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Indefinite New England Patriots Thread (2 Viewers)

Anarchy99 said:
As I've stated several times, BB has a fixation for drafting guys that are hurt or previously were injured that fell in the draft. That's happened so many times now that it's a given that one or two draft picks won't make it much past two seasons with the team before they determine they can't get on the field.
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This.  Economics degree shining through.  If a random draft pick has a percentage X that he will be productive and healthy, and a distressed price draft pick has a percentage X-Y that he will be productive and healthy, it becomes difficult to compare the relative success of the guy who drafts X type players versus the guy who drafts X-Y type players unless you use a macro comparison like, say, super bowl victories or super bowl appearances or division titles, etc.  See also distressed price player acquisitions (Moss, Dillon, etc.).  The propositions don't always pay out but the economic value added is self-evident.

 
SeniorVBDStudent said:
This.  Economics degree shining through.  If a random draft pick has a percentage X that he will be productive and healthy, and a distressed price draft pick has a percentage X-Y that he will be productive and healthy, it becomes difficult to compare the relative success of the guy who drafts X type players versus the guy who drafts X-Y type players unless you use a macro comparison like, say, super bowl victories or super bowl appearances or division titles, etc.  See also distressed price player acquisitions (Moss, Dillon, etc.).  The propositions don't always pay out but the economic value added is self-evident.
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It's clear as day what their model is and clearly their accomplishments speak for themselves. Their goal is to get $300 million in player market value on the roster but only shelling out $177 million to stay under the salary cap. We've all seen how they do it. Bring in damaged goods, get guys in the draft that had question marks, paying under market value, getting players to stick around at a steep discount, developing late round or undrafted players, etc. I posted earlier in the thread about how much their recent players signed for on new deals elsewhere. 10 guys signed for a combined $550 million I think it was.

Also discussed several times in several threads, in today's NFL most teams have very limited windows because they had the benefit of several down years with a lot of top draft picks. Then they hit on a couple of players . . . a QB, a DE, a LB, a WR, a RB and they are very good for a few years. But then they have to pay everyone and they can't afford to. So that window of being a really good team will probably last 3-5 years.

I haven't looked at drafts in the past decade plus, but I am guessing the elite players and potential HOFers are predominately drafted in the Top 5-10 picks each year. Sure, there are some outliers (Russell Wilson, Antonio Brown, Richard Sherman, as examples), but most of the great players are early picks or top half of the first round picks. Most of the player pool had been picked over each time the Pats had to pick going back years and years.

 
I think the Pats are going to run a TON of 2 TE sets with Hollister as a move-TE matchup nightmare.  I'm seriously starting to think he's a low end TE1 this season.

 
I actually think the Patriots have quietly amassed a really good, fast LB core with Dont'a Hightower at OLB, Elandon Roberts & maybe Bentley at ILB, and Rivers at OLB as their pass rush specialist. Christian Sam's flashed a little as well.

I'm really looking forward to Eric Lee's progress at DE. He flashed a lot last year and I expect him to take a big step forward, possibly challenging 7+ Sacks if given a full season.

 
Workhorse said:
I think the Pats are going to run a TON of 2 TE sets with Hollister as a move-TE matchup nightmare.  I'm seriously starting to think he's a low end TE1 this season.
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I was thinking they might go the other direction and work their RB corps by land, sea , and air. If they put White and Burkhead as receivers or in motion with Michel in the backfield (assuming they all can walk upright at the same time), defenses would lose their minds.

 
Bossman said:
Watching Randy Moss be entered into the HOF ... gave loads of credit to NE, made me think;

Is Dez Bryant watching this? Is there's a chance that Dez would consider playing at a discount ... for the opportunity to have TB as his QB ... potentially getting the best stats of his life and giving him his best chance at a ring? (ala Moss)

Wouldn't put it past BB to go get him after Dez lingers as a free agent long enough for his price to lower.

With Decker not likely to contribute much, Dez would fill a MAJOR void in NE's offense.
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Doesn't seem so far fetched now with Britt gone too.

I'm now hearing some of the local radio media speculating about room for Dez under the NE salary cap.

Seems I was just a couple weeks ahead of the curve.

Dez would obviously still have to be willing to play at a discount. BB isn't paying him diva WR money.

The longer Dez goes without a contract, the less his price tag will be. Going into pre-season week 4 he may be starting to get nervous.

 
Bossman said:
Doesn't seem so far fetched now with Britt gone too.

I'm now hearing some of the local radio media speculating about room for Dez under the NE salary cap.

Seems I was just a couple weeks ahead of the curve.

Dez would obviously still have to be willing to play at a discount. BB isn't paying him diva WR money.

The longer Dez goes without a contract, the less his price tag will be. Going into pre-season week 4 he may be starting to get nervous.
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I have not seen anyone remotely affiliated with the team saying there is any interest in Dez. None. Zip. Zero. Nada. Leaving the money out of it, the issue apparently is he doesn't fit the system and what he was asked to do is way different and not as complex as what he would be asked to do in NE. Add in the steep learning curve, that he would be way down on the list for targets, and he may not be the best clubhouse guy. Folks have pointed to Ocho Cinco as a prime example of taking a guy that only played in one system and not being a good fit in NE. Bryant hasn't been the same the past couple of seasons, his skills may have eroded, and he has not gotten much separation. The majority of places I have seen / read feel it is a hard no on Dez.

Remember that NE traded their draft pick to Dallas that was used to select Dez. I don't think they have ever wanted anything to do with him. Really don't see Dez as a Patriot. 

 
I don't think Dez could make it in the Pats offense. Theyd have to on offense do what they did on defence for Gillmore and dumb his role down to a point where hes a role player that only does one thing.

I dont see it happening unless he wants to play for nothing.

 
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So who has some insight on which, if any, NE WRs will hold any fantasy value this year? Outside of Gronk, Hogan & Edelman, of course.

 
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I see Hogan as their 1b behind Gronks 1a, that said Jules will still out target him imo. But Hogan if he keeps going in the wr3 range is a hell of a steal.

When Hogan was healthy last season he was a wr1.

 
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NeverEnough said:
So who has some insight on which, if any, NE WRs will hold any fantasy value this year? Outside of Gronk & Edelman, of course.
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James White in PPR ... and Dez Bryant 

.

Did anyone think Moss was a fit for NE? With his superior football IQ? (if you say yes you're a liar).

Be honest... he was shown the door in MIN and was a malcontent in OAK. His effort level was at a 3 and his numbers were not good.

To the point OAK was happy to dump him for a 4th rd pick.

Most of us saw him as an immature and selfish player.  "Straight cash homie" if I do recall.

Because Dez has only played in one system, that means he couldn't play in another? How can we know if he has never been in another system?

Not saying Dez is another Moss but we just don't know how he would fit and what kind mileage they could get out of him. Just like they didn't know if 85 would or wouldn't fit.

If NE can get Dez at a discount, worse case scenario, he doesn't fit and they move on after one season.  Not so far fetched imo.

but even if BB would entertain the idea ... not sure Dez would be willing to give a discount.

 
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Bossman said:
James White in PPR ... and Dez Bryant 

.

Did anyone think Moss was a fit for NE? With his superior football IQ? (if you say yes you're a liar).

Be honest... he was shown the door in MIN and was a malcontent in OAK. His effort level was at a 3 and his numbers were not good.

To the point OAK was happy to dump him for a 4th rd pick.

Most of us saw him as an immature and selfish player.  "Straight cash homie" if I do recall.

Because Dez has only played in one system, that means he couldn't play in another? How can we know if he has never been in another system?

Not saying Dez is another Moss but we just don't know how he would fit and what kind mileage they could get out of him. Just like they didn't know if 85 would or wouldn't fit.

If NE can get Dez at a discount, worse case scenario, he doesn't fit and they move on after one season.  Not so far fetched imo.

but even if BB would entertain the idea ... not sure Dez would be willing to give a discount.
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NE already said they don't want Dez...

 
NeverEnough said:
NE already said they don't want Dez...
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... and thankfully NE is always open about who and what they want and don't want. 

This is simply a ploy to drive down the cost. Do you expect them to announce that they're "very interested"?

Other teams would certainly take notice .... and Dez' agents head goes off like a pinball machine. $$$

Ever buy a used car? You never go in telling the salesman (agent in this case) how much you love it. The exact opposite "meh, not my color". You must learn how the game is played grasshopper. Heck, the more NE claims they don't want him, the more I think it's a done deal.

NE needs a WR ... Dez needs a team. Just a matter of time. Give it another week or so. No more than 10 days and you can put a bow on it. 

 
NeverEnough said:
So who has some insight on which, if any, NE WRs will hold any fantasy value this year? Outside of Gronk & Edelman, of course.
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Hogan has real fantasy value. Probably a WR2 in most leagues, borderline WR1 while Edelman is out. Combining his 8 games to start the season last year and the 6 playoff games in 2017 and 2018, Hogan totaled 59-922-9 in 14 games. That production would have been  WR10 if projected over a full season last year.

Dorsett might be a best ball option in deeper league, but I have yet to see him be consistent enough or get enough targets to be a legit every week fantasy option.
Patterson is probably a gadget guy or situational guy who should primarily be a kick returner.
Decker hasn't looked good in his limited time with NE. Too many drops. He's probably best served as roster depth in deeper leagues or a waiver claim target later in the year if he can stay healthy and looks like he has absorbed the offense.
IMO, Dez is not signing in NE, so I would not draft Bryant thinking he will be a Patriot.

 
Seems like with Edelman out and possibly not up to full speed for a while there is real room for either Hollister or Patterson to carve out an Aaron Henandez like mismatch role as the 3/4 option.

I like either one as late round flyers.

 
Hollister looked really good last preseason and at times last season. He could definitely find his way into a fantasy relevant role but i think its much more likely he is a depth TE as opposed to the 2nd TE sharing the field

 
Bossman said:
... and thankfully NE is always open about who and what they want and don't want. 

This is simply a ploy to drive down the cost. Do you expect them to announce that they're "very interested"?

Other teams would certainly take notice .... and Dez' agents head goes off like a pinball machine. $$$

Ever buy a used car? You never go in telling the salesman (agent in this case) how much you love it. The exact opposite "meh, not my color". You must learn how the game is played grasshopper. Heck, the more NE claims they don't want him, the more I think it's a done deal.

NE needs a WR ... Dez needs a team. Just a matter of time. Give it another week or so. No more than 10 days and you can put a bow on it. 
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The reason why people are saying Dez is not a fit is just like Ocho, he never had to run dynamic routes that require instant decision making and multiple options to read on the same play. In Dallas, he ran routes as called . . . no adjustments, no in-play break offs based on coverage, etc. Essentially, all he ran was the play as called. The Patriots play book is so hard to grasp because all they do are adjustments off of adjustments.

They have roughly $8 million in cap room left. THe only way I think they would internally even entertain Dez coming in would be for close to the league veteran minimum. And that would probably be with no guaranteed money and after Week 1 when contracts become week to week and full salaries aren't guaranteed. Then thye truly have nothing to risk and if he doesn't work out they cut him. But I don't really think they want him, and more importantly, BB may not think that they need him.

A WR group with Edelman-Hogan-Decker-Dorsett-Patterson is probably better than many other years in NE, better than the 2001-2006 era and the 2013-2015 era. If Bill doesn't like what he sees down the stretch heading into the season, IMO, NE would be more likely to make a trade than sign Dez.

They also have White and Burkhead as receiving threats and if Michel makes it back he could probably do ok out of the backfield as a receiving threat.

 
I'm realizing that I should read more. Seems I'm not the only one suggesting Dez to NE might work.

I googled Dez Patriots and found this little story from 2 days ago;

Bryant-Desperate-Patriots

from the article:

Fast-forward to this week, and Bryant is waving the New England Patriots pom-poms on social media, saying quarterback Tom Brady “has always been my favorite player” and gushing over the strategic mind of coach Bill Belichick, which he called “1 in a million.”

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and another;

NE should make run at Dez

not sure how old this is. Who doesn't put a date on their article? Maybe this guy gets credit for starting the clamoring instead of me.

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and another article;

Why NE Should Sign Dez

Mostly just saying NE should do it because Skip Bayless said they shouldn't

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and this one;

Rob Ryan on Dez to NE

former DC for DAL claims it would be a good fit. Not that his opinion matters.

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One of these (I forget which) makes note of the fact that Jules will miss the first 4 games leaving only Hogan, Dorsett, Decker, & Patterson

I understand most of this is local media trying to get clicks ... but it's still fun to speculate.

 
Toss out the first 4 games.  At that point the pecking order is Gronk / Edelman / Hogan / RB / 5th target.  5th target MAY be Hollister depending on success of 2TE sets.

So, now choose one of Dorsett, Decker, Patterson, or Dez Bryant for 5th or 6th in the pecking order.

Now factor in the Dez has a systematically low catch percentage.

Now factor in that he has no experience running option routes.

Now factor in that he needs a one year prove it deal.

Now factor in the fact that he's a complete tool.

Why did NE never call TO when they did call Moss, Dillon and Ocho?  This is not hard to figure out.

NE knows who Dez is.  He's the narcassist d-wad who called Tony Romo a racist for throwing the ball more to Jason Whitten.  He is Terrell Owens.  Only far less talented. 

 
SeniorVBDStudent said:
Toss out the first 4 games.  At that point the pecking order is Gronk / Edelman / Hogan / RB / 5th target.  5th target MAY be Hollister depending on success of 2TE sets.

So, now choose one of Dorsett, Decker, Patterson, or Dez Bryant for 5th or 6th in the pecking order.
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Even if Hollister somehow ended up as the 5th best option, that isn't exactly much in terms of fantasy production. Since Brady returned from his ACL injury in 2009, the player with the 5th most receptions for NE averaged 32 catches a season with a high of 40.

I would guess once Edelman comes back, the pecking order in terms of receptions will be Edelman, Gronk, White, Hogan, Burkhead, and whoever becomes the 3rd receiver (maybe Decker, as I don't think Dorsett and Brady are on the same page and I am not sure Dorsett really gets the offense). IMO, Allen will see way more snaps than Hollister (even if Allen has stone hands) as they love Allen as a blocker. Maybe that leaves 20-25 receptions for Hollister . . . maybe. All that will change once the injuries start rolling in, but with everyone healthy at the same time I think Hollister is just another player on the roster.

 
Last nights game;

- Went into last nights game pretty excited. "dress rehearsal" game ...  we get to see the real deal on both sides of the ball.

- Thinking Gronk would open things up on offense compared to the feeble showing the starters had last week vs PHI.

- Was also looking forward to seeing the NE front 5 on defense continue their 8 sack assault from last week. Nothing I like better than seeing Cam Newton on his #### pouting like a school girl. Should get to him at LEAST 3 times this game.

What I saw was none of that. Defense could not get off the field ... AGAIN. CAR starts the game with a 10 min drive (that litterally took 30 mins).

Cam standing back there like a statue, completing passes all over the field.

Pats starting offense, with Gronkowski, answer with a 3 and out.

The rest of the game didn't get any better. CAR continued to move the ball effectively. The couple of times NE DID collapse the pocket, Cam just rolled out TO HIS THROWING SIDE RIGHT, (no containment) and completes an easy throw and catch.

The few times NE offense was able to move the ball, seemed like they were bailed out by CAR penalties.

NE was unproductive on 1st and 2nd downs. Could not run the ball. (Gillislee looked horrible. I can't see him making the team) 3rd and long was a theme. Just not efficient like we're use to seeing. Despite their high effort level, they just didn't seem to have an answer.

Silver lining; Dorsett looked like he's finally got it. Safe bet he's in Edlemans slot position the first 4 games.

I know it's pre-season and we're not supposed to read too much into it ... but from what I saw last nigh, this NE team is in for a rough season.

I will not be shocked when HOU beats them week one.

This NE team will struggle to get to 10-6 this year (11-5 if lucky) and unfortunately will be on the road early in the playoffs.

Chances to make the SB not as good as they have been the recent years imo.

 
Bossman said:
Last nights game;

- Went into last nights game pretty excited. "dress rehearsal" game ...  we get to see the real deal on both sides of the ball.

- Thinking Gronk would open things up on offense compared to the feeble showing the starters had last week vs PHI.

- Was also looking forward to seeing the NE front 5 on defense continue their 8 sack assault from last week. Nothing I like better than seeing Cam Newton on his #### pouting like a school girl. Should get to him at LEAST 3 times this game.

What I saw was none of that. Defense could not get off the field ... AGAIN. CAR starts the game with a 10 min drive (that litterally took 30 mins).

Cam standing back there like a statue, completing passes all over the field.

Pats starting offense, with Gronkowski, answer with a 3 and out.

The rest of the game didn't get any better. CAR continued to move the ball effectively. The couple of times NE DID collapse the pocket, Cam just rolled out TO HIS THROWING SIDE RIGHT, (no containment) and completes an easy throw and catch.

The few times NE offense was able to move the ball, seemed like they were bailed out by CAR penalties.

NE was unproductive on 1st and 2nd downs. Could not run the ball. (Gillislee looked horrible. I can't see him making the team) 3rd and long was a theme. Just not efficient like we're use to seeing. Despite their high effort level, they just didn't seem to have an answer.

Silver lining; Dorsett looked like he's finally got it. Safe bet he's in Edlemans slot position the first 4 games.

I know it's pre-season and we're not supposed to read too much into it ... but from what I saw last nigh, this NE team is in for a rough season.

I will not be shocked when HOU beats them week one.

This NE team will struggle to get to 10-6 this year (11-5 if lucky) and unfortunately will be on the road early in the playoffs.

Chances to make the SB not as good as they have been the recent years imo.
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New England Patriots  3/1

Pittsburgh Steelers. 11/2

Houston Texans. 9/1

Jacksonville Jaguars. 9/1

Los Angeles Chargers. 9/1

Kansas City Chiefs. 10/1

Denver Broncos  14/1

Oakland Raiders. 14/1

 
Bossman said:
Last nights game;

- Went into last nights game pretty excited. "dress rehearsal" game ...  we get to see the real deal on both sides of the ball.

- Thinking Gronk would open things up on offense compared to the feeble showing the starters had last week vs PHI.

- Was also looking forward to seeing the NE front 5 on defense continue their 8 sack assault from last week. Nothing I like better than seeing Cam Newton on his #### pouting like a school girl. Should get to him at LEAST 3 times this game.

What I saw was none of that. Defense could not get off the field ... AGAIN. CAR starts the game with a 10 min drive (that litterally took 30 mins).

Cam standing back there like a statue, completing passes all over the field.

Pats starting offense, with Gronkowski, answer with a 3 and out.

The rest of the game didn't get any better. CAR continued to move the ball effectively. The couple of times NE DID collapse the pocket, Cam just rolled out TO HIS THROWING SIDE RIGHT, (no containment) and completes an easy throw and catch.

The few times NE offense was able to move the ball, seemed like they were bailed out by CAR penalties.

NE was unproductive on 1st and 2nd downs. Could not run the ball. (Gillislee looked horrible. I can't see him making the team) 3rd and long was a theme. Just not efficient like we're use to seeing. Despite their high effort level, they just didn't seem to have an answer.

Silver lining; Dorsett looked like he's finally got it. Safe bet he's in Edlemans slot position the first 4 games.

I know it's pre-season and we're not supposed to read too much into it ... but from what I saw last nigh, this NE team is in for a rough season.

I will not be shocked when HOU beats them week one.

This NE team will struggle to get to 10-6 this year (11-5 if lucky) and unfortunately will be on the road early in the playoffs.

Chances to make the SB not as good as they have been the recent years imo.
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LOL. Because historically the Patriots play their best football in August. If they looked dominant last night, would you have them going 15-1?

 
tempered by the fact that its pre-season and BB holds A LOT back....

- I did not like Mcaffree looking like he was running through swiss cheese, though we did "bow up" in the red zone.

- I did not like the frequency of negative yardage rushes by NE, though Hill and GIllieslee didn't look half bad (hope Hill is OK).

it looks like Dorsett and Patterson may be the WRs who make the cut.

 
SeniorVBDStudent said:
I saw this and read it, and my reaction was why do these "journalists" make stuff up randomly?  There's no basis in fact; its pure speculation....and further its dumb speculation because DT is owed more than 8million and the Pats have less than 8million in available cap.  If you're going to make stuff up, at least try to be good at it.
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I agree that it was nothing but speculation, but they could create more cap room in a lot of ways. Rework deals, extend people, cut people. Thomas is due $8.5 million this year. Spotrac has them with $8.33 million left in cap space. It's not like they couldn't make some moves to acquire him if they really wanted to.

 
Anarchy99 said:
I agree that it was nothing but speculation, but they could create more cap room in a lot of ways. Rework deals, extend people, cut people. Thomas is due $8.5 million this year. Spotrac has them with $8.33 million left in cap space. It's not like they couldn't make some moves to acquire him if they really wanted to.
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I understand.  For me its just the bolded part....I don't see the sense in the gymnastics required to add DT to the existing receiving corps....maybe if Edelman or Hogan were erased from the current picture I could see it but not as is.

 
SeniorVBDStudent said:
I understand.  For me its just the bolded part....I don't see the sense in the gymnastics required to add DT to the existing receiving corps....maybe if Edelman or Hogan were erased from the current picture I could see it but not as is.
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If I have learned anything about BB, it's that he doesn't care what anyone else thinks. If he is happy with their receivers, he won't care that people are reporting how weak their receivers are. I think they have plenty of options to throw to (even if they aren't WR). Still, a lot could change between now and opening day. We can probably get a better sense of how they think they are are receiver by what they do or don't do in the next couple of weeks.

 
Anarchy99 said:
LOL. Because historically the Patriots play their best football in August. If they looked dominant last night, would you have them going 15-1?
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Had they looked dominant last night (on both sides of the ball), we would have seen;

- O line creating holes for RB's to get to the 2nd level. At times, seemed like guys were tackled two steps after taking the handoff. 

- WR's & TE able to break of routes / make cuts to get separation from DB's. Seemed Brady didn't have too many options as everyone was usually covered.

- Gronk make a play. Seems he was open in the endzone and Brady didn't bother to look his way. Rob was invisible otherwise.

- Rivers / Clayborne get a sack or two. Even when Cam was out for a series, the backup QB for CAR ran around making plays. Even when the rush got there, he'd just squirt out and run away from them. Did NE even record one sack?

- LB's able to cover sideline to sideline on running plays when Guy and Shelton force the RB to bounce to the outside. McCaff was shredding them around the ends.

- #1 CB (Gilmore) able to stay with WR1 (Funchess) and not getting lost leaving him wide open down the middle of the field. Back shoulder throw, Gilmore had never looked for the ball.

yes, had I'd seen that last night, I'd have them at 14-2 again.

The quality of the team is trending downward. They made it to the SB last year, at home (gifted to them by PIT), thru some of the worst playoff teams available. And they struggled with JAX and the future HOFer Blake Bortles.

SB wasn't a display of superior offense by PHI ...  it was a culmination of how bad the NE D has deteriorated. 

What I'm seeing is the same flaws at DB and LB ... and the offense has taken a giant step backwards with the loss of Cooks, Amendola, Lewis.

I really hope I'm wrong, but I can only believe what my eyes are telling me. Somebody please give me some rose colored glasses.

 
Bossman said:
I really hope I'm wrong, but I can only believe what my eyes are telling me. Somebody please give me some rose colored glasses.
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The preseason means less than nothing. The Pats usually have a very poor September and then go into another gear. I am not going to waste much time and energy  on this. Gronk barely played, Burkhead didn't play, Michel didn't play, and they tried to get looks at guys that won't be focal points of the offense. This is why I generally don't bother watching preseason football. So many people come to false conclusions based on games that don't count for anything.

It would not shock me if they started the season 1-3 . . . and finished 12-4.

 
Bossman said:
The quality of the team is trending downward. They made it to the SB last year, at home (gifted to them by PIT), thru some of the worst playoff teams available. And they struggled with JAX and the future HOFer Blake Bortles.

SB wasn't a display of superior offense by PHI ...  it was a culmination of how bad the NE D has deteriorated. 

What I'm seeing is the same flaws at DB and LB ... and the offense has taken a giant step backwards with the loss of Cooks, Amendola, Lewis.

I really hope I'm wrong, but I can only believe what my eyes are telling me. Somebody please give me some rose colored glasses.
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It's not NE's fault they got TEN in the first round (that would be Andy Reid's fault).

Make fun of JAX if you want, they'll likely be back in the AFC championship game this year.

We agree the SB result was a result of deterioration of NE's defense, but what's left out of your narrative is that the deterioration was injury based.

You simply cannot draw the conclusions about DB, LB and offense that you have drawn from the preseason.  I see zero regression and I see improvement on defense.  Opinions vary.

There's no telling what will happen this year, but it's definitely odd that you're so pessimistic at this point in the process given prior results.

 
SeniorVBDStudent said:
It's not NE's fault they got TEN in the first round (that would be Andy Reid's fault).

Make fun of JAX if you want, they'll likely be back in the AFC championship game this year.

We agree the SB result was a result of deterioration of NE's defense, but what's left out of your narrative is that the deterioration was injury based.

You simply cannot draw the conclusions about DB, LB and offense that you have drawn from the preseason.  I see zero regression and I see improvement on defense.  Opinions vary.

There's no telling what will happen this year, but it's definitely odd that you're so pessimistic at this point in the process given prior results.
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I understand it's pre-season, teams aren't game planning. Playbook is only half open. etc. But understand that players are still giving 100% effort.

My pessimism wasn't just from these last 2 games. Pessimism began with JAX last year and has grown after the SB and these last 2 pre-season games.

I thought they would handle JAX with ease .. and never imagined PHI putting up the offensive numbers they did. Made me step back and take a better look.

Oh, and the Red Sox will lose in the first round of the playoffs when Sale gets no run support and loses 2-1, Porcello gets lit up, and Price craps his pants  ... again. So there's that.

Good thing we have the Celtics.

Ron Borges signing off

 
Radio is saying there is a rumor that the Pats are talking with the Lions about Golden Tate...Malcolm Brown would be part of the package...you never know about a veteran WR and the Pats but on the surface Tate would be an excellent fit for them...would really alter that unit...

 
Boston said:
Radio is saying there is a rumor that the Pats are talking with the Lions about Golden Tate...Malcolm Brown would be part of the package...you never know about a veteran WR and the Pats but on the surface Tate would be an excellent fit for them...would really alter that unit...
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I heard the same rumor, and just the fact that there is a rumor tells me it is very unlikely to be true. The Patriots just make trades, no notice, no rumors, no anything. They just happen.

 
Anarchy99 said:
I heard the same rumor, and just the fact that there is a rumor tells me it is very unlikely to be true. The Patriots just make trades, no notice, no rumors, no anything. They just happen.
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Agreed...although this does make some sense...Tate and Brown are both on the last year of their deals and Patricia knows Brown very well...with Golladay stepping up Detroit may want to use Tate to get another young piece or two on the defensive side of the ball...the rumor i heard also had Elandon Roberts involved...would not be surprised at all if the Pats do make a deal for a WR...they have plenty of picks next year if that is something they want to do...and if they don’t they are an injury or two away from having a potential disaster at that position...

 
Boston said:
Agreed...although this does make some sense...Tate and Brown are both on the last year of their deals and Patricia knows Brown very well...with Golladay stepping up Detroit may want to use Tate to get another young piece or two on the defensive side of the ball...the rumor i heard also had Elandon Roberts involved...would not be surprised at all if the Pats do make a deal for a WR...they have plenty of picks next year if that is something they want to do...and if they don’t they are an injury or two away from having a potential disaster at that position...
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Actually, I am not even sure it was a rumor. I believe it was Mike Reiss looking around the league to see if there were any trade targets and coming up with hypothetical trades that might be options that would work for both teams.

 
Decker cut / retired.

Has to be another plan at WR, no?

Really gonna make a SB run with Hogan, Edleman just off a knee, Dorsett, and C.Patterson?

absolutely zero depth at that position and it's just a matter of time before one or two of these guys get dinged.

Lucien? Berrios?? ... because that's who you're looking at getting regular playing time at some point this year.

When the team struggles ya'll can blame it on injury again. I'll blame it on lack of depth.

Maybe their defense is way better than they're letting on. They sure better be. That 5th rd LB gonna turn it around for them? or is the new D-coordinator gonna get more out of these guys than Patricia could?  

 
Bossman said:
Decker cut / retired.

Has to be another plan at WR, no?

Really gonna make a SB run with Hogan, Edleman just off a knee, Dorsett, and C.Patterson?

absolutely zero depth at that position and it's just a matter of time before one or two of these guys get dinged.

Lucien? Berrios?? ... because that's who you're looking at getting regular playing time at some point this year.

When the team struggles ya'll can blame it on injury again. I'll blame it on lack of depth.

Maybe their defense is way better than they're letting on. They sure better be. That 5th rd LB gonna turn it around for them? or is the new D-coordinator gonna get more out of these guys than Patricia could?  
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Who are you proposing they get?

 
Patriots have extra early round  picks next year and perhaps it's time to trade picks, perhaps along with a player, for a WR (Golden Tate?)

Pats have the following Day 1\Day 2 picks in '19

1st theirs

2nd theirs and Chi

3rd Det and two projected compensatory 

 
Between now and the weekend and then the week leading up to Opening Day will be pretty telling as far as the WR's go. If they make a trade for a decent name or sign a camp cut (or both), that should tell us BB is concerned over what he has for receivers. If they really only make a minor move (or don't make a move at all), then that should tell us BB is happy with what he has.

Also worth nothing is that NE moves their skill position players all over the field, so just because someone has a RB or TE designation will not prevent the team from using them out wide, in the slot, in motion, out of the backfield, etc. I happen to think they are not as concerned as the fan base and the media appear to be, but we will find out in the nezt 7-10 days.

 
Alex P Keaton said:
Who are you proposing they get?
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Anquan Boldin, Mohamed Sanu, Brandon LaFell, Dez Bryant, Golden Taint, Austin Carr, Jordy Nelson, Ryan Switzer

Any of these guys would be an upgrade over Lucien / Berrios.

A better question might be ... "why did they draft a RB in the 1st rd?". when there were so many other positions of need.

Not to mention the fact that his knee isn't right. Such a luxury pick as if the team is stacked. They have to be having major regrets right about now.

 
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