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Designing/Building a House (1 Viewer)

Gally

Footballguy
If you were to design your own house what kind of things are must have additions that aren't the typical things most people think of? Niceties that add a bunch to every day living that most people don't even know they need.

Some examples:
  • Have the light go on when you open the pantry door and turn off when you close the door
  • Higher than normal counter heights for the kitchen island and bathroom vanities (provided you aren't short)
  • Wider doors jams to make moving things in and out of rooms easier
  • Outlet in the vanity drawer so the wife's hair dryer isn't on the counter and is easy to use for her

Any ideas for areas where it might snow periodically (heated driveway/walkways; other ice helping things?)?

Let's see what you got?


ETA: Any builders or architects feel free to add any niceties to make things easier to build or should or should not do in a floor plan design
 
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sound attenuation between floors and interior walls to keep it quiet from room to room and wrap your toilet and drain pipes in insulation so that when someone flushes you dont hear it traveling for one or two or three stories and high ceilings on every floor including the basement if applicable and finally if you can afford it get radiant heat in the basement floor and each floor of the house should have its own hvac zone take that to the bank brochachos
 
Cat6 Ethernet cable run anywhere I may eventually need a wired internet device - 4x to anywhere I might place a TV (it’s cheap).

Laundry/mud room with dog washing station.

If building for long term - energy efficiency, it will pay itself off.
 
Manifold Plumbing
I have never heard that term. Doing a quick look on the interwebz it just seems like a centralized location for all feeders to come from out of one big manifold. Seems like this would be somewhat standard in new construction of custom homes. Is there do's and don't with respect to this type system?

Definitely something I will investigate more.
 
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I designed my dream home once a long time ago. Unfortunately nearing retirement age now I no longer have the patients to build. That and everyone I know who builds ends up spending 150% than planned. Some things I took into considerations that may or may not be normal:

- I had it built into the side of a hill so that you walked into the second level from the front, looked like a one story. Then the first floor opened up to the back yard. That helped with house insulation and privacy for the back yard.
- Master bedroom in the back of the house, away from driveway/street noise. Only lived in one house that ever that didn't have that in the design and it was a noticeable difference.
- If more than one story - laundry shoot from walk in closet down to laundry room.
- Spiral staircase separate from the regular staircase that connected the master down to the kitchen-entertaining level.
- Two way fireplace on both levels, one chimney. Kitchen - Entertaining and Mater - Living
- Open floor plan on first level with kitchen-entertaining, large glass sliding window opening to back yard.
- Driveway wrapped around to garage-shop, separate from the house and provided more privacy for the back yard.
- Need all the outdoor kitchen/grilling/pool/hot tub.
- Yeah, what matty said, full wired everywhere.
 
I designed my dream home once a long time ago. Unfortunately nearing retirement age now I no longer have the patients to build. That and everyone I know who builds ends up spending 150% than planned. Some things I took into considerations that may or may not be normal:

- I had it built into the side of a hill so that you walked into the second level from the front, looked like a one story. Then the first floor opened up to the back yard. That helped with house insulation and privacy for the back yard.
- Master bedroom in the back of the house, away from driveway/street noise. Only lived in one house that ever that didn't have that in the design and it was a noticeable difference.
- If more than one story - laundry shoot from walk in closet down to laundry room.
- Spiral staircase separate from the regular staircase that connected the master down to the kitchen-entertaining level.
- Two way fireplace on both levels, one chimney. Kitchen - Entertaining and Mater - Living
- Open floor plan on first level with kitchen-entertaining, large glass sliding window opening to back yard.
- Driveway wrapped around to garage-shop, separate from the house and provided more privacy for the back yard.
- Need all the outdoor kitchen/grilling/pool/hot tub.
- Yeah, what matty said, full wired everywhere.
Our plan is a single story (stairs suck when you are old). We have a 1.25 acre lot so room to spread the floorplan.
 
We just remodeled the down stairs. We did black windows in and out. Looks sharp. Tiered drawers in the kitchen. Meaning you open the towel drawer and there’s another thinner(depth wise) drawer at the top of drawer that holds all the tin foil, ziplock bags etc. it pulls out separately. lots of customizations in the kitchen. Red stove Textured quartz waterfall is dope. It looks like dragon skin :nerd:

Eta: custom custom custom. All cabinetry downstairs. Mantle. Powder coated Stair railing( ridiculously expensive) window coverings. Almost nothing “off the shelf”
 
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Manifold Plumbing
I have never heard that term. Doing a quick look on the interwebz it just seems like a centralized location for all feeders to come from out of one big manifold. Seems like this would be somewhat standard in new construction of custom homes. Is there do's and don't with respect to this type system?

Definitely something I will investigate more.
What is the major benefit of this? Is it just to be able to isolate the water to one spot/room of the house instead of having to cut the entire house off in the event of a leak? Toilets and sinks all have their own valves though, so I must be missing something...
 
Manifold Plumbing
I have never heard that term. Doing a quick look on the interwebz it just seems like a centralized location for all feeders to come from out of one big manifold. Seems like this would be somewhat standard in new construction of custom homes. Is there do's and don't with respect to this type system?

Definitely something I will investigate more.
What is the major benefit of this? Is it just to be able to isolate the water to one spot/room of the house instead of having to cut the entire house off in the event of a leak? Toilets and sinks all have their own valves though, so I must be missing something...
Quicker hot water, which also aids efficiency.
 
Manifold Plumbing
I have never heard that term. Doing a quick look on the interwebz it just seems like a centralized location for all feeders to come from out of one big manifold. Seems like this would be somewhat standard in new construction of custom homes. Is there do's and don't with respect to this type system?

Definitely something I will investigate more.
What is the major benefit of this? Is it just to be able to isolate the water to one spot/room of the house instead of having to cut the entire house off in the event of a leak? Toilets and sinks all have their own valves though, so I must be missing something...
This site seems to explain it well enough.

More efficient. Saves water.
 
I also like the idea of a laundry shoot. I reckon we take pot shots at the stuff as it whizzes past an opening. Sounds like fun.
 
When we bought this house, a large covered porch was a requirement.

Also want solar panels, but require power walls. Not having to concern ourselves with minor power outages is heavenly. And they are useful in emergencies.

Epoxy garage floors.

Windows with sun protection baked right in. Sort of like this. Your stuff doesn't fade, and it's more energy efficient.

A really great shower. Ours has features. It's awesome.

A water heater (heat puump) with a large capacity. No more running out of toasty, hot water at the end of a shower.
 
I also like the idea of a laundry shoot. I reckon we take pot shots at the stuff as it whizzes past an opening. Sounds like fun.
Had one growing up in my parent's house. Was on the main level of the house, in the linen closet. Shoot came out on top of a table in the basement right across from the washer and dryer.

I'm sure I threw many toys down there as a kid.
 
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I also like the idea of a laundry shoot. I reckon we take pot shots at the stuff as it whizzes past an opening. Sounds like fun.
Had one growing up in my parent's house. Was on the main level of the house, in the linen closet. Shoot cam out on top of a table in the basement right across from the washer and dryer.

I'm sure I threw many toys down there as a kid.
I'm not sure you quite got what I was going for, there.
 
Cat6 Ethernet cable run anywhere I may eventually need a wired internet device - 4x to anywhere I might place a TV (it’s cheap).
What is this wired internet you speak of?
It is great for the TV, Video games, Kid's gaming computer. I have Cat 6 ethernet and Coax to every room in the house.
The most important wired connections I have are between the routers/nodes in the WiFi mesh network. Also great for tv locations and office/workspaces.
 
I also like the idea of a laundry shoot. I reckon we take pot shots at the stuff as it whizzes past an opening. Sounds like fun.
Had one growing up in my parent's house. Was on the main level of the house, in the linen closet. Shoot cam out on top of a table in the basement right across from the washer and dryer.

I'm sure I threw many toys down there as a kid.
Grandpa's house had one. Lots of stuff went down the choot.
 
I did a ton of research a number of years ago for this and I have kind of kept an updated list in my mind.... let me see what I remember....

Outdoor power outlets- if you put up Christmas lights, make sure they are up by the soffit.
Hose outlets on all sides of the house
Prewire motion sensor/video camera around the house
Garage side door
Keypad entry for garage
Expanded garage or a shed
Epoxy floors for garage and basement (assuming you have a basement and finishing it)
Wider hallways and doors than what seems to be 'normal' now
Energy efficiency in all areas, would consider solar/geothermal
Fans in most rooms (I hate uncirculated air)
Forget family and dining rooms unless you do or plan on doing a lot of hosting- instead office, home gym, entertainment room, etc
If you do ditch the dining room then make sure you give extra space to the 'breakfast nook' which is where everyone ends up eating anyways
Don't waste space, for example, if you have stairs, using the space under the stairs for storage space versus closed off void space or cabinet space from the corners
A 'Costco' door = a small door accessed from the garage directly to the pantry, big enough to move groceries through
If kids or dogs, a good sized mud room with a dog washing station (also good to wash off the kids!)
All connected 'smart' home
Built in wiring for speakers in certain areas of the house and backyard
Master bath a walk in shower with all the fun stuff in it, in at least one common bathroom a tub (even if you don't want one, resale wise this is important)
Battery and/or generator system
A second sink in the kitchen island
If a basement, doing a deep pour basement. Also, back up sump pump that has alarm features
Cabinet lighting
If two story, laundry chute or laundry room on same floor as bedrooms
Outlet near master bathroom toilet for a nightlight
Outdoor living area based around a fire pit and with grilling station, have gas run there and if we are going for the perfect house... a pool.
I am a bit taller than most, so higher height on all sinks, tabletops, etc
 
Gally said single floor so no laundry shoot.

Of second floor, would recommend the laundry room be on the same floor as the bedroom(s).
 
one level rancher, master bedroom on ones side of the house, other bedroom or two on the other side.

Open floor plan otherwise.

Just a giant rectangle and not a lot of different elevations or dormers on the roof. Roof should be easily walkable. (Not a steep pitch)

4’ overhangs - keeps the water away from your foundation walls.

Keep things simple and maintenance free.
 
When we bought our first home, we were wowed by it because it was the "show home" - first home of the subdivision. It had all the bells and whistles of the time (first house was built in 1990) but it had an intercom system, burglar alarm, whole house audio and a bunch of other things a first time homebuyer would be impressed with instead of things I later would "require."

Our second home, the home which we now live in, has the following things we both strongly wanted after having lived in a hastily built, 2 story, starter home:

1.) All brick, raised ranch - the first home was 2 stories of really cheap vinyl siding. My brother replaced the vinyl siding on his home with insulated, thick vinyl and it's very nice, the installers did a nice job and it made a huge difference on his home but it was 15k like 10 years ago, I can't imagine what that costs now plus it fades and can still get damaged by heavy storms.

2.) Flat driveway. Our first home had a steep driveway, it was awful in the winter time.

3.) 3 car garage with a large driveway. Our first home had a small, steep driveway with a 2 car garage and it was awful. It also had a window in the garage because the house was the first home/spec home and the garage was the office.

4.) Basement or crawl space. Our first home was built on a slab, we had some issues with it, I like our crawl space but I really wanted a basement.

5.) Highest elevation you can find in the area you're building in so you don't have to worry about water runoff problems. My neighbor b$tched at me for an hour one day, complaining to me how all the water runoff from my home drains into his yard, basement, pool, etc. I didn't know how to answer him so I said "you could move?" He walked away. We bought our home 12 or 13 years after it was built, I don't have a time machine but if I did, I'd make more water run off my property into his to pi## him all that much more. . . and I'd build a basement and a pantry.

6.) Pantry - first home had a nice walk in pantry, I kinda miss that. Wifey misses it A LOT.

7.) We have a stupid built in desk in our kitchen, we never use it because it's small, low and useless. If I didn't have legs and a torso it would still be useless but at least I would be able to sit at the desk and not use it for anything. However, at least I could fling my head, neck, arms and hands on it and comfortably gripe about how useless it is there whilst perched on some sort of miniature chair from a kindergarten for torso-less, legless people.

8.) There's a section of our home that gets so much water runoff from the amount of rain and the pitch of the roof that our 5-inch gutter section just gets overwhelmed at times. I need to get that replaced with 6 inch gutter but that should have been designed better.

9.) Every place you have a water valve, I would make D&MN certain it's a ball valve. I've screwed myself so many times on broken gate valves it's not even funny, in fact, I hate those gate valves so much that I replace ALL of them with ball valves right out of the gate. Before the internet, back in the stone age, my water heater broke in our first home at 3:30 AM. I woke up to the sound of a pop / boom and water flooding the utility room. I tried to turn of the water to the water heater, blap, broken valve. Next water valve up the chain was hidden in a closet (WTF. . . Why, just why???) anyway, snap, broke that one too. I called a plumber and the guy said "it's 4 am buddy, I'm not coming over, it's time for you to be a man, get a flashlight, put on a robe, walk around your front yard until you see something labeled WATER. That's your water main into your home, open up the cover and look around for a key, use the key to shut off the water main. If you don't find the key, you're screwed - call another plumber - I'm not coming out. . . you're welcome . . . call me later in the day at a decent time and I'll replace those crappy valves with proper valves for you.

10.) This one is more philosophical. Our first home you parked your car, opened the garage door, walked through a mud room, then the living room, then you walked through the dining room and then into the kitchen. I passionately hated that design because in the rain, cold, winter, fall you're dragging wet, dirty shoes or leaves or snow through the house and you're constantly cleaning/moping that up or walking on throw rugs. Our current home, you park your car and walk through a mudroom straight into the kitchen - it's perfect.

11.) Bonus thing - if I were designing our current home over again, it's pretty much perfect except I would put a basement under it and use the basement for a big entertainment/TV room plus workout room, maybe a couple of offices, utility room, storage, etc. and I would not have a dining room (there's only three of us, we have plenty of room in the kitchen to eat) and we never entertain. Lastly, I would put French doors on our dining room and make it an enclosed office so my wife has privacy. We both mostly work from home, she uses the useless dining room so I have to tiptoe around the kitchen sometimes when I get coffee, if I clang and bang around in there while she's on the phone, sometimes I get the death stare, which always cracks me up.
 
When we bought our first home, we were wowed by it because it was the "show home" - first home of the subdivision. It had all the bells and whistles of the time (first house was built in 1990) but it had an intercom system, burglar alarm, whole house audio and a bunch of other things a first time homebuyer would be impressed with instead of things I later would "require."

Our second home, the home which we now live in, has the following things we both strongly wanted after having lived in a hastily built, 2 story, starter home:

1.) All brick, raised ranch - the first home was 2 stories of really cheap vinyl siding. My brother replaced the vinyl siding on his home with insulated, thick vinyl and it's very nice, the installers did a nice job and it made a huge difference on his home but it was 15k like 10 years ago, I can't imagine what that costs now plus it fades and can still get damaged by heavy storms.

2.) Flat driveway. Our first home had a steep driveway, it was awful in the winter time.

3.) 3 car garage with a large driveway. Our first home had a small, steep driveway with a 2 car garage and it was awful. It also had a window in the garage because the house was the first home/spec home and the garage was the office.

4.) Basement or crawl space. Our first home was built on a slab, we had some issues with it, I like our crawl space but I really wanted a basement.

5.) Highest elevation you can find in the area you're building in so you don't have to worry about water runoff problems. My neighbor b$tched at me for an hour one day, complaining to me how all the water runoff from my home drains into his yard, basement, pool, etc. I didn't know how to answer him so I said "you could move?" He walked away. We bought our home 12 or 13 years after it was built, I don't have a time machine but if I did, I'd make more water run off my property into his to pi## him all that much more. . . and I'd build a basement and a pantry.

6.) Pantry - first home had a nice walk in pantry, I kinda miss that. Wifey misses it A LOT.

7.) We have a stupid built in desk in our kitchen, we never use it because it's small, low and useless. If I didn't have legs and a torso it would still be useless but at least I would be able to sit at the desk and not use it for anything. However, at least I could fling my head, neck, arms and hands on it and comfortably gripe about how useless it is there whilst perched on some sort of miniature chair from a kindergarten for torso-less, legless people.

8.) There's a section of our home that gets so much water runoff from the amount of rain and the pitch of the roof that our 5-inch gutter section just gets overwhelmed at times. I need to get that replaced with 6 inch gutter but that should have been designed better.

9.) Every place you have a water valve, I would make D&MN certain it's a ball valve. I've screwed myself so many times on broken gate valves it's not even funny, in fact, I hate those gate valves so much that I replace ALL of them with ball valves right out of the gate. Before the internet, back in the stone age, my water heater broke in our first home at 3:30 AM. I woke up to the sound of a pop / boom and water flooding the utility room. I tried to turn of the water to the water heater, blap, broken valve. Next water valve up the chain was hidden in a closet (WTF. . . Why, just why???) anyway, snap, broke that one too. I called a plumber and the guy said "it's 4 am buddy, I'm not coming over, it's time for you to be a man, get a flashlight, put on a robe, walk around your front yard until you see something labeled WATER. That's your water main into your home, open up the cover and look around for a key, use the key to shut off the water main. If you don't find the key, you're screwed - call another plumber - I'm not coming out. . . you're welcome . . . call me later in the day at a decent time and I'll replace those crappy valves with proper valves for you.

10.) This one is more philosophical. Our first home you parked your car, opened the garage door, walked through a mud room, then the living room, then you walked through the dining room and then into the kitchen. I passionately hated that design because in the rain, cold, winter, fall you're dragging wet, dirty shoes or leaves or snow through the house and you're constantly cleaning/moping that up or walking on throw rugs. Our current home, you park your car and walk through a mudroom straight into the kitchen - it's perfect.

11.) Bonus thing - if I were designing our current home over again, it's pretty much perfect except I would put a basement under it and use the basement for a big entertainment/TV room plus workout room, maybe a couple of offices, utility room, storage, etc. and I would not have a dining room (there's only three of us, we have plenty of room in the kitchen to eat) and we never entertain. Lastly, I would put French doors on our dining room and make it an enclosed office so my wife has privacy. We both mostly work from home, she uses the useless dining room so I have to tiptoe around the kitchen sometimes when I get coffee, if I clang and bang around in there while she's on the phone, sometimes I get the death stare, which always cracks me up.
Depending on your layout you might be able to fix 6 and 7 by turning the stupid desk into a pantry. We have the same situation in our kitchen. In a space between two openings (dining room and mud/laundry) I have a double oven and that stupid desk 'built in' together. The plan when we remodel is to take out the desk and the small shallow cabinets above it and make it into a pantry as deep as the ovens with a couple nearly full height doors. Probably have small (above the fridge type cabinets on top for kitchen gadgets- we like to cook.). Perfect spot for it in the kitchen, no idea why the builder went the desk route (likely cost).

Regarding 8, I have a similar issue with a poor roof/runoff design. Live in Cincinnati so we get some good storms and a 6" gutter with additional flashing as a backstop/splash guard can't handle it. So I get a temporary water feature that dumps water right onto the front flower bed/walkway. Worst part is it sends all the mulch out of the bed onto the front walkway.
 
7.) We have a stupid built in desk in our kitchen, we never use it because it's small, low and useless. If I didn't have legs and a torso it would still be useless but at least I would be able to sit at the desk and not use it for anything. However, at least I could fling my head, neck, arms and hands on it and comfortably gripe about how useless it is there whilst perched on some sort of miniature chair from a kindergarten for torso-less, legless people.
When we remodeled our kitchen we put in a desk area in the corner with windows looking out into our yard. It was perfect for kids to do homework and do office type work when needed. We have a big enough kitchen area that it is out of the way so it doesn't affect kitchen movement and was close enough that we could be doing dinner prep/other kitchen activities and be close to the kids if they had any issues with homework. Could also keep an eye on them if they were screwing off and not getting work done. It was good for us.

But I understand if it didn't fit your needs, took up too much kitchen, and was designed too terrible to be of any use.
 
6.) Pantry - first home had a nice walk in pantry, I kinda miss that. Wifey misses it A LOT.
This is a must have. We did this in our current house kitchen remodel. Also have the auto light I put in the OP. Such a great addition you will not be sorry.
 
5.) Highest elevation you can find in the area you're building in so you don't have to worry about water runoff problems.
The land is sloped front to back. It's a gradual slope but it all goes front to back down to a creek that flows year round at the edge of the property that leads to the lake. It also has varying slopes and gets steeper towards the back of the property as well. The house site is flat enough (I think) that it won't require a stepped floor plan. If it does I plan to do a walk out basement and have the living space on the upper floor with just the basement downstairs. Not quite there on the design part to know for sure.
 
10.) This one is more philosophical. Our first home you parked your car, opened the garage door, walked through a mud room, then the living room, then you walked through the dining room and then into the kitchen. I passionately hated that design because in the rain, cold, winter, fall you're dragging wet, dirty shoes or leaves or snow through the house and you're constantly cleaning/moping that up or walking on throw rugs. Our current home, you park your car and walk through a mudroom straight into the kitchen - it's perfect.
We are planning on having the garage open to an additional storage area for supplies and then have that lead to the kitchen. No way do I want to trapse through the entire house from the garage to get to the kitchen where most of the groceries need to go anyway. Our general layout accounts for this. We are still trying to visualize some of the pathways to maximize space and utility so maybe we will consult one of those architect types since they are supposed to know about this sort of thing.
 
2.) Flat driveway. Our first home had a steep driveway, it was awful in the winter time.
Being that we will get snow in the area at times this is of definite concern. Since it will be our retirement home I won't have to leave the house if the weather is too bad so It's not a huge concern. Definitely looking for cold weather suggestions to make life easier for snow/ice conditions as I have never lived any length of time in those conditions. The area we will be in won't get that cold or get that much snow but it can happen and want to make sure I have the right things to make life easier in these conditions.
 
Wider doors jams to make moving things in and out of rooms easier
Unless you are spreading this on toast, the word is "jamb."
Wider door. Jambs sound cool, but no.


this is why you need to hire architects, people. We know all the cool words.
Everyone knew what I meant. I was speaking to the masses not those A$$hole architects
Yeah. They're the worst, those dooshnizzles.
 
Keep things simple and maintenance free.
I am all about the maintenance free. I don't want to be overrun with yard work in my retirement years. I hate yardwork. I plan a natural landscape that is zero to low maintenance for sure.

It's part of why I started this thread to take the collective experience of people to learn things I might not even know that I don't know.
 
2.) Flat driveway. Our first home had a steep driveway, it was awful in the winter time.
Being that we will get snow in the area at times this is of definite concern. Since it will be our retirement home I won't have to leave the house if the weather is too bad so It's not a huge concern. Definitely looking for cold weather suggestions to make life easier for snow/ice conditions as I have never lived any length of time in those conditions. The area we will be in won't get that cold or get that much snow but it can happen and want to make sure I have the right things to make life easier in these conditions.
I was going to recommend something, but architects are the worst.
 
I'm sorry for being annoying here, gb gally. You don't deserve that.

I'll leave you to it here. Good luck with the house.
 
5.) Highest elevation you can find in the area you're building in so you don't have to worry about water runoff problems.
The land is sloped front to back. It's a gradual slope but it all goes front to back down to a creek that flows year round at the edge of the property that leads to the lake. It also has varying slopes and gets steeper towards the back of the property as well. The house site is flat enough (I think) that it won't require a stepped floor plan. If it does I plan to do a walk out basement and have the living space on the upper floor with just the basement downstairs. Not quite there on the design part to know for sure.
My lot is similar, except the idiot who built it didn't want to spend another few grand to get the grade at the top of the lot above street level. He would only have had to raise it about 18" over about 3,000 sq ft. But no - he built the house below street level and the lot slopes all the way to the creek at the bottom of my yard. My driveway slopes down from the street, which is fun when we get ice storms. It starts off gradual, gets steep when it gets to the front of the house, then flattens out towards the bottom. My house looks like a one-level from the street but the basement is fully exposed on the back. All of my living areas are on the main floor and the basement is unfinished.
 
11.) Bonus thing - if I were designing our current home over again, it's pretty much perfect except I would put a basement under it and use the basement for a big entertainment/TV room plus workout room, maybe a couple of offices, utility room, storage, etc.

Our plan is to have a bonus/sports room but not as a basement. It will be on the main floor and I plan to do a TV wall with either 4 screens that can be programmed to work together to make one big picture or 4 individual games. I have no idea how to do this and whether four individual screens or one monitor programmed to split into four picutures is best. This is one of the things I will be researching. Do I need a false wall to hold the components for this set up? What other things need to be considered?

I plan to have a small bar in the corner of the room with a beer fridge (may put a tap....still thinking about that). Lot's of space for memorabilia etc as well. Suggestions welcome.
 
I'm sorry for being annoying here, gb gally. You don't deserve that.

I'll leave you to it here. Good luck with the house.
I am 100% completely joking around. There is no ill will. I figured you were joking around as well. I actually would like any suggestions you have. I was hoping you would chime in but understand if you don't want to.
 
Ice melt/radiant heat for driveway... If that's a concern.

ETA... I didn't think you were offended, thanks. just wanted to stop myself from cluttering your thread with snarky comments.
 
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Ice melt/radiant heat for driveway... If that's a concern.

ETA... I didn't think you were offended, thanks. just wanted to stop myself from cluttering your thread with snarky comments.
I don't mind the snark. That's one of the benefits of the FFA........hahahaha
 

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