Koya
Footballguy
Although that would be FABulous!You don’t have Anderson Cooper coming through and scooping people up in a helicopter.
Although that would be FABulous!You don’t have Anderson Cooper coming through and scooping people up in a helicopter.
[insert Trump comment here]Considering the consensus about the NK nuclear program less than a year ago being light years behind where it actually is (H-Bomb or not), yeah this is news. The guy is a deranged psychopath with access to the most dangerous weapons on the planet and we can't scare the guy with economic sanctions.
But, as Foreign Policy reported, a former PG&E vice president for transmission operations said at a conference last November that "these were not amateurs taking potshots."
@Doctor Detroit is in Puerto Rico helping people on an island that is without power. I'm sure he will have some interesting insights.Obviously.
Are you implying that since no-one's grid is hardened, we shouldn't consider this to be a threat?
FYI this thread isn't intended to imply that this attack is imminent, it's to discuss the feasibility and potential outcomes. If you feel that there's no threat, that's fine. You are welcome to leave the discussion to the rest of us.
EDIT: @Doctor Detroit, would love your take on this overall issue.
Russia ('likely') has sponsored ads aimed to sow distrust and raise racial and ideological tensions here. They want to cause confusion and seed doubt... especially between and among fellow Americans. You don't think a well timed attack on our grid wouldn't further that strategy?But, as Foreign Policy reported, a former PG&E vice president for transmission operations said at a conference last November that "these were not amateurs taking potshots."
Not a conspiracy guy but it would seem that the fact that no one was caught makes me think the gov't could have done this to make the utility companies address their lackadaisical security. Which was a success apparently.
Whether it was or wasn't an act of terrorism, the Journal says that "as word of the attack spread through the utility industry, some companies moved swiftly to review their security efforts. 'We're looking at things differently now,' said Michele Campanella, an FBI veteran who is director of security for Consolidated Edison Inc. in New York. For example, she said, Con Ed changed the angles of some of its 1,200 security cameras 'so we don't have any blind spots.' "
They were both helped by people with power. Now imagine no one has power. Literally, no one.You guys realize that many parts of Florida were without power for over a week after Irma, right?
And I'm pretty sure most of Puerto Rico is still without power.
Let's not get carried away here.
No doubt. Definitely part of the reason I tagged him. Luckily Puerto Rico is a small group of people receiving ####loads of aid and assistance (thank God).. they have a very long hard road ahead of them.@Doctor Detroit is in Puerto Rico helping people on an island that is without power. I'm sure he will have some interesting insights.
There is power going out and POWER GOING OUT.Me personally? I believe it was about 8 days.
I can't speak for everyone obviously but many people were advised that their power could be out until 9/22. The hurricane hit 9/10.
Some people didn't have cell service.
I'm not gonna speculate on "IFs".
I just wanted to clear up the misconception that society goes to hell if the power goes out for a week. It's just plain wrong.
No doubt.Meh.
The chances of another country doing this to us in my lifetime are pretty small.
On the other hand, the chances of the sun doing it to us in my lifetime are far more concerning. The solar storm of 1859, if it occurred today, would cause so much damage to the power grid it would take years to restore it. Back then it just destroyed the telegraph system.
ETA: I see Walking Boot pointed this out.
Most of Americans aren't rational. Need evidence? I give you http://facebook.comNo doubt.
I introduced the issue with a NK mention, but was definitely going to transition to the Carrington Event as some dug in heels against it being a terrestrial attack.
We're already seeing small scale RF / EMP attacks. Should be interesting.
But when people mock rational-level preppers (not folks that go nuts with it), I think of stuff like this...
Of course, as I noted.The two are vastly different. Florida was hit hard but surrounding states were fine. Much of Florida was also fine. You still had radios and could listen to the news. Government still ran. Aid could come in from nearby unaffected areas.
Not imagine the entire east coast, or the right side of the country, loses power indefinitely. No government. No radio. No cell phone. No aid from the next state over. Oh, and your cars won’t work either. So no long distance traveling. And you have no way of knowing what’s happening or when it will be fixed. It’s like olden times. You don’t have Anderson Cooper coming through and scooping people up in a helicopter.
From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_storm_of_1859Of course, as I noted.
And to be honest, if the entire country was without power for an extended period of time....which I still say is EXTREMELY unlikely and really shouldn't be a concern to your average everyday person...you'll need a whole hell of a lot more than a shotgun.
Would you be more concerned with this occuring compared to someone detonating a suitcase nuke somewhere in the US?From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_storm_of_1859
A solar storm of this magnitude occurring today would cause widespread disruptions and damage to a modern and technology-dependent society
Telegraph systems all over Europe and North America failed, in some cases giving telegraph operators electric shocks.[15] Telegraph pylons threw sparks.[16] Some telegraph operators could continue to send and receive messages despite having disconnected their power supplies.[17]
Many scientists believe the sun has done this to the earth thousands of times throughout history. It probably happens on average about once every 100 years. It last happened 158 years ago, which was the first time mankind was using electricity in any capacity during the storm. Today our society relies on electricity far more than simply sending morse code messages.
As I said in my first post in this thread "The chances of another country doing this to us in my lifetime are pretty small. On the other hand, the chances of the sun doing it to us in my lifetime are far more concerning."Would you be more concerned with this occuring compared to someone detonating a suitcase nuke somewhere in the US?
Perhaps of fighting off hordes of singularily focused islanders....Foosball God said:@Doctor Detroit is in Puerto Rico helping people on an island that is without power. I'm sure he will have some interesting insights.
It was a fascinating fictional story but it reads like swc edited it. (No offense, gb, love your, uh, unique style)That was the impetus for the shotgun? Wow. OK, I'm ordering it. I guess it's good I already have the shotgun and a few other things that go bang.
Been awhile since I've heard SUITCASE NUKE used.eoMMan said:Would you be more concerned with this occuring compared to someone detonating a suitcase nuke somewhere in the US?
I would think that if the government was behind this, they wouldn't have suppressed it from the media indefinitely. Had they informed all the energy companies of this but not the general public, I would have to think that with that many people knowing about it, something would've been leaked.lod001 said:Not a conspiracy guy but it would seem that the fact that no one was caught makes me think the gov't could have done this to make the utility companies address their lackadaisical security. Which was a success apparently.
This is hysteria."A pinch is a device which creates, like, a cardiac arrest for any broadband electrical circuitry. Better yet, a pinch is a bomb - now, but without the bomb. See, when a nuclear weapon detonates, it unleashes an electromagnetic pulse which shuts down any power source within its blast radius. Now that tends not to matter in most cases, because the nuclear weapon usually destroys anything you might need power for anyway. But see, a pinch creates a similar electromagnetic pulse, but without the fuss of mass destruction and death. So instead of Hiroshima, you'd be getting the seventeenth century." :Basher:
The biggest issues you'd be looking at are water, security and heat, not necessarily in that order. If you live in a warm climate, you may not have to worry about heat. If this were to happen in the summer, maybe heat isn't an issue either.So there is a whole lot of pants crapping going on here. Does anyone have any suggestions about what we do about it? Aside from arming up and stocking MRE's of course?
I meant more "what can we do about our ghetto grid" but I like the cut of your jib, doomsday picker.The biggest issues you'd be looking at are water, security and heat, not necessarily in that order. If you live in a warm climate, you may not have to worry about heat. If this were to happen in the summer, maybe heat isn't an issue either.
Water is the biggest issue. If something like this were to happen, the vast majority of deaths wouldn't be from starvation, it would be water borne illnesses. A $20 life straw could go a long way.
Not much. I worked for the last three years for one of the bigger electrical providers in the country and one that got a lot of its power from nuclear. Most electrical companies offload the delivery aspect of the grid to other companies, wanting to focus on the making of the energy more than the delivery of said power. See, maintaining those lines and substations is really expensive. A large chunk of that is managed by companies that don't make the power and thus don't make as much money. Trying to tack on extra security of said substations is not going to happen until we have a major catastrophe. Particularly when the NERC board is made up of this countries energy companies. That's right, the board that was created to help keep our electrical grid secure, is comprised of the companies that have to secure it. So we have the foxes guarding the hen house. We won't see any fix until a major catastrophe happens because the fox likes guarding the hens. We are not proactive in the way we regulate and govern. That's not how this country works. We are not proactive. We are reactive. So you may want to rethink that Life Straw.I meant more "what can we do about our ghetto grid" but I like the cut of your jib, doomsday picker.
10/4 on the straws. Since we would all like to avoid some sort of electrical outage apocalypse (wasn't there a tv show about this a few years back? @El Floppo?) why wouldn't we funnel some federal dollars toward upgrading the grid? Is it even possible to upgrade the grid to withstand an EMP?Not much. I worked for the last three years for one of the bigger electrical providers in the country and one that got a lot of its power from nuclear. Most electrical companies offload the delivery aspect of the grid to other companies, wanting to focus on the making of the energy more than the delivery of said power. See, maintaining those lines and substations is really expensive. A large chunk of that is managed by companies that don't make the power and thus don't make as much money. Trying to tack on extra security of said substations is not going to happen until we have a major catastrophe. Particularly when the NERC board is made up of this countries energy companies. That's right, the board that was created to help keep our electrical grid secure, is comprised of the companies that have to secure it. So we have the foxes guarding the hen house. We won't see any fix until a major catastrophe happens because the fox likes guarding the hens. We are not proactive in the way we regulate and govern. That's not how this country works. We are not proactive. We are reactive. So you may want to rethink that Life Straw.
It is possible, and wouldn't cost all that much, but it would have to be done by everyone. Everyone would have to agree to set aside some dollars, time and effort to get it done. If everyone doesn't do it, and some substations go down, they can overwhelm substations down the line that might've been hardened against an EMP but can't handle the energy from the ones that weren't and it's the same thing. Weakest Link basically.10/4 on the straws. Since we would all like to avoid some sort of electrical outage apocalypse (wasn't there a tv show about this a few years back? @El Floppo?) why wouldn't we funnel some federal dollars toward upgrading the grid? Is it even possible to upgrade the grid to withstand an EMP?
Smoke 'em if you got 'em.So there is a whole lot of pants crapping going on here. Does anyone have any suggestions about what we do about it? Aside from arming up and stocking MRE's of course?
Gilmore Girls?10/4 on the straws. Since we would all like to avoid some sort of electrical outage apocalypse (wasn't there a tv show about this a few years back? @El Floppo?) why wouldn't we funnel some federal dollars toward upgrading the grid? Is it even possible to upgrade the grid to withstand an EMP?
Electrical Outage. Not Estrogen Overage apocalypse.Gilmore Girls?
ah.Electrical Outage. Not Estrogen Overage apocalypse.Gilmore Girls?
Water? What water?I used to store food and water, but then came to realize that if I had food and water and my neighbors didn't, the government would confiscate my food ans water using the argument that doing so is for the public good, whereas me hoarding it for me and my family is not. So other than going into compete isolation, like a secured underground bunker, there is nothing individuals can do to prepare for such, unless they are cool with the government dibursing it amongst those who didn't prepare.