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Colin Kaepernick Thread and related anthem kneeling issues/news (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Dr. Awesome
- Start date
msommer
Footballguy
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
This thread gives a misleading impression of the board. Much like Trump himself, this is a topic conservatives flock to because (in addition to the obvious reasons) it riles people up and allows them to ignore the more substantive issues on which their side has become basically indefensible.
If you're a conservative and you want to talk politics around here or elsewhere, you have your choice between arguing that athletes should stand for the national anthem, defending this or trying to argue that this guy is innocent. Which would you choose?
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
This thread really has nothing to do with standing or kneeling for the NA anymore. It is about big business owners and how they are concerned about protecting their brand.
I never watch the NA nor do I care who stands or kneels. If Antonio Brown kneels but gives my team 10-150-2TDs that is fine with me.
The fact is there were only around 6 players kneeling after the first 5-6 games and if the media were not so obsessed with it nobody would even know who it was. Another issue that is being talked about is that the original message was lost a long time ago. Now it is a protest against Trump.
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TobiasFunke
Footballguy
The exact opposite of what you say could just as easily be true: the additional attention that Trump and other conservatives and some owners have brought to their protests gives them a way to get the original message across more effectively (acts as a signal boost) and therefore gives them more reason to do it. That's what Malcolm Jenkins is saying and doing here, and he is far more qualified to say what the players are and are not protesting than either of us.
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Mystery Achiever
Footballguy
Agree with that earlier in the season, but by the end they were back down to the seven protesting the original issue. I posted an article on them somewhere back in the thread, but can dig up again, if you're interested in hearing it from the seven instead of me. I will say that, depending on how the rule negotiations work out, it would not surprise me to see another temporary uptick like we did when the president got involved. Or if he gets involved which is widely expected as midterms approach. In fact, that fear by owners was mentioned by multiple NFL reporters as owners' motivation for developing the anthem rule to try to head it off.
ETA- Here's the article https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2752195-the-nfls-last-men-kneeling
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squistion
Footballguy
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
squistion
Footballguy
I didn't suggest that and I don't believe it is a Trump protest now. My point was Trump brought attention to something that had been largely forgotten.
Contrary to what you believe, the only purpose of the kneeling is not to spite Trump. From interviews I have seen the players still are talking about the issues that Kaep originally raised regarding disproportionate treatment of blacks by LEOs and the continued racism and discrimination against minorities.
msommer
Footballguy
Mystery Achiever
Footballguy
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
msommer
Footballguy
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
Insomniac
Footballguy
Q: Who made this about Trump? A: Trump made this about Trump.
My guess is when he does this every week from now until election day the conservative base backs him 100%. He doesn't care about respect for the military or patriotism it's just a political tactic to fire up his voters.
Trump will absolutely do everything he can to keep this story in the news. His supporters eat this up. It's very hard for them to defend caging little kids. Or choosing Putin over his own intelligence agency. But calling black guys unpatriotic? That's red meat to that audience. Trump would absolutely hate if no one kneeled in week one. It would ruin his best current talking point.
msommer
Footballguy
squistion
Footballguy
Will Dak Prescott's Protest Stance Affect How He's Viewed in Cowboys Locker Room?
https://www.si.com/nfl/video/2018/07/30/nfl-will-dak-prescott-protest-stance-affect-cowboys-locker-room?xid=si_video&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
How can it not? As mentioned in the video at the above link, if Dak had just only said “I’d never protest during the anthem" and left it at that, that probably wouldn't cause any issues with other players. But he had to take it further and parrot the anti-anthem meme of “I don’t think that’s the time or the venue to do so," and like all those who have used this argument, he was unable to list any acceptable time or a venue as an alternative.
https://www.si.com/nfl/video/2018/07/30/nfl-will-dak-prescott-protest-stance-affect-cowboys-locker-room?xid=si_video&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
How can it not? As mentioned in the video at the above link, if Dak had just only said “I’d never protest during the anthem" and left it at that, that probably wouldn't cause any issues with other players. But he had to take it further and parrot the anti-anthem meme of “I don’t think that’s the time or the venue to do so," and like all those who have used this argument, he was unable to list any acceptable time or a venue as an alternative.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
Mystery Achiever
Footballguy
Maybe it is just my personal interpretation of their words, but I thought Zeke's comments were worse than Dak's. As discussed, I thought Dak was appropriately deferential to the protesters. Zeke's words, though, came across to me more as "We're the Cowboys. We're better than that."
ETA Zeke's quote:
"Us as a team, we chose to stand together for the national anthem," he said. "It was our decision. I think it just shows our culture. It shows that we have unity. We're going to stand as one. That's not knocking anyone else who may choose to kneel during the national anthem. But we're the Dallas Football Cowboys, America's Team. We stand for the national anthem."
ETA Zeke's quote:
"Us as a team, we chose to stand together for the national anthem," he said. "It was our decision. I think it just shows our culture. It shows that we have unity. We're going to stand as one. That's not knocking anyone else who may choose to kneel during the national anthem. But we're the Dallas Football Cowboys, America's Team. We stand for the national anthem."
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squistion
Footballguy
Dak Prescott gets called out by Raiders linebacker after being critical of player protests
https://sports.yahoo.com/dak-prescott-gets-called-raiders-linebacker-critical-player-protests-044319643.html?soc_src=community&soc_trk=tw
Here is what Tahir Whitehead said yesterday:
"Sounds like Dak don’t wanna lose that Campbells Chunky Soup deal!"
https://sports.yahoo.com/dak-prescott-gets-called-raiders-linebacker-critical-player-protests-044319643.html?soc_src=community&soc_trk=tw
Here is what Tahir Whitehead said yesterday:
"Sounds like Dak don’t wanna lose that Campbells Chunky Soup deal!"
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
Mystery Achiever
Footballguy
Well, maybe after you all get bored with Dak, Plus, Dak's grammar is better.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
Trump made it about Trump and the players swallowed it hook, line and sinker. It took away from the reason to kneel in the first place which nobody ever talks about now.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
Why? If you ever heard talk speak he is well versed on social topics and how he relates different and can see both sides of issues because of being raised my a white mother and grandparents.
Dak is not saying don`t protest..he just feels that minute or two before the game is a special time for people to come together. Drew Brees said the same thing but nobody cares.
Drew Brees: "Protesting as it pertains to the national anthem, I will always feel that if you are an American, that the national anthem is the opportunity for us all to stand up together, to be unified and to show respect for our country. To show respect for what it stands for - the birth of our nation. There will always be issues with our country, there will always be things that we're battling and we should always strive to make those things better."
Brees continued to strongly emphasize the national anthem should be a moment for everyone to come together.
"If the protest becomes we're going to sit down or kneel or not show respect to the flag of the United States of America and everything it symbolizes and everything it stands for, everything our country has stood for to get to this point, I do not agree with that," Brees said. "I feel like the anthem should be a unifying thing"
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He tried to play both sides of the fence and now he's getting pushback from other players in the league. Yes, Dak is well-spoken and from what I understand, a good leader. He should have been smart enough to know not to comment on this issue. He was trying to make himself look like he is in the (black) players' corner but also wanted to sound like a good soldier for Jerry Jones. It's a no win for him. He's trying to be everything to everyone and it's biting him in the ###. You can't support the slaves and the slave master.
squistion
Footballguy
They actually are still talking about it (see article Mystery Achiever linked) but people like you don't want to listen and keep repeating the meme that "This is just about Trump".
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
squistion
Footballguy
I don't think it is prerequisite to be raised by white people to be able to see both sides of an issue or that being raised by black parents precludes any such objectivity.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
It does not..but Dak himself said it gives him a different perspective on issues an more open minded....you should take a lesson.
I don't think it is prerequisite to be raised by white people to be able to see both sides of an issue or that being raised by black parents precludes any such objectivity.
squistion
Footballguy
Well, if you don't care to listen to what the players who have been involved in this protest are saying, then you can't accurately say that no one ever talks about the original and continued purpose of the protests now, can you?
squistion
Footballguy
Kaep was raised by parents who are 100% white and he does not share Dak's perspective...you should take a lesson.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
The issue is rarely discussed unless Trump tweets something or the NFL stupidly changes a policy. Then it goes away. Other than a handful of players like Malcolm Jenkins, how many are really talking about police brutality?
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
Quite dismissive of Dak's perspective on this issue.squistion said:
Insomniac
Footballguy
I understand what Brees is saying but he doesn't seem to understand how historically poorly the nation has lived up to these ideals for people of color. It's true things are a lot better now than they were prior to the Civil Rights movement in the 1950's and 60's. Being better than 50 or 60 years ago isn't the standard we should strive for or be completely satisfied with as apparently Brees is.Da Guru said:
Ketamine Dreams
Footballguy
Mystery Achiever
Footballguy
I pulled these a couple of moths ago. And, yes, lots of Jenkins. Includes social justice reform broadly, not just police brutality.Ramblin Wreck said:
http://www.nfl.com/letslistentogether
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/17766312/doug-baldwin-working-building-bridges-task-force-police-training-policies
https://www.necn.com/news/new-england/NFL-Players-Attend-Criminal-Justice-Summit-at-Harvard-University-Law-School-477722433.html
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000932618/article/malcolm-jenkins-richard-sherman-host-players-coalition-events
https://www.sbnation.com/2018/5/15/17358120/demario-davis-ben-watson-new-orleans-saints-hb265
https://www.pennlive.com/philadelphiaeagles/index.ssf/2017/10/3_philadelphia_eagles_head_to.html
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2018/06/07/jets-owner-and-3-nfl-players-ask-cuomo-for-bail-reform/35804693/
squistion
Footballguy
I have said all along Dal has the right to his opinion and to state it publically just like Kaepernick. And I am certainly no more dismissive of his perspective than you and many of the others here have been of Kaep's (whose adoptive parents are white).
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
LOL what in the world does CK's parents being white have to do with this conversation? Literally everything is about race for you.
squistion
Footballguy
If you have been reading the thread, it came into the conversation because Da Guru said this about Dak and his racial family background:
53 minutes ago, Da Guru said:
Why? If you ever heard talk speak he is well versed on social topics and how he relates different and can see both sides of issues because of being raised my a white mother and grandparents.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
The post your replied to was about your dismissive attitude towards Dak and your whataboutism involving Kaepernick and other posters here.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
I have said all along that Kappy has the right to do anything he wants. The owners also have the right to do what they want.
Dak and Brees can say what they want. We just have to respect and be tolerant with all views and try to be open minded.
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squistion
Footballguy
Of course they can and who has suggested otherwise? However saying what they want does not insulate them from criticism for their words. If Dak is going to repeat the anti-anthem meme of “I don’t think that’s the time or the venue to do so" then he and his supporters should have expected the backlash that has occurred from other NFL players and also from those fighting racial discrimination in this country.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Hm my desire to stay out good thread is struggling with my sworn duty to defend Drew Brees. What to do, what to do...
rustycolts
Footballguy
I have stated before it is the players right as an American to protest during the Anthem if that is what they feel they need to do. In the real world most companies have rules or lists of acceptable behavior if an employee breaks them then they are terminated. Does the NFL have the right to do the same? I don't know if they do or not because it is not the real world. I will say if the protests bother you then stop watching. The protest did bother me. I didn't like politics brought into something I used to escape the real world for a few hours every week. Plus it did bother me that they were kneeling during the Anthem. Again I do understand it is their right but it is also mine not to agree with what they were doing. I solved it really easy I just stopped watching. I didn't miss it at all. I found that there were plenty of other things I could do on a Sunday afternoon. Last year was the first time I had not watched a Super Bowl in almost 50 years. I lived.
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