What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

Is Tom Brady the greatest quarterback EVER? (1 Viewer)

Well?

  • Yes

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • No

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    0
Its too early to tell. He's had a TREMENDOUS start, and if hey were to duplicate his first 7 years for the next 7... do you think there would be any ?

 
Last edited by a moderator:
bryhamm said:
Simple yes/no answer.
Click to expand...
The simple answer is maybe but not yet. Favre has a leg up in the longevity categories and Montana has the post-season cache but Brady has the time and situation to make up ground on both. This post-season could give him a huge boost.
 
VonRomig said:
Best O-Line, yes.

Any QB behind that line would look great.

Von
Click to expand...
We hear this supporting cast argument alot. But don't good organizations pick good players? Pioli and Belichick picked all of those great o-linemen, wide receivers, and defensive players that many like to say makes Brady better than he is, but why can't we consider that maybe Brady too is a great player the Pats selected? Why is he measured differently than his teammates?Anyway, I just think it's no coincidence that many of the great quarterbacks played for great organizations and we shouldn't marginalize them because of the skill of their supporting cast.

 
valhallan said:
Anyway, I just think it's no coincidence that many of the great quarterbacks played for great organizations and we shouldn't marginalize them because of the skill of their supporting cast.
Click to expand...
Why not? It's clear that supporting cast has a HUGE impact on how a QB is perceived. Archie Manning is considered by many to be the best QB to ever play for a terrible franchise. He had sub-7 ypa and 48 more INTs than TDs. Jake Plummer threw 24 more INTs than TDs in his six years in Arizona... and 24 more TDs than INTs in his four years in Denver. From 1983 to 1992, John Elway was a rather inefficient passer. Prior to the 1993 season, he gets a HoF left tackle, and in the next few seasons he gets some decent receivers and a running game, and all of a sudden the top 6 passer ratings of his entire career all come within his final six seasons. Heck, look at Tom Brady himself. Last year, he has no wide receivers. Result? 6.8 ypa, 24 TDs, 87.9 passer rating. This year, the only change on his offense is that he gets some stud receivers, and all of a sudden he magically transforms into a 50 TD, 4800 yard, 117 rating passer. Looks to me like his supporting cast was worth about 25 scores and 30 points of passer rating. That's the difference between "no receivers" and "Moss/Welker/Stallworth". You add 30 points to a scrub's passer rating, and suddenly he's one of the better QBs in the league. You add 30 points to an already great QB's passer rating, and suddenly he's the greatest QB to ever play. That's what kind of impact supporting cast can have.
 
SSOG said:
valhallan said:
Anyway, I just think it's no coincidence that many of the great quarterbacks played for great organizations and we shouldn't marginalize them because of the skill of their supporting cast.
Click to expand...
Why not? It's clear that supporting cast has a HUGE impact on how a QB is perceived. Archie Manning is considered by many to be the best QB to ever play for a terrible franchise. He had sub-7 ypa and 48 more INTs than TDs. Jake Plummer threw 24 more INTs than TDs in his six years in Arizona... and 24 more TDs than INTs in his four years in Denver. From 1983 to 1992, John Elway was a rather inefficient passer. Prior to the 1993 season, he gets a HoF left tackle, and in the next few seasons he gets some decent receivers and a running game, and all of a sudden the top 6 passer ratings of his entire career all come within his final six seasons. Heck, look at Tom Brady himself. Last year, he has no wide receivers. Result? 6.8 ypa, 24 TDs, 87.9 passer rating. This year, the only change on his offense is that he gets some stud receivers, and all of a sudden he magically transforms into a 50 TD, 4800 yard, 117 rating passer. Looks to me like his supporting cast was worth about 25 scores and 30 points of passer rating. That's the difference between "no receivers" and "Moss/Welker/Stallworth". You add 30 points to a scrub's passer rating, and suddenly he's one of the better QBs in the league. You add 30 points to an already great QB's passer rating, and suddenly he's the greatest QB to ever play. That's what kind of impact supporting cast can have.
Click to expand...
:)
 
TBIST said:
Nope. He's the second best active quarterback though.
Click to expand...
You are forgetting Peyton Manning. Some would consider Brady the third best active QB. Myself, I give him the nod over Manning, but not by much. At this point, with all that Favre has done, I think it is absurd to consider him at Favre's level. Brady has benefitted from great coaching in addition to the supporting cast. I rank Belicheat as the greatest coach I have ever seen (never saw Lombardi). Favre had to struggle through the Sherman and Rhodes years. And lets never forget that he only beat Peyton Manning's single season TD record by running up scores, cheating, and playing specifically for the records. When talking about the greatest QB, I think you have to consider leadership and character. Favre and Manning both blow Brady away in those categories.
 
Perfect Tommy said:
TBIST said:
Nope. He's the second best active quarterback though.
Click to expand...
You are forgetting Peyton Manning. Some would consider Brady the third best active QB. Myself, I give him the nod over Manning, but not by much. At this point, with all that Favre has done, I think it is absurd to consider him at Favre's level. Brady has benefitted from great coaching in addition to the supporting cast. I rank Belicheat as the greatest coach I have ever seen (never saw Lombardi). Favre had to struggle through the Sherman and Rhodes years. And lets never forget that he only beat Peyton Manning's single season TD record by running up scores, cheating, and playing specifically for the records.

When talking about the greatest QB, I think you have to consider leadership and character. Favre and Manning both blow Brady away in those categories.
Click to expand...
Yup...Brady has really suffered in both the leadership and character categories. :)
 
bryhamm said:
Road Warriors said:
bryhamm said:
Road Warriors said:
Its too early to tell. He's had a TREMENDOUS start, and if hey were to duplicate his first 7 years for the next 7... do you think there would be any ?
Click to expand...
Nope, if he does that, then he is
Click to expand...
can i call premature polling???
Click to expand...
:) there are some claiming he is RIGHT NOW
Click to expand...
http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...t&p=8035231It's disingenuous of you to act like other people are claiming he's the best ever right now. The people who disagreed with you were disagreeing with your claim that "he's not even close". That's significantly different from your yes/no poll, and the implication that there are several people in the thread claiming that he is the best ever right now.

That said, I thought Montana was the best ever. And even before this season, Brady was crushing just about every statistical accomplishment Montana ever had through the same number of years. Now Brady just came off a better season than anything Montana did, and while Brady had Randy Moss, it turns out Montana got to work with a pretty good receiver, too. And with Brady going for a Montana-tying fourth Superbowl, it would be completely reasonable at the end of this season for someone to say that Brady's shorter career had equalled Montana's in their eyes.

For me, I agree with you and some of the other posters that I'd like to see a little more longevity before throwing around terms like best ever. But he's in the conversation. The only people making ridiculous claims are the ones who claim that Manning is somehow ahead of Brady, but in the same breath downplay Brady's statistical accomplishments this year because of the quality of receivers he enjoyed. Brady's statistical accomplishments prior to this year with below average receivers are almost as impressive as the fact that he had a better year than anyone's best year ever in the history of the NFL as soon as he got receivers.

 
bryhamm said:
Simple yes/no answer.
Click to expand...
YEShe absolutely is the greatest QB ever,if they win it all this year.4 SBs in what 6 years, plus an undefeated season?

lifetime comp percentage of 63% ( to this point anyway)...most TD's in a single season..

2007's comp percentage of 68.9%, QB rating 117.2, WHILE tossing 50tds and just 8 ints..the greatest 16-game season ever by a QB.

won 2 SB's on the last drive of the game.

won 3 SB's with NO NAME wr's

for all that Peyton is, he's played alongside Marvin,Reg Wayne, Clark, Edge,Addai, Bradshaw has the Steelers' D to bail him out after an int, plus Stallworth, Swann, Franco, etc..

Montana had Rice, Taylor, Dwight Clark, Roger Craig, etc..

Young had Rice, Ricky Watters, et al.

Elway had Terrell Davis, Shannon Sharpe, Rod Smith..

Brady had Troy Brown, Deion Branch, David Patten, Antowain Smith, Patrick Pass, Kevin Faulk, Corey Dillon.

NOT ONE SINGLE player Brady has had on offense ( WR, RB, TE) will be a hall of famer, except Moss and maybe Larry Centers( played for NE in 2003)..

there is absolutely NO comparison to any other QB NOT named Otto Graham. All Brady does is win the big games

with mediocre talent around him..

this year you're finally seeing a brief example of what Brady WOULD have done , had there been a Jerry Rice, Lynn Swann, John Taylor, Reg Wayne, Marvin Harrison, Shannon Sharpe, Rod Smith, Roger Craig,playing in NE

 
Tanner9919 said:
bryhamm said:
Simple yes/no answer.
Click to expand...
there is absolutely NO comparison to any other QB NOT named Otto Graham. All Brady does is win the big gameswith mediocre talent around him..

this year you're finally seeing a brief example of what Brady WOULD have done , had there been a Jerry Rice, Lynn Swann, John Taylor, Reg Wayne, Marvin Harrison, Shannon Sharpe, Rod Smith, Roger Craig,playing in NE
Click to expand...
It appears the only talent you're concerned with are WRs and RBs. Thankfully, there's more than those 3-5 players on the field. He's never played behind a mediocre OL or for a mediocre coaching staff. That makes a difference. I won't say he is right now, but he's in the discussion the same way Bo Jackson is in the discussion for all time great RBs.

 
FUBAR said:
Tanner9919 said:
bryhamm said:
Simple yes/no answer.
Click to expand...
there is absolutely NO comparison to any other QB NOT named Otto Graham. All Brady does is win the big gameswith mediocre talent around him..

this year you're finally seeing a brief example of what Brady WOULD have done , had there been a Jerry Rice, Lynn Swann, John Taylor, Reg Wayne, Marvin Harrison, Shannon Sharpe, Rod Smith, Roger Craig,playing in NE
Click to expand...
It appears the only talent you're concerned with are WRs and RBs. Thankfully, there's more than those 3-5 players on the field. He's never played behind a mediocre OL or for a mediocre coaching staff. That makes a difference. I won't say he is right now, but he's in the discussion the same way Bo Jackson is in the discussion for all time great RBs.
Click to expand...
None of the other QBs in the discussion ever played behind a mediocre OL, either. You're correct that QB stats are driven by team dynamics, but Brady's first 6 years stats are good to great, with less than sellar skill position talent, and in year 7, in his first year with elite talent, Brady breaks records.

I'm in the "not yet" camp when it comes to all time QBs, but when the argument falls to surrounding talent, Brady has done quite well with lesser talent and excelled with elite talent.

 
im not even a brady fan but i'll give credit where credit is due... before this season he has won superbowl's with the troy browns and reche caldwells... he hasn't always had studs...

 
Its worth mentioning here that someone else brought this question up in the NE/Jax game thread, "Is Tom Brady the best Q ever", and the OP said, "not even close". Not even close. Huh, Not Even Close? Who's he not even close to??? Cmon, you made yourself laugh with that one. Admit it.

Now, there's probably no need to even ask the question to begin with. After all, this season is far from over not to mention the rest of Brady's career. But let's atleast recognize of the 5 or so guys on the short list of all time greats at the position, Brady's at least close to them.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
twitch said:
Its worth mentioning here that someone else brought this question up in the NE/Jax game thread, "Is Tom Brady the best Q ever", and the OP said, "not even close". Not even close. Huh, Not Even Close? Who's he not even close to??? Cmon, you made yourself laugh with that one. Admit it.

Now, there's probably no need to even ask the question to begin with. After all, this season is far from over not to mention the rest of Brady's career. But let's atleast recognize of the 5 or so guys on the short list of all time greats at the position, Brady's at least close to them.
Click to expand...
IMO, the issue here is that there are so many ways to evaluate what "best ever" means. Is it best stats? Is it most wins? Is it most SB titles? Is it gettin gthe farthest with the weakest amount of supporting talent?So which is better of the following options . . .

400 passing yards and 3 TD in a 42-17 regular season win

300 passing yards and 3 TD in a 31-28 playoff loss

200 passing yards and a TD in a 20-7 regular season win but 250/2 in a playoff win to go along with it

No matter what, people will always point to all the other reasons the Pats won. The tuck rule. The defense. The refs not making calls. The weakness of the competition. The Moss factor (Moss can make any QB a star).

The bottom line for Brady is that he has led his team to many post season wins and shows up when it matters. IMO, he at least is worthy of getting into the best ever discussion . . . along with plenty of other QBs.

 
SSOG said:
You add 30 points to an already great QB's passer rating, and suddenly he's the greatest QB to ever play. That's what kind of impact supporting cast can have.
Click to expand...
This might make sense if there weren't already a lot of people claiming that Brady could be the best ever BEFORE this year.
 
Perfect Tommy said:
And lets never forget that he only beat Peyton Manning's single season TD record by running up scores, cheating, and playing specifically for the records.
Click to expand...
How exactly did Brady cheat?
When talking about the greatest QB, I think you have to consider leadership and character. Favre and Manning both blow Brady away in those categories.
Click to expand...
:thumbdown: Brady has every bit as much character and leadership as those other two.
 
Mikey16x said:
lol "good to great"... people are so hard on him... how about great to elite.
Click to expand...
stats, not results or level of play. His stats ( prior to this year ) range from 3500 - 4000 yds passing, 24-28 TDs, and I don't feel like looking up QB ratings, but ( i believe ) nothing in the top 10 prior to this year. I'd call his single season 4000 yard passing elite, but his TD totals have never screamed elite. None of this has anything to do with Brady's ability as a QB or his likely place among the all time greats, but rather has to do with offensive scheme, having one of the better short yardage RBs ( Dillon ) for a couple of years, being held in check by the coaching staff during his early years, and the quality of the skill players around him.

I think Brady is the best we've seen, but I'm a fan that understands the other side arguments and am willing to let his career play out before "knowing" hes the best ever.

 
Mikey16x said:
im not even a brady fan but i'll give credit where credit is due... before this season he has won superbowl's with the troy browns and reche caldwells... he hasn't always had studs...
Click to expand...
For the record, he never won anything with Reche Caldwell except a trip to an AFC Championship game.
 
Personally, I think stating emphatically that one player is the best at anything is fun yet futile. But I had to laugh at those that came in here and argued that Brady doesn't belong in the discussion just because they don't like the guy.

 
I don't feel like looking up QB ratings, but ( i believe ) nothing in the top 10 prior to this year.
Click to expand...
Brady has been in the Top 10 in passer rating EVERY year since he became the starter . . . 6, 9, 10, 9, 6, 9, 1. He ranks 3rd among active QB behind Manning and Warner and 4th all time (Young is #1).Although I will be the first to say that I am not a huge fan of passer rating as a metric to compare QB from different eras.
 
David Yudkin said:
I don't feel like looking up QB ratings, but ( i believe ) nothing in the top 10 prior to this year.
Click to expand...
Brady has been in the Top 10 in passer rating EVERY year since he became the starter . . . 6, 9, 10, 9, 6, 9, 1. He ranks 3rd among active QB behind Manning and Warner and 4th all time (Young is #1).Although I will be the first to say that I am not a huge fan of passer rating as a metric to compare QB from different eras.
Click to expand...
oops. Thanks for the correction. I really need to be a bit less lazy on these posts. :thumbdown:
 
As I was saying, 16 of the career Top 20 QB in passer rating are current players, so there is definitely a bias to the recent crop of QB.

 
For a short career, I think he is in the top five already based on accomplishments. He is only getting better.

Why don't you match up the numbers based on career years right now? How was Farve at this point in his career? Manning? Montana? Young?

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Brady has won 3 SB's in 7 years or so that he's been playing. In that time he has had FAR less talent around him than the likes of Marino, Montana and Elway. All these QB's had great O lines just like Brady but the RB's and WR's were alot better than the likes of troy brown, reche caldwell, deion branch and givens. Its not even close. Throw in that in this era its very tough to do this with FA. This isnt your dads Joe montana 49ers when all the good players stayed on that team until they retired or when management deemed it time to get rid of them due to age.

No other qb is called "Love" like Brady. That reason alone puts him as the best.

GB Brady "Love" :goodposting:

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I never thought so until this year.

Now Brady is playing at a totally different level. Another SuperBowl win and yes..Tom Brady will go down as the best QB in NFL history.

 
Perfect Tommy said:
TBIST said:
Nope. He's the second best active quarterback though.
Click to expand...
You are forgetting Peyton Manning. Some would consider Brady the third best active QB. Myself, I give him the nod over Manning, but not by much. At this point, with all that Favre has done, I think it is absurd to consider him at Favre's level. Brady has benefitted from great coaching in addition to the supporting cast. I rank Belicheat as the greatest coach I have ever seen (never saw Lombardi). Favre had to struggle through the Sherman and Rhodes years. And lets never forget that he only beat Peyton Manning's single season TD record by running up scores, cheating, and playing specifically for the records. When talking about the greatest QB, I think you have to consider leadership and character. Favre and Manning both blow Brady away in those categories.
Click to expand...
Easily, the knucklehead post of this thread.
 
twitch said:
Perfect Tommy said:
TBIST said:
Nope. He's the second best active quarterback though.
Click to expand...
You are forgetting Peyton Manning. Some would consider Brady the third best active QB. Myself, I give him the nod over Manning, but not by much. At this point, with all that Favre has done, I think it is absurd to consider him at Favre's level. Brady has benefitted from great coaching in addition to the supporting cast. I rank Belicheat as the greatest coach I have ever seen (never saw Lombardi). Favre had to struggle through the Sherman and Rhodes years. And lets never forget that he only beat Peyton Manning's single season TD record by running up scores, cheating, and playing specifically for the records. When talking about the greatest QB, I think you have to consider leadership and character. Favre and Manning both blow Brady away in those categories.
Click to expand...
Easily, the knucklehead post of this thread.
Click to expand...
It's WAY too early to hand out this award yet. This post was really bad, but someone out there will probably be inspired to outdue it.
 
Despyzer said:
twitch said:
Perfect Tommy said:
TBIST said:
Nope. He's the second best active quarterback though.
Click to expand...
You are forgetting Peyton Manning. Some would consider Brady the third best active QB. Myself, I give him the nod over Manning, but not by much. At this point, with all that Favre has done, I think it is absurd to consider him at Favre's level. Brady has benefitted from great coaching in addition to the supporting cast. I rank Belicheat as the greatest coach I have ever seen (never saw Lombardi). Favre had to struggle through the Sherman and Rhodes years. And lets never forget that he only beat Peyton Manning's single season TD record by running up scores, cheating, and playing specifically for the records. When talking about the greatest QB, I think you have to consider leadership and character. Favre and Manning both blow Brady away in those categories.
Click to expand...
Easily, the knucklehead post of this thread.
Click to expand...
It's WAY too early to hand out this award yet. This post was really bad, but someone out there will probably be inspired to outdue it.
Click to expand...
point taken, but for the record, Ive called in the engraver and he's on standby.
 
When talking about the greatest QB, I think you have to consider leadership and character. Favre and Manning both blow Brady away in those categories.
Click to expand...
"I'm trying to be a good teammate here but lets just say we had protection problems.""This isn't basketball. I cant play both ways. All we can do as an offense is try and score points."
 
Last edited by a moderator:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

abrunn1133
Coaching is so Overrated in Pro Sports
Replies
38
Views
1K
Hot Sauce Guy
Hot Sauce Guy
Joe Bryant
Old Timers - How did you talk about Tom Brady in the 2nd round of the playoffs in 2001 season?
2
Replies
96
Views
2K
ChicoCat
C
Soulfly3
Not undervalued - The most disrespected player is?
2 3
Replies
115
Views
2K
BobbyLayne
BobbyLayne

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 2 (members: 0, guests: 2)
Top