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Is Deangelo Williams a perfect buy-low? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Parkers99
- Start date
shadyridr
Footballguy
moving the ball on offense certainly aint one of them
id say one of the biggest problems is their inability to construct and effective running game. im not sure that the remedy is to rely on such an impotent attack.
I guess my point is that the running game (both stud OL and RB's) has proven in the past that it is not impotent. The current coaching staff has somehow turned it into that. They're simply chucking it all over the field right now with no balance and strategery in the run/pass ratio.
Shutout
Footballguy
Weren't they missing their best o-lineman last week? Maybe they thought going in that they would not be able to run and planned to do a lot of screens and such to negate the pass rush.
That's just a guess but seems reasonable but even if it is accurate, I don't know how to explain how the two backs didn't get more of a time share. It really seemed like they favored Stewart.
Is it possible that DWIL is just quickly losing a step? The ypc vs. Stewart seems to say he is less effective and I've never kept up with DWIL that much but I am thinking he has had more than one ankle or leg type injuries that have cost him most of the season. Maybe at age 28 he is slowing down. It would seem a little early but he did have a massive workload in college.
That's just a guess but seems reasonable but even if it is accurate, I don't know how to explain how the two backs didn't get more of a time share. It really seemed like they favored Stewart.
Is it possible that DWIL is just quickly losing a step? The ypc vs. Stewart seems to say he is less effective and I've never kept up with DWIL that much but I am thinking he has had more than one ankle or leg type injuries that have cost him most of the season. Maybe at age 28 he is slowing down. It would seem a little early but he did have a massive workload in college.
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Reepicheep
Footballguy
Yep. They were up 13-0 at home on the champs. You've got to be able to control the clock and play keepaway in a situtation like that. Instead, in the 2nd and 3rd quarters they held the ball for 8:51 total and went Punt, Int, Punt, Int, Fumble, Int, while the Packers were busy scoring 23 unanswered points. The running game has to become more of a factor if they want to win games. Very nearly half (225 of 475) of Carolina's yards on the day came in the 4th quarter when they were trying to dig themselves out the two-score hole the turnovers put them in.(Edited to correct yardage)
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Grahamburn
Footballguy
For all the drooling over Cam Newton his mistakes seem to have been ignored. The Panthers aren't going to win if they only give DeAngelo 5 carries. It's asinine to assume otherwise. The coaching staff has to know this.
urbanhack
Fight The Power!
I see you are still in denial.LOL
urbanhack
Fight The Power!
But take away his 10 best runs.
Actually the most explosive offenses in the last several years have all been extreme passing teams.Green BayNew EnglandSan DiegoIndianapolisPhiladelphiaNew OrleansThrow throw and throw some more is absolutely a viable strategy -- if you've got the QB to make it work.(Granted the exact runShow me a winning team near their current rushingassing ratio
ass ratios might not be what Carolina's is now, but that's in a small sample size.)Bold...it isn't really close. Yes, it is a small sample size, which is why I am arguing that CAR is likely going to start running the ball a little bit more if they want to win. CAR is currently rushing with their RBs 27% of the time. The past 3 years, New England ran it at 44%, 41%, and 45%. Philly is the only team remotely close at 34%, 35%, and 37%.Actually the most explosive offenses in the last several years have all been extreme passing teams.Green BayShow me a winning team near their current rushing
New England
San Diego
Indianapolis
Philadelphia
New Orleans
Throw throw and throw some more is absolutely a viable strategy -- if you've got the QB to make it work.
(Granted the exact run
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
Pretty small sample size this season to say D-Will is losing a step. They guy hasn't had any opportunities.
anicholsnj
Footballguy
Someone offered me d-will if I give up Daniel Thomas. He has Reggie bush and is a dolphins fan... I have blount, tolbert, DMC, And ingram also. My first instinct is to reject that trade or at least wait a week or two. Any thoughts...?
RamMan
Footballguy
I wish someone would offer me Thomas for DWill. I'd hit the "accept" button and never look back. Thomas will be a usable RB#3. Can't say I have the same confidence in DWill right now.
I love D-will as a player and his is immensely more talented than Thomas. However, this is fantasy football and I'd insta-decline that offer in every format.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
I picked D-Will in the 3rd round of a 10 team, 4 person keeper PPR. I'm starting to a bit concerned that the main reason he got the money he got was to satisfy the new CBA rules. He's not being used as it is and to compound the problem he doesnt appear to be the 3rd down guy OR the GL guy....that's not good. At this point it may be better to buy Stewart then it would be to buy D-Will.
JMO
JMO
tombonneau
Footballguy
I own DW in one league and Stew in the other and agree with this. I took DW as a RB3 when he fell bc of his accursed value, and am already regretting it. Thought with the contract they'd play him, but you might be right it was just to satisfy the CBA. Haven't been able to watch any games, so can't comment on how he looks. For sake of this thread, I'd be thrilled if someone tried to buy low on DW from me. I'm terrified I need to start him now that Charles is out. Will likely consider starting Delone Carter over him in a few weeks, just to give you some more insight into my expectations re: DW
When DWill re-signed with the Panthers, the talk was that the team had promised to feature more sets with both him and JStew on the field at the same time. With a raw rookie QB, everyone assumed they would heavily feature the run, and perhaps use the wildcat quite a bit with both backs involved. The last thing anyone expected was this- immediately asking the rookie QB to chuck the ball almost every down, while abandoning the run completely (and in close games), and keeping their highest paid player on the sidelines for much of the game.
I know DWill isn't the kind of guy to publicly complain, but I'd sure like to see him grumble a bit about being almost entirely ignored the last game (and down the stretch in week 1). Why would a team covet a player so much, try so hard to keep him on the team, wildly overpay him, and then treat him as if they don't even think he's the best RB on the team?
I really could use DWill now, with Foster (and no Tate), Hillis, McGahee and Alex Green as my other options. At this point, he's really not a viable starter for one week, even in a nice matchup situation. The vultures in one league are circling, as I was offered Deion Branch straight up for DWill today. I can't see giving him away for older, mediocre stuff like that, but he's just taking up space on my roster right now.
I just find it hard to believe that no one in the local Carolina media has commented on this situation.
I know DWill isn't the kind of guy to publicly complain, but I'd sure like to see him grumble a bit about being almost entirely ignored the last game (and down the stretch in week 1). Why would a team covet a player so much, try so hard to keep him on the team, wildly overpay him, and then treat him as if they don't even think he's the best RB on the team?
I really could use DWill now, with Foster (and no Tate), Hillis, McGahee and Alex Green as my other options. At this point, he's really not a viable starter for one week, even in a nice matchup situation. The vultures in one league are circling, as I was offered Deion Branch straight up for DWill today. I can't see giving him away for older, mediocre stuff like that, but he's just taking up space on my roster right now.
I just find it hard to believe that no one in the local Carolina media has commented on this situation.
Deamon
Footballguy
Who is the more startable bak in non ppr though? I have both, wondering if stew or dwill is better play.
Grahamburn
Footballguy
You're 0-2, Ron.
VaTerp
Footballguy
That's taking the quote a lil out of context. When you look at the entire quote it's not bad at all.“It’s about the rhythm and flow of the game,” Rivera said. “I’d be concerned if we weren’t throwing for about 400 yards a game. I really would be, but since we’re converting and making plays downfield and throwing the ball it’s just a matter of time. It’s going to happen and when it does it should pop. When it does the run game will be solid. I just know it’s a matter of time.”
I am still trying to get DeAngelo in both of my leagues though I'm not willing to give up nearly as much as I would have a week or two ago. I have Stewart in one of those leagues and for my sake, I hope he continues to be utilized more in the passing game and redzone.
Call me crazy but I still think the Carolina running game will eventually come around. Two weeks does not a season make.
Grahamburn
Footballguy
The rook has turned it over 4 times, they blew a 13 point lead against the champs, and now the team is 0-2. Ron, you might want to get your head out of your rear.
Buy DeAngelo now.
Buy DeAngelo now.
Ghost of Bill Walsh
Footballguy
12 team money league. I have Jahvid Best, Snelling(ugh) and just lost Jamaal Charles. I also have DeAngelo on my roster but no one seems to want to trade for him or give up any RB with potential. I tried getting Roy Helu & Daniel Thomas for him and got shut down on both. Can't blame them with Williams current state.My best option now is to just hold on to him and hope the Panthers start running the ball. If not I'm dead in the water and Williams wil be useless.
Megatron Bombs
Footballguy
Chris Liss at RotoWire still believes...
"Buy low on DeAngelo Williams(notes) – the environment is a big upgrade, he’s healthy and they didn’t give him all that money not to use him."
East Coast Offense
"Buy low on DeAngelo Williams(notes) – the environment is a big upgrade, he’s healthy and they didn’t give him all that money not to use him."
East Coast Offense
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GreenNGold
Footballguy
New England.Show me a winning team near their current rushing
northwoods
Footballguy
A guy in one of my 8 teamers dropped him to pick up Thomas Jones this week...
Needless to say I'll be putting in a claim for him.n He's worth a stash to see if they turn things around.
Needless to say I'll be putting in a claim for him.n He's worth a stash to see if they turn things around.
Scroll above to post #168. You aren't even close.New England.Show me a winning team near their current rushing
I just bought DWill for Helu and a 2nd next year in a Dynasty league. My initial thoughts were the same as everyone else here. They didn't sign him to a 5 year $43 million contract not to give him carries, and they will have to learn that when you are up by 2 scores, RUN THE BALL!
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Yeah, that's not a good quote.I don't think things get better for Williams or Stewart running-wise.Does anyone REALLY think that Newton's carries will decrease? I think that's the real threat to Williams and Stewart's numbers, more so than the insistence on passing. Newton in 2 games: 18 carries, 2 TD's.
Shutout
Footballguy
I think that is a pretty lazy blanket statement as a reason. I would rather see some real REASONS why it isn't working but will in the future and therefore justify the statement. I can think of lots of guys that got paid BIG BIG money and the team planned to use them but it just didn't work out (Haynesworth, Russell, Roy Williams, etc).From what I recall, the talk when the big push was made to resign DWIL (and other Panthers) was that the owner was feeling the fan backlash from letting Julius Peppers go and then see him have such a great season and DWIl is very popular with the fanbase so he was determined to not lose him and Charles Johnson. That, to me, just sounds like a case of throwing good money after bad or compounding the mistake if the player just simply isn't worth it.
So now the case, to me, is for someone to give a good assessment of "Is DWIL still good enough"? What does less than 3 yards per carry say? Has he lost a step? Has he been a back that has needed 20+ catches to be productive? People have said he needs more than 5 carries a game. That is true with anyone you want to feature but if 5/13 translates into 20/52-65~, the Panthers can't afford TO give that many touches to him.
GreenNGold
Footballguy
It looks pretty close to me: Carolina: 83 pass attempts, 48 runsNew England: 88 pass attempts, 47 runsScroll above to post #168. You aren't even close.New England.Show me a winning team near their current rushing
:good posting: signppl itt got it backwards. they arent losing bc of the passing game. its been efficient and explosive. they are losing bc the running game sucks and they have faced tough competition.
The argument isn't if you want win 1-2 games by having an offense greatly skewed towards passing attempts. Certainly there are hundreds of cases where a team threw 50 times and won. The Patriots have pretty consistently been in the low-to-mid 40% range of rushing attempts for their RBs.Additionally, the numbers you posted have QB rushes included, and while a few of these will be designed QB-runs, most of these are pass plays that end up as scrambles.It looks pretty close to me: Carolina: 83 pass attempts, 48 runsNew England: 88 pass attempts, 47 runsScroll above to post #168. You aren't even close.New England.Show me a winning team near their current rushing
Apple Jack
Footballguy
I didn't see either game, but I just assume coaches stuff the box on rookie QBs to rattle them, which is obviously going to make it more difficult to run. Can the RB stats be attributable to that? And obviously, teams are going to start respecting the passing game more and focusing more on coverage, which should create a little space. Can somebody who has watched the games speak to that? I'm considering making an offer for DW.
VaTerp
Footballguy
Again that's not the entire quote.“It’s about the rhythm and flow of the game,” Rivera said. “I’d be concerned if we weren’t throwing for about 400 yards a game. I really would be, but since we’re converting and making plays downfield and throwing the ball it’s just a matter of time. It’s going to happen and when it does it should pop. When it does the run game will be solid. I just know it’s a matter of time.”
And how many of Newton's runs are designed vs called plays?
The Carolina running game will come around. Patience...
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Megatron Bombs
Footballguy
I live in N.C and own both Williams and Stewart, so I've watched the Panthers game closely. There's consistently been 8 in the box as the defensive game plans have challenged Newton to throw. That being said, the Panthers have not run blocked well at all. Neither RB has had many gaps created to work. In the Arizona game, Williams was hit in the backfield on 8 of his first 9 attempts. Stewart was more effective as he's the more physical runner but his YPC was poor as well. Otah did not perform up to his usual standards and then suffered a concussion.I think better days are ahead for the run game, but I'm wondering now if Williams, for fantasy purposes, will wind up more as a #3 level RB. I drafted Williams thinking his 2009 numbers were the baseline.'Apple Jack said:
strong
Footballguy
the panthers stunk last year. they were projected to win 1 or 2 games this year. they were within a yard of winning game 1 and went toe to toe with the defending champs. i'd say their ownership is very pleased that this team is showing signs of life, and i doubt they want their coach to change a single thing.
sharptongued1
Footballguy
They had a halftime lead against the Cardinals and were leading going into the 4th quarter. They were up by 10 points early in the first quarter against Green Bay and had the lead at halftime. They were within a touchdown until late in the 4th quarter.
Where in there were they down so much that they felt the need to throw to get back into the game?
realize this swings both ways. by leaning heavily on the passing game they were able to far overperform expectations and nearly win when they were huge dogs.
