Chiefs linebackers thread (1 Viewer)

[The Jacket]

So it seems that no one has known all offseason whether it's DJ-Harris-Edwards, or Williams-Edwards-DJ, or whatever else. The following excerpts provide a little insight into the competition, but I'm afraid it's going to be a muddy situation for another couple of weeks.

Right now, Johnson, Pat Thomas and Demorrio Williams are playing linebacker the way Cunningham wants. They were able to take that from the practice field to the playing field last Thursday against the Bears.

“We’ve found three guys,” Cunningham said. “We are looking for more. I think we have a fourth, but we are still looking for more.”

Possible starting lineup? I'm not so sure Edwards isn't guaranteed a spot, unless his injury really does linger.

The player who has stepped forward and surprised Chiefs fans is Thomas. Signed during the season last year after he was released by Jacksonville, Thomas played in just four games and was largely active only in the kicking game.

But he started showing himself in the off-season program. When Cunningham grew unhappy with Harris and his play in the middle, he made the switch to Thomas and it’s stuck.

“He played a good game in Chicago, really showed his abilities,” Cunningham said. “He’s intelligent, he’s athletic and he’s tough. There have been times in practice where I’ve called out ‘Nice play D.J.’ only to look closer and see it was Pat Thomas who made the play.”

You'd think Harris is definitely out the door. But we'll see.

Recently, the linebacker who has made the biggest jump is Williams. Signed in the off-season as an unrestricted free agent from Atlanta, he had trouble making the transition to Cunningham’s defense. But some of those mental clouds have lifted and he’s begun making plays.

“We are giving him a chance to do some things he never had the chance to do down in Atlanta,” Cunningham said. “This is a very athletic guy.”

During Sunday’s practice, Cunningham had Williams rushing the passer off the edge of a 3-3-5 defensive look. His combination of speed with his ability to get low to the ground made him almost unstoppable for the Chiefs pass protection.

Or maybe Edwards' starting spot isn't a lock after all?I'll try to update this thread with any useful info. I can.

 

[Jene Bramel]

Great post, TJ, thanks for the notes.

 

[Rozelle]

Follow Al Davis' lead with Archuleta and go get Boulware from Minnesota. Of course you'll first have to convince him ... if he wants to play in the NFL, he's going to have to change positions. Boulware is having trouble with this.

 

[Donnybrook]

Per KFFL:

Chiefs | Hoyte receives work at middle linebacker

Wed, 13 Aug 2008 09:49:28 -0700

Adam Teicher, of The Kansas City Star, reports Kansas City Chiefs FB Oliver Hoyte worked as the starting middle linebacker Tuesday, Aug. 12, and will get a long look at the position. Injuries to linebackers Donnie Edwards (hamstring), Napoleon Harris (knee) and Pat Thomas (finger) have forced the Chiefs to try Hoyte on defense.

80 man roster and they can't find a LB to play the Mike. WTH is going on with this team?

 

[bcr8f]

THE DEFENSE

The Chiefs are sending linebacker Demorrio Williams after the quarterback frequently with good results. He would have had a sack on one play had tackle Anthony Alabi not tackled him. … At 5 feet 9 and 187 pounds, rookie cornerback Brandon Flowers yields eight inches and 64 pounds to Gonzalez, but that didn’t matter when Flowers went up high to break up a pass intended for the larger receiver. Almost as if to prove a point, Croyle went right back to Gonzalez on the next play and this time connected with Gonzalez with Flowers in coverage. … Safety Bernard Pollard had the hit of practice when he leveled running back Kolby Smith.

From Teicher

 

[Donnybrook]

A shortage at linebacker

Oliver Hoyte, acquired by the Chiefs on waivers from Dallas in the spring, began training camp as a fullback.

He was their starting middle linebacker today, having switched positions early in camp.

Injuries have prevented Donnie Edwards and Napoleon Harris from practicing for several days and neither will play in Saturday night’s game against Arizona at Arrowhead Stadium.

Starting middle linebacker Pat Thomas was mostly a bystander in practice because of a sore finger, though Herm Edwards indicated Thomas might resume practice and should play against the Cardinals.

That left eight healthy linebackers and one, Aden Durde, is with the Chiefs as a special European exemption because he was assigned by the NFL.

Hoyte played four seasons as a linebacker at North Carolina State. He was moved to fullback by the Cowboys.

Submitted by Adam Teicher on August 12, 2008 - 6:23pm.

http://chiefsblog.kansascity.com/?q=node/128I found the original blog report. It makes more sense now that I know that Hoyte was swithed early in camp and he played LB in college.

 

[-baller]

it seemed to me like demorrio always got good production when he saw the field in atlanta, I had just figured he was kind of stuck behind some quality linebackers on the depth chart.

a couple years ago they had a bunch of injuries and everyone was rotating around and getting time, and I thought he put up pretty decent #'s, or am I just remembering all this wrong?

 

[Jene Bramel]

it seemed to me like demorrio always got good production when he saw the field in atlanta, I had just figured he was kind of stuck behind some quality linebackers on the depth chart.a couple years ago they had a bunch of injuries and everyone was rotating around and getting time, and I thought he put up pretty decent #'s, or am I just remembering all this wrong?

You're remembering right. His numbers weren't indicative of great play, however. Most were well downfield in pursuit and many teams ran at the weakside because he was weak at the point of attack. He wasn't in high demand this preseason; there were a good number of OLB jobs open and he ended up (although KC is his hometown) signing with a team that had Derrick Johnson and Donnie Edwards presumably starting.An OLB role in a primary Cover-2 scheme is the best fit for him. If he starts, he's a reasonable IDP option.

 

[therokie0070]

if Dem. williams starts what kind of total tkls #s will he produce?

 

[gregjcross]

if Dem. williams starts what kind of total tkls #s will he produce?

Dem. Williams is plainly not starting material. It wouldnt last, and if it did, it would be totally unspectacular barring the Chiefs D-line imploding and their D team spending 70% of the time on the field.

 

[Los Gigantes]

if Dem. williams starts what kind of total tkls #s will he produce?

if he starts for the entire season with pat thomas at mlb (Edwards being put out to pasture coninuing the KC youth movement), 65-75 solos is likely. But more importantly, if 2/3 of the KC lb corps are thomas and williams, then bernard pollard moves from a top 10 DB to a top 3 DB.

if Dem. williams starts what kind of total tkls #s will he produce?

Dem. Williams is plainly not starting material. It wouldnt last, and if it did, it would be totally unspectacular barring the Chiefs D-line imploding and their D team spending 70% of the time on the field.

DW doesn't have to be that good to start. If KC realizes how bad they are, they will want to see what they have in younger players, and will likely phase out DE. Chiefs DLine imploding? possible. The D spending 70% of the time on the field? Likely. KC is going to be a very bad team this year, and their new coach will enjoy a top 5 draft pick.

 

[Beaumont]

if Dem. williams starts what kind of total tkls #s will he produce?

if he starts for the entire season with pat thomas at mlb (Edwards being put out to pasture coninuing the KC youth movement), 65-75 solos is likely. But more importantly, if 2/3 of the KC lb corps are thomas and williams, then bernard pollard moves from a top 10 DB to a top 3 DB.

if Dem. williams starts what kind of total tkls #s will he produce?

Dem. Williams is plainly not starting material. It wouldnt last, and if it did, it would be totally unspectacular barring the Chiefs D-line imploding and their D team spending 70% of the time on the field.

DW doesn't have to be that good to start. If KC realizes how bad they are, they will want to see what they have in younger players, and will likely phase out DE. Chiefs DLine imploding? possible. The D spending 70% of the time on the field? Likely. KC is going to be a very bad team this year, and their new coach will enjoy a top 5 draft pick.

He's back!

 

[The Jacket]

Cardinals game:-

Johnson was brilliant as per usual. Pat Thomas finally showed up a little, although I think he missed a tackle, and he definitely dropped a sure-fire INT. DeMorrio Williams was invisible.

Edwards and Harris didn't play. None of the backups did anything.

Pretty bleh for the most part, although I'll hold hope that Thomas can become something.

 

[-baller]

johnson's still sam, right?

 

[The Jacket]

It varied depending on down-and-distance. He made his tackle for no gain and forced fumble from the weak spot.

 

[bcr8f]

johnson's still sam, right?

He played ROLB.

 

[The Jacket]

Derrick Johnson practiced at weak-side linebacker Monday, and he also might line up sometimes as a pass rusher, Edwards said. Demorrio Williams also might rush the quarterback at times.

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/chiefs/story/754724.htmlThe following is much less credible, but still worth nothing:-

LB Donnie Edwards - He is still out with a sore hamstring, but right now the Chiefs seem content on going into the season with DeMorrio Williams, Derrick Johnson and Pat Thomas as the starters. Though individually they are still working to learn the new wrinkles of the defense, they are clearly the fastest three linebackers in camp. I’m not sure what that means for Edwards but when he’s healthy that only means this group will be better.

http://kan.scout.com/2/780820.html

 

[ebcpastor2004]

Does anyone know for sure whether Edwards will start or not?

Just asking...

 

[Markus P Dub]

Dem Williams broke his hand in practice yesterday and is out for the rest of the pre-season. Read it in the sporting news digital paper this morning.

 

[Benchwarmers]

Is Pat Thomas going to start in the middle?

Anyone want to guess what his stats would be if he does?

 

[Anthony Borbely]

It seems like he will, but I'll believe it when I see it. As a 2 down LB at best, I don't see much to be excited about.

 

[Jene Bramel]

Is Pat Thomas going to start in the middle? Anyone want to guess what his stats would be if he does?

Yes, he is. His ceiling is probably close to what Napoleon Harris did last season -- low 80s in solos without much in the way of peripheral coverage stats.

 

[obxlegends]

Looking into my crystal ball...

85 tackles 24 assists with 2 sacks & 1 int.

 

[The Jacket]

Reputable opinion:-

Count on Derrick Johnson, Demorrio Williams and Pat Thomas to be there as the Chiefs starters. Williams will not play over the rest of the pre-season because of a broken bone in his hand, but the Chiefs expect him to be ready to play in the season opener.

Also count in veteran Donnie Edwards who continues to rehab his hamstring pull and should be back on the practice field next week.

That’s four; it’s a struggle to find two or three more. Among the remaining LBs, rookie Wes Dacus has the best shot at making the final 53. He’s running fifth now, moving up to the starting group in Wednesday’s practice when Williams could not go with a finger injury. Dacus may get the start this Saturday against Miami.

Oliver Hoyte, LeRue Rumph and Steve Octavien have not been consistent enough in the pre-season to warrant a spot on the final roster. Rumph and/or Octavien could end up on the practice squad. E.J. Kuale has performed primarily in the kicking game.

And that leaves veteran Napoleon Harris. This will be an interesting call for the decision makers. Harris was a disappointment last year and he lost his starting job at middle linebacker early in training camp. Since then he’s been battling a knee injury. He would provide an experienced backup, but he would not be much help on special teams and the backup linebackers have to contribute in the kicking game. If he were not an unrestricted free agent signed last year, there’s no way he would make the team.

The Chiefs are really thin at LB. They need a MLB badly. Some OLB depth with both Edwards and Williams suffering from injuries would be welcomed, too. Expect them to scour the waiver wire hard.

 

[Zoomanji]

Reputable opinion:-

Count on Derrick Johnson, Demorrio Williams and Pat Thomas to be there as the Chiefs starters. Williams will not play over the rest of the pre-season because of a broken bone in his hand, but the Chiefs expect him to be ready to play in the season opener.

Also count in veteran Donnie Edwards who continues to rehab his hamstring pull and should be back on the practice field next week.

That’s four; it’s a struggle to find two or three more. Among the remaining LBs, rookie Wes Dacus has the best shot at making the final 53. He’s running fifth now, moving up to the starting group in Wednesday’s practice when Williams could not go with a finger injury. Dacus may get the start this Saturday against Miami.

Oliver Hoyte, LeRue Rumph and Steve Octavien have not been consistent enough in the pre-season to warrant a spot on the final roster. Rumph and/or Octavien could end up on the practice squad. E.J. Kuale has performed primarily in the kicking game.

And that leaves veteran Napoleon Harris. This will be an interesting call for the decision makers. Harris was a disappointment last year and he lost his starting job at middle linebacker early in training camp. Since then he’s been battling a knee injury. He would provide an experienced backup, but he would not be much help on special teams and the backup linebackers have to contribute in the kicking game. If he were not an unrestricted free agent signed last year, there’s no way he would make the team.

The Chiefs are really thin at LB. They need a MLB badly. Some OLB depth with both Edwards and Williams suffering from injuries would be welcomed, too. Expect them to scour the waiver wire hard.

Wow I can't believe Harris is that bad.Wonder if he did get cut, if anyone would sign him.

Or if I should just cut him now

 

[GregR_2]

Anyone have an update on whether Derrick Johnson will start at weak or strong side LB?

 

[The Jacket]

For the first time in a long time, the Chiefs No. 1 defense was on the field. It was McBride-Tyler-Dorsey-Hali upfront, with Johnson-Thomas-Edwards at linebacker and the secondary of Surtain-Page-Pollard-Flowers. When the Chiefs went to nickel, Edwards left the field and Carr came on as the extra defensive back. When the defense went to the dime (4-1-6), Thomas left the field and CB Dimitri Patterson came on the field.

Edwards a two-down LB? We'll have to monitor DeMorrio Williams' health.

 

[Jayrod]

Anyone have an update on whether Derrick Johnson will start at weak or strong side LB?

Rumor is that he is supposed to be the Right OLB (stay on that side regardless of formation).But the preseason game I watched, he was moving back and forth with Williams depending on formation.He is definitely not the SLB. He may be a pure WLB, or may really be the ROLB when the season starts. Either way, its highly doubtful that he is the full time strong side backer. They've made a conscious effort to get him free to make more plays and are also sending him on blitzes a lot more this year.

 

[Jayrod]

For the first time in a long time, the Chiefs No. 1 defense was on the field. It was McBride-Tyler-Dorsey-Hali upfront, with Johnson-Thomas-Edwards at linebacker and the secondary of Surtain-Page-Pollard-Flowers. When the Chiefs went to nickel, Edwards left the field and Carr came on as the extra defensive back. When the defense went to the dime (4-1-6), Thomas left the field and CB Dimitri Patterson came on the field.

Edwards a two-down LB? We'll have to monitor DeMorrio Williams' health.

I think that is probably the case unless there is another injury to someone. He is 35 years old and I'm sure he's lost a step since even two years ago.I thought they were really wanting to have D-Williams out there as a starter, but he can't play MLB and I guess it really was Donnie's spot at the other outside. No way is Derrick Johnson coming off of the field as he is their only high quality backer. I guess that makes Williams the odd man out and solely a backup. That would make them pretty solid at OLB, but man do they need another MLB option.

 

[5Rings]

Reputable opinion:-

Count on Derrick Johnson, Demorrio Williams and Pat Thomas to be there as the Chiefs starters. Williams will not play over the rest of the pre-season because of a broken bone in his hand, but the Chiefs expect him to be ready to play in the season opener.

Also count in veteran Donnie Edwards who continues to rehab his hamstring pull and should be back on the practice field next week.

That’s four; it’s a struggle to find two or three more. Among the remaining LBs, rookie Wes Dacus has the best shot at making the final 53. He’s running fifth now, moving up to the starting group in Wednesday’s practice when Williams could not go with a finger injury. Dacus may get the start this Saturday against Miami.

Oliver Hoyte, LeRue Rumph and Steve Octavien have not been consistent enough in the pre-season to warrant a spot on the final roster. Rumph and/or Octavien could end up on the practice squad. E.J. Kuale has performed primarily in the kicking game.

And that leaves veteran Napoleon Harris. This will be an interesting call for the decision makers. Harris was a disappointment last year and he lost his starting job at middle linebacker early in training camp. Since then he’s been battling a knee injury. He would provide an experienced backup, but he would not be much help on special teams and the backup linebackers have to contribute in the kicking game. If he were not an unrestricted free agent signed last year, there’s no way he would make the team.

The Chiefs are really thin at LB. They need a MLB badly. Some OLB depth with both Edwards and Williams suffering from injuries would be welcomed, too. Expect them to scour the waiver wire hard.

Wow I can't believe Harris is that bad.Wonder if he did get cut, if anyone would sign him.

Or if I should just cut him now

Trade him to Atlanta for the 2 beans he has left in his pocket

 

[Ozymandias]

I am puzzled by the FBG projections on Derrick Johnson. He has moved from SSLB to WSLB or RSLB (depending on what you read). Everyone agrees (even his coaches) he is a force in the open field and want to free him up for more impact plays. But the projections have him virtually identical to last year (in fact, with 2 fewer sacks). What am I missing in this picture?

 

[Weiner Dog]

I am puzzled by the FBG projections on Derrick Johnson. He has moved from SSLB to WSLB or RSLB (depending on what you read). Everyone agrees (even his coaches) he is a force in the open field and want to free him up for more impact plays. But the projections have him virtually identical to last year (in fact, with 2 fewer sacks). What am I missing in this picture?

I was also about DJ's ranking, as well.

 

[Ozymandias]

I am puzzled by the FBG projections on Derrick Johnson. He has moved from SSLB to WSLB or RSLB (depending on what you read). Everyone agrees (even his coaches) he is a force in the open field and want to free him up for more impact plays. But the projections have him virtually identical to last year (in fact, with 2 fewer sacks). What am I missing in this picture?

I was also about DJ's ranking, as well.

Any opinion on this, Jene? You have him higher than anyone else in the rankings.

 

[Jene Bramel]

I am puzzled by the FBG projections on Derrick Johnson. He has moved from SSLB to WSLB or RSLB (depending on what you read). Everyone agrees (even his coaches) he is a force in the open field and want to free him up for more impact plays. But the projections have him virtually identical to last year (in fact, with 2 fewer sacks). What am I missing in this picture?

I was also about DJ's ranking, as well.

Any opinion on this, Jene? You have him higher than anyone else in the rankings.

Johnson is the only significant talent among the KC linebacking corps. Thomas could be a player, but he's yet to show it on Sundays. Johnson is easily the best all-around player among the KC front seven at this point; Jared Allen is no longer going to suck 50+ solos away from the linebacking unit. The Chiefs are likely to get a lot of tackle opportunity. Johnson looks like he's being used exclusively at WLB on a defense that wants to use a lot of Cover-2/Tampa-2 (if the DL cooperates). That's a recipe for 85+ solos (could be 90+ in things break perfectly) and Johnson has always had average to above-average peripheral stats.The uncertainly lies in Johnson's health -- he seems to wreck an ankle every season. But here's a guy that's had two seasons of 80 solos playing primarily SLB and battling some injury problems.My rankings are about tiers and upside. Johnson is near the top of the mid-LB2 tier because he could throw up a 92-20-5 season with a reasonable number of coverage stats. That's a top 25 ranking in most leagues. His floor (barring injury) is nowhere near as low as many of the others in that tier. My 22 ranking probably isn't all that different than those who have him in the high 30s -- it's likely the difference between 82 solos and 88 solos in the big picture.

 

[jgb95]

Hey Jene

What do think about Demorrio????

Is he every worthy of a roster spot right now.

On a DEEP IDP league

 

[Jene Bramel]

Hey JeneWhat do think about Demorrio????Is he every worthy of a roster spot right now.On a DEEP IDP league

He's probably worth a roster spot in deeper leagues as a guy with every-down potential. He could just as easily be a fringe, four or five down a week gimmicky nickel pass rusher by this time next week.

 

[jgb95]

Hey JeneWhat do think about Demorrio????Is he every worthy of a roster spot right now.On a DEEP IDP league

He's probably worth a roster spot in deeper leagues as a guy with every-down potential. He could just as easily be a fringe, four or five down a week gimmicky nickel pass rusher by this time next week.

This is my depth chart at LB so it'll be tought for him to see the field anyway (we start 4)Lance Briggs Demeco Ryans Jon Beason David Harris Patrick Willis James HarrisonGerris Wilkinson

 

[Ozymandias]

Hey JeneWhat do think about Demorrio????Is he every worthy of a roster spot right now.On a DEEP IDP league

He's probably worth a roster spot in deeper leagues as a guy with every-down potential. He could just as easily be a fringe, four or five down a week gimmicky nickel pass rusher by this time next week.

This is my depth chart at LB so it'll be tought for him to see the field anyway (we start 4)Lance Briggs Demeco Ryans Jon Beason David Harris Patrick Willis James HarrisonGerris Wilkinson

Must be nice to play in a 2 team league...

 

[jgb95]

Hey JeneWhat do think about Demorrio????Is he every worthy of a roster spot right now.On a DEEP IDP league

He's probably worth a roster spot in deeper leagues as a guy with every-down potential. He could just as easily be a fringe, four or five down a week gimmicky nickel pass rusher by this time next week.

This is my depth chart at LB so it'll be tought for him to see the field anyway (we start 4)Lance Briggs Demeco Ryans Jon Beason David Harris Patrick Willis James HarrisonGerris Wilkinson

Must be nice to play in a 2 team league...

LOLNo this is a 12 team dynasty salary cap league

 

[The Jacket]

Sorry for ignoring this for a while. Not that anyone missed me.

I'm not 100 percent sure who's starting at SLB/LOLB on Sunday. Both Edwards and D-Will are getting back from injury. I'd avoid both. Pat Thomas is the starter and Nap Harris is out with injury. The Cowboys' fifth-round pick Erik Walden will suit up but mostly play special teams.

I expect to see the starters an awful lot in this game; much more than usual and on all three downs.

 

[Jene Bramel]

Sorry for ignoring this for a while. Not that anyone missed me.

I'm not 100 percent sure who's starting at SLB/LOLB on Sunday. Both Edwards and D-Will are getting back from injury. I'd avoid both. Pat Thomas is the starter and Nap Harris is out with injury. The Cowboys' fifth-round pick Erik Walden will suit up but mostly play special teams.

I expect to see the starters an awful lot in this game; much more than usual and on all three downs.

You're doing great work in this thread. We all appreciate it. The above has been our consensus take as well, so I'm very happy to see that those closer to the situation are thinking the same.Thanks for keeping us updated.

 

[The Jacket]

Thomas: 5-2 ... didn't make any big/nice plays ... tough to make much of his game, New England was passing to the flats and deep so often.

DJ: 3-1, sack ... again, really tough to judge a LB going against New England, they don't run a standard offense ... made some very nice plays, though.

D-Will/Edwards: 4-0 combined ... pretty much invisible.

I think week two will be more of an indicator against a team that should run a lot.