So it sounds like he is at least willing to "trade" you for him instead of just pulling him back and resetting as an honest mistake.
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Dynasty Value Discussion Thread (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter spider321
- Start date
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Yeah - which would be fine, if all I lost was $911
But I also spent that $911 on 1 dude instead of the 5 other claims I had in. A LB, TE, 3 WR. I checked and would have won all those bids.
This is the 1st waiver run of the year. Always the biggest since UDFA rookies are in it, guys coming off injury, etc. 50+ claims total.
Getting my FAAB back does nothing to replace losing that depth. I was willing to suffer with a thin bench to shoot my shot on QJ, but if I lose QJ then I basically miss the entire 1st waiver run.
That’s so messed up. I’ll send him a note spelling that out and see what he proposes. I have a sinking feeling that I’m gonna get hosed here by doing the nice guy thing.
Since he is talking about making a trade back for him "at a profit" then there is no real nice guy aspect. Explain what you did about missing on other depth pieces so QJ is going to more expensive than just getting your $911 back in order get a "profit".
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Yeah, I’m wordsmithing it now. I noticed he claimed 3 of the dudes I was going to - that’s a nice starting point.
You make some good points but still seems a bit hard to think he's going to be more then TE2/depth for the next two years with the deal they just gave Schultz. I'm not even much of a Schultz guy, but they paid him well. The fact you are raising about Stover being fairly new to the position makes him taking over anytime soon even more remote to me, though does make his long term upside more appealing.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Follow-up:
Offered him QJ for 3 players he just claimed (2 of whom I woulda had if I didn’t get QJ) + $700 FAAB back, + a future 3rd to make up for the other 3 players I missed.
Two likely ST WR, a 33 y/o LB, a 3rd & $700
He said it was too much. That he’d just have to live with his mistake. And rejected it.
Man, let me tell you I woulda broken my keyboard to accept that deal, and I’m not even a QJ guy.
Ah well - happy that happened, as now I don’t have to cut down as many roster spots. And I get to keep QJ.
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BigJim®
Footballguy
Early 2nd is definitely fair value, but I think motivation may be a problem for many owners. IIRC, I used a mid/late 2nd to draft him and it would be really hard to justify that investment + 2 year wait only to cash out for a stab at a different prospect to hold/wait on. Much more rewarding to have Zamir pick + wait be validated, even if risk of ultimate failure remains.
TVT 0 N S T A
Footballguy
Really that seems like an honest deal and I have tried everything in my power to add QJ to my rosters due to my expert analysis of "Someone has to catch the balls Herbert is throwing".Follow-up:
Offered him QJ for 3 players he just claimed (2 of whom I woulda had if I didn’t get QJ) + $700 FAAB back, + a future 3rd to make up for the other 3 players I missed.
Two likely ST WR, a 33 y/o LB, a 3rd & $700
He said it was too much. That he’d just have to live with his mistake. And rejected it.
Man, let me tell you I woulda broken my keyboard to accept that deal, and I’m not even a QJ guy.
Ah well - happy that happened, as now I don’t have to cut down as many roster spots. And I get to keep QJ.
It seems like the other guy wanted to have his cake and eat it too. I am always curious when someone says [I'd like to reverse it for a profit to you]. By curious, I ask myself but never the other person because sometimes it's best to just drop it. In the end, you got your guy! Good for you!
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Yeah - I actually tried to convince him that i *MUCH* preferred the QJ side, and that it pained me to to send the offer.Really that seems like an honest deal and I have tried everything in my power to add QJ to my rosters due to my expert analysis of "Someone has to catch the balls Herbert is throwing".Follow-up:
Offered him QJ for 3 players he just claimed (2 of whom I woulda had if I didn’t get QJ) + $700 FAAB back, + a future 3rd to make up for the other 3 players I missed.
Two likely ST WR, a 33 y/o LB, a 3rd & $700
He said it was too much. That he’d just have to live with his mistake. And rejected it.
Man, let me tell you I woulda broken my keyboard to accept that deal, and I’m not even a QJ guy.
Ah well - happy that happened, as now I don’t have to cut down as many roster spots. And I get to keep QJ.
It seems like the other guy wanted to have his cake and eat it too. I am always curious when someone says [I'd like to reverse it for a profit to you]. By curious, I ask myself but never the other person because sometimes it's best to just drop it. In the end, you got your guy! Good for you!
And yeah - the receivers were Grant (Indy) & Thrash, 2 undersized likely KR/PR types. The LB is 33 y/o Van Noy. And he claimed all 3 that morning - and had I not gotten QJ, both receivers would be on my team as I had bigger bids in.
Seemed like it made the most sense - got him his accidental drop back at what amounts to a 3rd round pick + $700 of fake money. He had a $2200 bankroll, so it’s not like that was a concern either.
I honestly felt like that was me breaking even (although the LB I’d bid on was better, and I woulda had Jauan Jennings & a S as well, thus the 3rd round pick)
How that’s “too much” for a dude he took 1.09 last year & is likely the starting X WR on LAC is a mystery, but after a day of stress over it & then going out of my way to help, I’m not gonna twist anyone’s arm just for me to lose a quality player.
Like you said, imma drop it. Their loss. My gain.
Yeah, I don’t think he’d considered that just giving me FAAB $ back, even if more than I spent, doesn’t at all make up for my missing the 6 players I’d have claimed on the most important WW run of the year.
And since we can’t go back in time & unscrew that up, I offered something fair.
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Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
This is where I’m at. I have Bijan but would sell him for the 1.01 in any format. Just for the longevity & production WRs & QBs have.
titusbramble
Footballguy
Anyone seen any Derrick Henry trades recently, or at least since he moved to the Ravens?
TVT 0 N S T A
Footballguy
I am taking Bijan over 1.1
Anyone saying they would take a stud WR over a stud RB, I don't understand. Why are highly drafted RB's always the apple of the fantasy football world's eye? People were considering JSN and Addison as studs but consensus had Bijan (and even Jahmyr Gibbs) above those players. The scarcity is a reason top tier RB's hold value and are valued over top WR's in drafts. Additionally, you need a quality QB to make an elite WR.
The top WR's seem to be somewhat fluid - Tyreek Hill, CeeDee Lamb, Justin Jefferson, Jamar Chase and the drop off from them to AJ Brown, ARSB. 7 WR's scored 280+ points last season, 3 RB's did it... Christian McCaffrey is a pretty great example of this. I think you would take him on your team the last 7 years over [your WR here].
*Edit*
Calvin Johnson - 9 year career - 2396 total fantasy ppr points - 266 points/year
Christian McCaffrey - 7 year career - 2050 total fantasy ppr points - 293 points/year
This is includes the two seasons that CMC was injured 2020-2022. Had he been healthy - the stat wouldn't even be close.
Anyone saying they would take a stud WR over a stud RB, I don't understand. Why are highly drafted RB's always the apple of the fantasy football world's eye? People were considering JSN and Addison as studs but consensus had Bijan (and even Jahmyr Gibbs) above those players. The scarcity is a reason top tier RB's hold value and are valued over top WR's in drafts. Additionally, you need a quality QB to make an elite WR.
The top WR's seem to be somewhat fluid - Tyreek Hill, CeeDee Lamb, Justin Jefferson, Jamar Chase and the drop off from them to AJ Brown, ARSB. 7 WR's scored 280+ points last season, 3 RB's did it... Christian McCaffrey is a pretty great example of this. I think you would take him on your team the last 7 years over [your WR here].
*Edit*
Calvin Johnson - 9 year career - 2396 total fantasy ppr points - 266 points/year
Christian McCaffrey - 7 year career - 2050 total fantasy ppr points - 293 points/year
This is includes the two seasons that CMC was injured 2020-2022. Had he been healthy - the stat wouldn't even be close.
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Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Well, for one we’re in year 2 of Bijan, and he’s not quite CMC status.
The question was whether we’d move Bijan, not whether we’d move an elite RB.
And for 2, pick 1.01 might be a QB. In SF I’m taking Caleb.
It’s personal preference, and case by case depending on team needs.
To the OPs question, I think it would be a fair trade regardless. Value-wise, that’s pretty even - but preference is in the eye of the beholder as to what one does with that pick.
TVT 0 N S T A
Footballguy
Let's not take a lot from Bijan last year and the way Arthur Smith tried to deploy a 3-headed monster of Tyler Algeier, Cordarrell Patterson and Bijan Robinson. This year, I expect Bijan to take a pretty sizeable leap and he looks to be pretty good when given opportunities.
2017 - CMC rookie year he had 230 fantasy points
2023 - Bijan rookie year he had 252 fantasy points
I am only talking 1 QB - standard or PPR.
I answered earlier I'd prefer 1.1 on some teams but Bijan on most and the teams I'd prefer the 1.1 are teams that are very deep at Rb so in that case I would side with what is either more of a position of need or the position that offered more longevity, durability and your own point you made below
*****
I'm not one of those people who viewed those WR's as studs, more like WR2/3 types, but more to the point those WR's don't hold a candle to the Marvin or the top WR's in this class. Not comparable. If those WR's were in this class they'd be WR5 and 6 and mid to late firsts. I argued all off-season last year, starting in January, that Gibbs was the clear cut #2 last year, none of this is after the fact analysis. Those highly drafted WR's last year were just not on that level of the one's this year.
I would imagine if you studied the top Rb's and WR's each year you'd see a lot more change in the top 10 or so for RB's then WR's.
TVT 0 N S T A
Footballguy
It always seems to be CMC is a mainstay, where even Jefferson/Chase/Hill/Lamb are very fluid and the point differential between one of them and a guy like AJ Brown isn't incredibly high. It just, to me, seems more difficult to get a workhorse RB, especially today.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
A lot of that has more to do with offensive coaching philosophy than player though.
I’d say it’s TBD if Barkley is still a “workhorse” in PHI, for example.
Pollard was expected my many to be the heir apparent & get the full load in DAL. That never manifested.
Will Henry approach 300 touches in BAL, or will they mix in other dudes & still have LJax getting designed runs?
Shanahan has CMC & uses CMC extensively. But outside of SF there’s been a dramatic shift.
And yeah, this makes an awesome case for CMC, but we’re not exactly sure what to expect from Bijan in ATL. I certainly expected him to be a workhorse, especially under Smith - and then we saw what happened last year.
The main take-away is that coaching philosophy has shifted away from workhorses and more to RBBC.
So in general, I think a lot of folks believe WRs are safer investments - especially elite rookie WRs. And especially pre-NFL draft when you don’t know what team/coaching situation they’ll land in.
There are really no wrong answers - personal preference & team needs dictate who would deal Bijan for the 1.01 - like others, I’d do it in most situations but not all.
CMC, when healthy, has for sure been a mainstay but we've seen that with WR's over the years as well. For instance Antonio Brown IIRC was the #1 WR 5 out of 6 seasons in a row, #2 the other year. As Bijan has not risen to level, yet, of a CMC I was more referencing the landscape of the top 10 year and year out where WR's seem more consistent members of that group and RB's come and go.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Not to mention WRs tend to age more gracefully.
Guys like Zeke who can produce late in their careers are an anomaly, where most just fall off a cliff.
Elite WRs tend to be very productive for longer. Look at Davante Adams, TMc, Deebo, etc.
dipandglide
Footballguy
dipandglide
Footballguy
Your team makeup should dictate whether or not he's a buy or sell. I sold White for a 2025 2nd and 3rd in superflex leagues, where he was my RB4 or worse. I don't see a huge ceiling, and the picks give me more flexibility.
Early 2nd is definitely fair value, but I think motivation may be a problem for many owners. IIRC, I used a mid/late 2nd to draft him and it would be really hard to justify that investment + 2 year wait only to cash out for a stab at a different prospect to hold/wait on. Much more rewarding to have Zamir pick + wait be validated, even if risk of ultimate failure remains.
Marauder
Footballguy
I probably made a mistake in using the word stud, since that can be interpreted differently by different people. In no universe would I have considered JSN and Addison as studs when they came out. They were both drafted in the second half of round 1 in the NFL draft. In fact, my 1 QB rookie rankings last year had Bijan and Gibbs as the top two with JSN as a distant third. I was trading up in the first round to get in a position to get Gibbs.
The question was about Bijan vs MHJR, who is a much higher rated player than any WR last year. In the startup ADP's I've seen recently, Chase, JJ and Lamb are currently the top 3 with Bijan at 4 and ARSB and MHJR right behind him at 5 and 6, so we're talking about players who the fantasy community have relatively close together in value. In those cases, where it's a close call, I'll side with the WR.
BigJim®
Footballguy
I agree with that.
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Yeah sorry was at the airport. Fair criticism. 12 team, not SF. 1/2 ppr. Pretty loaded at WR, and would really to improve my good but not great RBs.
dipandglide
Footballguy
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
1/2 PPR changes this a lot - agree tilts scoring to RB. And agree you’d need more than 1.01 for me to sell him in this format.
Marauder
Footballguy
Yeah, 1/2 PPR makes a big difference.
Whenever somebody posts a question without any details, I always assume 12 team, 1QB, 1 PPR.
TripItUp
Footballguy
Any strong opinions on Chig and Juwan Johnson in dynasty? I'm rostering both behind Njoku and deciding what to do with them.
Both performed better down the stretch last year, Juwan in particular. Chig is still young and has upside IMHO, but interested to hear if any other dynasty guys have strong opinions on these backup TE types in deep leagues.
Both performed better down the stretch last year, Juwan in particular. Chig is still young and has upside IMHO, but interested to hear if any other dynasty guys have strong opinions on these backup TE types in deep leagues.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I like them both. In a 12 team league I have both of them behind Pitts, and posted them both to trade bait.
I can’t get any takers.
In a 16 team TE-P league I can’t pry Chig from the shareholder, and Chig is his 4th TE.
To say opinions vary, yeah - it’s a wide range. They’re both sneaky good later picks for redraft leagues if you go TE freefall.
Just my opinion but I think you’d regret that in about 6 months, even if your 1.02 is a hit.
I think Bijan takes the league by storm this season.
I play in a small TEP and have garnered zero interest for Juwan. Just gonna keep him as a bye week fill at this point behind McBride.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I’m hoping so. I’m also considering offering him + X for Puka + Dak.
Or maybe targeting a lesser QB with a lesser RB.
Always fun to consider the blockbusters though.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Yeah, JuJon should command a decent return - it’s weird how underrated he is.
Except when you try to acquire him. lol
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Big Nate
Footballguy
I think both Chig and Johnson are holds where the value comes after a good week or 2 during the season. I'm still holding Chig and may look to flip him to a TE needy team after a good couple weeks. The worry with Chig is his target competition now that they signed Ridley. Should open things up but he will need to make the most of his 4-5 targets a game to be viable for fantasy. I like him but I worry he's the 3rd/4th target on the team. I watched a few TEN games at the end of the season last year and Chig can be quiet all game until they run hurry up or need to push the ball down the field. Then all of a sudden he goes from 1 catch for 12 to 4 for 75yards in 3 plays. I'm curious to see how the roll out their personnel this year as Chig is mainly in on passing downs.
As you mention he's still young at 24 so hopefully he keeps improving. If there happens to be an injury to Ridley or Hopkins that could help his value.
I am guessing this is because the people that have him understand his value which is why they have him. And those that don't have him think he should be basically free because........well, he isn't consistent enough and has no flare/name/whatever hype needed to increase his price.
It's a standard those that have him value him a ton more than those that don't.
not sure Zeke is the example I'd use there, his production kinda did fall off a cliff
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
He had some value last year though.
Was going to mention that yesterday, he may not have fallen off the cliff, but he started rolling down the hill quickly in his age 25 season.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
And yet he’s still one of the better examples of RB longevity.
I agree with the big picture point you are making, but I don't specifically agree that Zeke is one of the better examples of longevity. He's been able to be useful, but pretty much an entirely different player after just 4 seasons, one abbreviated due to suspension. I view Zeke as more of a reason to hurry up and get out by around that age 26 season for most RB's. Which is a basic rule of thumb, not hard and fast, sometimes want to exit sooner, sometimes later, depends on how the RB is used and how much.
Him or CMC are the gold standards IMO and I've contended for awhile that CMC benefitted from missing a large chunk of b2b seasons.
But even Henry moved down to a pure 50% snap player last year and I'm not nearly as bullish on him as most in fantasy, though I think he'll score a lot of TD's.
