IDP targets based on scoring system (1 Viewer)

[dukezib]

I've read that "bigplay heavy" scoring systems means a sack/tackle ratio equal or above 4:1. It makes me think that, GENERALLY, some positions are favoured by "bigplay heavy" scoring systems and other positions fit better in "tackle heavy" systems, right? Or the athlete style of play matters more than position?

Which positional players do I target drafting in both systems?
PS.: Sorry if someplace have an article about this. I didn't find it.

 

[Gally]

Obviously in big play scoring leagues you want to target guys that get big plays as tackles are not as dominant.  So guys like Mack, Houston, V. Miller, are much more valuable.  Anybody that can put up 12+ sacks has significant value (rush OLB's). 

In tackle heavy leagues you want to target high tackle number LB's.  Guys like Kuechly & David (before Alexander).  You want guys that consistently put up 90+ solo tackles.  Those are the value plays.  Rush OLB's usually take a big hit in this scoring because sacks are just not as critical if you are putting up 2 solos and 1 sack instead of 8 solos. 

 

[dukezib]

Thanks, @Gally

 

[Louche]

It's important to study the details of the scoring system. There is no set standard for big play heavy or tackle heavy, so you really have to look at the details to find the quirk and tendency of each individual league.

For instance, is there a tiered scoring for tackles between the different positions? If there is no tiers then LBs will be the engine of your defense. But if there is tiered scoring, e.g. for solo tackles DL and DB score 2 pts whereas LBs score 1,5 pts, then that's going to make top safeties more important than what they normally would. Or if there is DT premium with 3.5 pts for DTs, 3 pts for DE, 2 pts for LB, 2,5 pts for DB, you'll want to make sure that you take care of your DL positions. Don't go overboard...it's a little like TE premium that it raises the value of ALL players at the position, so you shouldn't sell out to go buy that TE or DT, but you need to make sure that you don't neglect the position and get totally caught on the outside looking in.

You should also make sure that you look at both sack, sack yards, QB hits and TFL scoring, rather than just looking at sacks. TFL scoring can vary quite greatly between different leagues, from zero to 2,5 pts so you need to pay attention to that since a sack is typically going to lead to a TFL as well. Sacks result in a TFL unless the sack results in no loss of yardage or the sack forces the QB to fumble the ball. QB hits, typically 1 pt per hit, is also important to look at but it's not as common yet.

Other stats to keep an eye on are passes defensed (from 0 to 4 pts in my leagues), INTs (from 3 to 6 pts in my leagues), forced fumbles and recovered fumbles. But the main difference maker that should cause you to adapt your strategy is how the tackling is tiered and how the pass rush big play scoring is structured.

 

[Louche]

If you post the scoring system and position starting requirements (which is HUGELY important) it would be easier to post specific advice.

 

[matttyl]

If you post the scoring system and position starting requirements (which is HUGELY important) it would be easier to post specific advice.

10 team, 31 man rosters.  Start qb, rb, wr, wr, flex, flex, te, k, DL, DL, LB, LB, DB, DB

1 point tackle, .5 point for assisted tackle, 3 points for a sack or an INT (keep in mind a solo sack is both a solo tackle and a sack, so really 4 points in this system), 2 points for a forced fumble, fumble recovery, safety, or blocked kick, and 1 point for a pass defended.  1 point bonus at the 6th solo tackle, with another 2 points at the 10th solo tackle.  And the kicker - a 2 point bonus at the 2nd, another 3 points at the 3rd, and another 2 points at the 4th sack.  What that last point means, is that if you have a DL get you 3 solo sacks and nothing else, it's a 16 point game (3 points for the 3 tackles, 9 points for the 3 sacks [3 pts each], and two 2 point bonuses). 

Obviously you want the DLs who have a shot at 2+ sacks in a game - so I look for the oft sacked QBs, and try to get the sack leader of the opposing team a week or so before their game via waives if available, and pair them up beside JJ Watt (who I hope is back to form).  Any other suggestions for this format?

 

[dukezib]

If you post the scoring system and position starting requirements (which is HUGELY important) it would be easier to post specific advice.

My league scoring system do not takes position into account:

Assisted Tackles = 0.5 ; Solo Tackle = 1 ; Tackle for Loss = 1 ; Interception = 5 ; Sack = 4 ; Fumble Forced =3 ; Fumble Recovered = 2 ; Safety = 4 ; Defensive TD = 6 ; Defensive TD between 40 and 79 yards = +2 pts ; Defensive TD of 80 or more yds = +4 pts ; Kick Blocked (FG, XP, Punt) = 4 ; 2-pt Conversion Attempt Return = 2 

What's a TFL?

 

[Louche]

10 team, 31 man rosters.  Start qb, rb, wr, wr, flex, flex, te, k, DL, DL, LB, LB, DB, DB

1 point tackle, .5 point for assisted tackle, 3 points for a sack or an INT (keep in mind a solo sack is both a solo tackle and a sack, so really 4 points in this system), 2 points for a forced fumble, fumble recovery, safety, or blocked kick, and 1 point for a pass defended.  1 point bonus at the 6th solo tackle, with another 2 points at the 10th solo tackle.  And the kicker - a 2 point bonus at the 2nd, another 3 points at the 3rd, and another 2 points at the 4th sack.  What that last point means, is that if you have a DL get you 3 solo sacks and nothing else, it's a 16 point game (3 points for the 3 tackles, 9 points for the 3 sacks [3 pts each], and two 2 point bonuses). 

Obviously you want the DLs who have a shot at 2+ sacks in a game - so I look for the oft sacked QBs, and try to get the sack leader of the opposing team a week or so before their game via waives if available, and pair them up beside JJ Watt (who I hope is back to form).  Any other suggestions for this format?

First of all in that kind of league I would allocate pretty much all my draft capital on offense and I think you're spot on with your strategy. Chasing multiple sack games seem to be the way to go for your defense to matter with that scoring system. Benches are super thin so there has to be a ton of streamable players available, and like you say; QBs who get sacked a lot tend to get sacked a lot.

 

[Louche]

My league scoring system do not takes position into account:

Assisted Tackles = 0.5 ; Solo Tackle = 1 ; Tackle for Loss = 1 ; Interception = 5 ; Sack = 4 ; Fumble Forced =3 ; Fumble Recovered = 2 ; Safety = 4 ; Defensive TD = 6 ; Defensive TD between 40 and 79 yards = +2 pts ; Defensive TD of 80 or more yds = +4 pts ; Kick Blocked (FG, XP, Punt) = 4 ; 2-pt Conversion Attempt Return = 2 

What's a TFL?

Tackles For Loss.

What are your starting position requirements and the size of your rosters?

 

[dukezib]

Tackles For Loss.

What are your starting position requirements and the size of your rosters?

Sorry I forgot this info:
Starting roster: 1QB, 2RB, 2WR, 1TE, 1R/W/T, 1K, 3LB, 3DB, 3DL . Roster size: 36 (17 Starters, 19 Bench, +10 IR)

My league scoring system do not takes position into account:

Defensive TD = 6
Interception = 5
Sack; Safety; Kick Blocked (FG, XP, Punt) = 4
Fumble Forced =3
Fumble Recovered; 2-pt Conversion Attempt Return = 2
Solo Tackle; Tackle for Loss = 1
Assisted Tackles = 0.5
Bonus
Defensive TD between 40 and 79 yards = +2 pts
Defensive TD of 80 or more yds = +4 pts
 

What's a TFL?

 

[JoeSteeler]

 

What's a TFL?

Tackles For Loss

 

[matttyl]

Sorry I forgot this info:
Starting roster: 1QB, 2RB, 2WR, 1TE, 1R/W/T, 1K, 3LB, 3DB, 3DL . Roster size: 36 (17 Starters, 19 Bench, +10 IR)

League size?

And you can hold up to 10 injured players?!  We have one.

 

[Louche]

Sorry I forgot this info:
Starting roster: 1QB, 2RB, 2WR, 1TE, 1R/W/T, 1K, 3LB, 3DB, 3DL . Roster size: 36 (17 Starters, 19 Bench, +10 IR)

My league scoring system do not takes position into account:

Defensive TD = 6
Interception = 5
Sack; Safety; Kick Blocked (FG, XP, Punt) = 4
Fumble Forced =3
Fumble Recovered; 2-pt Conversion Attempt Return = 2
Solo Tackle; Tackle for Loss = 1
Assisted Tackles = 0.5
Bonus
Defensive TD between 40 and 79 yards = +2 pts
Defensive TD of 80 or more yds = +4 pts
 

What's a TFL?

Thanks, to me it's a pretty standard but light IDP scoring. The quirky part is the added bonus for long defensive TDs, but those are too difficult to predict so it's kind of a non-factor. So like with the previous poster I would advise you to focus mostly on offense, in particular RB since your starting position requirements is pushing value there. Whether or not you go for tacklers or sack artists comes mostly down to your personal preference with that scoring system. I would try to focus on ILB/MLB/WLBs and in-the-box safeties as I like a more consistent weekly production, but if you prefer more weekly variance you can throw some rush-OLBs in there and try to play the match-ups.

 

[dukezib]

League size?

And you can hold up to 10 injured players?!  We have one.

It's a 16-team league Non-PPR.
IR size: I found it very strange ... as some owners trading stratregy too. Inherited this team about a month ago. They're offline drafting now. 

 

[matttyl]

It's a 16-team league Non-PPR.
IR size: I found it very strange ... as some owners trading stratregy too. Inherited this team about a month ago. They're offline drafting now. 

Wow, a 16 teamer with 3 starting LBs, DLs and DBs.  That's 48 of each....each week.  Very different perspective than my league above - only 10 teams and only 2 of each (so only 20 each week). 

 

[dukezib]

Thanks, to me it's a pretty standard but light IDP scoring. The quirky part is the added bonus for long defensive TDs, but those are too difficult to predict so it's kind of a non-factor. So like with the previous poster I would advise you to focus mostly on offense, in particular RB since your starting position requirements is pushing value there. Whether or not you go for tacklers or sack artists comes mostly down to your personal preference with that scoring system. I would try to focus on ILB/MLB/WLBs and in-the-box safeties as I like a more consistent weekly production, but if you prefer more weekly variance you can throw some rush-OLBs in there and try to play the match-ups.

Thanks. I thought about the same: Target LB (primarily W) and S. But the draft picks are going so weird, that I decided to target immediate collaborators, in order to possibly get some "trade baits" for next years. I see some owners as capable of buying high even on a IDP who is producing for 2 or 3 games in a row. Also, based on my atrocious RB corps and the FAs available I decided to focus defense this year and target QB, RB next year.
QB: Brees, Rivers / RB: CJ Anderson, Latavius Murray, Tim Hightower, Kenyan Drake, Buck Allen

For now I've drafted. (Draft includes FAs): 
1.12: Corey Coleman (Dropped 2 days before draft (??). Passed on S.Perine and Kareem Hunt. Possibly a dumb move now, as Coleman, after my pick, is again with hamstring issues in the OTA)
2.12: Alvin Kamara
2.15: Jarrad Davis
3.12: Zach Cunningham
4.12: Jamal Adams
5.12: Budda Baker
...still going...
 

 

[dukezib]

Wow, a 16 teamer with 3 starting LBs, DLs and DBs.  That's 48 of each....each week.  Very different perspective than my league above - only 10 teams and only 2 of each (so only 20 each week). 

I think this is very, very deep and particularly don't like 16-team leagues. Takes focus off offense. But I saw as an opportunity to learn IDP and dynasty things.

 

[Louche]

I think this is very, very deep and particularly don't like 16-team leagues. Takes focus off offense. But I saw as an opportunity to learn IDP and dynasty things.

In my opinion if you're serious about IDP it has to be at least this deep. Anything lighter and it becomes an afterthought to offense since the streamable players on waivers makes it too easy to not spend any resources on defense. And when positions don't demand attention, when they don't really matter, they become boring. I'm in four leagues with 9 IDP starters, but the rest of my leagues are 11-13 IDP starters and 12, 14, 16 team leagues, even a 32 team league with single player copy and 11 IDP starters meaning that 352 defensive players are started every week...lol...I don't exactly recommend 32 team leagues with single player copy as it becomes very luck dependent in order to avoid injuries, it's a very different experience. But 12 and 14 team leagues with 11-13 defensive starters is perfect.

You're in an IDP forum so obviously you already care about becoming a better IDP player and the only way for you to really take advantage of those skills is to play in deeper leagues (and even better balanced leagues) where you will be rewarded for your time spent learning the nuances of IDP.

That being said I fully support any format that people enjoy, have at it, I just think that to really appreciate and enjoy IDP it has to be balanced against offense to the point where it forces you to invest in the defensive positions in order to win.

 

[dukezib]

...where you will be rewarded for your time spent learning the nuances of IDP....

That's exactly the point.

 

[dukezib]

Still available on the board:
DB: Josh Jones, Jabril Peppers, Obi Melifonwu
LB: Raekwon McMillan, Ukeme Eligwe, Tanner Vallejo
DL: Derek Rivers, Larry Ogunjobi, Taco Charlton, Takk McKinley, 
RB: Devante Mays, Elijah Hood, Brian Hill, TJ Logan
WR: Carlos Henderson, Chad Williams, 
QB: Kizer, Trubisky, Webb

 

[Louche]

Still available on the board:
DB: Josh Jones, Jabril Peppers, Obi Melifonwu
LB: Raekwon McMillan, Ukeme Eligwe, Tanner Vallejo
DL: Derek Rivers, Larry Ogunjobi, Taco Charlton, Takk McKinley, 
RB: Devante Mays, Elijah Hood, Brian Hill, TJ Logan
WR: Carlos Henderson, Chad Williams, 
QB: Kizer, Trubisky, Webb

I have them:

Henderson

Peppers

McMillan

Trubisky

Kizer

Obi

Maybe I'm a little low on Taco, Tak, Vallejo and Chad Williams, they might deserve to be higher. Jones, Eligwe, Rivers, Ogunjobi are guys I've been picking up in post-draft waivers, but your benches aren't that deep so I'm not sure if you should be going that deep.

 

[Louche]

As an additional note, since your rosters are relatively small compared to how many defensive starters you have (in the leagues I play the smallest roster size is 45 plus taxi squad and most of them are around 53-55 spots) I would recommend trying to draft players with high upside and early reveal. If you see players with a clearer path to playing time, go with that player over the player that has landed in a more clouded depth chart. During bye weeks you're going to struggle to hold those players that need a lot of time to develop. And milquetoast prospects with limited potential are not worth taking, go for the more risky high upside play when it comes to both position and character/injury concerns etc. Roster spots are a very valuable commodity.

 

[dukezib]

... I would recommend trying to draft players with high upside and early reveal...

For now I've drafted. (Draft includes FAs): 
1.12: Corey Coleman (Dropped 2 days before draft (??)
2.12: Alvin Kamara
2.15: Jarrad Davis
3.12: Zach Cunningham
4.12: Jamal Adams
5.12: Budda Baker
...still going...

Based on your tip, do you think I am doing well?

 

[Louche]

Based on your tip, do you think I am doing well?

Getting Coleman there is amazing, imo. Kamara at 2.12 is half a round later than where he typically goes.

As for the IDP picks I would love them if the scoring was more balanced. Considering that the IDP scoring is relatively light I'm not sure if that's plus value for you. But if there is one overriding draft strategy I have it is that I am much more concerned with drafting players I like, and players I feel I've researched well in terms of talent and team/role fit, rather than trying to make an accurate ranking of all players A-Z. I don't care about the players I don't draft, I care about hitting on the players I'm picking. And you've picked some exciting IDP pieces that I think will have a good hit rate, but I would advise you to (generally) look to offense first and defense second given your scoring setup.

 

[dukezib]

... But if there is one overriding draft strategy I have it is that I am much more concerned with drafting players I like, and players I feel I've researched well in terms of talent and team/role fit, rather than trying to make an accurate ranking of all players A-Z....

Thanks in advance.