocker and using hot garbage in the slot. It's worked out well for them.

 
I want to believe that SD would be smart here. I doubt it. I'd hold green if I have him, but I do not think you can start him with any sort of confidence this week (or next when Stevie and Floyd come back).

 
I own both but i am starting Gates this week. History has shown that Gates is the guy when they are both healthy and available for service.

 
Nick Vermeil said:
Just Win Baby said:
cliffhuxtible said:
Antonio Gates is 35 years old. I've had him on my team for many years and still do. He's coming off a suspension for PED's and is presumably no longer on whatever it was that triggered the positive. I'm not saying he's going to stink, but I have expected a decline out of him for about five straight seasons. He might temporarily ruin Green's value in the short term, but how much longer can he continue to play like Antonio Gates?
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The more relevant question is how much longer will Rivers target him like Antonio Gates. The answer is the rest of this season, barring injury.
Click to expand...
And Gates doesn't have to play with the speed and athleticism of other guys. He's been slow for years, but he finds the gap in the endzone when necessary and he can still be physical and out position 99% of anyone they will put on him.
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yep
 
SD is sooooo dumb.

Ladarius Green catches a 20 yard pass and they call it back. They basically pull Green (except for blocking) for the most part and don't target him at all so they don't move the ball for like 25+ minutes and look like total POOP. Then they target Green once and he makes a nice play. It jump starts their offense and they start to move the ball. Then they don't target him again and the POOP comes back.

O.M.G.

 
Long term, this is the perfect opportunity to acquire Green (if he isn't already owned). Gates's contract expires after this season. Obviously I'm talking dynasty here. In redraft, it appears that they know what they have in Green and won't phase him out completely. He has been rotating in with Gates. But next season, I expect Gates to be out and Green to be in. I'm ready to drop Dwayne Allen for him and bid on him next week. His owner cut him after Gates's suspension was lifted.

 
Milkman said:
SD is sooooo dumb.

Ladarius Green catches a 20 yard pass and they call it back. They basically pull Green (except for blocking) for the most part and don't target him at all so they don't move the ball for like 25+ minutes and look like total POOP. Then they target Green once and he makes a nice play. It jump starts their offense and they start to move the ball. Then they don't target him again and the POOP comes back.

O.M.G.
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Their offense doesn't suck because they're not targeting Green.
 
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