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*** Chargers Official 2021 Thread - The Little Team That Couldn't *** (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Gr00vus
- Start date
wgoldsph
Footballguy
Marauder
Footballguy
Tau837
Footballguy
Marauder said:
The penalties were legit, so not sure that matters.
Ignoring the kneeldowns at the end of the WFT game, the Chargers have 3 TDs, 4 FGs, and 3 turnovers in 10 red zone possessions. I know the "fumble" call in week 1 was BS, but, even ignoring that drive altogether, the Chargers are averaging 3.8 points per red zone possession. That is awful and should be the #1 priority for improvement.
Despyzer
Lousy Attention Whore
I'm not one to blame losses on penalties, and I won't do so today, but I do have to say that a couple of them really stood out.
First, how can you call a quarterback as being in the grasp when no one is even grasping him?
Second, these taunting penalties are out of control. Years ago, refs could call an out-of-bounds catch complete if it appeared that the receiver would have remained inbounds if he hadn't been shoved by the defender. The NFL changed that rule because they didn't want refs to have to exercise that much judgment in determining a play. It really seems as if taunting, the way it was called this weekend (around the league, not just this game), is entirely speculative. Keenan wasn't even celebrating. He was ticked-off that the defender got away with a helmet-to-helmet hit.
Also, I'm sure that the illegal shift that negated a touchdown was legitimate, but it's definitely a little suspicious how we saw the post-TD infraction over and over again, but never got a glimpse at the penalty that was called.
Once again, not saying any of this changes the outcome, just frustrated that some of these calls seemed so nutty.
First, how can you call a quarterback as being in the grasp when no one is even grasping him?
Second, these taunting penalties are out of control. Years ago, refs could call an out-of-bounds catch complete if it appeared that the receiver would have remained inbounds if he hadn't been shoved by the defender. The NFL changed that rule because they didn't want refs to have to exercise that much judgment in determining a play. It really seems as if taunting, the way it was called this weekend (around the league, not just this game), is entirely speculative. Keenan wasn't even celebrating. He was ticked-off that the defender got away with a helmet-to-helmet hit.
Also, I'm sure that the illegal shift that negated a touchdown was legitimate, but it's definitely a little suspicious how we saw the post-TD infraction over and over again, but never got a glimpse at the penalty that was called.
Once again, not saying any of this changes the outcome, just frustrated that some of these calls seemed so nutty.
Tau837
Footballguy
FWIW, the Athletic Chargers beat writer, Daniel Popper, wrote about the illegal shift and confirmed the call was legit.
I agree the "in the grasp" call seemed inappropriate, but I think it would been intentional grounding if they did not call in the grasp. The ball didn't reach the line of scrimmage and wasn't close to any receiver. If I'm correct on that, the down and distance result would have been the same. So I don't think that call had any effect on the outcome.
Agree the taunting stuff seems ridiculous.
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Wow. Talk about a rollercoaster of emotions in this one. So nice to come out on the good end. Staley showing some steel nuts today.
One of the funniest not funny moments of the day...1st and goal from the 6. 4 minutes left to play and down by 3. They bring in an extra tackle(Pipkins) who promptly jumps offside. Romo: "Thanks for playing today Pip."
One of the funniest not funny moments of the day...1st and goal from the 6. 4 minutes left to play and down by 3. They bring in an extra tackle(Pipkins) who promptly jumps offside. Romo: "Thanks for playing today Pip."
Gr00vus
Footballguy
Gr00vus
Footballguy
Was impressed with the secondary yesterday. Was not impressed with the run D. Someone relatively soon will figure out they can just go with a run heavy game plan - Chiefs were 44 pass vs 30 run (I think) - and dominate this team. And I don't think the Chargers can gameplan/adjust to fix that much (without subsequently having problems vs. the pass) - they just don't have the horses in the middle up front. Glad we got McKitty and Palmer instead of mining for DTs - sweet drafting Telesco.
The Chargers tried to blow this with missed XPs, illegal shifts (costing themselves another TD again), false starts and Guyton dropping a TD at the end of the 1st, but give them credit for not folding under all that. Loved going for it on 4th and 9 - would have loved that choice even if they didn't pick it up.
The Chargers tried to blow this with missed XPs, illegal shifts (costing themselves another TD again), false starts and Guyton dropping a TD at the end of the 1st, but give them credit for not folding under all that. Loved going for it on 4th and 9 - would have loved that choice even if they didn't pick it up.
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Tau837
Footballguy
I like the coaching staff for sure and view it as a definite upgrade over the Lynn and McCoy staffs for sure and likely on its way to being better than Norv's staffs.
I also like the times they went for it on 4th down, but I would also point out that the conditions made those choices easier - winds up to 20 mph, which presumably contributed to Vizcaino's misses.
I agree with concerns about the run defense. On the one hand, I know it is part of the defensive scheme to give up short gains, including runs, to (hopefully) avoid giving up big plays. This should work well against teams that don't have explosive offenses, and it also may increase the likelihood of turnovers against explosive offenses, as happened yesterday.
Going 2-1 out of the gate is better than I had expected. I had been cautiously expecting 9-10 wins but probably just missing the playoffs. I now think this team is good enough to earn a wild card spot, and failing to do that would be a disappointment, unless there is a rash of injuries that explains it (please, no...).
I think it is interesting that this coaching staff looks as if it will be able to achieve more with some of the previously underperforming talent (e.g., Mike Williams, Kyzir White, Nasir Adderley) while at the same time, IMO the fact that this new coaching staff is doing a better job with most players also highlights some of the bad drafting that occurred before they were on board (e.g., Pipkins, Tillery, Murray, Kelley).
IMO if the team does not make the playoffs this season, Telesco should be fired. I think he should be viewed as being on the hot seat right now. Hopefully the team will bail him out by making it. (Who am I kidding, as if the Chargers would actually fire him if they don't make it...)
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Gr00vus
Footballguy
Absolutely, that's what I loved about it, because I don't think regimes in the recent past would have gone for it even in these circumstances. They'd probably have gone with the brain dead FGA, maybe even a punt.
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Tau837
Footballguy
titusbramble
Footballguy
loooooool that thread title and i have no idea of the play(s) which caused it
Despyzer
Lousy Attention Whore
Cowboysfan8
Footballguy
Thread title 
The conditions were awful for kicking, and he had already missed an extra point. I don't think the decisions at the end were related to injury. I just think they had more confidence putting the game on the best player's shoulders instead of the kicker.
But maybe you're right. I have not heard anything either.
Tau837
Footballguy
Agree, there has been no indication that he has any injury. IMO it was mostly about (a) wind gusts of up to 20 mph, and (b) less than full confidence in Vizcaino to hit a pressure kick.
Tau837
Footballguy
Despite the 3-0 start, I think the Raiders will fade to 3rd or 4th in the division as the season plays out. Still, that was an impressive win. With a 3-1 start, it's time to reevaluate. At this point, it would be a major disappointment if the Chargers do not make the playoffs, and they seem to have a great chance to actually win the division.
The Browns will be their toughest test yet. KC is very good, but Cleveland has a much better defense. Cleveland's offense also matches up pretty well against the Chargers -- #1 rushing offense against the Chargers' #29 rushing defense. This is a huge game.
The Browns will be their toughest test yet. KC is very good, but Cleveland has a much better defense. Cleveland's offense also matches up pretty well against the Chargers -- #1 rushing offense against the Chargers' #29 rushing defense. This is a huge game.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
Browns game isn't quite as huge as it would have been if the Chargers lost last night. 3-2 after five games would be pretty good considering the schedule.
I really thought they were going to gag that one last night. I don't know what went on in the 3rd quarter, a collective team brain freeze, and the offensive line had problems that quarter.
Looks like going for it on 4th is going to be a thing. I like that.
Keenan Allen was off last night, dropped some balls he'd normally get - everything o.k. with him?
I'm still skeptical about the playoffs. The injuries haven't hit yet, and KC is still the best team in the division.
I really thought they were going to gag that one last night. I don't know what went on in the 3rd quarter, a collective team brain freeze, and the offensive line had problems that quarter.
Looks like going for it on 4th is going to be a thing. I like that.
Keenan Allen was off last night, dropped some balls he'd normally get - everything o.k. with him?
I'm still skeptical about the playoffs. The injuries haven't hit yet, and KC is still the best team in the division.
Tau837
Footballguy
Schedule to date:
- @WFT (2-2) - Win
- DAL (3-1) - Loss
- @KC (2-2) - Win
- LV (3-1) - Win
- CLE (3-1) - CLE is a contender for the AFC North division title and #1 AFC seed; toss up game since it is in Sofi (would project a loss if in CLE)
- @BAL (3-1) - BAL is a contender for the AFC North division title and #1 AFC seed; on the road across country with 1 pm start... probable loss
- Bye
- NE (1-3) - NE has a good defense, but a limited offense with a rookie QB and this is a cross country game for NE; should be a win
- @PHI (1-3) - cross country for Chargers but late afternoon game, which helps, and PHI is not very good; should be a win
- MIN (1-3) - MIN has an average offense and weak defense; should be a win at home
- PIT (1-3) - PIT has an average defense so far that could be much better if they get healthier, but their offense is pretty bad and it is a cross country game for PIT; should be a win
- @DEN (3-1) - DEN's 3 wins are NYG, JAX, and NYJ, so I doubt they are as good as their record, although they have a good defense; toss up game since it is a division game on the road
- @CIN (3-1) - CIN's 4 wins are MIN, @CHI, @PIT, and JAX, so I doubt they are as good as their record, and despite that schedule CIN's offense has been below average; should be a win
- NYG (1-3) - The Giants are average to below average at everything, and this is a cross country game for them; should be a win
- KC (2-2) - KC is a contender for the AFC West division title and #1 AFC seed; even though the Chargers beat them on the road, I'll call this a toss up
- @HOU (1-3) - HOU is currently ranked #28 or worse on both offense and defense; should be a win
- DEN (3-1) - See above; DEN should be out of the playoff race by this point, and the Chargers should be playing for a playoff spot at minimum and maybe also the division title and seeding; should be a win
- @LV (3-1) - The Chargers just beat the Raiders by 14 in a game that really didn't seem like it should have been that close, and the Chargers might have more to play for in this game; but I'll call it a toss up game since it is a division game on the road
I only see one probable loss and another 4 games that could go either way, which leaves 8 likely wins. (I mean, I get that they could lose any game on their schedule, just talking about what seems most likely today.)
That would mean an 11-6 record at worst, which should be good enough for a wild card. But if they split the toss up games, they would be 13-4, which would probably be good enough to win the division and earn a top 2-3 seed.
Of course, multiple serious injuries could obviously change everything, but right now this team looks like an unexpected (by me at least) contender.
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Tau837
Footballguy
ETA: I see that I had used the header remaining schedule, which apparently was confusing, though I would think anyone reading this thread would know that the first 4 games in the list had already happened... but I edited for clarity.
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TakiToki
Footballguy
My interest in the team pretty much revolves around my high share % of Ek, but looking at the schedule above, if lines were set now, I suspect it would be a dog at BAL and about pick 'em vs. KC, and favored in the rest. Obviously with this profile, variance is much more likely to catch you with a loss as a favorite than a win as a dog, but I'd be pretty dang excited were I a fan of this team. A real contender IMO.
Tau837
Footballguy
They are cornering the market on ex-Chargers - DC Bradley, CB Hayward, CB Facyson, DT Philon, DT Square, LB Perryman, S Teamer, LB Onwualu (PS)... did I miss anyone?
Gr00vus
Footballguy
4-1 Woohoo!?!?
250 rushing yards given up :X
Aboushi with a likely ACL injury.
You know me, way more into the cloud than the silver lining. The dline sucks. It's criminal the front office didn't do more to shore it up in the offseason.
And now we're heading back into Pipkins territory with the OL injuries - more front office failure.
And then there's the ongoing kicker
It's great the Herbert and the offense keep winning games, but eventually the lack of help in the other phases will catch up to them. Eventually they won't pick up one of these 4th downs and things'll be grim. And it's not a surprise either - they obviously didn't put enough emphasis on that stuff again this offseason, instead drafting 4th tight ends and 5th WRs.
I'll leave it to the rest of you to say happy things about this win. No way I thought the Chargers would be 4-1 at this point.
250 rushing yards given up :X
Aboushi with a likely ACL injury.
You know me, way more into the cloud than the silver lining. The dline sucks. It's criminal the front office didn't do more to shore it up in the offseason.
And now we're heading back into Pipkins territory with the OL injuries - more front office failure.
And then there's the ongoing kicker
It's great the Herbert and the offense keep winning games, but eventually the lack of help in the other phases will catch up to them. Eventually they won't pick up one of these 4th downs and things'll be grim. And it's not a surprise either - they obviously didn't put enough emphasis on that stuff again this offseason, instead drafting 4th tight ends and 5th WRs.
I'll leave it to the rest of you to say happy things about this win. No way I thought the Chargers would be 4-1 at this point.
Looks to me like you folks are doing fine with or without more DTs. 
You non Chargers fans obviously don't know what Post Traumatic Football Disorder is or you wouldn't be mocking us 
.
Actually I told myself I would feel better if they won on Sunday, but of course I feel the same scepticism. I can't help it!
They really had no business winning that game. All the injuries that Cleveland had and they still should have won. If not for that lucky PI call against Williams when it looked like Williams was the one that fouled they likely would have won.
But I do recognize that most fans would be happy to have what we have, so I am still very happy. No NFL team is perfect. The league is so insanely evenly balanced that any win matters. And the fact Chargers are pulling out these close battles says a lot about their toughness. Tons.
. Actually I told myself I would feel better if they won on Sunday, but of course I feel the same scepticism. I can't help it!
They really had no business winning that game. All the injuries that Cleveland had and they still should have won. If not for that lucky PI call against Williams when it looked like Williams was the one that fouled they likely would have won.
But I do recognize that most fans would be happy to have what we have, so I am still very happy. No NFL team is perfect. The league is so insanely evenly balanced that any win matters. And the fact Chargers are pulling out these close battles says a lot about their toughness. Tons.
Oh come on, there are plenty of organizations that have been worse than the Chargers over the years.You non Chargers fans obviously don't know what Post Traumatic Football Disorder is or you wouldn't be mocking us
Actually I told myself I would feel better if they won on Sunday, but of course I feel the same scepticism. I can't help it!
They really had no business winning that game. All the injuries that Cleveland had and they still should have won. If not for that lucky PI call against Williams when it looked like Williams was the one that fouled they likely would have won.
But I do recognize that most fans would be happy to have what we have, so I am still very happy. No NFL team is perfect. The league is so insanely evenly balanced that any win matters. And the fact Chargers are pulling out these close battles says a lot about their toughness. Tons.
The funny thing to me is how unrealistic most of you are- "it's a complete failure that we didn't add 4 more all-pro offensive linemen, and 3 stud DTs, and why on earth couldn't they get Justin Tucker?"
The Chargers had a terrific offseason, one of if not the very best in the entire league. Enjoy it.
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You non Chargers fans obviously don't know what Post Traumatic Football Disorder is or you wouldn't be mocking us
Actually I told myself I would feel better if they won on Sunday, but of course I feel the same scepticism. I can't help it!
They really had no business winning that game. All the injuries that Cleveland had and they still should have won. If not for that lucky PI call against Williams when it looked like Williams was the one that fouled they likely would have won.
But I do recognize that most fans would be happy to have what we have, so I am still very happy. No NFL team is perfect. The league is so insanely evenly balanced that any win matters. And the fact Chargers are pulling out these close battles says a lot about their toughness. Tons.
Pessimistic Fans are fascinating to me.
Serious Question: Right now today going forward, what NFL teams have a brighter future than the Chargers?
Tau837
Footballguy
Yes, woohoo!!!!
This one is easy. Consider last season:
- Pipkins played 554 snaps at LT; the combination of Bulaga and Norton should be an upgrade
- 1174 snaps at RG were played by Trai Turner (536), Cole Toner (279), Ryan Groy (271), Tyree St. Louis (79), and Quessenberry (9); Schofield should be an upgrade
- Feeney played all 1174 snaps at C; Linsley is a massive upgrade
- Lamp played all 1174 snaps at LG; Feiler is a massive upgrade
- 1164 snaps at LT were played by Tevi (1015), Norton (134), and Pipkins (15); Slater is a massive upgrade
- Anthony Lynn's coaching staff was running the offense; Staley's coaching staff is a massive upgrade
If the team suffers more injuries to the OL, especially Slater, Feiler, and/or Linsley, I'll be very concerned. But for now, they should be fine. Schofield played 70 snaps at RG yesterday, and the offense rolled.
I agree. The roster clearly had 3 problems entering the season IMO: OL depth; DL depth/rotation; and S depth. These were all known issues entering the offseason. The team addressed other issues, some of which were significant, some of which were not (e.g., 3rd round picks). It is generally working out so far, but there are definitely risk areas that could result in big issues.
I would love to believe the Chargers would actually consider trading for DL help before the trade deadline, assuming they could actually acquire a veteran, perhaps on an expiring contract, from a team that is not contending. It hasn't been Telesco's MO in the past, but perhaps this is different... a real contender. Not holding my breath.
You non Chargers fans obviously don't know what Post Traumatic Football Disorder is or you wouldn't be mocking us
This is definitely true. But I have broken through and have reoriented myself to severe optimism.
Tau837
Footballguy
This warranted its own post, especially since @Joe Bryant liked it.
The bolded part of your post is a strawman. No one has said that. No one has implied that. There is no need for you to come into the Chargers thread and throw out snarky strawmen. So I'll ask you to refrain from doing so in the future.
The Chargers had a great offseason, agreed. But, if you follow the team, you see opportunities for greater improvement.
Easy example. Entering the draft, OL depth, IDL rotation/starters/depth, and S depth were known issues. The Chargers used a 3rd round pick on WR Palmer and another 3rd round pick on TE McKitty. Neither WR nor TE were needs for the Chargers, and neither player has really contributed. Palmer has made a minor contribution that could have been made by others; McKitty has made no contribution.
On top of that, the Chargers have plenty of cap room left that could have been potentially applied to help the team.
Do those things diminish the good things the Chargers did? No.
Do they indicate areas the Chargers could have done more? Yes. Could those things have had a positive impact on this roster and this season? Yes.
Both things can be true -- that the Chargers had a great offseason, and yet it could have been even greater.
I think he’s less talking strawmen and more eye rolling at perceived greedy unhappiness.
I’d ask the same question: Right now today going forward, what NFL teams have a brighter future than the Chargers?
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Tau837
Footballguy
@Joe Bryant, what I bolded in his post is a strawman, period. If you disagree, please point to where anyone said anything close to the bolded.
I would also take issue with 'unhappiness.' PTSD as a Chargers fan doesn't equate to being unhappy with the current team and its performance. It's more being apprehensive of waiting for the next rash of serious injuries, or the next rash of 'Chargering' away multiple games. I mean, look it up... Chargering is a thing.
Aside from that, there is no doubt the Chargers have a bright future right now. But we are 5 games into a new coaching regime that seems like a sea change. After 8 years of Anthony Lynn and Mike McCoy and 6 years of Norv Turner before that, it should be forgivable for Chargers fans to be cautious in their optimism. There is no need for anyone to be critical of that.
As for what teams have a brighter future than the Chargers, that is impossible to say. Contenders for that would seem to include the Bills, Chiefs, Browns, Cardinals, and Rams... maybe the Ravens, Patriots, and Cowboys. Also whatever team Russell Wilson is on next season. Keep in mind, some of these teams have paid their standout QB already, some (including the Chargers) have not.
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I’ve read a tiny bit of the thread. I think what your claiming is less about strawmen and more about eye rolling. Period.
I love these kinds of discussions with fans. Congratulations to your team.
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Gr00vus
Footballguy
I'm totally being greedy - unapologetically. They're performing beyond expectations (mine anyway) so far. Given that, there's an opportunity here to not just make the playoffs, but advance IF they're strong enough across the board. The complaint I'm making is that they had obvious glaring deficiencies heading into the roster assembly portion of the season, and failed to address some of them at all, some not to the fullest extent possible. There's no guarantee that the DLine would be better if they'd played 3rd round roulette with some DTs instead of using those picks on positions they didn't really need and on guys that were reaches as well - but at least they'd have more options. As @Just Win Baby mentioned they left cap space on the table too. That's the lament.
They do have a bright future, but with a little more front office acumen, the future could have been like right now. In the NFL you have to be prepared to take the opportunities when they're there. The future is never certain.
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Thanks Groovus. Same question - Right now today going forward, what NFL teams have a brighter future than the Chargers?
Thanks. I can see the others maybe but no way I’d consider Browns, Ravens and Patriots on the same level for bright future. And for sure, the fact you haven’t yet had to pay the QB is a huge reason for optimism.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
Haven't really thought about it. At this point, now that I'm out of ff, I really only know much about the chargers, I'm not paying much attention to other squads. I just know the weaknesses the chargers have now are chronic, spanning a decade. I think there's room for both optimism and criticism in relation to managements approach to the season.
Thanks. All comparison is relative so you have a pretty good understanding of the league.
What’s your best guess as to teams with a brighter future?
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Gr00vus
Footballguy
Maybe Bills, Chiefs, Cardinals, 49ers, cowboys,
. Right now the Ravens and buccaneers are better, probably the browns and the Rams too. These are not firm convictions though.
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