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Kyle Rittenhouse Trial: Defense Rests. Resisting the urge to go full HT and just purge this crapshow of a thread. (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter The Commish
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I have to disagree with this. Given the situation he was in - multiple people attacking him from different angles - I think he did a remarkable job taking out the immediate threats and limiting collateral damage. Very accurate, very efficient. If you watch the video in slow motion he only shoots Grosskreutz when he points his gun at him. And I think a couple of his shots were in the air to scare people away. Say what you want about Rittenhouse, but he was very well trained in how to use that weapon.
The facebook live feed I was watching really showed this well. When I was watching it live the guy filming it was maybe 40 or 50 feet behind where Rittenhouse was knocked down. The guy said something like “people are being shot everywhere.” I thought for sure there was going to be at least 5 fatalities.
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the rover
Footballguy
The “immediate threats” were a guy that threw a plastic bag at him, a guy with a skateboard who tried to take his gun away after he had killed someone, and a paramedic who may or may not have showed a gun to him. He fired several shots that missed. They were not “warning shots.” Under his theory, everyone there had a right to kill him.
Aggression. the action or an act of attacking without provocation.
He showed no aggression. Words have specific meaning. When someone is chasing you and assaults you, it is not aggression to respond.
Fantasy: just s guy throwing plastic bag.the rover said:
Reality. A harden criminal who was chasing him down trying to take his weapon, all of which were unprovoked.
Fantasy. A guy with a skateboard.
Reality. If this were Jan. 6th, it would be called hitting him across the head with a deadly weapon.
Fantasy. May or May not have shown a gun.
Reality. The gun was clearly visible to Riddenhouse who pulled off a remarkable shot hitting him in the arm which possessed the gun saving his life.
There were many more immediate threats. When Rittenhouse was chased by the guy throwing the bag someone fired a shot. And then, after Rittenhouse shot the man throwing the bag another three shots were fired - presumably people firing at Rittenhouse. When Rittenhouse was attacked while running away and fell to the ground, he had one guy try to kick him in the head, one guy try to hit him over the head with a skateboard, and another guy point a weapon at him. And he did point the weapon at him - it’s clear as day. 3 attackers and Rittenhouse fired 4 shots.the rover said:
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the rover
Footballguy
There is zero evidence that anyone shot at Rittenhouse. When you have to make stuff up to defend your position, you probably have a pretty weak position. Weird how the people that are defending murder can’t work with the actual facts.
The were other shots fired and there were people screaming at Rittenhouse, so there is evidence. Sure it is speculation, but you have speculated too.
the rover
Footballguy
Rittenhouse fired a lot more than 4 shots. He shot Rosenbaum 5 times alone, plus he missed some shots. No clue where you guys get this nonsense or why you keep making things up.
The Commish
Footballguy
I'd definitely like to hear his thought process from him. Would definitely help me understand things from his POV. I don't know the answer to your question. And honestly, I don't think the question is complete...or at the very least it needs to be two part with the second part being "why did he feel it was a good idea to take a weapon with him into such an emotionally charged environment?"FairWarning said:
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FairWarning
Footballguy
I wish we had the old court tv back for cases like this. Just show the case and let the public decide.
Perhaps you missed the word “presumably”. Doesn’t really matter though when talking about a perceived immediate threat on Rittenhouse’s part.
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When Rittenhouse fell to the ground when the three people were attacking him he only fired four shots. If that is incorrect let me know. Who knows what is fake news but I did see that written in what looked to be a good accounting of things.
The Z Machine
Footballguy
New self defense theory: If you are in a place with shots fired, you may shoot anyone else around you that has a gun, as they are a threat to you.
How about this theory. Don't be an angry psychopath, threatening people, chasing them down, assaulting them trying to take their weapons. The way that people whitewash Rosebaum and his behavior is some of the most fantastic intentionally oblivious spinning ever.
Dickies
Footballguy
I thought he acted incredibly poorly, but I also don't think he deserved to die for those actions.
It was either him or Rittenhouse. And if Rittenhouse did not show up, Rosenbaum would have engaged someone else.
dkp993
Footballguy
I agree the bolded. I would also add... Don't try to play vigilante and bring an AR to a riot where angry psychopaths are threatening people, chasing them down and assaulting them. The way that people whitewash Rittenhouse's accountability and his behavior is some of the most fantastic intentionally oblivious spinning ever
The Z Machine
Footballguy
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
Somebody would have been dead. Maybe more people if Rosenbaum had exploded the gas station like he tried.
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Dickies
Footballguy
The way you speak in absolutes about what would have happened if the circumstances were different is what makes your arguments difficult to take seriously. We don’t know if Rosenbaum would have killed Rittenhouse. We don’t know if he would have killed someone else in the absence of Rittenhouse.
If he had actually killed Rittenhouse or one of the other vigilante cosplayers, I doubt there would be people in here defending him.
The Commish
Footballguy
The Z Machine
Footballguy
Maybe more people would be dead if Rottenhouse had a tank. Maybe more would be dead if there was a zombie attack instead of a riot.
Except Rittenhouse did not have a tank nor want one. Rosenbaum did ignite a dumpster on fire and push it towards a gas station.
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the rover
Footballguy
squistion
Footballguy
The Z Machine
Footballguy
dkp993
Footballguy
Oh he did. Rittenhouse > Batman. He’s our vigilante hero and saved thousands that night likely. These are facts any rational person knows.
the rover
Footballguy
There is video of a dumpster being set on fire and pushed toward police cars on the street. The part about trying to blow up a gas station is just Jon making things up again.
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The Z Machine
Footballguy
the rover
Footballguy
I hadn't seen the start of the chase between Rosenbaum until tonight. It looked like the crowd was moving as the police was dispersing them and they show Rittenhouse walking alone start jogging and then Rosenbaum, who was about 30 feet behind, take off after him. It would appear what triggered the pursuit was opportunity. Rosenbaum, who had been jawing all night at the guys with guns protecting property, saw this Rittenhouse kid alone so started yelling something at him. Rittenhouse realizing it was directed at him got scared and took off and the chase began. At that point the chase was picked up by the other cell phone and the video everyone has seen.
I doubt Rittenhouse will testify, but it would be interesting to find out what was said. But it is understandable why he was scared. I hope the court allows some of the earlier video which show Rosenbaum's angry state of mind that night. I think it is unfair that the jury will almost certainly not hear about Rosenbaum's long violent history as it establishes that Rittenhouse's perceived fear were not imagined but in fact real. Rittenhouse's biggest mistake was being alone and becoming an easy target for this psychopath.
I doubt Rittenhouse will testify, but it would be interesting to find out what was said. But it is understandable why he was scared. I hope the court allows some of the earlier video which show Rosenbaum's angry state of mind that night. I think it is unfair that the jury will almost certainly not hear about Rosenbaum's long violent history as it establishes that Rittenhouse's perceived fear were not imagined but in fact real. Rittenhouse's biggest mistake was being alone and becoming an easy target for this psychopath.
The Z Machine
Footballguy
That wasn't his biggest mistake. Going to a riot with a rifle was his biggest mistake. Whole lotta not smart there.
The Commish
Footballguy
Did Rosenbaum and Rittenhouse know each other? I hadn't heard that yet. Is that true?
This case is decided at jury selection. If you watched the Zimmerman trial, that was in the bag for the defense when the first pro-gun self-defense advocate female juror was selected. There was zero chance in a million years she was ever going to vote to convict. There was only one black lady on the juror who was the last holdout who was the most sympathetic to Martin. The political makeup of the jury will be the deciding factor. The defense can only lose if they allow a bunch of woke anti-gun jurors. Seating even a single strong pro-gun/self-defense juror guarantees at least a hung jury. That is probably the most likely outcome with acquittal a close second. A conviction is extremely remote unless the defense team falls asleep and gets completely outmanuvered on jury selection.
Absolutely not. They walked by each other a couple times earlier without flinching at each other. There was a guy dressed like Rittenhouse who Rosenbaum yelled at earlier. There is a theory which Rosenbaum might have thought that Rittenhouse was that guy when he saw him and chased him.
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The Commish
Footballguy
Then I have no idea what Rosenbaum's past has to do with anything in the moments of their altercation. At that point this kid was just reacting to what was going on right then
I'm pretty confident that Rittenhouse was in fear. If he wasn't that's a problem IMO. His fear, however, has no basis in Rosenbaum's history so I fail to see how that history has any bearing whatsoever much less it being unfair that it's not introduced. Because they are charging Rittenhouse with 1st Degree homicide. If the victim provoked the situation, then it drops to at least to 2nd degree. The victims past should not be an issue because the video evidence clearly shows he was the aggressor, but yet since the prosecution is pursuing 1st degree homicide, the issue of who provoked the confrontation is a key factor and the character of the victim and the defendant including past records should be relevant. I still think it is absolutely nuts and 100 percent political that 1st degree is even on the table, but since it is, that makes Rosenbaum's history relevant.Then I have no idea what Rosenbaum's past has to do with anything in the moments of their altercation. At that point this kid was just reacting to what was going on right then
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The Commish
Footballguy
Still not connecting the dots. No idea what the guy's history has to do with him being the "aggressor" in this case. The actions of the night/event will prove that, not the person's mental history. His mental history might shed light on WHY he was the aggressor (which seems irrelevant still), but they won't show that he WAS the aggressor. It's two completely different things.
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Rosenbaum is an extremely volatile guy who just got out prison and a mental hospital. According to his girlfriend he was on medication and was not able to get his prescription filled because the pharmacy was closed, probably due to the unrest in the town. If I have to make a judgement on who the aggressor was, and we know this guy is a raging maniac who was involved in arson, who was wielding chains, who was trying to start fights all night with numerous people, that paints a real clear picture that in all likelihood Rosenbaum was the aggressor. It will be a tough fight to get this evidence in, but I think the state of mind of Rosenbaum establishes even beyond a reasonable doubt that Rittenhouse acted in self-defense.
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
He did not shot him for throwing the bag, He shot him while Rosenbaum was attempting to take Rittenhouse's gun. In many jurisdictions, the attempt to take someone's weapon alone is automatically considered an act which justifies deadly force.
dawgtrails
Footballguy
This was not obviously the case and the reason armed cosplay dudes showed up pretending to offer protection when all they did was ignite an already tense situation.
Say whatever you want, but those vigilantes absolutely prevented a ton of arson and destruction to Kenosha that night.
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