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Evan Royster vs Roy Helu (1 Viewer)

sspunisher

sspunisher

Footballguy
Well let's get away from groupthink for a second and play devil's advocate for a bit. I can't shake this feeling of how much the Redskins backfield this year reminds me of the Texans backfield after the 2009 season ended. For those of us who draft early, Steve Slaton, Ryan Moats, and even Chris Brown might have been drafted ahead of Arian Foster in 2010.

Fast forward to 2012, Helu seems to be the consensus favorite and everyone's talking up the Hightower re-signing, but Royster was extremely impressive last year when given the opportunity. Here are the #s:

Helu:

151 ATT, 640 Yards, (4.2 Average), 2 TDs

49 Receptions, 379 Yards (7.7 Average)

Royster:

56 ATT, 328 Yards (5.9 Average), 0 TDs

9 Receptions, 68 Yards (7.6 Average)

If you take away that one anomaly where Helu had 17 catches vs the 49ers, we might be looking at these two guys a bit more evenly. Regardless, their averages are closer than you would expect.

 
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'sspunisher said:
Well let's get away from groupthink for a second and play devil's advocate for a bit. I can't shake this feeling of how much the Redskins backfield this year reminds me of the Texans backfield after the 2009 season ended. For those of us who draft early, Steve Slaton, Ryan Moats, and even Chris Brown might have been drafted ahead of Arian Foster in 2010.

Fast forward to 2012, Helu seems to be the consensus favorite and everyone's talking up the Hightower re-signing, but Royster was extremely impressive last year when given the opportunity. Here are the #s:

Helu:

151 ATT, 640 Yards, (4.2 Average), 2 TDs

49 Receptions, 379 Yards (7.7 Average)

Royster:

56 ATT, 328 Yards (5.9 Average), 0 TDs

9 Receptions, 68 Yards (7.6 Average)

If you take away that one anomaly where Helu had 17 catches vs the 49ers, we might be looking at these two guys a bit more evenly. Regardless, their averages are closer than you would expect.
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Were they used in similar situations? I don't watch much of the Redskins so I definitely could be wrong, but I thought Royster was more of a 3rd down guy last year. In general, 3rd down RBs usually have a higher YPC due to the fact that they're usually facing dime defenses who are often willing to give up yards as long as it doesn't result in a 1st down (for example, a 10 yard gain on a draw play on 3rd and 15 is easier than on 1st and 10).

 
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royster was a 6th rounder in the year they drafted helu top of the 4th, and signed fa hightower.

in the first 14 games, when hightower and helu were getting the ball, he logged a grand total 17 carries.

in week 16 and 17 he was pressed into service and produced:

19/132/0 vs minny

20/113/0 @ philly

those are both pretty good games, but didn't foster get his shot in 2010 because (2nd round rookie) tate got knocked out right before the season?

taking a rb in the 2nd doesn't sound like they planned to lock foster in as uberstud.

they apparently love hightower, and I don't see royster as being any better than helu.

but, who knows.

 
Most people who watched the Redskins closely will say that the OL really improved their run blocking towards the end of the season. Yes, Royster had a couple good games, but so did Helu in the previous weeks. The Redskins week-to-week rushing yards:

74

172

65

196

42

92

26

52

61

60

110

100

170

123

141

130

The unit as a whole just starting looking much better down the stretch. Yes, Royster looked like a nice runner. He generally hit the holes and posted good numbers. But, just watching him, there's nothing there to make me think he's even an average RB. He got through the holes provided and that was about it. He's not very fast, no great moves in the open field, and doesn't run anyone over. Helu is shiftier, faster, and showed some ability to break tackles. Hightower has definitely demonstrated more of those skills than Royster.

I just don't see him getting much of a chance over a healthy Hightower and Helu.

 
'bengalbuck said:
'sspunisher said:
Well let's get away from groupthink for a second and play devil's advocate for a bit. I can't shake this feeling of how much the Redskins backfield this year reminds me of the Texans backfield after the 2009 season ended. For those of us who draft early, Steve Slaton, Ryan Moats, and even Chris Brown might have been drafted ahead of Arian Foster in 2010.

Fast forward to 2012, Helu seems to be the consensus favorite and everyone's talking up the Hightower re-signing, but Royster was extremely impressive last year when given the opportunity. Here are the #s:

Helu:

151 ATT, 640 Yards, (4.2 Average), 2 TDs

49 Receptions, 379 Yards (7.7 Average)

Royster:

56 ATT, 328 Yards (5.9 Average), 0 TDs

9 Receptions, 68 Yards (7.6 Average)

If you take away that one anomaly where Helu had 17 catches vs the 49ers, we might be looking at these two guys a bit more evenly. Regardless, their averages are closer than you would expect.
Click to expand...
Were they used in similar situations? I don't watch much of the Redskins so I definitely could be wrong, but I thought Royster was more of a 3rd down guy last year. In general, 3rd down RBs usually have a higher YPC due to the fact that they're usually facing dime defenses who are often willing to give up yards as long as it doesn't result in a 1st down (for example, a 10 yard gain on a draw play on 3rd and 15 is easier than on 1st and 10).
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no, they didnt use an rbbc, it was more like a rotation. helu caught a crap ton of balls in the middle of the season. royster didnt really do anything until he got 10 carries in week 15, and then was the full time rb over the last 2 weeks. so his ypa are from full games, not specific situations. helu just kinda hit the rookie wall i guess. likewise, helu didnt do much until hightower got hurt

 
i think royster compairs extremely well to foster this time a few years ago. i went back to look at some of the foster chatter during those last weeks of the season when foster got his first shot. there was definitley more love for foster at that time then there is for royster right now, but not by much.here is a post i grabbed to show you

"i realize this thread is about short termbut to add a dynasty opinion to this thread from someone who saw EVERY foster college game:he will not ever be a feature back unless he drastically improves ball control ... he was a fumbling machine (and even greater fumble % inside his own and his opponent's 10-yard lines)that fact above and his game-speed isn't even average (SEC D-lineman chasing him down memories in my head) probably dull his longterm outlookhe was a good blocker and ironically, for a fumbler, he had great pass catching skills"
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this was right after his week 16 game where he had 135 total yards and a td
 
'dgreen said:
Yes, Royster looked like a nice runner. He generally hit the holes and posted good numbers. But, just watching him, there's nothing there to make me think he's even an average RB. He got through the holes provided and that was about it. He's not very fast, no great moves in the open field, and doesn't run anyone over. Helu is shiftier, faster, and showed some ability to break tackles. Hightower has definitely demonstrated more of those skills than Royster.I just don't see him getting much of a chance over a healthy Hightower and Helu.
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I'll agree Helu is faster and more agile, but Royster had one particular run against the Seahawks that really caught my attention and made me wonder about his potential. He must have made 6 guys miss going up the gut and it showed me that he had some nice agility of his own. I think with some dedication in the offseason he'll keep his legs under him much better. I'm very very intrigued.
 
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'flc735 said:
helu just kinda hit the rookie wall i guess. likewise, helu didnt do much until hightower got hurt
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Hmmm does anyone remember why Royster was getting the start those last two weeks? I vividly remember picking him up for Week 15 and then also using him in the championship game the following week, so I know it wasn't a total surprise that he got the start. I can't seem to remember the specifics, though.
 
According to profootball focus Roy Helu graded out as the 4th best pass blocking RB in the nfl last season, where as Royster was ranked in the mid 30's.

The fact that Helu blocked that well as a rookie makes me believe he has a chance to be a special pass blocking RB. This is important with a rookie QB, since it takes a few years to develop a pocket presence.

Just for a point of reference Ahmad bradshaw has ranked in the top 3 each of the last 3 years for blocking. He is currently the best blocking back in the league. In 2010 Bradshaw's best season as a blocker he graded out higher than Clinton Portis's best season as a blocker.

 
'sspunisher said:
'flc735 said:
helu just kinda hit the rookie wall i guess. likewise, helu didnt do much until hightower got hurt
Click to expand...
Hmmm does anyone remember why Royster was getting the start those last two weeks? I vividly remember picking him up for Week 15 and then also using him in the championship game the following week, so I know it wasn't a total surprise that he got the start. I can't seem to remember the specifics, though.
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from what i remember, helu just ran out of gas. they decided to make the switch durring the week so it must have been obvious. either that, or maybe he had some kind of injury, though nothing like that was reported
 
'MTskibum said:
According to profootball focus Roy Helu graded out as the 4th best pass blocking RB in the nfl last season, where as Royster was ranked in the mid 30's.The fact that Helu blocked that well as a rookie makes me believe he has a chance to be a special pass blocking RB. This is important with a rookie QB, since it takes a few years to develop a pocket presence. Just for a point of reference Ahmad bradshaw has ranked in the top 3 each of the last 3 years for blocking. He is currently the best blocking back in the league. In 2010 Bradshaw's best season as a blocker he graded out higher than Clinton Portis's best season as a blocker.
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Awesome info - thxHelu was limited in wk16 practice with reported toe, ankle, and knee injuries, and was inactive either due to the nature of those injuroes, or because he had missed some practice and shanny had another warm body handy
 
"Redskins coach Mike Shanahan revealed Monday that Roy Helu was deactivated in Week 16 because he couldn't push off on his injured toe and ankle."

Helu was injured in week 15 vs the Giants, out for week 16, and limited in week 17.

 
'MTskibum said:
According to profootball focus Roy Helu graded out as the 4th best pass blocking RB in the nfl last season, where as Royster was ranked in the mid 30's.The fact that Helu blocked that well as a rookie makes me believe he has a chance to be a special pass blocking RB. This is important with a rookie QB, since it takes a few years to develop a pocket presence. Just for a point of reference Ahmad bradshaw has ranked in the top 3 each of the last 3 years for blocking. He is currently the best blocking back in the league. In 2010 Bradshaw's best season as a blocker he graded out higher than Clinton Portis's best season as a blocker.
Click to expand...
Good post, but the way you presented it made me just assume Royster wasn't graded a good blocker. I checked out PFF and Royster's blocking rating was right on point with guys we consider capable blockers. Don't want to give all the #s away b/c it's paid conent, but here are a few players to give you an idea. Fred Jackson: 4.7 (league high)Roy Helu: 3.7Tim Hightower: 2.5Arian Foster 1.8Evan Royster 1.8SJax: 1.6Chris Johnson: 0.2 Matt Forte -1.3LeSean McCoy: -5.0Reggie Bush: -7.2 (league low)As you can see some players who are considered competent blockers don't grade out as well as you'd think, but it's still encouraging that Royster graded out positively.
 
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'sspunisher said:
'MTskibum said:
According to profootball focus Roy Helu graded out as the 4th best pass blocking RB in the nfl last season, where as Royster was ranked in the mid 30's.The fact that Helu blocked that well as a rookie makes me believe he has a chance to be a special pass blocking RB. This is important with a rookie QB, since it takes a few years to develop a pocket presence. Just for a point of reference Ahmad bradshaw has ranked in the top 3 each of the last 3 years for blocking. He is currently the best blocking back in the league. In 2010 Bradshaw's best season as a blocker he graded out higher than Clinton Portis's best season as a blocker.
Click to expand...
Good post, but the way you presented it made me just assume Royster wasn't graded a good blocker. I checked out PFF and Royster's blocking rating was right on point with guys we consider capable blockers. Don't want to give all the #s away b/c it's paid conent, but here are a few players to give you an idea. Fred Jackson: 4.7 (league high)Roy Helu: 3.7Tim Hightower: 2.5Arian Foster 1.8Evan Royster 1.8SJax: 1.6Chris Johnson: 0.2 Matt Forte -1.3LeSean McCoy: -5.0Reggie Bush: -7.2 (league low)As you can see some players who are considered competent blockers don't grade out as well as you'd think, but it's still encouraging that Royster graded out positively.
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You are correct and i was wrong. Royster did grade out as a decent blocker last season.That doesnt change the fact that helu could develop into an elite blocker.
 
'Touchdown There said:
'lbouchard said:
'Touchdown There said:
'MTskibum said:
That doesnt change the fact that helu could develop into an elite blocker.
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Helu also has elite speed, which few people remember.
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Helu does not have elite speed
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http://bleacherreport.com/articles/621937-nfl-combine-results-roy-helu-and-the-10-biggest-surprises-in-sundays-workout/page/11
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I don't consider a mid 4.4 showing in the 40(which is overrated, but that's a different debate) to be elite, but I could be mistaken
 
A lot of similarities between Royster and Foster coming out of college. First of all, their landing spots. They were both considered good cutback runners who fell into the Shanahan/Kubiak one-cut system. Both are roughly the same height and weight. Both were considered good blockers with acceptable hands.

Biggest knock on them coming out was breakaway speed. Foster had a 4.70 40 Yard dash at his pro day I believe. Royster had a 4.65. And of course, both played behind a slew of running backs with injury concerns. I like Helu more than Royster, but I liked Tate more than Foster as well so who knows.

 
'Kool-Aid Larry said:
royster was a 6th rounder in the year they drafted helu top of the 4th, and signed fa hightower.

in the first 14 games, when hightower and helu were getting the ball, he logged a grand total 17 carries.

in week 16 and 17 he was pressed into service and produced:

19/132/0 vs minny

20/113/0 @ philly

those are both pretty good games, but didn't foster get his shot in 2010 because (2nd round rookie) tate got knocked out right before the season?

taking a rb in the 2nd doesn't sound like they planned to lock foster in as uberstud.

they apparently love hightower, and I don't see royster as being any better than helu.

but, who knows.
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Yes but Foster did well the year before and other players liked playing with him. In that camp he had to beat out Tate but he may have done so even without the injury.

 
I like Royster in best ball formats. You might milk 4-5 decent starts out of a guy that probably is your last guy not he bench. I like him to have a handful of 100 yard efforts and he can catch the ball too. Shanny uses several backs and rides the hot hand...at some point in the season Royster will be the hot hand. Helu/Royster combo is fairly cheap and not a bad bet. Hightower is coming off an ACL and he won't be what he was prior IMO.

 
If I learned anything from last year it was to just avoid the headache of any backfeild managed by The Rat.

People are talking about Royster/Helu/Hightower now but don't be supprised when the Torain train arrives in week 7 then leaves in week 8 followed by a late round pick who was burried on the depth chart in week 12 then some shmo brought up from the practice squad in week 14.

 
'Bobby Guano said:
If I learned anything from last year it was to just avoid the headache of any backfeild managed by The Rat. People are talking about Royster/Helu/Hightower now but don't be supprised when the Torain train arrives in week 7 then leaves in week 8 followed by a late round pick who was burried on the depth chart in week 12 then some shmo brought up from the practice squad in week 14.
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Torain isn't even on their 90-man training camp roster.
 
A lot of people are forgetting that Shanahan loves a bellcow. Just no ones completely stepped up for him the past couple years and this was compounded by a horrible QB situation. I'm pretty sure the same thing happened in his last year in Denver. Kept giving every RB a chance and they were dropping like flies. I think people are prematurely putting him in Bellichick territory when it comes to RBs.

 
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I like Royster's potential vs his value right now. People are down on him because he isn't fast or flashy. From what I've seen, he hits the hole hard, has good vision and above average balance. While he is likely only a backup level talent, that is all you need to be in a Shanny backfield sometimes.

I'm also rosting Alfred Morris in deeper leagues as I think he also has that same potential as a lottery ticket to be part of a RBBC.

 
'ConnSKINS26 said:
'Bobby Guano said:
If I learned anything from last year it was to just avoid the headache of any backfeild managed by The Rat.

People are talking about Royster/Helu/Hightower now but don't be supprised when the Torain train arrives in week 7 then leaves in week 8 followed by a late round pick who was burried on the depth chart in week 12 then some shmo brought up from the practice squad in week 14.
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Torain isn't even on their 90-man training camp roster.
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Not on the roster yet....
 
brohan this is a neat thread but i only get so long on here in the mornings and frankly this is way over my head and anything i say would be like it is always is from me probably dumb but cool post and i liked reading what the other football assaassins said about it so keep on keeping on brohan and take it to the bank

 
'SWC said:
brohan this is a neat thread but i only get so long on here in the mornings and frankly this is way over my head and anything i say would be like it is always is from me probably dumb but cool post and i liked reading what the other football assaassins said about it so keep on keeping on brohan and take it to the bank
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these guys need nicknames. How about Evan "The Pearl" Royster and Roy "You had me at" Helu?
 
So i just re-watched a couple Redskin games from last year via NFL rewind. These are my impressions but keep in mind this is the first year I've watched game tape, so I'm by no means an expert.

Helu: Very quick and explosive, and exciting to watch. Seems like he has a chance to take it to the house almost every time he touches the ball. Capable receiver out of the backfield and very good in open space. Has the ability to make defenders miss, and a speed to get to the corner and turn up field. Seemed to make (as far as I could tell) the correct reads when needing to cut back. Toward the end of the year, you could tell that he might have had trouble cutting on his injured toe. One run in particular had a nice cutback lane which I think he makes without the injury and turns it into a 5-10 yard gain, instead he doesn't make the proper read and runs right into the cornerback. My biggest concern with Helu is that I don't think he has the power to move a pile, and thus wouldn't make a strong short-yardage, goal line back.

Royster: Was more impressed with him than I had expected to be. Not at quick or explosive as Helu, nor as elusive, but that doesn't mean the kid doesn't have some moves. He had a 28 yard run up the middle where he made at least 3 guys completely wiff at him on cut back moves. Where Helu has the advantage on the explosive side, Royster seems to have the advantage on the power side. On a fourth and goal I'm trotting Royster out there not Helu. My big issue with Royster is he seems to struggle keeping his feet at times and this leads him to go down more often with first contact.

Conclusion: I could potentially see a time share between these 2 backs with Helu playing between the 20's and Royster in the Red Zone. In Hurry Up/Pass Mode, I think Helu will see most of the time thanks to his good hands and homerun ability. At least, this is how I'd do it if I were the coach. I believe Helu probably has the higher upside as I think he'll lead the team in yards and receptions, while Royster leads the team in TD's. Hightower is still around, but he's recovering from ACL injury and I don't think his talent level is clearly better than these 2. So until injury, I think Hightower stays in the background. While Roysters 28 yard run agianst the Eagles was impressive, it was Helu's 28 yard TD run against the Seahawks that really wowed me. He took the ball left, completely jumped over one unblocked tackler, landed, took one step, lowered his shoulder into another unblocked defender, bounced off him and took off the rest of the way for a TD.

 
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'Captain Quinoa said:
'SWC said:
brohan this is a neat thread but i only get so long on here in the mornings and frankly this is way over my head and anything i say would be like it is always is from me probably dumb but cool post and i liked reading what the other football assaassins said about it so keep on keeping on brohan and take it to the bank
Click to expand...
these guys need nicknames. How about Evan "The Pearl" Royster and Roy "You had me at" Helu?
Click to expand...
brohan those are tell your grandma she is a brohan good right there i will use them and i hope that the national media picks up on them as well take that to the creativity bank my man
 
'lbouchard said:
'Touchdown There said:
'lbouchard said:
'Touchdown There said:
'MTskibum said:
That doesnt change the fact that helu could develop into an elite blocker.
Click to expand...
Helu also has elite speed, which few people remember.
Click to expand...
Helu does not have elite speed
Click to expand...
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/621937-nfl-combine-results-roy-helu-and-the-10-biggest-surprises-in-sundays-workout/page/11
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I don't consider a mid 4.4 showing in the 40(which is overrated, but that's a different debate) to be elite, but I could be mistaken
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:hophead: I guess you failed to read the other portion of the article where Helu finished tops or top 3 among RBs in every other speed/agility drill at the combine (shuttle, 20 yard cone, 60 yard cone...)
 
wasnt it shown that shanny actually doesnt do rbbc very much? rather gives a high workload to his preferred back, but it is nearly impossible to predict which back this will be on a week to week basis.

 
'cvnpoka said:
wasnt it shown that shanny actually doesnt do rbbc very much? rather gives a high workload to his preferred back, but it is nearly impossible to predict which back this will be on a week to week basis.
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Exactly what I've been saying. The past few years his RB talent has been dropping like flies, dating back to his last year in Denver. And Washington was the first time Shanahan never had a QB he trusted. Shanahan isn't Bill Belichick with his RBs. If Helu or Royster step up he'll ride them.
 
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'Leeroy Jenkins said:
I like Royster. Very under-appreciated guy. Do we make nothing of the depth chart released with Hightower at the top though?
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Last year, Hightower was the #1 until he got injured and the #2 (Helu) became the #1. When Helu (the #1 due to injury) got injured, the #2 behind him (Royster) became the #1.I believe it's a situation where last year's #1 (originally, Hightower) isn't losing his job due to injury. Hightower is (still) the #1 until he proves he can't return from injury at the same level he was, and/or until Helu or Royster prove they are better, complete RBs.I find the more interesting part of the current depth chart being Royster is listed as #2 and Helu as #3.
 
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maybe im wrong but has shanny ever used multiple backs within the same game over a several game period?

 
2011 Bloom 100 Post Draft41. Evan Royster, RB, WAS - If you're going to take a stab at the Redskins backfield, I prefer Royster to Helu. He's a bit more rugged and patient, although he doesn't have Helu's long speed.50. Roy Helu, RB, WAS - The combination of my lack of belief in Torain and Helu's status as the first RB chosen by the Redskins this year makes him worth a flier, but he'll be gone long before this in most drafts - maybe as high as the teens - which makes me happy.
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Bloom has liked Royster better than Helu before and after the draft last year.
 
'Modog814 said:
So i just re-watched a couple Redskin games from last year via NFL rewind. These are my impressions but keep in mind this is the first year I've watched game tape, so I'm by no means an expert.Helu: Very quick and explosive, and exciting to watch. Seems like he has a chance to take it to the house almost every time he touches the ball. Capable receiver out of the backfield and very good in open space. Has the ability to make defenders miss, and a speed to get to the corner and turn up field. Seemed to make (as far as I could tell) the correct reads when needing to cut back. Toward the end of the year, you could tell that he might have had trouble cutting on his injured toe. One run in particular had a nice cutback lane which I think he makes without the injury and turns it into a 5-10 yard gain, instead he doesn't make the proper read and runs right into the cornerback. My biggest concern with Helu is that I don't think he has the power to move a pile, and thus wouldn't make a strong short-yardage, goal line back. Royster: Was more impressed with him than I had expected to be. Not at quick or explosive as Helu, nor as elusive, but that doesn't mean the kid doesn't have some moves. He had a 28 yard run up the middle where he made at least 3 guys completely wiff at him on cut back moves. Where Helu has the advantage on the explosive side, Royster seems to have the advantage on the power side. On a fourth and goal I'm trotting Royster out there not Helu. My big issue with Royster is he seems to struggle keeping his feet at times and this leads him to go down more often with first contact. Conclusion: I could potentially see a time share between these 2 backs with Helu playing between the 20's and Royster in the Red Zone. In Hurry Up/Pass Mode, I think Helu will see most of the time thanks to his good hands and homerun ability. At least, this is how I'd do it if I were the coach. I believe Helu probably has the higher upside as I think he'll lead the team in yards and receptions, while Royster leads the team in TD's. Hightower is still around, but he's recovering from ACL injury and I don't think his talent level is clearly better than these 2. So until injury, I think Hightower stays in the background. While Roysters 28 yard run agianst the Eagles was impressive, it was Helu's 28 yard TD run against the Seahawks that really wowed me. He took the ball left, completely jumped over one unblocked tackler, landed, took one step, lowered his shoulder into another unblocked defender, bounced off him and took off the rest of the way for a TD.
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:goodposting: Helu is starting to remind me of Ryan Mathews, a guy with all the talent in the world but being questioned by his coaches. Royster and Foster is pretty spot on too. If Royster gets fist crack no way he looks back, he's built for this system. Helu would be good in any system but if he doesn't get first crack Royster won't give them a reason to change. Felt the same about Hightower and Helu last year.
 
'zadok said:
'VaTerp said:
Interesting quote from Kyle Shanny

http://www.rotoworld...top-back-in-nfl
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Just like last year when John Beck was an elite QB...Why anyone pays any attention to the Shannahans is beyond me.
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Shannahan said many things about Beck but he never said he was an elite QB.In looking at whose going to get the best opportunity to emerge from the Redskins backfield I think quotes from the HC and OC are "interesting." Certainly a lot of coach speak and other BS to weed through but interesting nonetheless as these guys ultimately decide playing time and opportunity.

In listening to Shanny last year you knew Beck would get an opportunity. And he did. Just so happens that he sucked like most of us thought he would.

The quote from Kyle is interesting in that they think Roster could be an elite RB and at some point may give him the opportunity to do so. Obviously, everyone can take that FWIW and form their own opinion/predictions.

 
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