John Elway, Super Bowl Choker (1 Viewer)

[moderated]

John Elway, Super Bowl Choker

One clip that all Packer fans hate is that clip of John Elway getting drilled as he barely scores a touchdown by "helicoptering" into the end zone in the Super Bowl. The reason we hate that clip is that it is the only memorable clip Elway has from that day, as he played an absolutely terrible game. If not for that stupid one-yard run that should have been given to Terrell Davis anyway, no one would even think that Elway contributed anything to that game, because he didn't.

But what makes Packer fans, and me even crazier, is that John Elway's two Super Bowls have put him ahead of Brett Favre on the "all-time greatest QBs list" in the minds of many people. (The worst offender is probably ESPN radio host Colin Cowherd, but that's OK because disagreeing with Colin is one of the ways to know that you're right.)

It's stupid to use Super Bowl wins as a criteria for judging individual players anyway. You need a great team to win the Super Bowl. But if you are going to use Super Bowl performance as a factor, shouldn't you actually examine the contributions of those players in the Super Bowl? Of course you should. I went into the NFL archives and ranked every starting Super Bowl QB since 1982 by QB rating. I took out the RBs, WRs, and backups QBs that the NFL has on the list. It's pretty interesting:

1. Phil Simms, 1986, 150.9

2. Joe Montana, 1989, 147.6

3. Troy Aikman, 1992, 140.7

4. Steve Young, 1994, 134.8

5. Doug Williams, 1987, 127.9

6. Joe Montana, 1984, 127.2

7. Joe Montana, 1988, 115.2

8. Jake Delhomme, 1983, 113.6

9. Tom Brady, 2004, 110.2

10. Troy Aikman, 1995, 108.8

11. Brett Favre, 1996, 107.9

12. Jim McMahon, 1985, 104.2

13. Tom Brady, 2003, 100.5

14. Kurt Warner, 1999, 99.7

15. John Elway, 1998, 99.2

16. Jim Plunkett, 1983, 97.4

17. Jeff Hostetler, 1990, 93.5

18. Mark Rypien, 1991, 92.0

19. Brett Favre, 1997, 91.0

20. Tom Brady, 2001, 86.2

21. John Elway, 1986, 83.6

22. Peyton Manning, 2006, 81.6

23. Jim Kelly, 1990, 81.5

24. Trent Dilfer, 2000, 80.9

25. Brad Johnson, 2002, 79.9

26. Steve McNair, 1999, 77.8

27. Troy Aikman, 1993, 77.2

28. Donovan McNabb, 75.4

29. Joe Theismann, 1982, 75.1

30. Rex Grossman, 2006, 68.3

31. Matt Hasselbeck, 2005, 67.8

32. Jim Kelly, 1993, 67.1

33. Dan Marino, 1984, 66.9

34. Frank Reich, 1992, 60.4

35. Steve Grogam, 1985, 57.2

36. Stan Humphries, 1994. 56.1

37. John Elway, 1997, 51.9

38. Neil O'Donnell, 1995, 51.3

39. Rich Gannon, 2002, 48.9

40. Chris Chandler, 1998, 47.2

41. Drew Bledsoe, 1996, 46.6

42. Boomer Esiason, 1988, 461.

43. Joe Theismann, 1983, 45,3

44. Jim Kelly, 1991, 44.8

45. John Elway, 1987, 36.8

46. Ben Roethlisberger, 2005, 22.6

47. John Elway, 1989, 19.4

48. Kerry Collins, 2000, 7.1

Basically, John Elway should thank his lucky stars that Kerry Collins managed to play in a Super Bowl, but Elway still has 2 of the worst 4 Super Bowl performances since 1982, and 3 of the worst 12, including the Broncos' victory over the Packers. His best performance ranks only 15th on this list.

But what this list really tells you is how stupid it is to use one game to define a career. Ben Roethlisberger quarterbacked the 3rd worst game of the last 24 years, and his team managed to win. Phil Simms tops the list and no one thinks of him as an all-time great. Jake Delhomme is in the top ten and he's probably not even an average QB.

The fact is that John Elway is an all-time great, but you can't tell anything about his career from his Super Bowl play, just like you can't tell anything about Dan Marino, or Jake Delhomme, or Doug Williams from their Super Bowl play.

But, when you're watching the game tonight and they invariably show that highlight of Elway's touchdown against the Packers in the Super Bowl, you will now be able to turn to the person next to you and say:

You know, that guy had the 3 worst Super Bowl performances of the last quarter century. And he somehow managed to win one of those games.

 

[PatsWillWin]

But what does this have to do with the Patriots?

 

[dgreen]

One clip that all Packer fans hate is that clip of John Elway getting drilled as he barely scores a touchdown by "helicoptering" into the end zone in the Super Bowl.

He didn't score on that play.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Whatever helps you sleep better at night

 

[switz]

One clip that all Packer fans hate is that clip of John Elway getting drilled as he barely scores a touchdown by "helicoptering" into the end zone in the Super Bowl.

Now that we know this "study" was conducted without bias....

(The worst offender is probably ESPN radio host Colin Cowherd, but that's OK because disagreeing with Colin is one of the ways to know that you're right.)

Please forgive me for disagreeing with this...

It's stupid to use Super Bowl wins as a criteria for judging individual players anyway. I went into the NFL archives and ranked every starting Super Bowl QB since 1982 by QB rating.

I agree it's stupid to use SuperBowl wins as a criteria - it's takes more to get a team TO a SuperBowl than to win one. But even that isn't all about the QB, it's about the team.

Phil Simms tops the list and no one thinks of him as an all-time great.

which goes to show you how inaccurate a QB-rating is to determine who played great in a SuperBowl or not

you will now be able to turn to the person next to you and say: You know, that guy had the 3 worst Super Bowl performances of the last quarter century. And he somehow managed to win one of those games.

Or the worst three QB ratings in a SuperBowl. QB rating != performance.

 

[oddball]

List the QB ratings he had for all the games of those 3 seasons, and by comparison we can tell if he choked or played like he did all season. Until then, unfair to call it 'choking'.

 

[TommyGilmore]

15. John Elway, 1998, 99.2

16. Jim Plunkett, 1983, 97.4

17. Jeff Hostetler, 1990, 93.5

18. Mark Rypien, 1991, 92.0

19. Brett Favre, 1997, 91.0

 

[BusterTBronco]

The Broncos dropped 31 pts on the Packers that day. I suppose Elway had NOTHING to do with that, huh Packers fan?

Elway was also named MVP of SB33.

This has to be the most idiotic thread of all time.

 

[dgreen]

This has to be the most idiotic thread of all time.

You've only been a couple months.You a'int seen nothing yet.

 

[rascal]

What was his rating for all AFC championship games?

The Broncos were woefully over matched in every SB game they were in prior to 1997. The fact they made it at all is impressive.

 

[cstu]

45. John Elway, 1987, 36.8

47. John Elway, 1989, 19.4

Not many QB's would even be able to get those Broncos teams to the SB. The Redskins loss was bad IMO because the Broncos were playing fine until they gave up 35 points in the 2nd quarter. Hard to fault Elway when he's playing from that far down. They were just over-matched against the 49ers.

 

[dgreen]

What was his rating for all AFC championship games?

I came up with 91.8.79.8 in all postseason games.

 

[MarshallRob]

First of all, I greatly enjoy reading angry rants so thanks for this thread. Secondly, while some of what you are saying is undeniable, mainly that for the most part Elway performed poorly in Super Bowls, QB ratings are not always the best measuring stick to use. Yeah, Favre had a better rating than Elway in the 1997 Super Bowl. However, Favre also fumbled once and had the ball three times in the 4th quarter with a chance to take the lead or tie and didn't come through. Those things aren't represented in his rating.

 

[SaintArnold]

Hmmm, I wonder why a Packers fan would decide to post an anti-Elway thread today?

 

[Iwannabeacowboybaby!]

First of all, I greatly enjoy reading angry rants so thanks for this thread. Secondly, while some of what you are saying is undeniable, mainly that for the most part Elway performed poorly in Super Bowls, QB ratings are not always the best measuring stick to use. Yeah, Favre had a better rating than Elway in the 1997 Super Bowl. However, Favre also fumbled once and had the ball three times in the 4th quarter with a chance to take the lead or tie and didn't come through. Those things aren't represented in his rating.

Ya, the QB ratings are just one tool to use in determining how the QB played. I don't think anyone's going to say Elway played great in those games but the guy got his team there and rallied them to win.I do applaud your effort in riling up Bronco fans and am sure the catchy title will get many fishermen. This post is officially over..........now.(My first non Patriot post in awhile, feels good.)

 

[RBM]

Did this guy write this whole big post after getting that memorable play wrong?Wow. Where the hell did this come from?

One clip that all Packer fans hate is that clip of John Elway getting drilled as he barely scores a touchdown by "helicoptering" into the end zone in the Super Bowl. The reason we hate that clip is that it is the only memorable clip Elway has from that day, as he played an absolutely terrible game. If not for that stupid one-yard run that should have been given to Terrell Davis anyway, no one would even think that Elway contributed anything to that game, because he didn't.

 

[Pipes]

As a Packer fan I'm embarrased by this thread.

 

[oddball]

It just occured to me...could Moderated be a Big Daddy Kane alias?

 

[timintey]

My first thought of this stupid thread is Secondly,

Phil Simms tops the list and no one thinks of him as an all-time great.

I do (Giant fan here)

 

[KoolKat]

This has to be the most idiotic thread of all time.

You've only been a couple months.You a'int seen nothing yet.

LMAO

 

[thayman]

So you are mad that people think Elway is better than Favre. So you put some together a argument that says Jake Delhomme is better than Favre???

 

[Courtjester]

This has to be the most idiotic thread of all time.

You've only been a couple months.You a'int seen nothing yet.

The bar is set and reset each day....

 

[moderated]

This was actually something a guy in one of my FF leagues sent out and i just plagiarized it.

I would never take that much time to write a post.

 

[switz]

This was actually something a guy in one of my FF leagues sent out and i just plagiarized it.I would never take that much time to write a post.

So after reading it the first time, you actually thought it was a good idea to post it? And now that it's been pointed out how ridiculous the post is, you are trying to duck behind "cheating"?

 

[Rocky]

It's not even yours.

Nice job trying to play it off this late in the thread.

 

[moderated]

This was actually something a guy in one of my FF leagues sent out and i just plagiarized it.I would never take that much time to write a post.

So after reading it the first time, you actually thought it was a good idea to post it? And now that it's been pointed out how ridiculous the post is, you are trying to duck behind "cheating"?

I honestly didn't read much of it at all until after i posted it.There is a guy in one of my leagues who sends out really long emails once every other week so i figured i'd post it and if it went over well i'd keep doing it and take credit for it.

 

[pinda]

wow as a Denver fan, I could have sworn Denver beating Green Bay in Superbowl XXXII was 10 years ago, i guess it must have been yesterday



Original poster should get the Delorian back to the Doc before he figures out it's missing.

 

[dickey moe]

He helicoptered towards a first down, not a TD score. Good info here.

 

[Kitrick Taylor]

I can now handle the fact that the Packers lost that game.

What still pisses me off is the fact that the Broncos cheated the salary cap that year, and got caught! Basically Elway and a few others got suitcases full of $50s to stay with the team rather than test FA.

Their punishment? They were stripped of a 3rd round pick a few years later, only to be rewarded with another 3rd rounder that same year as a comp pick.

 

[Yenrub]

My first thought of this stupid thread is Secondly,

Phil Simms tops the list and no one thinks of him as an all-time great.

I do (Giant fan here)

MoP thinks so too Just messing with you MoP

 

[Tanner9919]

John Elway, Super Bowl Choker

One clip that all Packer fans hate is that clip of John Elway getting drilled as he barely scores a touchdown by "helicoptering" into the end zone in the Super Bowl. The reason we hate that clip is that it is the only memorable clip Elway has from that day, as he played an absolutely terrible game. If not for that stupid one-yard run that should have been given to Terrell Davis anyway, no one would even think that Elway contributed anything to that game, because he didn't.

But what makes Packer fans, and me even crazier, is that John Elway's two Super Bowls have put him ahead of Brett Favre on the "all-time greatest QBs list" in the minds of many people. (The worst offender is probably ESPN radio host Colin Cowherd, but that's OK because disagreeing with Colin is one of the ways to know that you're right.)

It's stupid to use Super Bowl wins as a criteria for judging individual players anyway. You need a great team to win the Super Bowl. But if you are going to use Super Bowl performance as a factor, shouldn't you actually examine the contributions of those players in the Super Bowl? Of course you should. I went into the NFL archives and ranked every starting Super Bowl QB since 1982 by QB rating. I took out the RBs, WRs, and backups QBs that the NFL has on the list. It's pretty interesting:

so, can you tell me, how will this motivate that guy named Tatum Bell?

 

[Ghost Rider]

The Broncos dropped 31 pts on the Packers that day. I suppose Elway had NOTHING to do with that, huh Packers fan?Elway was also named MVP of SB33.This has to be the most idiotic thread of all time.

 

[TommyGilmore]

I can now handle the fact that the Packers lost that game. What still pisses me off is the fact that the Broncos cheated the salary cap that year, and got caught! Basically Elway and a few others got suitcases full of $50s to stay with the team rather than test FA.Their punishment? They were stripped of a 3rd round pick a few years later, only to be rewarded with another 3rd rounder that same year as a comp pick.

But how many $50s were in the suitcase? Is it like "Deal Or No Deal"?

 

[pinda]

I can now handle the fact that the Packers lost that game. What still pisses me off is the fact that the Broncos cheated the salary cap that year, and got caught! Basically Elway and a few others got suitcases full of $50s to stay with the team rather than test FA.Their punishment? They were stripped of a 3rd round pick a few years later, only to be rewarded with another 3rd rounder that same year as a comp pick.

Do your research before putting up assuming posts. Your "basically" statement is "basically" wrong. Find out what the Broncos were caught doing then post.

 

[Kitrick Taylor]

I can now handle the fact that the Packers lost that game.

What still pisses me off is the fact that the Broncos cheated the salary cap that year, and got caught! Basically Elway and a few others got suitcases full of $50s to stay with the team rather than test FA.

Their punishment? They were stripped of a 3rd round pick a few years later, only to be rewarded with another 3rd rounder that same year as a comp pick.

Do your research before putting up assuming posts. Your "basically" statement is "basically" wrong. Find out what the Broncos were caught doing then post.

So sorry for not being precise.http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/artic...-2004Sep17.html

 

[428143]

I can now handle the fact that the Packers lost that game. What still pisses me off is the fact that the Broncos cheated the salary cap that year, and got caught! Basically Elway and a few others got suitcases full of $50s to stay with the team rather than test FA.Their punishment? They were stripped of a 3rd round pick a few years later, only to be rewarded with another 3rd rounder that same year as a comp pick.

Do your research before putting up assuming posts. Your "basically" statement is "basically" wrong. Find out what the Broncos were caught doing then post.

It's all very shady, and will probably stay that way for quite a while.

 

[pinda]

I can now handle the fact that the Packers lost that game.

What still pisses me off is the fact that the Broncos cheated the salary cap that year, and got caught! Basically Elway and a few others got suitcases full of $50s to stay with the team rather than test FA.

Their punishment? They were stripped of a 3rd round pick a few years later, only to be rewarded with another 3rd rounder that same year as a comp pick.

Do your research before putting up assuming posts. Your "basically" statement is "basically" wrong. Find out what the Broncos were caught doing then post.

So sorry for not being precise.http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/artic...-2004Sep17.html

Henderson said in the statement. "These agreements were plainly designed to help the club cope with seasonal cash flow problems exacerbated by the Broncos' need to fund front-end expenditures associated with development of the new stadium in Denver."

so sorry it wasn't what you made it out to be, do you also realize that when they did what they did, there were no written rules stating that they couldn't do that, but were put in after the fact. if they cheated, don't you think it would have been more than just a 3rd rounder, good try, but let's move on here.

 

[KingEl]

You only have Montana with three Super Bowls- he had 4. and you have some wrong years on some of the guys. Just for info

 

[nxmehta]

This has to be the most idiotic thread of all time.

You've only been a couple months.You a'int seen nothing yet.

Post of the year.

 

[shredhead]

As a Packer fan I'm embarrased by this thread.

I'm glad to see not all Packer fans are as stupid as the original poster.Hey moderated, How many times is Favre on your superbowl QB rating list? Elway is on it 5 times. That just might come into plaqy as to why his name gets mentioned amongst the all time great QB's. Favre is a great QB too. There are many ways to argue that Favre is better than Elway. There are many ways to argue that Elway is better than Favre. You didn't manage to find a good argument either way. Your post is basically garbage and proves absolutely nothing. You lose a lot of credibility when you talk about a TD play when it wasn't even a TD. You also mentioned a TD run by Elway that should have gone to Terrell Davis. If you are talking about the TD at the end of the first half, then you are wrong again. That play, Davis had taken himself out of the game because of a migraine headache that left him with a temorary loss of vision. Shanahan talked him into going back into the game to act as a decoy saying that he didn't need to be able to see because if he was in the game, the Packer's defense would think he was going to get the ball. Elway then faked the handoff to Davis, the defense bit on the fake, and Elway rolls out for the TD run. Question for you moderated, did you even watch that superbowl game? As was mentioned by someone else, that game was 10 years ago. Get over it, and welcome to the 21st century.

 

[moderated]

As a Packer fan I'm embarrased by this thread.

I'm glad to see not all Packer fans are as stupid as the original poster.Hey moderated, How many times is Favre on your superbowl QB rating list? Elway is on it 5 times. That just might come into plaqy as to why his name gets mentioned amongst the all time great QB's. Favre is a great QB too. There are many ways to argue that Favre is better than Elway. There are many ways to argue that Elway is better than Favre. You didn't manage to find a good argument either way. Your post is basically garbage and proves absolutely nothing. You lose a lot of credibility when you talk about a TD play when it wasn't even a TD. You also mentioned a TD run by Elway that should have gone to Terrell Davis. If you are talking about the TD at the end of the first half, then you are wrong again. That play, Davis had taken himself out of the game because of a migraine headache that left him with a temorary loss of vision. Shanahan talked him into going back into the game to act as a decoy saying that he didn't need to be able to see because if he was in the game, the Packer's defense would think he was going to get the ball. Elway then faked the handoff to Davis, the defense bit on the fake, and Elway rolls out for the TD run. Question for you moderated, did you even watch that superbowl game?

As was mentioned by someone else, that game was 10 years ago. Get over it, and welcome to the 21st century.

Only problem is that i didn't write it.Here is the guy i copied it from, enjoy. Make sure to leave nasty remarks in his comments section.

Elway, Super Bowl Choker

 

[Green and Gold]

Wow, Jake Delhomme is way older than I thoguht.

 

[vitaflo]

Hey I still get nightmares of the Packers losing that SB too, and I'm not a big Elway fan to begin with, but gimme a break. You gotta be a pretty damn good football player to start in FIVE Superbowls, I don't care what your QB rating is.

 

[enfuego]

Thread started out a 4...slipping quickly to the nether region

 

[Prodigal19]

I can now handle the fact that the Packers lost that game.

What still pisses me off is the fact that the Broncos cheated the salary cap that year, and got caught! Basically Elway and a few others got suitcases full of $50s to stay with the team rather than test FA.

Their punishment? They were stripped of a 3rd round pick a few years later, only to be rewarded with another 3rd rounder that same year as a comp pick.

What the broncos did gave them no competitive advantage at all, they didn't gain a single dollar on the cap. It all had to do with a loophole and misinterpretation of the deferred compensation fund. Thats why it really wasn't big news when it all occurred. Do you even remember the situation or do you just go with everybody that says the broncos cheated because they don't like the team?

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/print?id=12...5&type=news

 

[shredhead]

As a Packer fan I'm embarrased by this thread.

I'm glad to see not all Packer fans are as stupid as the original poster.Hey moderated, How many times is Favre on your superbowl QB rating list? Elway is on it 5 times. That just might come into plaqy as to why his name gets mentioned amongst the all time great QB's. Favre is a great QB too. There are many ways to argue that Favre is better than Elway. There are many ways to argue that Elway is better than Favre. You didn't manage to find a good argument either way. Your post is basically garbage and proves absolutely nothing. You lose a lot of credibility when you talk about a TD play when it wasn't even a TD. You also mentioned a TD run by Elway that should have gone to Terrell Davis. If you are talking about the TD at the end of the first half, then you are wrong again. That play, Davis had taken himself out of the game because of a migraine headache that left him with a temorary loss of vision. Shanahan talked him into going back into the game to act as a decoy saying that he didn't need to be able to see because if he was in the game, the Packer's defense would think he was going to get the ball. Elway then faked the handoff to Davis, the defense bit on the fake, and Elway rolls out for the TD run. Question for you moderated, did you even watch that superbowl game? As was mentioned by someone else, that game was 10 years ago. Get over it, and welcome to the 21st century.

Only problem is that i didn't write it.

I know, I read where you posted that you didn't write it. The only thin more stupid than writing something like this is to copy it and post it without checking it for accuracy. Then not giving credit to the original writer until after other people find inaccuracies in it. Another question for you, (even though you never answered my first question) If the facts in your post weren't wrong and everyone thought it was a good post and were saying things like "good post moderated, you da bomb" would you still admitted that it wasn't written by you?

 

[Stompin' Tom Connors]

All this blather about QBs choking in Superbowls, and Jim Kelly's name isn't even mentioned?

Tis a pity, really.

 

[moderated]

I know, I read where you posted that you didn't write it. The only thin more stupid than writing something like this is to copy it and post it without checking it for accuracy. Then not giving credit to the original writer until after other people find inaccuracies in it. Another question for you, (even though you never answered my first question) If the facts in your post weren't wrong and everyone thought it was a good post and were saying things like "good post moderated, you da bomb" would you still admitted that it wasn't written by you?

If it was viewed in a positive light i would have taken credit for it and basked in the instant board cred.

 

[Prodigal19]

I know, I read where you posted that you didn't write it. The only thin more stupid than writing something like this is to copy it and post it without checking it for accuracy. Then not giving credit to the original writer until after other people find inaccuracies in it. Another question for you, (even though you never answered my first question) If the facts in your post weren't wrong and everyone thought it was a good post and were saying things like "good post moderated, you da bomb" would you still admitted that it wasn't written by you?

If it was viewed in a positive light i would have taken credit for it and basked in the instant board cred.

well at least hes honest

 

[thayman]

As a Packer fan I'm embarrased by this thread.

I'm glad to see not all Packer fans are as stupid as the original poster.Hey moderated, How many times is Favre on your superbowl QB rating list? Elway is on it 5 times. That just might come into plaqy as to why his name gets mentioned amongst the all time great QB's. Favre is a great QB too. There are many ways to argue that Favre is better than Elway. There are many ways to argue that Elway is better than Favre. You didn't manage to find a good argument either way. Your post is basically garbage and proves absolutely nothing. You lose a lot of credibility when you talk about a TD play when it wasn't even a TD. You also mentioned a TD run by Elway that should have gone to Terrell Davis. If you are talking about the TD at the end of the first half, then you are wrong again. That play, Davis had taken himself out of the game because of a migraine headache that left him with a temorary loss of vision. Shanahan talked him into going back into the game to act as a decoy saying that he didn't need to be able to see because if he was in the game, the Packer's defense would think he was going to get the ball. Elway then faked the handoff to Davis, the defense bit on the fake, and Elway rolls out for the TD run. Question for you moderated, did you even watch that superbowl game?

As was mentioned by someone else, that game was 10 years ago. Get over it, and welcome to the 21st century.

Only problem is that i didn't write it.Here is the guy i copied it from, enjoy. Make sure to leave nasty remarks in his comments section.

Elway, Super Bowl Choker

Instead of nasty remarks I would rather let him know that someone is plagerising[sp] is material.