Do the Miami Dolphins have a right to ask Tua Tags to play under a 5th year option? (2 Viewers)

[Ministry of Pain]

Is Miami Dolphins QB Tua Tagovailoa Worth $50 Million Per Year?? | The Rich Eisen Show

Rich Eisen and the guys debate if Miami Dolphins QB Tua Tagovailoa is worth $50M per year.Tune in to the Emmy-nominated Rich Eisen Show live for FREE on The ...

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They discuss it on the Rich Eisen Show

 

[Ministry of Pain]

BREAKING: Tua Tagovailoa has rejected contract offer from the Miami Dolphins

What is the latest update on Tua Tagovailoa’s contract extension?

www.thephinsider.com

Oh boy!



-ESPN’s Jeremy Fowler reported one Dolphins contract offer to Tua Tagovailoa that apparently hasn’t met the QB’s expectations.He said Sunday morning on SportsCenter, as transcribed by Bleacher Report:“He has missed some OTA* time, I've confirmed, and really it could depend on how negotiations go with his contract as to whether he starts to show up or is there full time."They have had contract talks, preliminary talks. I'm told that the Dolphins have made at least one contract offer but we know how these things go; the offer apparently hasn't been good enough or he'd probably be there full time. So, the market is pretty set. We saw Jared Goff, $50-plus million a year, that's going to apply to Tua and Trevor Lawrence."*Dolphins OTAs start Monday, so I believe he simply means offseason workouts that precede what are officially labeled as OTAs.

 

[Snotbubbles]

How is Philly feeling right now after they paid Jalen Hurts $250M?
I can go down this list but IMHO the only QB that really earned all this money and deserved almost every red cent was Joe Burrow and he didn't start or finish the season

Miami cannot extend and lock up money with Tua. McDaniel has made Tua look good in his system but when things are not perfect then you tend to see how limited Tua is.
His mobility is questionable post broken hip socket which should have made Miami gun shy at the Draft
Rumor has it that the owner wanted Herbert and Grier flat told him "we're taking Tua" and waived off the owner...is that true? I've heard it on local sports talk a couple times

If Tua does not want to play under his 5th year option, then i think Miami needs to trade him, if he's worth $50M then Miami should get a decent pick for him.
Tua is accurate but he cannot make a play when the pocket breaks down, that's not a minor flaw, it's a major problem especially in these games vs better teams.
If you watched Tua when he was stepping up in the pocket and Connor Williams at Center and Robert Hunt at RG were clearing out the middle so he had a wide open window to step up and throw the football between the hash marks in a way I have never seen before and its because Tua is not that big and you can't ask him to throw over the DL

I'm happy with paying Hurts his money. It's not like Philly had a backup plan at the time. Besides, Hurts cap hits are $13.5M, $21.7M, $31.7M over the next 3 seasons, then they can move on from him if they want to.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

How is Philly feeling right now after they paid Jalen Hurts $250M?
I can go down this list but IMHO the only QB that really earned all this money and deserved almost every red cent was Joe Burrow and he didn't start or finish the season

Miami cannot extend and lock up money with Tua. McDaniel has made Tua look good in his system but when things are not perfect then you tend to see how limited Tua is.
His mobility is questionable post broken hip socket which should have made Miami gun shy at the Draft
Rumor has it that the owner wanted Herbert and Grier flat told him "we're taking Tua" and waived off the owner...is that true? I've heard it on local sports talk a couple times

If Tua does not want to play under his 5th year option, then i think Miami needs to trade him, if he's worth $50M then Miami should get a decent pick for him.
Tua is accurate but he cannot make a play when the pocket breaks down, that's not a minor flaw, it's a major problem especially in these games vs better teams.
If you watched Tua when he was stepping up in the pocket and Connor Williams at Center and Robert Hunt at RG were clearing out the middle so he had a wide open window to step up and throw the football between the hash marks in a way I have never seen before and its because Tua is not that big and you can't ask him to throw over the DL

I'm happy with paying Hurts his money. It's not like Philly had a backup plan at the time. Besides, Hurts cap hits are $13.5M, $21.7M, $31.7M over the next 3 seasons, then they can move on from him if they want to.

It is working for Philly, I applaud the GM/Pres-Howie over there, I've been very complimentary in the Philly team thread and I have you all as the odds on favorite to win the Super Bowl this year. The 2 DBs in the Draft reminds me of when Tampa had a young nucleus in the Secondary all on rookie contracts when Brady came in 2020

I still don't think Tua is worth $50M a season and Miami has lost a ton of talent and has yet to replace it. Achane is the only draft pick so far in '22 and '23 under Coach Mikey that has panned out. I understand Grier calls the shots but Mike is standing there most of the way and has a lot of input.

Miami needs to hit on their draft picks just to tread water this year.

 

[SoBeDad]

I still don't think Tua is worth $50M a season and Miami has lost a ton of talent and has yet to replace it. Achane is the only draft pick so far in '22 and '23 under Coach Mikey that has panned out. I understand Grier calls the shots but Mike is standing there most of the way and has a lot of input.

I keep thinking this is the year we'll know if Tua is the franchise QB. He's gotten better every year, but still come up short in big games. Now we're in year 5. Mike hasn't gotten Tua the big over the middle WRs and TEs like Brees had for many years, in addition to dynamic RBs in the passing game. Jonnu is an improvement at TE, and OBJ provides a tad more size and savvy and skill than Berrios. Mike's game plan has relied too much on high level of difficulty passes downfield, not enough shorter easy passes like Brees had. We DO have a dynamic pass catching RB in Achane, but they don't take advantage of it like Payton did in NO. Remember that high-point TD reception Achane having the BAL game? The kid has receiving chops, Mostert is also a good receiver.

Grier got Tua 2 great WRs in Waddle and Hill. That might be as important as what Mike has done for Tua's game. Mike is a good coach and Tua a good QB, but neither has my complete confidence as a QB and coach of the future. They're the best we've had in a while. BTW, the Tua-Brees comp is accurate in sofar as accuracy is concerned, and inability to extend plays with their feet. Brees is ahead of Tua in decision making.

Regarding Mike and draft picks ... he hasn't had many until this year. Ezukanma and Skylar in 2022, TBD depending on Easy E's neck injury. Achane, and Higgins & Ryan Hayes in 2023, 3rd, 6th, and 7th. Higgins got scooped by ARI, bad gamble by Grier as he came on late in the year for ARI. The DEF players, Cam Smith and Channing Tindall, busts so far.

I'm not sure Tua is worth $50M/yr, injury hx Isa big part of my concern. It's not easy to find good QBs. They can franchise him for 2 years starting in 2025 if they're still not sure, a year by year decision.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Any team has the right to ask a player to play under their contract terms.

It’s a bit of a silly question. The contract was signed, right? By both parties, I assume?

Ok, so… yes.

Tua has had 1 healthy season, and has not yet shown the ability to play in cold weather. In that division that’s kind of a problem. I think MIA is hesitant to back up the Brinks truck.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

I still don't think Tua is worth $50M a season and Miami has lost a ton of talent and has yet to replace it. Achane is the only draft pick so far in '22 and '23 under Coach Mikey that has panned out. I understand Grier calls the shots but Mike is standing there most of the way and has a lot of input.

I keep thinking this is the year we'll know if Tua is the franchise QB. He's gotten better every year, but still come up short in big games. Now we're in year 5. Mike hasn't gotten Tua the big over the middle WRs and TEs like Brees had for many years, in addition to dynamic RBs in the passing game. Jonnu is an improvement at TE, and OBJ provides a tad more size and savvy and skill than Berrios. Mike's game plan has relied too much on high level of difficulty passes downfield, not enough shorter easy passes like Brees had. We DO have a dynamic pass catching RB in Achane, but they don't take advantage of it like Payton did in NO. Remember that high-point TD reception Achane having the BAL game? The kid has receiving chops, Mostert is also a good receiver.

Grier got Tua 2 great WRs in Waddle and Hill. That might be as important as what Mike has done for Tua's game. Mike is a good coach and Tua a good QB, but neither has my complete confidence as a QB and coach of the future. They're the best we've had in a while. BTW, the Tua-Brees comp is accurate in sofar as accuracy is concerned, and inability to extend plays with their feet. Brees is ahead of Tua in decision making.

Regarding Mike and draft picks ... he hasn't had many until this year. Ezukanma and Skylar in 2022, TBD depending on Easy E's neck injury. Achane, and Higgins & Ryan Hayes in 2023, 3rd, 6th, and 7th. Higgins got scooped by ARI, bad gamble by Grier as he came on late in the year for ARI. The DEF players, Cam Smith and Channing Tindall, busts so far.

I'm not sure Tua is worth $50M/yr, injury hx Isa big part of my concern. It's not easy to find good QBs. They can franchise him for 2 years starting in 2025 if they're still not sure, a year by year decision.

Cam Smith was in Vic Fangio's doghouse for reasons I'm not clear on, meaning I don't want to make something up but as i understand it, Cam got in his doghouse and was never able to recover from that while Fangio was here, Grier wasn't the least bit upset when Fangs jumped to Philly, just saying...

-I'm willing to take Cam Smith on a completely fresh slate going into camp this year, eager to see him show up and find a spot out there at least on nickel/Dime, pulling for him.
I'll even take great Special Teams play from Cam Smith, the new kick off rules open up lots of opportunities

-I guess what I'm saying about Smith is I don't care what he did to Fangs right now, Vic ain't here, Cam is. Let's move forward and kickstart his career quickly

 

[SoBeDad]

Tua has had 1 healthy season, and has not yet shown the ability to play in cold weather. In that division that’s kind of a problem. I think MIA is hesitant to back up the Brinks truck.

In 2024, MIA plays @ GB on Thanksgiving, @CLE Dec 29, and @NYJ in January. Tua had one good cold -weather game, the 2022 snow game in Buffalo.

I think the problem is more that he's has struggled versus good defenses, which are often late in the year. Also, McDaniel hasn't adapted versus the good defenses and keeps running the same plays, relying on speed more than scheme, at least for the WRs. And too limited use of TEs.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Tua has had 1 healthy season, and has not yet shown the ability to play in cold weather. In that division that’s kind of a problem. I think MIA is hesitant to back up the Brinks truck.

In 2024, MIA plays @ GB on Thanksgiving, @CLE Dec 29, and @NYJ in January. Tua had one good cold -weather game, the 2022 snow game in Buffalo.

I think the problem is more that he's has struggled versus good defenses, which are often late in the year. Also, McDaniel hasn't adapted versus the good defenses and keeps running the same plays, relying on speed more than scheme, at least for the WRs. And too limited use of TEs.

That’s fair.

The end result is the same for Tua though.

 

[32 Counter Pass]

Silly question. Of course the Fish have the right to ask Tua to perform under his 5th year option. It was part of the CBA agreement.

 

[Snotbubbles]

How is Philly feeling right now after they paid Jalen Hurts $250M?
I can go down this list but IMHO the only QB that really earned all this money and deserved almost every red cent was Joe Burrow and he didn't start or finish the season

Miami cannot extend and lock up money with Tua. McDaniel has made Tua look good in his system but when things are not perfect then you tend to see how limited Tua is.
His mobility is questionable post broken hip socket which should have made Miami gun shy at the Draft
Rumor has it that the owner wanted Herbert and Grier flat told him "we're taking Tua" and waived off the owner...is that true? I've heard it on local sports talk a couple times

If Tua does not want to play under his 5th year option, then i think Miami needs to trade him, if he's worth $50M then Miami should get a decent pick for him.
Tua is accurate but he cannot make a play when the pocket breaks down, that's not a minor flaw, it's a major problem especially in these games vs better teams.
If you watched Tua when he was stepping up in the pocket and Connor Williams at Center and Robert Hunt at RG were clearing out the middle so he had a wide open window to step up and throw the football between the hash marks in a way I have never seen before and its because Tua is not that big and you can't ask him to throw over the DL

I'm happy with paying Hurts his money. It's not like Philly had a backup plan at the time. Besides, Hurts cap hits are $13.5M, $21.7M, $31.7M over the next 3 seasons, then they can move on from him if they want to.

It is working for Philly, I applaud the GM/Pres-Howie over there, I've been very complimentary in the Philly team thread and I have you all as the odds on favorite to win the Super Bowl this year. The 2 DBs in the Draft reminds me of when Tampa had a young nucleus in the Secondary all on rookie contracts when Brady came in 2020

I still don't think Tua is worth $50M a season and Miami has lost a ton of talent and has yet to replace it. Achane is the only draft pick so far in '22 and '23 under Coach Mikey that has panned out. I understand Grier calls the shots but Mike is standing there most of the way and has a lot of input.

Miami needs to hit on their draft picks just to tread water this year.

It's only $50M if the GM structures the cap hits that way.

 

[SoBeDad]

It's only $50M if the GM structures the cap hits that way.

Hurts' cap numbers are $13.5M in 2024, $21.8 in 2025, then $31.7 and $41.8. The Goff cap numbers are $27, $32, $69.

The issue is what happens if MIA wants to move on from Tua or he gets injured and retires, which is more likely for him than Goff. What would the dead money be?

 

[BobbyLayne]

How is Philly feeling right now after they paid Jalen Hurts $250M?
I can go down this list but IMHO the only QB that really earned all this money and deserved almost every red cent was Joe Burrow and he didn't start or finish the season

Miami cannot extend and lock up money with Tua. McDaniel has made Tua look good in his system but when things are not perfect then you tend to see how limited Tua is.
His mobility is questionable post broken hip socket which should have made Miami gun shy at the Draft
Rumor has it that the owner wanted Herbert and Grier flat told him "we're taking Tua" and waived off the owner...is that true? I've heard it on local sports talk a couple times

If Tua does not want to play under his 5th year option, then i think Miami needs to trade him, if he's worth $50M then Miami should get a decent pick for him.
Tua is accurate but he cannot make a play when the pocket breaks down, that's not a minor flaw, it's a major problem especially in these games vs better teams.
If you watched Tua when he was stepping up in the pocket and Connor Williams at Center and Robert Hunt at RG were clearing out the middle so he had a wide open window to step up and throw the football between the hash marks in a way I have never seen before and its because Tua is not that big and you can't ask him to throw over the DL

I'm happy with paying Hurts his money. It's not like Philly had a backup plan at the time. Besides, Hurts cap hits are $13.5M, $21.7M, $31.7M over the next 3 seasons, then they can move on from him if they want to.

It is working for Philly, I applaud the GM/Pres-Howie over there, I've been very complimentary in the Philly team thread and I have you all as the odds on favorite to win the Super Bowl this year. The 2 DBs in the Draft reminds me of when Tampa had a young nucleus in the Secondary all on rookie contracts when Brady came in 2020

I still don't think Tua is worth $50M a season and Miami has lost a ton of talent and has yet to replace it. Achane is the only draft pick so far in '22 and '23 under Coach Mikey that has panned out. I understand Grier calls the shots but Mike is standing there most of the way and has a lot of input.

Miami needs to hit on their draft picks just to tread water this year.

It's only $50M if the GM structures the cap hits that way.

Jared Goff's cap hit the next 2 years is 10.6% and 12.5%.

While it balloons over the last 2, they didn't add any void years to it. They will have 35.8M and 19.3M available through a simple restructure in either 2026 and 2027 - and they can tack on void years to spread it out up to 5 years if/when they restructure.

Year	Base Salary	Cap Hit	% of Cap	Dead Money	Cap Savings - Restructure
2024	2,611,832	27,211,832	10.6%	65.2M	5,121,466
2025	18,000,000	32,600,000	12.5%	52.6M	12,558,750
2026	55,000,000	69,600,000	24.5%	34.6M	35,800,000
2027	40,000,000	54,600,000	17.4%	14.6M	19,327,500
2028	39,000,000	61,600,000	-	14.6M	0

Prorated Signing Bonus - $78M
Total GTD Salary - 45,611,832

---

The NFL has a hard cap, it's quite incorrect to say "Cap's not real." But there are many ways to alleviate the impact of signing your own stars.

You simply have to negotiate the built in flexibility before the signing.

Ideally, doing it in a way that leaves the Agent and Player with initial claims of "biggest contract since/ever" and "makes him the Xth highest player at his position."

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Silly question. Of course the Fish have the right to ask Tua to perform under his 5th year option. It was part of the CBA agreement.

Part of the question is how bad would Miami look if they expected Tua to walk out this year under a 5th year option
We know thru reports they already put a contract extension in front of him and he declined
Silly question in your opinion, fine
But he still does not have the extension and I don't see how his agent would let him practice and participate in camp or in good faith act like Tua is taking the field week 1.

 

[Snotbubbles]

It's only $50M if the GM structures the cap hits that way.

Hurts' cap numbers are $13.5M in 2024, $21.8 in 2025, then $31.7 and $41.8. The Goff cap numbers are $27, $32, $69.

The issue is what happens if MIA wants to move on from Tua or he gets injured and retires, which is more likely for him than Goff. What would the dead money be?

It would depend on how the contract is structured.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Let's say Miami extends Tua and does it the way many of you think the Dolphins will
I've seen with guys like Watson and some others where they can make the big contract have very minimal cap impacts in Years 1 and 2...
What makes that especially bad for Miami is they lost Wilkins and Hunt, their best DT/DL and best OL in the same off season and got nothing, others left as well
Miami is going to pay thru the nose for a QB that doesn't truly move the needle for them and they lose some of their core strength in the OL/DL

Just want to make sure everyone is aware of what is actually unfolding in the '24 off season
Miami has missed their chance to load up on a QB rookie contract and make a true run
Tua has appeared in 1 Playoff game and Miami scored just 1 TD in that game, a long ball to Tyreek Hill and that was it.

 

[wdh76]

Let's say Miami extends Tua and does it the way many of you think the Dolphins will
I've seen with guys like Watson and some others where they can make the big contract have very minimal cap impacts in Years 1 and 2...
What makes that especially bad for Miami is they lost Wilkins and Hunt, their best DT/DL and best OL in the same off season and got CAP ROOM, others left as well
Miami is going to pay thru the nose for a QB that doesn't truly move the needle for them and they lose some of their core strength in the OL/DL

Just want to make sure everyone is aware of what is actually unfolding in the '24 off season
Miami has missed their chance to load up on a QB rookie contract and make a true run
Tua has appeared in 1 Playoff game and Miami scored just 1 TD in that game, a long ball to Tyreek Hill and that was it.

To say they got nothing is to ignore the opportunity cost they would have paid by signing those 2. The phins would not have been able to bring in a lot of valuable pieces. But you knew that, you just want maximum effect of your statement.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Let's say Miami extends Tua and does it the way many of you think the Dolphins will
I've seen with guys like Watson and some others where they can make the big contract have very minimal cap impacts in Years 1 and 2...
What makes that especially bad for Miami is they lost Wilkins and Hunt, their best DT/DL and best OL in the same off season and got CAP ROOM, others left as well
Miami is going to pay thru the nose for a QB that doesn't truly move the needle for them and they lose some of their core strength in the OL/DL

Just want to make sure everyone is aware of what is actually unfolding in the '24 off season
Miami has missed their chance to load up on a QB rookie contract and make a true run
Tua has appeared in 1 Playoff game and Miami scored just 1 TD in that game, a long ball to Tyreek Hill and that was it.

To say they got nothing is to ignore the opportunity cost they would have paid by signing those 2. The phins would not have been able to bring in a lot of valuable pieces. But you knew that, you just want maximum effect of your statement.

if you scroll thru the Phins thread and a couple others, I have made comments that Fuller at DB might actually be an upgrade over '22 and '23 X.Howard
Poyer even on a 1 year deal is an upgrade at FS if he can stay on the field at his age
-Sidenote: Cooper DeJean would have made such a great addition to the secondary and could have slotted in at Nickel or Free Safety to unseat 33/34 yr old Poyer
They signed Brewer at Center but so far lost Connor Williams who was playing close to an All pro level the last couple seasons for Miami
Miami's IOL is questionable right now at best but there is a possible windfall of cap space coming June 1st with Howard gone...$18M, what they do with that is a mystery
So far it seems likely it's just gonna be absorbed into Tua's new deal

Appreciate your comment and nod about "max effect"
I don't take that as an insult and always happy to walk it back.

 

[SoBeDad]

They signed Brewer at Center but so far lost Connor Williams who was playing close to an All pro level the last couple seasons for Miami
Miami's IOL is questionable right now at best but there is a possible windfall of cap space coming June 1st with Howard gone...$18M, what they do with that is a mystery
So far it seems likely it's just gonna be absorbed into Tua's new deal

Regarding the IOL, insiders Barry Jackson and Omar Kelly, who now do a weekly podcast together, are not too worried about it because they say Liam did well pass blocking at RG (not at C), while Wynn did ok at LG before getting hurt. Their big worry is backup C, it would be Liam, who wasn't good, also leaving a gap at RG. Dalton Risner could help in that scenario and provide competition & depth at G. But Miami wants to rollover a good amount of cap space for 2025 so they can retain good players. BTW, Omar thought Graham Barton would've been a better choice at 1.21. I think our IOL will be good at run blocking, but I'm still concerned about pass blocking up the middle for Tua. His quick release and early separation by Hill and Waddle can make up for some deficiency at pass blocking.

 

[jtd13]

Wynn did ok at LG before getting hurt

Isn't the reason he was available so cheap because he has not been able to stay healthy? Seems like the IOL is even less equipped to handle injuries this year, and it would be a lot nicer having EIch as the swing IOL than a starter.

 

[Joe Bryant]

It doesn't happen often at QB and Tua is a starting Pro Bowl QB this year, however...many Miami fans watched him regress as the season went on
He did almost nothing in the Playoff game at KC, weather was a factor of course but he didn't put on a Superman cape of any kind

Would you extend Tua at a rate of $50-$60M per season and put the team in a potential cap sqeeze/hell for years to come?
#200M guaranteed is the going rate these days

If you watch Tua week in and week out as many Miami fans do, you're left feeling like he has to have a perfect set up to succeed and that's almost like a handicap at Quarterback
If you were the Miami General Manager/Grier, would you put a fat contract in front of him and not look back?

Many Miami fans are questioning his abilities right now and even the biggest fans of Tua are at least witnessing that he is not producing in the bigger games vs the better teams.
Don't hold back, what are your thoughts about Tua and his future as the Miami starting QB?

Where do you rank him among among QBs from a real NFL perspective?

 

[SoBeDad]

Where do you rank him among among QBs from a real NFL perspective?

I'm sure MOP will eventually respond. I'd put Tua in the same tier as Goff, who has a 66-50-1 record, while Tua is 34-19 as a starter. Goff has had a better oline than Tua during his winning seasons, while Tua has had the best WR duo in the league. Goff has had better offensive coordinators in McVay and Ben Johnson IMO, I don't think McDaniel has learned how to adjust when teams take away Waddle and Hill, although injuries on a the oline and lack of a good receiving TE (Gesicki got no separation) may be partly to blame. My biggest concern about Tua is still injury.

I think Goff and Tua are in the 10-15 tier as QBs from an NFL perspective. Tua has gotten better every year so far. There are lots of good up and coming QBs (Stroud, Richardson, Caleb, Love), maybe even Daniels.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

It doesn't happen often at QB and Tua is a starting Pro Bowl QB this year, however...many Miami fans watched him regress as the season went on
He did almost nothing in the Playoff game at KC, weather was a factor of course but he didn't put on a Superman cape of any kind

Would you extend Tua at a rate of $50-$60M per season and put the team in a potential cap sqeeze/hell for years to come?
#200M guaranteed is the going rate these days

If you watch Tua week in and week out as many Miami fans do, you're left feeling like he has to have a perfect set up to succeed and that's almost like a handicap at Quarterback
If you were the Miami General Manager/Grier, would you put a fat contract in front of him and not look back?

Many Miami fans are questioning his abilities right now and even the biggest fans of Tua are at least witnessing that he is not producing in the bigger games vs the better teams.
Don't hold back, what are your thoughts about Tua and his future as the Miami starting QB?

Where do you rank him among among QBs from a real NFL perspective?

You ask me the impossible Joe...I am the most biased when it comes to my beloved Phins
-I think many feel he is elite...I found comfort drafting him in FF around the 7th-8th-9th round in redraft leagues

If you ask me to rank him in terms of true NFL ability, he just doesn't possess the physical tools/gifts to naturally elevate him and the hip socket injury prior to entering the NFL,
he just has never been quite the same as college.

Many fans of Miami would likely have Tua ranked outside the Top 10 but not too far outside that range. I would have him in the 10-12 range overall and he could slip with so many new faces at QB and being given the starting spot...6 teams this past Draft? Ok, 5 because of Atlanta but a lot of new faces this year.

It's a great question JB, not sure I answered it well but I do like you asking for some clarity on my POV w/Tua

 

[Gatorman]

It doesn't happen often at QB and Tua is a starting Pro Bowl QB this year, however...many Miami fans watched him regress as the season went on
He did almost nothing in the Playoff game at KC, weather was a factor of course but he didn't put on a Superman cape of any kind

Would you extend Tua at a rate of $50-$60M per season and put the team in a potential cap sqeeze/hell for years to come?
#200M guaranteed is the going rate these days

If you watch Tua week in and week out as many Miami fans do, you're left feeling like he has to have a perfect set up to succeed and that's almost like a handicap at Quarterback
If you were the Miami General Manager/Grier, would you put a fat contract in front of him and not look back?

Many Miami fans are questioning his abilities right now and even the biggest fans of Tua are at least witnessing that he is not producing in the bigger games vs the better teams.
Don't hold back, what are your thoughts about Tua and his future as the Miami starting QB?

Where do you rank him among among QBs from a real NFL perspective?

You ask me the impossible Joe...I am the most biased when it comes to my beloved Phins
-I think many feel he is elite...I found comfort drafting him in FF around the 7th-8th-9th round in redraft leagues

If you ask me to rank him in terms of true NFL ability, he just doesn't possess the physical tools/gifts to naturally elevate him and the hip socket injury prior to entering the NFL,
he just has never been quite the same as college.

Many fans of Miami would likely have Tua ranked outside the Top 10 but not too far outside that range. I would have him in the 10-12 range overall and he could slip with so many new faces at QB and being given the starting spot...6 teams this past Draft? Ok, 5 because of Atlanta but a lot of new faces this year.

It's a great question JB, not sure I answered it well but I do like you asking for some clarity on my POV w/Tua

Tua's ceiling is likely Drew Brees. His floor is out of the league due to concussions. He is progressing according to what I consider the Drew Brees route where Brees was "giifted" but until he got paired with Sean Payton and really started taking care of his core strength he was average. Once he got those two things under control the rest is history.

Tua needs to get his body right. The Training he went through last year was the first step. Now, can he build on it?

I'd call him top 12 with a possibility of being top 8. I don't see him as a Top 5 guy mainly becasue he doesn't run much if at all so all you are banking on with him is his acuracy.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

It doesn't happen often at QB and Tua is a starting Pro Bowl QB this year, however...many Miami fans watched him regress as the season went on
He did almost nothing in the Playoff game at KC, weather was a factor of course but he didn't put on a Superman cape of any kind

Would you extend Tua at a rate of $50-$60M per season and put the team in a potential cap sqeeze/hell for years to come?
#200M guaranteed is the going rate these days

If you watch Tua week in and week out as many Miami fans do, you're left feeling like he has to have a perfect set up to succeed and that's almost like a handicap at Quarterback
If you were the Miami General Manager/Grier, would you put a fat contract in front of him and not look back?

Many Miami fans are questioning his abilities right now and even the biggest fans of Tua are at least witnessing that he is not producing in the bigger games vs the better teams.
Don't hold back, what are your thoughts about Tua and his future as the Miami starting QB?

Where do you rank him among among QBs from a real NFL perspective?

You ask me the impossible Joe...I am the most biased when it comes to my beloved Phins
-I think many feel he is elite...I found comfort drafting him in FF around the 7th-8th-9th round in redraft leagues

If you ask me to rank him in terms of true NFL ability, he just doesn't possess the physical tools/gifts to naturally elevate him and the hip socket injury prior to entering the NFL,
he just has never been quite the same as college.

Many fans of Miami would likely have Tua ranked outside the Top 10 but not too far outside that range. I would have him in the 10-12 range overall and he could slip with so many new faces at QB and being given the starting spot...6 teams this past Draft? Ok, 5 because of Atlanta but a lot of new faces this year.

It's a great question JB, not sure I answered it well but I do like you asking for some clarity on my POV w/Tua

Tua's ceiling is likely Drew Brees. His floor is out of the league due to concussions. He is progressing according to what I consider the Drew Brees route where Brees was "giifted" but until he got paired with Sean Payton and really started taking care of his core strength he was average. Once he got those two things under control the rest is history.

Tua needs to get his body right. The Training he went through last year was the first step. Now, can he build on it?

I'd call him top 12 with a possibility of being top 8. I don't see him as a Top 5 guy mainly becasue he doesn't run much if at all so all you are banking on with him is his acuracy.

It's going to be Tua Much Money I assure you

 

[Joe Bryant]

It doesn't happen often at QB and Tua is a starting Pro Bowl QB this year, however...many Miami fans watched him regress as the season went on
He did almost nothing in the Playoff game at KC, weather was a factor of course but he didn't put on a Superman cape of any kind

Would you extend Tua at a rate of $50-$60M per season and put the team in a potential cap sqeeze/hell for years to come?
#200M guaranteed is the going rate these days

If you watch Tua week in and week out as many Miami fans do, you're left feeling like he has to have a perfect set up to succeed and that's almost like a handicap at Quarterback
If you were the Miami General Manager/Grier, would you put a fat contract in front of him and not look back?

Many Miami fans are questioning his abilities right now and even the biggest fans of Tua are at least witnessing that he is not producing in the bigger games vs the better teams.
Don't hold back, what are your thoughts about Tua and his future as the Miami starting QB?

Where do you rank him among among QBs from a real NFL perspective?

You ask me the impossible Joe...I am the most biased when it comes to my beloved Phins
-I think many feel he is elite...I found comfort drafting him in FF around the 7th-8th-9th round in redraft leagues

If you ask me to rank him in terms of true NFL ability, he just doesn't possess the physical tools/gifts to naturally elevate him and the hip socket injury prior to entering the NFL,
he just has never been quite the same as college.

Many fans of Miami would likely have Tua ranked outside the Top 10 but not too far outside that range. I would have him in the 10-12 range overall and he could slip with so many new faces at QB and being given the starting spot...6 teams this past Draft? Ok, 5 because of Atlanta but a lot of new faces this year.

It's a great question JB, not sure I answered it well but I do like you asking for some clarity on my POV w/Tua

Thannks. On a ranking of 1-32 on where he ranks as a real NFL QB, where would you put him?

 

[Joe Bryant]

It doesn't happen often at QB and Tua is a starting Pro Bowl QB this year, however...many Miami fans watched him regress as the season went on
He did almost nothing in the Playoff game at KC, weather was a factor of course but he didn't put on a Superman cape of any kind

Would you extend Tua at a rate of $50-$60M per season and put the team in a potential cap sqeeze/hell for years to come?
#200M guaranteed is the going rate these days

If you watch Tua week in and week out as many Miami fans do, you're left feeling like he has to have a perfect set up to succeed and that's almost like a handicap at Quarterback
If you were the Miami General Manager/Grier, would you put a fat contract in front of him and not look back?

Many Miami fans are questioning his abilities right now and even the biggest fans of Tua are at least witnessing that he is not producing in the bigger games vs the better teams.
Don't hold back, what are your thoughts about Tua and his future as the Miami starting QB?

Where do you rank him among among QBs from a real NFL perspective?

You ask me the impossible Joe...I am the most biased when it comes to my beloved Phins
-I think many feel he is elite...I found comfort drafting him in FF around the 7th-8th-9th round in redraft leagues

If you ask me to rank him in terms of true NFL ability, he just doesn't possess the physical tools/gifts to naturally elevate him and the hip socket injury prior to entering the NFL,
he just has never been quite the same as college.

Many fans of Miami would likely have Tua ranked outside the Top 10 but not too far outside that range. I would have him in the 10-12 range overall and he could slip with so many new faces at QB and being given the starting spot...6 teams this past Draft? Ok, 5 because of Atlanta but a lot of new faces this year.

It's a great question JB, not sure I answered it well but I do like you asking for some clarity on my POV w/Tua

Tua's ceiling is likely Drew Brees. His floor is out of the league due to concussions. He is progressing according to what I consider the Drew Brees route where Brees was "giifted" but until he got paired with Sean Payton and really started taking care of his core strength he was average. Once he got those two things under control the rest is history.

Tua needs to get his body right. The Training he went through last year was the first step. Now, can he build on it?

I'd call him top 12 with a possibility of being top 8. I don't see him as a Top 5 guy mainly becasue he doesn't run much if at all so all you are banking on with him is his acuracy.

Agree for sure who a QB is matched with is crucial.

Where would your rank McDaniel in a list of coaches who benefit a QB? Top 5? I think I would.

When you say "taking care of his core strength" can you elaborate?

 

[renesauz]

I'm a little confused by the perspective of some of the Dolphins fans. If Tua is top 12 or so, you should in no way want to let him go right now. Teams can go 5 or 10 years struggling to acquire a top 12 QB. You can win with a top 12 guy (though it's obviously easier with a top 5 guy)

 

[SoBeDad]

Where would your rank McDaniel in a list of coaches who benefit a QB? Top 5? I think I would.

McDaniel has been good for Tua. But don't overlook Waddle and the addition of Hill in McDaniel's first year. And a good LT, C and RG. If and when MIA and Tua start scoring more versus good defenses, I'll put McDaniel in the top 5. Payton, McVay, Shanahan, maybe Ben Johnson are higher. Reid too, although I could coach Mahomes and McNabb.

 

[Gatorman]

It doesn't happen often at QB and Tua is a starting Pro Bowl QB this year, however...many Miami fans watched him regress as the season went on
He did almost nothing in the Playoff game at KC, weather was a factor of course but he didn't put on a Superman cape of any kind

Would you extend Tua at a rate of $50-$60M per season and put the team in a potential cap sqeeze/hell for years to come?
#200M guaranteed is the going rate these days

If you watch Tua week in and week out as many Miami fans do, you're left feeling like he has to have a perfect set up to succeed and that's almost like a handicap at Quarterback
If you were the Miami General Manager/Grier, would you put a fat contract in front of him and not look back?

Many Miami fans are questioning his abilities right now and even the biggest fans of Tua are at least witnessing that he is not producing in the bigger games vs the better teams.
Don't hold back, what are your thoughts about Tua and his future as the Miami starting QB?

Where do you rank him among among QBs from a real NFL perspective?

You ask me the impossible Joe...I am the most biased when it comes to my beloved Phins
-I think many feel he is elite...I found comfort drafting him in FF around the 7th-8th-9th round in redraft leagues

If you ask me to rank him in terms of true NFL ability, he just doesn't possess the physical tools/gifts to naturally elevate him and the hip socket injury prior to entering the NFL,
he just has never been quite the same as college.

Many fans of Miami would likely have Tua ranked outside the Top 10 but not too far outside that range. I would have him in the 10-12 range overall and he could slip with so many new faces at QB and being given the starting spot...6 teams this past Draft? Ok, 5 because of Atlanta but a lot of new faces this year.

It's a great question JB, not sure I answered it well but I do like you asking for some clarity on my POV w/Tua

Tua's ceiling is likely Drew Brees. His floor is out of the league due to concussions. He is progressing according to what I consider the Drew Brees route where Brees was "giifted" but until he got paired with Sean Payton and really started taking care of his core strength he was average. Once he got those two things under control the rest is history.

Tua needs to get his body right. The Training he went through last year was the first step. Now, can he build on it?

I'd call him top 12 with a possibility of being top 8. I don't see him as a Top 5 guy mainly becasue he doesn't run much if at all so all you are banking on with him is his acuracy.

Agree for sure who a QB is matched with is crucial.

Where would your rank McDaniel in a list of coaches who benefit a QB? Top 5? I think I would.

When you say "taking care of his core strength" can you elaborate?

I'd say that Shanahan and McDaniel look for a "Brady (Cousins)" Style QB in terms of one who can move in the pocket and makes the right read and doesn't need to use his legs all that much. It would have been interesting to see what Mac Jones would have been in San Fran. I don't see either of them knowing exactly what to do with a full fledged running QB. I would have liked MIami to take a flier on a guy like fields but I don't think he fits the system in Miami or San Fran which is why Trey Lance was a bust in San fran.

The one thing I have not seen out of either is the abilty to adapt their system to a QB with a different skill set.

With Brees, he was a prolific passer coming out of college, but his first few years were rough, even before the shoulder surgery. Hence the drafting of Rivers. Once Brees needed to rehab the shoulder, he found that building his "foundational core strength" inproved his passing. That was Brees, and he evoloved physically as his career progressed. Tua's first few years was coming back from injury. Now he has the "space" to improve his strength and longevity as a QB. The Ju Jitsu and new helmet (and faster throws) kept him from another concussion last year. Now, can he build on that "healthy' year or was that the outlier? If the injury bug is over for him he is worth a Goff style deal. If he isn't then he becomes Russell Wilson 2.0

 

[Todem]

It doesn't happen often at QB and Tua is a starting Pro Bowl QB this year, however...many Miami fans watched him regress as the season went on
He did almost nothing in the Playoff game at KC, weather was a factor of course but he didn't put on a Superman cape of any kind

Would you extend Tua at a rate of $50-$60M per season and put the team in a potential cap sqeeze/hell for years to come?
#200M guaranteed is the going rate these days

If you watch Tua week in and week out as many Miami fans do, you're left feeling like he has to have a perfect set up to succeed and that's almost like a handicap at Quarterback
If you were the Miami General Manager/Grier, would you put a fat contract in front of him and not look back?

Many Miami fans are questioning his abilities right now and even the biggest fans of Tua are at least witnessing that he is not producing in the bigger games vs the better teams.
Don't hold back, what are your thoughts about Tua and his future as the Miami starting QB?

Where do you rank him among among QBs from a real NFL perspective?

Mahomes

Allen
Burrow
Herbert
Stroud
Hurts
Jackson
Rodgers
Goff
Purdy
Stafford
Cousins

Tua
Love
Mayfield
Geno
Watson (my has he fallen)
Daniel Jones
Lawrence


In my JAG tier of NFL QB’s

The issue is we have a league full of average QB’s that are being overpaid.

It is what it is.

I would never hitch my wagon and pay Tua 57MM avg annual (which is what he is seeking and that’s ****ing insane).

He ain’t the guy.

 

[Todem]

I'm a little confused by the perspective of some of the Dolphins fans. If Tua is top 12 or so, you should in no way want to let him go right now. Teams can go 5 or 10 years struggling to acquire a top 12 QB. You can win with a top 12 guy (though it's obviously easier with a top 5 guy)

Top 12 to some

JAG to me….not the guy that will ever win a title, put a team on his shoulders etc. Way too limited and brittle to boot.

 

[Gatorman]

I'm a little confused by the perspective of some of the Dolphins fans. If Tua is top 12 or so, you should in no way want to let him go right now. Teams can go 5 or 10 years struggling to acquire a top 12 QB. You can win with a top 12 guy (though it's obviously easier with a top 5 guy)

Top 12 to some

JAG to me….not the guy that will ever win a title, put a team on his shoulders etc. Way too limited and brittle to boot.

I kind of agree here. Miami kind of boxed themselves in here as they did with Tannyhill in that they are never drafting a viable guy should the top guy get hurt. I know some of that is loss of picks due to trades and the owner being an idiot, but more teams should do what the falcons just did (maybe not that extreme, but something of that type). Even trading fro a guys lIke fields or mac jones would have given MIami some leverage in this situation. As such, now they are trying to thread the needle with Tua on a contract that pays him well, but gives Miami outs if he gets hurt again.

I never understand why if a team thinks this is their "window" they don't back up the most important position in the game with a guy they could trust to win them the playoffs.

 

[Todem]

I'm a little confused by the perspective of some of the Dolphins fans. If Tua is top 12 or so, you should in no way want to let him go right now. Teams can go 5 or 10 years struggling to acquire a top 12 QB. You can win with a top 12 guy (though it's obviously easier with a top 5 guy)

Top 12 to some

JAG to me….not the guy that will ever win a title, put a team on his shoulders etc. Way too limited and brittle to boot.

I kind of agree here. Miami kind of boxed themselves in here as they did with Tannyhill in that they are never drafting a viable guy should the top guy get hurt. I know some of that is loss of picks due to trades and the owner being an idiot, but more teams should do what the falcons just did (maybe not that extreme, but something of that type). Even trading fro a guys lIke fields or mac jones would have given MIami some leverage in this situation. As such, now they are trying to thread the needle with Tua on a contract that pays him well, but gives Miami outs if he gets hurt again.

I never understand why if a team thinks this is their "window" they don't back up the most important position in the game with a guy they could trust to win them the playoffs.

I remember Peter King being adamant that not only did they blow it not taking Herbert but they got a guy who will be just good enough to win 8-9 games but never be that “franchise” QB.

Yep…..he was on point.

 

[SoBeDad]

I remember Peter King being adamant that not only did they blow it not taking Herbert but they got a guy who will be just good enough to win 8-9 games but never be that “franchise” QB.

Yep…..he was on point.

Tua was 11-6 in 2024.

 

[Desert_Power]

I'm a little confused by the perspective of some of the Dolphins fans. If Tua is top 12 or so, you should in no way want to let him go right now. Teams can go 5 or 10 years struggling to acquire a top 12 QB. You can win with a top 12 guy (though it's obviously easier with a top 5 guy)

I'm in the boat with you, particularly given the abysmal history of QBs since Marino retired. Tua is probably the best of that entire stretch.

Pay him something that is admittedly a bit above his level and let him focus on earning it without this distraction. It's just Steve Ross's money after all.

 

[Gatorman]

I'm a little confused by the perspective of some of the Dolphins fans. If Tua is top 12 or so, you should in no way want to let him go right now. Teams can go 5 or 10 years struggling to acquire a top 12 QB. You can win with a top 12 guy (though it's obviously easier with a top 5 guy)

Top 12 to some

JAG to me….not the guy that will ever win a title, put a team on his shoulders etc. Way too limited and brittle to boot.

I kind of agree here. Miami kind of boxed themselves in here as they did with Tannyhill in that they are never drafting a viable guy should the top guy get hurt. I know some of that is loss of picks due to trades and the owner being an idiot, but more teams should do what the falcons just did (maybe not that extreme, but something of that type). Even trading fro a guys lIke fields or mac jones would have given MIami some leverage in this situation. As such, now they are trying to thread the needle with Tua on a contract that pays him well, but gives Miami outs if he gets hurt again.

I never understand why if a team thinks this is their "window" they don't back up the most important position in the game with a guy they could trust to win them the playoffs.

I remember Peter King being adamant that not only did they blow it not taking Herbert but they got a guy who will be just good enough to win 8-9 games but never be that “franchise” QB.

Yep…..he was on point.

I'm not going to rehash the Tua herbert debate, but Herbert has done about as much as Rivers did before him. He's probably the better QB for an "unstructured" offense, but he doesn't have Tua's accuracy or anticipation. He does have wheels, which in todays NFL means a little more. The fact guys like Trev Lawrence are behind Tua is telling.

Guys I'd want ahead of Tua: Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, Stroud, Caleb Williams, and likely Purdy; END OF LIST. All the other guys have the same questions as Tua, or some other drama that is likely worse.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Good discussion. He's an interesting and polarizing player for sure. Which is fun for discussion.

 

[Todem]

I remember Peter King being adamant that not only did they blow it not taking Herbert but they got a guy who will be just good enough to win 8-9 games but never be that “franchise” QB.

Yep…..he was on point.

Tua was 11-6 in 2024.

Dude I know.

Doesn’t change my opinion

 

[Todem]

I'm a little confused by the perspective of some of the Dolphins fans. If Tua is top 12 or so, you should in no way want to let him go right now. Teams can go 5 or 10 years struggling to acquire a top 12 QB. You can win with a top 12 guy (though it's obviously easier with a top 5 guy)

Top 12 to some

JAG to me….not the guy that will ever win a title, put a team on his shoulders etc. Way too limited and brittle to boot.

I kind of agree here. Miami kind of boxed themselves in here as they did with Tannyhill in that they are never drafting a viable guy should the top guy get hurt. I know some of that is loss of picks due to trades and the owner being an idiot, but more teams should do what the falcons just did (maybe not that extreme, but something of that type). Even trading fro a guys lIke fields or mac jones would have given MIami some leverage in this situation. As such, now they are trying to thread the needle with Tua on a contract that pays him well, but gives Miami outs if he gets hurt again.

I never understand why if a team thinks this is their "window" they don't back up the most important position in the game with a guy they could trust to win them the playoffs.

I remember Peter King being adamant that not only did they blow it not taking Herbert but they got a guy who will be just good enough to win 8-9 games but never be that “franchise” QB.

Yep…..he was on point.

I'm not going to rehash the Tua herbert debate, but Herbert has done about as much as Rivers did before him. He's probably the better QB for an "unstructured" offense, but he doesn't have Tua's accuracy or anticipation. He does have wheels, which in todays NFL means a little more. The fact guys like Trev Lawrence are behind Tua is telling.

Guys I'd want ahead of Tua: Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, Stroud, Caleb Williams, and likely Purdy; END OF LIST. All the other guys have the same questions as Tua, or some other drama that is likely worse.

I’ll respectfully disagree last year was a very rough year for Herbert. The prior 3 seasons he has looked outstanding and he has an elite skill set with a far more higher ceiling, dude.

 

[Todem]

Tua has had 1 healthy season, and has not yet shown the ability to play in cold weather. In that division that’s kind of a problem. I think MIA is hesitant to back up the Brinks truck.

In 2024, MIA plays @ GB on Thanksgiving, @CLE Dec 29, and @NYJ in January. Tua had one good cold -weather game, the 2022 snow game in Buffalo.

I think the problem is more that he's has struggled versus good defenses, which are often late in the year. Also, McDaniel hasn't adapted versus the good defenses and keeps running the same plays, relying on speed more than scheme, at least for the WRs. And too limited use of TEs.

His road record vs teams above .500 is abysmal.

Huge red flag for me as well.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I’ll respectfully disagree last year was a very rough year for Herbert. The prior 3 seasons he has looked outstanding and he has an elite skill set with a far more higher ceiling, dude.

It’s amazing how quickly the FF community sours on elite talent.

 

[SoBeDad]

Dude I know.

Doesn’t change my opinion

Tua was 8-5 in 13 games in 2022. That's pace for 10-11 wins, 2 consecutive seasons. I think Peter King underestimated Tua a little at an 8-9 win QB.

My biggest concern is injury risk for a long-term contract. I'm in the camp of waiting another year for a long-term extension to see if Tua can stay healthy for a 2nd season and the Tua-McDaniel-Grier combo can score versus good defenses. If he succeeds, the contract terms will grow, but can still be structured for low caps hits in 2025 and 2026. If he gets injured or regresses, start over.

 

[JAA]

If Im Tua I hold out until I get the deal I think is fair.

The Dolphins, and every other NFL team, have to accept overpaying for QBs is simply the cost of doing business. The position is so valuable and so hard to find there arent other options.

 

[Todem]

Dude I know.

Doesn’t change my opinion

Tua was 8-5 in 13 games in 2022. That's pace for 10-11 wins, 2 consecutive seasons. I think Peter King underestimated Tua a little at an 8-9 win QB.

My biggest concern is injury risk for a long-term contract. I'm in the camp of waiting another year for a long-term extension to see if Tua can stay healthy for a 2nd season and the Tua-McDaniel-Grier combo can score versus good defenses. If he succeeds, the contract terms will grow, but can still be structured for low caps hits in 2025 and 2026. If he gets injured or regresses, start over.

I can support that approach. I am highly concerned about his injury history both in the pros and college.

Also yes…..he needs to prove it vs the highest caliber teams before you ink him to 55MM plus per year.

It’s a huge investment. Hold out be damned to be honest.

I would call his bluff. I would not cave in. And we are going to be a weaker team in 2024.

I firmly bought in last season prior to our defense being ravaged and then IMO Tua being exposed again in December and January.

So time will tell.

Such is the life of being a Dolfan.

 

[Gatorman]

I'm a little confused by the perspective of some of the Dolphins fans. If Tua is top 12 or so, you should in no way want to let him go right now. Teams can go 5 or 10 years struggling to acquire a top 12 QB. You can win with a top 12 guy (though it's obviously easier with a top 5 guy)

Top 12 to some

JAG to me….not the guy that will ever win a title, put a team on his shoulders etc. Way too limited and brittle to boot.

I kind of agree here. Miami kind of boxed themselves in here as they did with Tannyhill in that they are never drafting a viable guy should the top guy get hurt. I know some of that is loss of picks due to trades and the owner being an idiot, but more teams should do what the falcons just did (maybe not that extreme, but something of that type). Even trading fro a guys lIke fields or mac jones would have given MIami some leverage in this situation. As such, now they are trying to thread the needle with Tua on a contract that pays him well, but gives Miami outs if he gets hurt again.

I never understand why if a team thinks this is their "window" they don't back up the most important position in the game with a guy they could trust to win them the playoffs.

I remember Peter King being adamant that not only did they blow it not taking Herbert but they got a guy who will be just good enough to win 8-9 games but never be that “franchise” QB.

Yep…..he was on point.

I'm not going to rehash the Tua herbert debate, but Herbert has done about as much as Rivers did before him. He's probably the better QB for an "unstructured" offense, but he doesn't have Tua's accuracy or anticipation. He does have wheels, which in todays NFL means a little more. The fact guys like Trev Lawrence are behind Tua is telling.

Guys I'd want ahead of Tua: Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, Stroud, Caleb Williams, and likely Purdy; END OF LIST. All the other guys have the same questions as Tua, or some other drama that is likely worse.

I’ll respectfully disagree last year was a very rough year for Herbert. The prior 3 seasons he has looked outstanding and he has an elite skill set with a far more higher ceiling, dude.

Again, not going to argue too much here, but he looked lost against a lot of defesnes.

 

[Todem]

I'm a little confused by the perspective of some of the Dolphins fans. If Tua is top 12 or so, you should in no way want to let him go right now. Teams can go 5 or 10 years struggling to acquire a top 12 QB. You can win with a top 12 guy (though it's obviously easier with a top 5 guy)

Top 12 to some

JAG to me….not the guy that will ever win a title, put a team on his shoulders etc. Way too limited and brittle to boot.

I kind of agree here. Miami kind of boxed themselves in here as they did with Tannyhill in that they are never drafting a viable guy should the top guy get hurt. I know some of that is loss of picks due to trades and the owner being an idiot, but more teams should do what the falcons just did (maybe not that extreme, but something of that type). Even trading fro a guys lIke fields or mac jones would have given MIami some leverage in this situation. As such, now they are trying to thread the needle with Tua on a contract that pays him well, but gives Miami outs if he gets hurt again.

I never understand why if a team thinks this is their "window" they don't back up the most important position in the game with a guy they could trust to win them the playoffs.

I remember Peter King being adamant that not only did they blow it not taking Herbert but they got a guy who will be just good enough to win 8-9 games but never be that “franchise” QB.

Yep…..he was on point.

I'm not going to rehash the Tua herbert debate, but Herbert has done about as much as Rivers did before him. He's probably the better QB for an "unstructured" offense, but he doesn't have Tua's accuracy or anticipation. He does have wheels, which in todays NFL means a little more. The fact guys like Trev Lawrence are behind Tua is telling.

Guys I'd want ahead of Tua: Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, Stroud, Caleb Williams, and likely Purdy; END OF LIST. All the other guys have the same questions as Tua, or some other drama that is likely worse.

I’ll respectfully disagree last year was a very rough year for Herbert. The prior 3 seasons he has looked outstanding and he has an elite skill set with a far more higher ceiling, dude.

Again, not going to argue too much here, but he looked lost against a lot of defesnes.

He had zero protection and one weapon in the passing game. That team was a mess last season.

He hardly looked lost the prior 3 seasons where he was Elite.

I take him over Tua 6 ways to Sunday….no doubt about it.

But he will never be here unfortunately. We blew that big time.

 

[Gatorman]

If Im Tua I hold out until I get the deal I think is fair.

The Dolphins, and every other NFL team, have to accept overpaying for QBs is simply the cost of doing business. The position is so valuable and so hard to find there arent other options.

Likely true. I've said before there are 4 classes of QBs now.

1) Elite paid as such
2) Rookies on their contracts good or bad
3) Overpaid extentions
4) Vets playing for cheap.

1, 2, and 4 have the best chances of winning playoff games.

 

[Todem]

If Im Tua I hold out until I get the deal I think is fair.

The Dolphins, and every other NFL team, have to accept overpaying for QBs is simply the cost of doing business. The position is so valuable and so hard to find there arent other options.

Likely true. I've said before there are 4 classes of QBs now.

1) Elite paid as such
2) Rookies on their contracts good or bad
3) Overpaid extentions
4) Vets playing for cheap.

1, 2, and 4 have the best chances of winning playoff games.

This is unfortunately the true reality of the state of the NFL and QB’s.

It is what it is.