Eli Manning: Does Anyone Still Believe? (2 Viewers)

[Raider Nation]

He almost did a pretty good job of faking interest in the game today.

 

[WilsonTheVolleyball]

I'd like my plate of crow now. Shame on me for thinking Eli was roster worthy because of the schedule.

I'm sorry and I sincerely apologize.

Especially to Raider Nation. I let you down, bro.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

It is truly unexplainable as to what happened to Eli this year. Guys lose it over night, but not great guys and Eli has been great at times. This is just sad.

Eli has never been great. He's been good enough a few times, but never great.

 

[Faust]

Five lingering questions: Eli Manning

By Dan Graziano | ESPN.com

The New York Giants have been the NFL's most active team so far this offseason, adding 14 free agents from outside their organization and re-signing 10 of their own. But free agency is no cure-all, as we've all heard countless times. So each day this week, we'll take a look at one question that still remains following the Giants' spring splurge. Today we ask:

What can the Giants expect from Eli Manning?

I swear this post was planned before Thursday's news that Manning was having surgery on his sprained left ankle. But obviously, the fact of offseason surgery can only add to the legitimacy of the questions surrounding the Giants' franchise quarterback following his worst season. Manning threw a career-high 27 interceptions in 2013 to go with 18 touchdown passes, his lowest total since becoming the Giants' full-time starter. His passing yardage total of 3,818 was his lowest since 2008. His 57.5 completion percentage was his lowest since 2007, and for the third year in a row was lower than it was the year before.

There are those who wonder whether Manning is a player in decline at age 33. This is a question that has not gone unasked within the ranks of the Giants' front office. It is part of the reason the Giants decided not to try this offseason to extend Manning's contract, which runs through 2015, even though doing so would have offered them significant salary cap relief. They would like to see him pull out of his downward trend before they commit to his late 30s. Their hope is that he has a big year and that extending him next offseason makes sense.

But there's no way to know, and the Giants didn't exactly load up around Manning this offseason. They brought in a couple of new offensive linemen who may or may not be upgrades. They added a running back who's probably better than what they had in the second half of 2013. They did not upgrade at wide receiver or tight end. Manning is going to have to make his recovery more or less on his own. He's going to have to find a way to improve the aspects of his performance that were his fault in 2013. The Giants hope that, in doing so, he can elevate the personnel around him on the offensive side of the ball.

They're also hoping, as coach Tom Coughlin has said more than once, that Manning will be "energized" by the arrival of new offensive coordinator Ben McAdoo. After 10 years in basically the same system, Manning will be learning new things this summer and putting them into practice in the fall. We do not yet know enough about the offense McAdoo is installing to guess whether Manning's skills are suited to it, but it's safe to assume the Giants asked (and answered) that question before hiring McAdoo. The new offense, if it bears any resemblance to the one in which McAdoo worked in Green Bay, is likely to rely on quick decision-making (a Manning strength) and short-range accuracy. The old reliance on downfield timing and the ability of his receivers to read coverages exactly as he does from play to play could dwindle, and with it the interception total.

Those are the theories, at least. We'll all find out together whether they hold up. The last time Manning had a 25-interception season was 2010, and it bothered him greatly. I remember speaking to him about it in training camp in 2011 and him telling me, "Some you can't control and some are the result of bad decisions. We just have to eliminate the bad-decision ones." Once he gets on the field, I imagine that will be his focus once again this year, with the hope that it ends up for him and the Giants the way that 2011 season did. From here, that seems like a stretch. I think the Giants would just like to see Manning look like he's in command of things again. Because last year, there were very few moments when that appeared to be the case.

 

[Faust]

Giants eye Josh Freeman, Matt Flynn as temporary replacements for injured Eli

BY Ralph Vacchiano

Eli Manning’s ankle surgery will likely keep him off the field for much, if not all, of the spring workouts. So the Giants are beginning their search for someone to temporarily take his place.

The first stop on their search may be with Josh Freeman and Matt Flynn, two well-travelled veteran quarterbacks who are currently the cream of what is a very thin free agent quarterback crop. Freeman, the former Bucs starting quarterback who was traded to the Vikings last year, may work out for the Giants early next week, a source confirmed, though nothing official has been set up yet.

And the Daily News has learned the Giants have also reached out to Flynn -- who spent the end of last season in Green Bay where he worked with former Packers quarterbacks coach and new Giants offensive coordinator Ben McAdoo -- and may schedule a workout with him as well.

Both players have starting experience, but the Giants don't view them in that role. They seem convinced that the arthroscopic surgery Manning had on his left ankle on Thursday was a minor procedure, and that he’ll be able to resume running in late May and will be fully ready for the start of training camp in late July.

But organized team activity sessions begin on May 28, not long after the 33-year-old Manning is scheduled to resume running, and he won’t likely be fully ready for drills then. According to several sources, the expectation is Manning will either not be ready for, or held back from most of the OTAs this spring and possibly even the full-team mini-camp in mid-June. So there will be a lot of on-field work that he’ll miss.

That’s why the team is expected to look at several veterans, such as the 26-year-old Freeman and the 28-year-old Flynn. The Giants do have veteran Curtis Painter and second-year pro Ryan Nassib on the roster, but they’ll need at least one more quarterback to run their spring drills.


Freeman, who has made 60 starts in his somewhat turbulent career, would clearly be able to do that and he could provide some interesting competition for Painter and Nassib over the summer in the battle for the backup quarterback job. He’s had a very up-and-down career that hit it’s early peak in 2012 when he threw for 4,065 yards and 27 touchdowns. But early last year he lost his starting job in Tampa to Mike Glennon, then clashed with Bucs coach Greg Schiano and the Bucs organization and was eventually released in early October.

Three days later he signed with the Vikings where he made his only start in Week 7 against the Giants. He completed just 20 of 53 passes for 190 yards an interception in a 23-7 loss.

Flynn, meanwhile, has played for four teams in his six-year career, including twice with the Green Bay Packers. He was once a highly regarded backup to Packers quarterback Aaron Rodgers and even signed a three-year, $26 million contract with the Seattle Seahawks in 2012. But he quickly lost his starting job there to Russell Wilson. Last season he spent time with the Raiders and Bills before making four starts with the Packers when Rodgers was hurt.

Other than Flynn and Freeman there are very few experienced quarterbacks left on the free-agent market at the moment. Rex Grossman, Kevin Kolb and Brady Quinn would seem to be the best of the bunch. According to an NFL source, the Giants have not expressed any interest in Grossman yet. It's not known if they have any interest in taking a look at Kolb or Quinn.

 

[Bri]

they should just sign Carr. He knows the guys and has been excellent in practice and is zero threat to Eli.

 

[Faust]

Browns' moves -- hiring Farmer, handling Mack -- good for change

Pat Kirwan

Excerpt:

Eli facing what Rivers faced in '13Giants QB Eli Manning is taking on the same heavy scrutiny Phil Rivers faced a year ago. These two are forever tied together because of the famous draft day trade when Manning was the Chargers' first overall pick in 2004 and traded to the Giants moments later for Rivers.

In 2012, Rivers had a rough season, fueling speculation about his career winding down and he no longer had the legs to throw the fastball. Not true. Rivers went from a 7-9 season and being sacked 49 times in 2012 to making the playoffs and only taking 30 sacks while throwing for 4,478 yards and 32 TDs last season.

Can Manning rebound as Rivers did last year? Granted Manning is having ankle surgery but he never misses games and when he has thrown picks before he has bounced back. In 2007, he threw 20 INTs and the next two seasons he threw 10 and 14. In 2010 he threw 25 interceptions and followed those two seasons up with 16 and 15. He has a new coordinator this season, something that recharged Rivers' batteries last year.

One Giants front-office person said: "The change will do Eli some real good with fresh ideas and the feeling he has to learn some new things."

The Giants also need better offensive-line play and receivers who hold onto the ball. Last season, Rivers had between 11 and 14 dropped passes by most accounts. Manning had close to 30 drops.

My guess is Manning cuts INTs almost in half from last year's 27 and the sacks drop slightly. In 2012 Manning was only sacked 19 times and I suspect he will be closer to that number than the 39 he took in 2013.

 

[Faust]

Kevin Gilbride: 'Ludicrous' to say Eli Manning in declineBy Chris Wesseling

Around the League Writer

Outgoing offensive coordinator Kevin Gilbride finds it hard to believe that the New York Giants' brass has wondered if Eli Manning has reached the decline phase of his career.

It would be easy for Gilbride to play along, pinning the blame for his disappointing offense on subpar quarterback play.

Instead, Gilbride shot down the notion as "ludicrous" while appearing on Monday's edition of NBCSN's "Pro Football Talk."

"There's been no deterioration of his arm strength, there's been no lack of preparation and effort," Gilbride said. "I think he's going to be fine as soon as they solidify the offensive line ... and as soon as they get somebody that's going to be productive for them as an outside receiver.

"Victor Cruz is terrific, but they need somebody that when they go match up, bump and run (and) go win for them."

As part of their offseason due diligence, the Giants owe it to themselves to ask if Manning is in decline -- especially with a contract due to expire after the 2015 season.

It's a good bet that the front office has reached the same conclusion as Gilbride, though.

Discussing the issue on Monday's edition of the "Around The League Podcast," we drew a comparison between the current version of Manning and Brett Favre's 2005 to '06 nadir on a rebuilding Packers team with a crumbling offensive line and a disturbing lack of weapons.

The difference is that Favre is one of the top 10 quarterbacks in NFL history, while Eli has been one of the most overrated. If the latter bounces back, it will be to slightly above average -- not great.

The latest edition of the "Around The League Podcast" covers the Aldon Smith arrest and analyzes the offseason movers and shakers in the NFC East and NFC South.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Kevin Gilbride: 'Ludicrous' to say Eli Manning in decline

By Chris Wesseling

Around the League Writer

Outgoing offensive coordinator Kevin Gilbride finds it hard to believe that the New York Giants' brass has wondered if Eli Manning has reached the decline phase of his career.

It would be easy for Gilbride to play along, pinning the blame for his disappointing offense on subpar quarterback play.

Instead, Gilbride shot down the notion as "ludicrous" while appearing on Monday's edition of NBCSN's "Pro Football Talk."

"There's been no deterioration of his arm strength, there's been no lack of preparation and effort," Gilbride said. "I think he's going to be fine as soon as they solidify the offensive line ... and as soon as they get somebody that's going to be productive for them as an outside receiver.

"Victor Cruz is terrific, but they need somebody that when they go match up, bump and run (and) go win for them."

As part of their offseason due diligence, the Giants owe it to themselves to ask if Manning is in decline -- especially with a contract due to expire after the 2015 season.

It's a good bet that the front office has reached the same conclusion as Gilbride, though.

Discussing the issue on Monday's edition of the "Around The League Podcast," we drew a comparison between the current version of Manning and Brett Favre's 2005 to '06 nadir on a rebuilding Packers team with a crumbling offensive line and a disturbing lack of weapons.

The difference is that Favre is one of the top 10 quarterbacks in NFL history, while Eli has been one of the most overrated. If the latter bounces back, it will be to slightly above average -- not great.

The latest edition of the "Around The League Podcast" covers the Aldon Smith arrest and analyzes the offseason movers and shakers in the NFC East and NFC South.

Thanks for posting Faust. It's really interesting I think.

My gut feel is that I never liked Manning nearly as much as others to start with. I started off with his career feeling sort of right. Then I was definitely shown to be wrong. But now it's kind of back to maybe I was right. This is pure gut feeling so take that for what it's worth (not much) but I just can't get confident about him.

J

 

[Faust]

Eli Manning on his ankle: 'I should be 100 percent by training camp'

 

[Faust]

Eli Manning, Giants envision their offense being similar to the Packers

By Jordan Raanan/NJ.com

When the Giants take the field this season with their new offense under first-time coordinator Ben McAdoo, it will be with a fresh new look. After two days studying the new playbook, quarterback Eli Manning expects it to resemble the Packers' offense, with plenty of West Coast concepts.

McAdoo comes to the Giants from Green Bay, where he served as the tight ends and quarterbacks coach. But his apprenticeship under Packers coach Mike McCarthy -- who runs a version of the West Coast offense -- dates back to 2004. He's bringing what he knows best to the "broken" (owner John Mara's words, not mine) unit that ranked 28th in the NFL last season.

"I think it will be similar to what they did in Green Bay," Manning said Tuesday while sporting a walking boot fresh off ankle surgery. "That's where Ben came from, so I think it will be pretty similar to that offense.

"I've never been in a West Coast offense, so I don't know if it's exactly a West Coast or a form of it, or anything at all like it. I think it has some tendencies to it, the protections and stuff, but every offense has it's own little dial and uniqueness that makes it work."

The Giants have been preparing for this for months. How else do you explain Victor Cruz's admission that he "got a little taste of it" earlier this month while working out with Manning at Duke University?

Cruz and Mario Manningham focused on routes that are considered West Coast favorites during those workouts. They were prepping for the drastic change from Kevin Gilbride's play-action, vertical-route offense to the quick-hit system that has allowed Aaron Rodgers to blossom into one of the game's best quarterbacks. Manning is hoping it helps him bounce back after a 27-interpcetion season.

"It is a little bit different than our past offense with the timing of the routes and the ball coming out quickly," Manning said. "I'm hoping that I have success in this and become a better player."

It's not going to be easy. Manning admitted his mind was swimming at the moment, only two days into the new playbook. The Giants didn't even get to the passing plays yet. They were still digesting some of the run-game concepts and formations.

To a man, the offensive players seemed to concede learning the new language that comes with the new system will be the most daunting task. But it's nothing that can't be tackled with some time and practice.

There seems to be little resistance to the change at the moment. They're all open to new approach, especially if it means more 21st-century style.

“It’s a high-powered offense, high octane. We got a little taste of it so far and I’m excited about it,” Cruz said. “If anyone watches Green Bay, they know they score a lot of points and get up and down the field pretty quickly. And they put up a lot of big plays. So we’re excited about that.”

Once the Giants receivers learn the new verbiage, the offense in general should be easier to execute. Gone are the complicated route-reads the wide receivers were tasked with under Gilbride. In are the defined routes of McAdoo and his West Coast-style offense.

“As far as my route-running was concerned in the slot position, a lot of my routes were determined by what the secondary was doing, what type of coverage they were in. That would dictate my route,” Cruz said.

“As far as this offense is concerned, it’s a lot more of your route is your route, and you can dictate that off your coverage and know what you have and Eli can find you within those different holes. Now it’s a lot less dependent on what my body language is.”

That should help the Giants cut down on the mistakes. It should help Manning cut down on the interceptions.

And make no mistake, this is no longer Tom Coughlin/Kevin Gilbride’s old-school offense.

“This is Coach McAdoo’s offense,” Manning said.

And it comes with a significant West Coast flair.

 

[Faust]

Eli Manning wants to reinvent himself this seasonPosted by Michael David Smith on April 23, 2014, 9:17 AM EDT

Giants quarterback Eli Manning threw 27 interceptions last season, the most in his career and the most any NFL player had thrown in any season in the last eight years. But Manning thinks things will change this year.

At the first day of the Giants’ offseason workouts, Manning said this season will provide himself and his teammates with an opportunity to show that last year’s 7-9 record doesn’t define who they are.

“This is an opportunity to reinvent yourself and to come back and change what occurred last year, some of the difficulties, and bounce back and have a clean slate, prove yourself again and play at a high level,” Manning said.

Manning is recovering from ankle surgery and not able to work out with his teammates, so he’ll get a late start on reinventing himself. The Giants need him to get healthy, and to play a whole lot better than he did last year.

 

[Tau837]

Browns' moves -- hiring Farmer, handling Mack -- good for change

Pat Kirwan

Excerpt:

Eli facing what Rivers faced in '13Giants QB Eli Manning is taking on the same heavy scrutiny Phil Rivers faced a year ago. These two are forever tied together because of the famous draft day trade when Manning was the Chargers' first overall pick in 2004 and traded to the Giants moments later for Rivers.

In 2012, Rivers had a rough season, fueling speculation about his career winding down and he no longer had the legs to throw the fastball. Not true. Rivers went from a 7-9 season and being sacked 49 times in 2012 to making the playoffs and only taking 30 sacks while throwing for 4,478 yards and 32 TDs last season.

Can Manning rebound as Rivers did last year? Granted Manning is having ankle surgery but he never misses games and when he has thrown picks before he has bounced back. In 2007, he threw 20 INTs and the next two seasons he threw 10 and 14. In 2010 he threw 25 interceptions and followed those two seasons up with 16 and 15. He has a new coordinator this season, something that recharged Rivers' batteries last year.

One Giants front-office person said: "The change will do Eli some real good with fresh ideas and the feeling he has to learn some new things."

The Giants also need better offensive-line play and receivers who hold onto the ball. Last season, Rivers had between 11 and 14 dropped passes by most accounts. Manning had close to 30 drops.

My guess is Manning cuts INTs almost in half from last year's 27 and the sacks drop slightly. In 2012 Manning was only sacked 19 times and I suspect he will be closer to that number than the 39 he took in 2013.

The problem with this analogy is that Eli has never been as good a QB as Rivers. So it seems unlikely that any Eli bounce back will be as good as Rivers' was.

 

[massraider]

Eli has already bounced back twice, and won Super Bowls.

 

[IHEARTFF]

Put me down in the Eli is never going to be a top 10 qb again camp.

 

[Faust]

Eli Manning remains Giants' best 2014 hope

 

[Faust]

John Mara: 'We expect to see the championship-level Eli' in 2014By Ryan Wilson | CBSSports.com

Despite throwing a career-high 27 interceptions last season and ranking as one of the NFL's worst quarterbacks, Eli Manning has the full support of Giants co-owner John Mara, who still thinks the 33-year-old, two-time Super Bowl winner can play at a high level.

“I don't think he all of a sudden forgot how to play quarterback,” Mara said, via the New York Daily News' Ralph Vacchiano. “We expect to see the championship-level Eli play for us this year. He hopefully will have more support than he had last year, and I think you'll see him playing back to his form.”

Of course, critics would argue that Manning has been the beneficiary of some really good defenses and a lot of luck during those two runs to titles. But as we wrote last month, Manning wasn't the only reason the 2013 Giants limped to an 0-6 start (before finishing 7-9) and featured a 31st-ranked offense that was just inept on the ground as it was through the air. The offensive line was a mess, the running game was nonexistent, and the pass catchers struggled to make plays.

Still, an ESPN report suggested that some in the Giants front office wondered if Manning was a player in decline. Mara, apparently, wasn't one of those voices.

“I think you almost feel like this is an opportunity to re-invent yourself,” Mara said. “And to come back and to change what occurred last year and some of the difficulties, and bounce back and kind of have a clean slate to kind of prove yourself again, and get back to playing at a high level. ...

“We still believe he's got a lot of years left in him,” the owner continued. “And we're not talking like Eli Manning only has one or two more years left. We think he's got quite a few more left.”

So get comfortable, Giants fans, because it sounds like Manning's not going anywhere. Although we'll get a sense for just how committed Mara is when (if?) the team extends Manning's contract, which is set to expire after the 2015 season.

 

[Faust]

VIDEO: Eli Manning begins running three weeks ahead of original schedule

 

[Faust]

Eli Manning not quite 100 percent yet

 

[Mr. Irrelevant]

Just in case anyone's interested:

Since 1980, 56 QBs with 5+ years experience in the NFL have had a season in which they started 12+ games and put up an ANY/A of less than 5.0 after age 28. (There are a total of 81 such seasons, as a lot of guys managed it more than once.) Those 56 names, by the way, include a handful of HoF'ers and many other good-to-great QBs.

Of those 56, exactly 12 ever had another "very good" season after that (one in which they started 12+ games with an ANY/A over 6.5). Only three have done so since the turn of the century: Brett Favre, Brad Johnson, and Jake Plummer.

Those numbers are honestly not as grim as I would have guessed ... a nearly-25% success rate in pulling yourself out of the ditch after a nightmare late-career season isn't bad ... but they're still stacked against Eli ever regaining his prior form.

 

[IHEARTFF]

That looks pretty grim to me. A 75% chance he is completely done is bad. But it's made worse by the fact he is Eli Manning. His name and past success might lead them to stick with him longer than they would stick with say a QB who put up those 2013 stats without the past success.

 

[Mr. Irrelevant]

That looks pretty grim to me. A 75% chance he is completely done is bad. But it's made worse by the fact he is Eli Manning. His name and past success might lead them to stick with him longer than they would stick with say a QB who put up those 2013 stats without the past success.

I'd say "completely done" is an overstatement since, to be fair, a 6.5 ANY/A season is a relatively high bar to clear - it generally means a top-10-type season even in this pass-happy era, and of course was even more rarefied air back in the '80s and '90s.

But then again, in most non-2QB fantasy leagues a bounce back to the 15-20 range does pretty much nothing for his owners; if he doesn't have a reasonable shot of getting back to QB1 territory then he's a waste of a roster spot. And that's where I'd put his odds at no more than 25%. Even with as far as he tumbled down the rankings last year, I don't think he's a real compelling value in either redraft or dynasty for that reason.

 

[Faust]

Rotoworld:

Eli Manning - QB - Giants

Eli Manning (ankle) said he's 100 percent and could play in a game if he needed to.

"Yeah, 100%, yeah," Manning said. "The ankle, I dont think about it, dont notice it. I go about practice and do everything and theyre not even worried about it. So, it hasnt been an issue. No question I could play tomorrow." Manning participated fully in OTAs and should do the same at mandatory minicamp. As for the new offense, Manning admits "there's still some learning curve."

Source: New York Daily News

Jun 10 - 9:33 AM

 

[Anarchy99]

Here are the career VBD totals for active QBs. I never was the biggest Eli fan, but I thought he would have done a little better fantasy wise . . .

Peyton 1187

Brees 810

Brady 671

Rodgers 526

Rivers 275

Newton 247

Romo 247

Vick 201

Stafford 199

Palmer 151

Ryan 130

Eli 129

Roethlisberger 113

Hasselbeck 99

Cutler 95

Schaub 83

Luck 64

RGIII 49

Dalton 48

Cassel 40

Wilson 25

Sanchez 21

Freeman 17

Kaepernick 3

To the best of my knowledge, that's it. So guys like Flacco have a career VBD score of 0.

 

[Warpig]

I avoid him like the plague every chance I get. I ended up with him as my QB in a 32 team league because the value was worth the gamble. I regret it. And of course I can't get rid of his sorry ###.

 

[Khy]

Now I'll preface this by saying: I'm a Giants fan.

Think on what we know about Eli. When is he at his best? 2 minute drill situations

What is it about the 2 minute drill that makes him so successful, to the point where he was almost unstoppable when the Giants were down by 7 points or less with 2 minutes to go for years? Well for one thing, the offense always became less option routes and more quick hitting throws. Simple, quick timing routes, to get the WR open and let the WR try to make a play with the ball.

McAdoo is coming in this season and is essentially making this the entire scheme. Not just a 2 minute offense but the whole scheme is going to be heavily no huddle and a lot of timing routes in 3 wide sets. Not only does McAdoo's scheme play to Eli's strengths, it also plays to Cruz, OBJ and Randle's strengths as well. Randle's biggest issue last year is that he's an idiot and doesn't understand how to read the complicated option routes in Gilbride's ancient offensive system. He won't be dealing with that anymore, he'll have a set route on each play to run which should help him out a ton. This new offense is going to allow the WRs to make a lot of the big plays instead of relying on forcing downfield passes when they're not open.

Offensive Line has a lot of upgrades this season. Richburg should slot into Center or maybe starting at Guard. Pugh should be even better than last season and he was PFF ranked highest Rookie OT last year. And he only got better as the season progressed. We also brought in Geoff Schwarz who was PFF #8 overall Guard last season.

Going out on a huge limb here, but I'll put out an early bet on Eli Manning as the 2014 NFL Comeback Player of the Year. I don't know that the Giants make the playoffs but I think he has his best season to date this year. Early projection: 4500 yards, 33 TDs and 14 INTs.

 

[BroadwayG]

I believe this will be his last year in new York

 

[Warpig]

He's not accurate. His throws are dead ducks. His WRs make him look better than he is...which isn't very good. They are always having to scoop balls off the ground or off a defenders finger tips. Way to turnover prone. He throws as many INTs as he does TDs. So for people in leagues that penalize for INTs he's almost unstartable. He's comparable to Rex Grossman as far as fantasay scoring (due to the negative points)...yeah...ugh.

But I hope he turns it around for the sake of my team in my 32 team league. Plus I've scooped up Adrien Robinson on the cheap in most of my leagues. Why cheap? Because Eli is his QB.

 

[Khy]

He's not accurate. His throws are dead ducks. His WRs make him look better than he is...which isn't very good. They are always having to scoop balls off the ground or off a defenders finger tips. Way to turnover prone. He throws as many INTs as he does TDs. So for people in leagues that penalize for INTs he's almost unstartable. He's comparable to Rex Grossman as far as fantasay scoring (due to the negative points)...yeah...ugh.

But I hope he turns it around for the sake of my team in my 32 team league. Plus I've scooped up Adrien Robinson on the cheap in most of my leagues. Why cheap? Because Eli is his QB.

Not sure I can really agree with well any of this...

Sure, he's no Drew Brees. But he isn't actually that inaccurate, if you actually watch all of his film from his interceptions a LOT of his INTs he threw were miscommunications due to Gilbride's insanely difficult passing scheme. The past couple years he's usually only been responsible for single digits of the INTs, the rest have usually been WRs running the wrong route tree or reading the option incorrectly. The times he's inaccurate are usually when he is underpressure he'll release the ball early and on occasion it'll sail the receiver and either be picked off or fall incomplete.

As for the dead ducks thing, that I just don't understand at all. He throws a tight spiral from his back if he has too. The last thing I've ever heard someone critique him for was "dead duck passes".

I've said it before above, I think this system really plays a ton to his strengths and I think he'll have a bounce back year. And as my prediction was, his best career year to date.

 

[Bruce Hammond]

You can't spell elite without eli!



You also can't spell terrible without eli.

 

[Khy]

You can't spell elite without eli!



You also can't spell terrible without eli.

Lol, stretching it there aren't you? elite terrible not quite the same thing, I get the joke but literal name in the word vs word jumble not the same thing

 

[Tau837]

You can't spell elite without eli!



You also can't spell terrible without eli.

Lol, stretching it there aren't you? elite terrible not quite the same thing, I get the joke but literal name in the word vs word jumble not the same thing

How about vile?

 

[Anarchy99]

In 10 seasons in the NFL, his base numbers have been pretty mediocre (for someone that has been pimped as a Top 5 QB by some people). Over his career, he's ranked in the Top 5 in key categories as follows:

Total Completions - Once

Completion % - Never

Passing Yards - 3 times

Passing TD - 3 times

YPA - Once

Passer Rating - Never

Game Winning Drives - 3 times

Fumbles - Twice

INT - Five times

Are people still clamoring that he is a mortal lock HOFer?

 

[Khy]

In 10 seasons in the NFL, his base numbers have been pretty mediocre (for someone that has been pimped as a Top 5 QB by some people). Over his career, he's ranked in the Top 5 in key categories as follows:

Total Completions - Once

Completion % - Never

Passing Yards - 3 times

Passing TD - 3 times

YPA - Once

Passer Rating - Never

Game Winning Drives - 3 times

Fumbles - Twice

INT - Five times

Are people still clamoring that he is a mortal lock HOFer?

Only QB with 2 SB wins not in the HoF is Plunkett. Eli might be next. I always love when people cherry pick stats and leave out the important ones to make a whole story out of half a book. But would you agree that Big Ben is a lock for HoF? Lets use your same stat lines on him:

Total Completions - Never

Completion % - 1

Passing Yards - Never

Passing TD - 1

YPA - 5

Passer Rating - 5

Game Winning Drives - 2

INT - 2

Something this doesn't show though... the reason that these stats mean nothing to me. You're ignoring pass attempts. Eli has been Top 5 twice in his career in attempts, Ben has only been Top 10 once and it was last year. Most years he was in the bottom half of the league for pass attempts which makes it a lot LOT easier to be top 5 in things like Completion percentage and YPA and Passer rating. Ben is considered by most a consensus first ballot HoFer but he's really never had any 'Elite" seasons... he's only eclipsed 520 attempts once in his career. And he averages 434.6 a season on his career. Eli eclipsed 520 7/10 seasons and averages 500.8 attempts per season. I'm not trying to argue he is a top 5 QB in this league, point is when the game is on the line he knows how to win. Just like Ben does, it's reasons like that which make him a lock for the HoF in my opinion. Stats are wonderful, but go ask Marino if he'd give back 20,000 of his career passing yards just to have one ring, I bet he'd do it in a heartbeat.

 

[Anarchy99]

In 10 seasons in the NFL, his base numbers have been pretty mediocre (for someone that has been pimped as a Top 5 QB by some people). Over his career, he's ranked in the Top 5 in key categories as follows:

Total Completions - Once

Completion % - Never

Passing Yards - 3 times

Passing TD - 3 times

YPA - Once

Passer Rating - Never

Game Winning Drives - 3 times

Fumbles - Twice

INT - Five times

Are people still clamoring that he is a mortal lock HOFer?

Only QB with 2 SB wins not in the HoF is Plunkett. Eli might be next. I always love when people cherry pick stats and leave out the important ones to make a whole story out of half a book. But would you agree that Big Ben is a lock for HoF? Lets use your same stat lines on him:

Total Completions - Never

Completion % - 1

Passing Yards - Never

Passing TD - 1

YPA - 5

Passer Rating - 5

Game Winning Drives - 2

INT - 2

Something this doesn't show though... the reason that these stats mean nothing to me. You're ignoring pass attempts. Eli has been Top 5 twice in his career in attempts, Ben has only been Top 10 once and it was last year. Most years he was in the bottom half of the league for pass attempts which makes it a lot LOT easier to be top 5 in things like Completion percentage and YPA and Passer rating. Ben is considered by most a consensus first ballot HoFer but he's really never had any 'Elite" seasons... he's only eclipsed 520 attempts once in his career. And he averages 434.6 a season on his career. Eli eclipsed 520 7/10 seasons and averages 500.8 attempts per season. I'm not trying to argue he is a top 5 QB in this league, point is when the game is on the line he knows how to win. Just like Ben does, it's reasons like that which make him a lock for the HoF in my opinion. Stats are wonderful, but go ask Marino if he'd give back 20,000 of his career passing yards just to have one ring, I bet he'd do it in a heartbeat.

I have never been a fan of Eli or Ben getting a free pass to the Hall just because they won two rings. In MY HOF, I wouldn't include them. But I would have a lot fewer players in MY HOF than the one in Canton.

 

[Khy]

In 10 seasons in the NFL, his base numbers have been pretty mediocre (for someone that has been pimped as a Top 5 QB by some people). Over his career, he's ranked in the Top 5 in key categories as follows:

Total Completions - Once

Completion % - Never

Passing Yards - 3 times

Passing TD - 3 times

YPA - Once

Passer Rating - Never

Game Winning Drives - 3 times

Fumbles - Twice

INT - Five times

Are people still clamoring that he is a mortal lock HOFer?

Only QB with 2 SB wins not in the HoF is Plunkett. Eli might be next. I always love when people cherry pick stats and leave out the important ones to make a whole story out of half a book. But would you agree that Big Ben is a lock for HoF? Lets use your same stat lines on him:

Total Completions - Never

Completion % - 1

Passing Yards - Never

Passing TD - 1

YPA - 5

Passer Rating - 5

Game Winning Drives - 2

INT - 2

Something this doesn't show though... the reason that these stats mean nothing to me. You're ignoring pass attempts. Eli has been Top 5 twice in his career in attempts, Ben has only been Top 10 once and it was last year. Most years he was in the bottom half of the league for pass attempts which makes it a lot LOT easier to be top 5 in things like Completion percentage and YPA and Passer rating. Ben is considered by most a consensus first ballot HoFer but he's really never had any 'Elite" seasons... he's only eclipsed 520 attempts once in his career. And he averages 434.6 a season on his career. Eli eclipsed 520 7/10 seasons and averages 500.8 attempts per season. I'm not trying to argue he is a top 5 QB in this league, point is when the game is on the line he knows how to win. Just like Ben does, it's reasons like that which make him a lock for the HoF in my opinion. Stats are wonderful, but go ask Marino if he'd give back 20,000 of his career passing yards just to have one ring, I bet he'd do it in a heartbeat.

I have never been a fan of Eli or Ben getting a free pass to the Hall just because they won two rings. In MY HOF, I wouldn't include them. But I would have a lot fewer players in MY HOF than the one in Canton.

Unfortunately, I doubt many NFL players care if they're in the "Anarchy99 Hall of Fame"

 

[Bruce Hammond]

You can't spell elite without eli!



You also can't spell terrible without eli.

Lol, stretching it there aren't you? elite terrible not quite the same thing, I get the joke but literal name in the word vs word jumble not the same thing

How about vile?

(no offense Khy with your Eli avatar, but that was pretty good)

 

[Anarchy99]

In 10 seasons in the NFL, his base numbers have been pretty mediocre (for someone that has been pimped as a Top 5 QB by some people). Over his career, he's ranked in the Top 5 in key categories as follows:

Total Completions - Once

Completion % - Never

Passing Yards - 3 times

Passing TD - 3 times

YPA - Once

Passer Rating - Never

Game Winning Drives - 3 times

Fumbles - Twice

INT - Five times

Are people still clamoring that he is a mortal lock HOFer?

Only QB with 2 SB wins not in the HoF is Plunkett. Eli might be next. I always love when people cherry pick stats and leave out the important ones to make a whole story out of half a book. But would you agree that Big Ben is a lock for HoF? Lets use your same stat lines on him:

Total Completions - Never

Completion % - 1

Passing Yards - Never

Passing TD - 1

YPA - 5

Passer Rating - 5

Game Winning Drives - 2

INT - 2

Something this doesn't show though... the reason that these stats mean nothing to me. You're ignoring pass attempts. Eli has been Top 5 twice in his career in attempts, Ben has only been Top 10 once and it was last year. Most years he was in the bottom half of the league for pass attempts which makes it a lot LOT easier to be top 5 in things like Completion percentage and YPA and Passer rating. Ben is considered by most a consensus first ballot HoFer but he's really never had any 'Elite" seasons... he's only eclipsed 520 attempts once in his career. And he averages 434.6 a season on his career. Eli eclipsed 520 7/10 seasons and averages 500.8 attempts per season. I'm not trying to argue he is a top 5 QB in this league, point is when the game is on the line he knows how to win. Just like Ben does, it's reasons like that which make him a lock for the HoF in my opinion. Stats are wonderful, but go ask Marino if he'd give back 20,000 of his career passing yards just to have one ring, I bet he'd do it in a heartbeat.

I have never been a fan of Eli or Ben getting a free pass to the Hall just because they won two rings. In MY HOF, I wouldn't include them. But I would have a lot fewer players in MY HOF than the one in Canton.

Unfortunately, I doubt many NFL players care if they're in the "Anarchy99 Hall of Fame"

Even if we ignore the volume passing stats, Big Ben hasn't racked up a ton of consideration in MVP balloting or Pro Bowl voting. Granted, Peyton and Brady had a lot to do with that, but for someone who is supposed to be an all time great QB and well respected by his peers, one would have thought that he would have garnered a lot more votes for things. I know, that is mostly fluff, but still a consideration. The same holds true for Eli too, I suppose.

 

[Faust]

Tom Coughlin: New offense will refresh Eli Manning

 

[cstu]

Tom Coughlin: New offense will refresh Eli Manning

Eli had had one season with a VBD over 20, don't expect him to suddenly be a difference maker.

 

[John 14:6]

Tom Coughlin: New offense will refresh Eli Manning

Eli had had one season with a VBD over 20, don't expect him to suddenly be a difference maker.

I've been following this more so out of concern for his WRs. I have Cruz in a couple leagues who had two very good seasons before this last one. We don't need Eli to be a difference maker in order for his weapons to be.

 

[yetiknight]

I'm also a Giants fans, so......I could care less how this affects someone's fantasy team. That being said, I would expect a short window before Eli can really get the new offense running smooth. By the end of the season I think they will be doing quite well as a team. Coughlin has a real shot to make one or two runs at a championship with Eli and this offense has to be the key. If the offense never gets going, they will both be gone/benched by the end of 2015. The front office should(and probably does) feel like they have done their part.

The fantasy side is not really worth discussing. I think Eli has a chance to get to the cusp of top 10, but that is his ceiling. While the offense may generate more consistency, I think it will help the Giants as a team way more than fantasy owners. Although it should create potential for Cruz to reach top 5 to 10 receiver territory. Defense might look better too, but that is basically unpredictable at this point with all the new faces and SOS.

Again, I'm a fan of the team, but if you are drafting any Giants players for fantasy, you are hoping for value at that pick. My guess is Eli will be picked up in spots all season for matchup purposes. Those will be hit or miss. And if he throws 20+ interceptions again, he will be a Cardinal in 2015.

 

[cstu]

Tom Coughlin: New offense will refresh Eli Manning

Eli had had one season with a VBD over 20, don't expect him to suddenly be a difference maker.

I've been following this more so out of concern for his WRs. I have Cruz in a couple leagues who had two very good seasons before this last one. We don't need Eli to be a difference maker in order for his weapons to be.

I would expect the usual yardage production (~4000) and a bounce back to 25-30 TD's. I think the receivers will be fine and Cruz should have his usual 80/1100 and close to 10 TD's (high WR2, low WR1).

 

[Faust]

Rotoworld:

The Giants are installing a "quick-hitting passing attack that is predicated on timing" under new OC Ben McAdoo.

Per beat writer Jordan Raanan, the biggest benefit may be simplification of route concepts for players like Rueben Randle, while the offensive line isn't asked to hold blocks as long. The Chargers took a similar approach with Philip Rivers last year, and it paid off handsomely en route to NFL Comeback Player of the Year honors. It remains to be seen whether Eli Manning possesses the short to intermediate accuracy to make a Rivers-like late-career leap.

Source: Newark Star-Ledger

Jun 23 - 1:19 PM

 

[False Start]

Rotoworld:

The Giants are installing a "quick-hitting passing attack that is predicated on timing" under new OC Ben McAdoo.

Per beat writer Jordan Raanan, the biggest benefit may be simplification of route concepts for players like Rueben Randle, while the offensive line isn't asked to hold blocks as long. The Chargers took a similar approach with Philip Rivers last year, and it paid off handsomely en route to NFL Comeback Player of the Year honors. It remains to be seen whether Eli Manning possesses the short to intermediate accuracy to make a Rivers-like late-career leap.

Source: Newark Star-Ledger

Jun 23 - 1:19 PM

Watch out for the Giants this year. Cruz, Randle and Beckham? That is going to be a group of WRS we will be talking a lot of good things about. Cruz is Cruz and Randle showed he has what it takes to do good things in this league and Beckham was a first rounder for a reason. Eli had a horrible offensive line and no #2 WR with how Nicks was playing. Eli is not a good QB for fantasy purposes but he is good enough to at least hit WRs in stride more time than not. They should have a better running game to help out Eli too so that is some added relief.

 

[Tau837]

Rotoworld:

The Giants are installing a "quick-hitting passing attack that is predicated on timing" under new OC Ben McAdoo.

Per beat writer Jordan Raanan, the biggest benefit may be simplification of route concepts for players like Rueben Randle, while the offensive line isn't asked to hold blocks as long. The Chargers took a similar approach with Philip Rivers last year, and it paid off handsomely en route to NFL Comeback Player of the Year honors. It remains to be seen whether Eli Manning possesses the short to intermediate accuracy to make a Rivers-like late-career leap.

Source: Newark Star-Ledger

Jun 23 - 1:19 PM

It might help Eli, but he's never been as good as Rivers, so I wouldn't expect similar results.

 

[Khy]

Rotoworld:

The Giants are installing a "quick-hitting passing attack that is predicated on timing" under new OC Ben McAdoo.

Per beat writer Jordan Raanan, the biggest benefit may be simplification of route concepts for players like Rueben Randle, while the offensive line isn't asked to hold blocks as long. The Chargers took a similar approach with Philip Rivers last year, and it paid off handsomely en route to NFL Comeback Player of the Year honors. It remains to be seen whether Eli Manning possesses the short to intermediate accuracy to make a Rivers-like late-career leap.

Source: Newark Star-Ledger

Jun 23 - 1:19 PM

It might help Eli, but he's never been as good as Rivers, so I wouldn't expect similar results.

Say what you will, but Rivers also played most of his formative years in Norv Turner's offense which is incredibly QB friendly. Eli's played almost his entire career under Captain Crunch in a terribly unfriendly to QB system. I think people are going to be surprised with Eli's numbers this year.

 

[Tau837]

Rotoworld:

The Giants are installing a "quick-hitting passing attack that is predicated on timing" under new OC Ben McAdoo.

Per beat writer Jordan Raanan, the biggest benefit may be simplification of route concepts for players like Rueben Randle, while the offensive line isn't asked to hold blocks as long. The Chargers took a similar approach with Philip Rivers last year, and it paid off handsomely en route to NFL Comeback Player of the Year honors. It remains to be seen whether Eli Manning possesses the short to intermediate accuracy to make a Rivers-like late-career leap.

Source: Newark Star-Ledger

Jun 23 - 1:19 PM

It might help Eli, but he's never been as good as Rivers, so I wouldn't expect similar results.

Say what you will, but Rivers also played most of his formative years in Norv Turner's offense which is incredibly QB friendly. Eli's played almost his entire career under Captain Crunch in a terribly unfriendly to QB system. I think people are going to be surprised with Eli's numbers this year.

So you are expecting Eli to put up numbers this season that are similar to Rivers' numbers last season? Good luck with that.

 

[Khy]

Rotoworld:

The Giants are installing a "quick-hitting passing attack that is predicated on timing" under new OC Ben McAdoo.

Per beat writer Jordan Raanan, the biggest benefit may be simplification of route concepts for players like Rueben Randle, while the offensive line isn't asked to hold blocks as long. The Chargers took a similar approach with Philip Rivers last year, and it paid off handsomely en route to NFL Comeback Player of the Year honors. It remains to be seen whether Eli Manning possesses the short to intermediate accuracy to make a Rivers-like late-career leap.

Source: Newark Star-Ledger

Jun 23 - 1:19 PM

It might help Eli, but he's never been as good as Rivers, so I wouldn't expect similar results.

Say what you will, but Rivers also played most of his formative years in Norv Turner's offense which is incredibly QB friendly. Eli's played almost his entire career under Captain Crunch in a terribly unfriendly to QB system. I think people are going to be surprised with Eli's numbers this year.

So you are expecting Eli to put up numbers this season that are similar to Rivers' numbers last season? Good luck with that.

...where did I say that?

EDIT: I actually do fully believe his numbers will come close to that, for fantasy purposes at least. But no where in my quote above did I come even remotely close to stating that, you simply put words into my mouth.

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=707692&hl=%2Bspotlight+%2Bgiants

In the Giants spotlight thread I stated that my projections for Eli this season were 352/550 4400 yards 34 TDs 15 INTs... I still firmly believe that's well within the realm of possibility. It was only 2 years ago that he threw for 5000 yards and 29 TDs, I don't think 4400 yards and 34 is out of the realm of possibility. In the above link you'll see all my reasoning for why I feel these are very reasonable projections. Feel free to make the generic statement of or simply as I'm sure you will. But the whole point of these boards is to project people. It's not like I'm projecting him for 5000 yards and 50 TDs or something that outside the realm of possibility. I just truly feel that he will thrive and have a shot at Comeback Player this season.

 

[Tau837]

Rotoworld:

The Giants are installing a "quick-hitting passing attack that is predicated on timing" under new OC Ben McAdoo.

Per beat writer Jordan Raanan, the biggest benefit may be simplification of route concepts for players like Rueben Randle, while the offensive line isn't asked to hold blocks as long. The Chargers took a similar approach with Philip Rivers last year, and it paid off handsomely en route to NFL Comeback Player of the Year honors. It remains to be seen whether Eli Manning possesses the short to intermediate accuracy to make a Rivers-like late-career leap.

Source: Newark Star-Ledger

Jun 23 - 1:19 PM

It might help Eli, but he's never been as good as Rivers, so I wouldn't expect similar results.

Say what you will, but Rivers also played most of his formative years in Norv Turner's offense which is incredibly QB friendly. Eli's played almost his entire career under Captain Crunch in a terribly unfriendly to QB system. I think people are going to be surprised with Eli's numbers this year.

So you are expecting Eli to put up numbers this season that are similar to Rivers' numbers last season? Good luck with that.

...where did I say that?

EDIT: I actually do fully believe his numbers will come close to that, for fantasy purposes at least. But no where in my quote above did I come even remotely close to stating that, you simply put words into my mouth.

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=707692&hl=%2Bspotlight+%2Bgiants

In the Giants spotlight thread I stated that my projections for Eli this season were 352/550 4400 yards 34 TDs 15 INTs... I still firmly believe that's well within the realm of possibility. It was only 2 years ago that he threw for 5000 yards and 29 TDs, I don't think 4400 yards and 34 is out of the realm of possibility. In the above link you'll see all my reasoning for why I feel these are very reasonable projections. Feel free to make the generic statement of or simply as I'm sure you will. But the whole point of these boards is to project people. It's not like I'm projecting him for 5000 yards and 50 TDs or something that outside the realm of possibility. I just truly feel that he will thrive and have a shot at Comeback Player this season.

You are projecting him for:

1. His second highest passing yardage total (he has only thrown for more than 4021 yards once)

2. His career high in passing TDs (top 3 previous totals: 31, 29, 27)

3. A career low interception percentage of 2.7%

You're right, the point of the spotlight threads is to put forth projections, and you may be right. But I think the odds of your projections being close to accurate are extremely low.