When a nefarious individual who has crossed the line numerous times is the clear-cut choice by a major political party to run for President again I think there is great reason for the media, the few Republicans with courage like Cheney and Kinzinger, and Democrats to focus on Trump. That NBC poll now shows the number one thing voters are thinking about are "threats to our democracy". (I fall into that group) Yes an argument could be made a few think the search warrant at Mar-A-Lago and the FBI are also a threat but betting that is the slim minority.
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Amused to Death
Footballguy
I wonder if any of them were about the Afghanistan withdrawal.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
on a separate note I get SO sick of hearing that line because that's an opinion and point of view and its used to stir up hate and division ....
Appreciate the answer. Thanks.
moleculo
Footballguy
I assume that's because you don't believe that Trump is an actual threat to democracy. I think this is an interesting discussion but probably not for this thread.
I don't know that it's an opinion. The guy actually supported and conspired in undermining the democratic process of our election.
Ruffrodys05
IBL Representative
There is only ONE person keeping DJT in the daily news and that is DJT himself. HIS actions, HIS grifting, HIS incompetence, HIS inability to go away peacefully. EVERY piece of daily news has been the product of DJT. Period. He wouldn't be in the daily news if he acted honorably during and since his presidency.
Amused to Death
Footballguy
The execution of the warrant wouldn't have been in the news if Trump didn't make it public. HE was one who went to the media, not the FBI.
moleculo
Footballguy
technically, it was a Florida politics blogger who broke the news initially, acting on a tip from another Florida politician (unnamed), and confirmed from an unnamed source in Mar-a-Lago.
roadkill1292
Footballguy
If indeed Democrats are keeping Trump news front and center purposefully, it's a rare effective strategy from them. A plurality of voters now list the preservation of democracy as their top issue.
This has to be pretty annoying to red state legislatures, who would much prefer that their 2024 plans not be getting so much public attention.
This has to be pretty annoying to red state legislatures, who would much prefer that their 2024 plans not be getting so much public attention.
timschochet
Footballguy
One of the silliest accusations by Trump supporters is that the mainstream media is out to get Trump. Unlike many of us who would simply prefer if Donald Trump went away, the MSM wants him front and center. They would love it if he got re-elected. Trump is that very rare political figure who is ratings gold. He attracts viewers. This has been consistently true since he began his campaign 7 years ago.
Sand
Footballguy
Oh, they hate him - visceral hate. It's obvious. Right now, though, they are just reporting what the FBI is leaking. This seems to be a common tactic - prosecution in the public square by leak. It's not fitting of a great institution like the FBI in any political climate.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
mainstream media is by far liberal leaning
Democrats/left wanted Trump out at any cost from day one of election
so no, its not an accusation at all, its reality
Amused to Death
Footballguy
Whatever you think of the media, it doesn't change what Trump did or what he had illegally at MAL. The media may love demonizing him, but he gives them the fodder.
Who leaked the search to begin with?
Sand
Footballguy
If memory serves I don't think CNN, et. al. were on site when that started, so no one. Unlike the Roger Stone arrest in which there was definitely a tip off. The current NYT article concerning 300 documents was definitely leaked, though, given the language in the article.
Godsbrother
Footballguy
Democrats? certainly.
I don't buy that mainstream media has been out to get Trump. They basically report whatever the story is and the media played a big role in Trump winning the 2016 GOP nomination. If it wasn't for the media Trump would have been out of the race early. Since then Trump has been controversial and hasn't stop being controversial. In fact, he does it on purpose.
As far as the leaks go I can guarantee you that much of it is coming from Trump camp so he can play the victim card. He does this repeatedly and exceedingly well. Nothing is his fault: it's the Democrats, the FBI, the DOJ, RINOS, the media, etc. Trump is just a swell guy that is constantly picked on.
Coach Beard
Footballguy
How many extra crimes are you allowed to commit if you successfully argue in court that the media is out to get you?
roadkill1292
Footballguy
Sometimes it's hard for me to square the conflicting conservative beliefs of being a persecuted minority while still claiming to represent "mainstream" America. I guess you need the former to rationalize seizing and controlling minority power.
And you also have to believe that the majority of the electorate has been brainwashed for decades because they're too stupid to see the good in traditional values. That's also hard to reconcile when MAGA politicians frequently appear to be the dumbest animals on the planet.
moleculo
Footballguy
It's easy - the part you are missing is that "mainstream" Americans are persecuted not because they are a minority but because they are a majority. It's a small minority of people who scream the loudest and push values that the "mainstream" majority doesn't want.
It's the Silent Majority theme, popularized by Nixon. looking at the wiki on the phrase, I'm reminded that the more things change, the more they stay the same:
Dickies
Footballguy
Right wing media has been using this language dating at least back to the Obama days. Don't recall the Trump presidency being a 'regime' though.
roadkill1292
Footballguy
As the Bulwark piece noted, regimes must ultimately be toppled. It's just another term used to grease the skids for an undemocratic takeover.
HippieJuice
Footballguy
Bwahahahahe needs those to write his memoirsanyone have a NY times account that can post this? All I can see is 150 in January, and 150+ now.
Trump Had More Than 300 Classified Documents at Mar-a-Lago (Published 2022)
The National Archives found more than 150 sensitive documents when it got a first batch of material from the former president in January, helping to explain the Justice Department’s urgent response.www.nytimes.com
Peter Strzok
@petestrzok
Number of marked classified documents recovered from Donald Trump? More than 300.
And the warrant wouldn't have been executed if he simply would have turned them over when they were subpoenaed in the first place.
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HippieJuice
Footballguy
In short, Trump stole highly classified top secret national security documents and refused to give them back for 18 months even when they sent the head of counter intelligence (who was the only person with clearance to transport the information).
Trump knew what was in the boxes because it’s reported he went through them and kept at least one box in his office.
—
A Special Master goes through documents to decide what is privileged before turning the information over to the prosecution. That ship sailed as he should have asked for it prior, not after.
Occam's Razor tells us Trump was trying to sell or use the information for other nefarious purposes.
And again we see the great hypocrisy on the right who endlessly screamed and attack Hillary (Lock her up!) for being careless with her server but actually complied with the FBI and was found innocent. It shows they don’t care about national security and Trump **** all over the concept for over 5 years now.
His followers are tribal authoritarians who don’t care about issues, just belonging.
Trump knew what was in the boxes because it’s reported he went through them and kept at least one box in his office.
—
A Special Master goes through documents to decide what is privileged before turning the information over to the prosecution. That ship sailed as he should have asked for it prior, not after.
Occam's Razor tells us Trump was trying to sell or use the information for other nefarious purposes.
And again we see the great hypocrisy on the right who endlessly screamed and attack Hillary (Lock her up!) for being careless with her server but actually complied with the FBI and was found innocent. It shows they don’t care about national security and Trump **** all over the concept for over 5 years now.
His followers are tribal authoritarians who don’t care about issues, just belonging.
It’s amazing how desensitized Trump has made everyone. Every day there’s a story that may be the biggest scandal in the country’s history. The guy takes hundreds of classified documents and stashes them in a storage room off the pool of his resort.
Government agency comes and picks up a bunch of records he wasn’t supposed to take home. A few month later they come back with someone with the highest clearances because they know that you didn’t give them everything and what’s left might be of the highest classification. Two of his main lawyers sign that he gave them all classified information. Which we now know is false make them either deeply in trouble or witnesses against Trump.
Then they come back with a warrant to find everything he won’t give up voluntarily and they find a lot. Some of the worst items were found in his office along with his own personal items. And they still don’t think they got everything.
He’s a criminal and not even a good one. He can’t get a good lawyer and even the idiots he has left won’t fully sign onto the ramblings he put out today.
One of the more intense theories I’ve read is that it ties into Saudi Arabia, MBS, the Khashoggi murder and the plan to share nuclear technology that Flynn had been pushing. Khashoggi was working on a story exposing this plan which led to his murder. Trump and Jared helped cover it up and then Trump stole everything including the nuclear information and MBS intercepts tying him to the murder. Jared was given the $2B and Trump was given who knows what for their role.
Government agency comes and picks up a bunch of records he wasn’t supposed to take home. A few month later they come back with someone with the highest clearances because they know that you didn’t give them everything and what’s left might be of the highest classification. Two of his main lawyers sign that he gave them all classified information. Which we now know is false make them either deeply in trouble or witnesses against Trump.
Then they come back with a warrant to find everything he won’t give up voluntarily and they find a lot. Some of the worst items were found in his office along with his own personal items. And they still don’t think they got everything.
He’s a criminal and not even a good one. He can’t get a good lawyer and even the idiots he has left won’t fully sign onto the ramblings he put out today.
One of the more intense theories I’ve read is that it ties into Saudi Arabia, MBS, the Khashoggi murder and the plan to share nuclear technology that Flynn had been pushing. Khashoggi was working on a story exposing this plan which led to his murder. Trump and Jared helped cover it up and then Trump stole everything including the nuclear information and MBS intercepts tying him to the murder. Jared was given the $2B and Trump was given who knows what for their role.
jamny
Footballguy
While Trump is the one to make it public, do you really think it would have remained unknown had he not announced it? It wouldn't have been in the news?
Amused to Death
Footballguy
If Trump had complied with the multiple requests to return the documents he stole, the media wouldn't have had anything to report.
But yes, it would have leaked at some point and the media would have correctly made it a big story. But Trump loves playing the victim too.
Coach Beard
Footballguy
The motivations of all the involved parties makes sense. Where I’m skeptical is the competency levels of all the involved parties don’t seem to be high enough to pull off the job. But now that we’ve learned how much TS/SCI content was at Mar-A-Lago and was there for months while all DOJ did was ask “could you pretty please return the classified information you stole?” I might be overestimating how hard it would be for an unethical President to pull this off.
I’ve also upgraded the chances of someone pulling off the Declaration Of Independence heist from National Treasure to just a 30/70 underdog.
HippieJuice
Footballguy
It’s been repeated quite a bit, but the actual charges have nothing to do with classified documents. The documents belong to the people in the national archives. Also, regardless you can’t keep and mishandle national security secrets. The DOJ specifically chose to avoid the whole classification argument in the charging docs and Trump knows this, but his base doesn’t, so he lies to them.
Trump is turning this into another money grifting scheme with reports up to a million per day rolling in. He will never miss an opportunity to run a good con.
This one might put him jail though.
Sand
Footballguy
You were doing good until you hit this part.
HippieJuice
Footballguy
My bet is it will include information on his Marshall Plan to sell nukes to the people who flew jets into twin towers, but who knows what other grifting cons he was running.
We could spend months discussing all his cons that just deal with foreign entities from money laundering in casinos and real estate to selling nukes to the Saudis. I mean, if you will steal from a kids cancer charity nothing is sacred, eh?
Dickies
Footballguy
So that something like this would happen, he can play the victim, and use his victimhood to fundraise.
Zegras11
Footballguy
Because he knew that it doesn't matter if they were classified or not. I've seen several interviews where people each said he was explained in detail several times how this all works while in office.
And he still chose to think he was above it all. Just Trump being the extreme narcissist that he is. He doesn't know any other way to be.
Apparently it's overreacting when we get concerned about selecting alternate ( fake electors) in states you didn't win, or calling Georgia's Secretary of State asking for 11,480 votes more that you didn't have, or watching the very people you summoned threatening to hang our Vice President and doing nothing for 187 minutes. How in the world could anyone be concerned about that?
Zow
Footballguy
Agree completely here. These are effectively my takeaways as well after read the motion.
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SWC
Bromigo
there is zero chance it wouldnt have come out anyhow take that to the bank brohan
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Same problem (for Trump) as above.
moleculo
Footballguy
put differently, he can't claim executive privilege because he isn't the executive?
Zegras11
Footballguy
and he already knew from the letter I posted this morning that his claim of privilege had been rejected.
By contrast, the National Archives and Records Administration is part of the executive branch.
joffer
Footballguy
Maybe you law-talkin guys can clarify. Is this the equivalent of “WTF did I just read?”
Philo Beddoe
Footballguy
The media wasn’t out to get him? Why do you guys do this? It’s almost like the internet doesn’t exist.
Politico April 2016 before he was even the nominee
Could Trump Be Impeached Shortly After He Takes Office?
WaPo January 2017
The campaign to impeach President Trump has begun
Time Magazine January 2017
There’s Already a Campaign to Impeach President Donald Trump
Vanity Fair December 2016 guy wasn’t even sworn in yet.
Democrats Are Paving the Way to Impeach Donald Trump
I could spend an hour on posting these stories.
Politico April 2016 before he was even the nominee
Could Trump Be Impeached Shortly After He Takes Office?
WaPo January 2017
The campaign to impeach President Trump has begun
Time Magazine January 2017
There’s Already a Campaign to Impeach President Donald Trump
Vanity Fair December 2016 guy wasn’t even sworn in yet.
Democrats Are Paving the Way to Impeach Donald Trump
I could spend an hour on posting these stories.
Great --similar could be pulled for Obama only he didn't do anything impeachable
Besides, this whole hording classified docs is all Trumps doing and has nothing to do with your post.
joffer
Footballguy
More than one possible reason why this is true
