Where did they rank Forte and Langford last week? That'll tell you their ability to ready a coach's mind as far as timeshares.
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Charcandrick WEST - Should we be talking about this kid ? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Casting Couch
- Start date
SameSongNDance
Footballguy
KC has averaged 26.8 rush attempts per game on the season. Over the past 3 weeks they've averaged 30. A. Smith steals about 5 carries per game so I assume there's anywhere between 20-25 carries to divvy out to each per game. When West was healthy, he averaged 5 targets per game and anyone who watched them (West/Ware) both play would agree West is the superior pass catcher of the two. Going forward, I can see something like 10-15 carries and 5 targets for West, 10-15 carries for Ware with a non-zero chance of him monopolizing short-yardage/GL work. What that leaves us with is West being a RB2/flex in PPR and Ware being a TD dependent flex. Both sides get ####ed from a value perspective and those of us holding both have to assign legit roster space to a situation that won't be nearly as valuable as it has been in the past. Yay?
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I only have the pair in two dynasty leagues so with larger rosters I don't mind holding both. Since both rosters have been decimated with injuries to RBs I will need to start one each week most likely. Since it's ppr it will be West and I'm still inclined to think most weeks he'll be the more valuable option. Since he shown some big play capability there should still be some TDs sprinkled in even if he loses goal-line carries.
VaTerp
Footballguy
Pretty much how I see it as well.
FWIW I own West in 1 league and Ware in another. I have much more RB depth in the league with Ware though so I'm all for West being the more productive of the 2.
As of today I'd prefer West in PPR leagues and maybe Ware in standard. I don't play in standard leagues though so IDK.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
I don't own either but I would much rather have West than Ware. I am impressed with what Ware accomplished but I think West is more dynamic and fits the offense better than Ware does. The coach seemed to think so prior to West's hamstring injury and I doubt he has changed his mind about that.
There were a lot of wasted posts about ypc in this thread like that matters at all with such a small sample size. Some of you have been around here long enough that you should know better. Your posts demonstrate that you don't.
There were a lot of wasted posts about ypc in this thread like that matters at all with such a small sample size. Some of you have been around here long enough that you should know better. Your posts demonstrate that you don't.
amnesiac
beer is good
i honestly haven't been following that situation at all, but I'd be happy to look up the information if this is not a rhetorical question.
I strongly disagree. Yes, it's a small sample size. But having the ability to break 52 and 36 yard runs in that limited amount of carries, is something coaches notice. As is his efficiency around the goal line.
As for the first part of your post, I tend to agree with you. If I could own just one, I'd lean towards West.
I honestly don't know. Go ahead and look it up. It's a very similar situation. Last week was Forte's first game back and he was the iron clad starter when he got hurt. It ended up being nearly a 50/50 split, with Langford having the better fantasy numbers.
Milkman
Footballguy
Lol welp it looks like my prediction of a RBBC was accurate. Now let's see if Ware keeps out playing West. I think he will.Andy Reid chose West originally based on training camp, practices, scheme fit, etc, - While I'm sure he was impressed by Ware (who ran very hard) do you really think he's going to doubt his original assessment based on a game and a half of Ware - especially when West performed very well during his stint as the starter?Again if West looked like Ware and put those numbers up I'd say start West. There will be some kind of split at first and then if what's already happened in the past is any indication of future production Ware is going to carve out the more valuable FF role moving forward.no kidding.
I own both and will (semi) confidently start West, because all logic dictates that he'll get his job back. Ware played very well, but you are making him out to be more that he was/is. He's a RB/FB tweener that did what he needed to do when called upon.
Milkman
Footballguy
Lol welp it looks like my prediction of a RBBC was accurate. Now let's see if Ware keeps out playing West. I think he will.Andy Reid chose West originally based on training camp, practices, scheme fit, etc, - While I'm sure he was impressed by Ware (who ran very hard) do you really think he's going to doubt his original assessment based on a game and a half of Ware - especially when West performed very well during his stint as the starter?Again if West looked like Ware and put those numbers up I'd say start West. There will be some kind of split at first and then if what's already happened in the past is any indication of future production Ware is going to carve out the more valuable FF role moving forward.
I own both and will (semi) confidently start West, because all logic dictates that he'll get his job back. Ware played very well, but you are making him out to be more that he was/is. He's a RB/FB tweener that did what he needed to do when called upon.
Milkman
Footballguy
Lol welp it looks like a RBBC. Lol @ you.thanks coach. Because ypc in a very limited sample set is the only determinant for assigning RB duties. Good call.
Milkman
Footballguy
If they both played a full season with that kind of volume only one of them has much of a chance of finishing the season and it's not West.That's what is really shocking to me, assuming the people on these boards are football fans, that anyone actually thinks an NFL head coach is going to look at ypc averages for two backs who have less than 50 carries on the season (and who faced different teams) and make any assessment based on that - all while throwing away what was achieved in the passing game.
I'll stand by what I said earlier - if both backs played a full NFL season, with feature back carries, my guess is their ypc would end up being very close at the end of the season. But even without that, NFL coaches aren't all that hung up on ypc numbers anyway - there's just too many variables and other assignments that go into the game.
I have no dog in this fight, but based on what? West's size? That doesn't = durability. And he certainly doesn't have a college resume to support that assumption either. I think this is a rather silly comment to be honest.If they both played a full season with that kind of volume only one of them has much of a chance of finishing the season and it's not West.That's what is really shocking to me, assuming the people on these boards are football fans, that anyone actually thinks an NFL head coach is going to look at ypc averages for two backs who have less than 50 carries on the season (and who faced different teams) and make any assessment based on that - all while throwing away what was achieved in the passing game.
I'll stand by what I said earlier - if both backs played a full NFL season, with feature back carries, my guess is their ypc would end up being very close at the end of the season. But even without that, NFL coaches aren't all that hung up on ypc numbers anyway - there's just too many variables and other assignments that go into the game.
drfeelgood
Footballguy
Why is that? Bruising backs like Ware take on a lot of physical contact. Both backs are on the injury report right now. They both practiced in full, but both have "hamstring" listed beside their name.If they both played a full season with that kind of volume only one of them has much of a chance of finishing the season and it's not West.That's what is really shocking to me, assuming the people on these boards are football fans, that anyone actually thinks an NFL head coach is going to look at ypc averages for two backs who have less than 50 carries on the season (and who faced different teams) and make any assessment based on that - all while throwing away what was achieved in the passing game.
I'll stand by what I said earlier - if both backs played a full NFL season, with feature back carries, my guess is their ypc would end up being very close at the end of the season. But even without that, NFL coaches aren't all that hung up on ypc numbers anyway - there's just too many variables and other assignments that go into the game.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
They played already? Was there a Thursday afternoon game this week?Milkman said:Lol welp it looks like my prediction of a RBBC was accurate. Now let's see if Ware keeps out playing West. I think he will.Dr. Octopus said:Andy Reid chose West originally based on training camp, practices, scheme fit, etc, - While I'm sure he was impressed by Ware (who ran very hard) do you really think he's going to doubt his original assessment based on a game and a half of Ware - especially when West performed very well during his stint as the starter?Milkman said:Again if West looked like Ware and put those numbers up I'd say start West. There will be some kind of split at first and then if what's already happened in the past is any indication of future production Ware is going to carve out the more valuable FF role moving forward.thatguythere said:Milkman said:
I own both and will (semi) confidently start West, because all logic dictates that he'll get his job back. Ware played very well, but you are making him out to be more that he was/is. He's a RB/FB tweener that did what he needed to do when called upon.
Milkman
Footballguy
LOLThey played already? Was there a Thursday afternoon game this week?Milkman said:Lol welp it looks like my prediction of a RBBC was accurate. Now let's see if Ware keeps out playing West. I think he will.Dr. Octopus said:Andy Reid chose West originally based on training camp, practices, scheme fit, etc, - While I'm sure he was impressed by Ware (who ran very hard) do you really think he's going to doubt his original assessment based on a game and a half of Ware - especially when West performed very well during his stint as the starter?Milkman said:Again if West looked like Ware and put those numbers up I'd say start West. There will be some kind of split at first and then if what's already happened in the past is any indication of future production Ware is going to carve out the more valuable FF role moving forward.thatguythere said:Milkman said:
I own both and will (semi) confidently start West, because all logic dictates that he'll get his job back. Ware played very well, but you are making him out to be more that he was/is. He's a RB/FB tweener that did what he needed to do when called upon.
Insein
Footballguy
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
If they both played a full season with that kind of volume then they both played a full season and therefore had an equal chance of finishing the season.Milkman said:If they both played a full season with that kind of volume only one of them has much of a chance of finishing the season and it's not West.That's what is really shocking to me, assuming the people on these boards are football fans, that anyone actually thinks an NFL head coach is going to look at ypc averages for two backs who have less than 50 carries on the season (and who faced different teams) and make any assessment based on that - all while throwing away what was achieved in the passing game.
I'll stand by what I said earlier - if both backs played a full NFL season, with feature back carries, my guess is their ypc would end up being very close at the end of the season. But even without that, NFL coaches aren't all that hung up on ypc numbers anyway - there's just too many variables and other assignments that go into the game.
T J
Footballguy
Pssst.... I own Ware, but it was a tongue in cheek joke. The "ever" at the end was the tell. Never mind.
Didn't they say something similar to this about West/Davis when Charles got hurt?shady inc said:chiefs beat writer
45]
Herbie Teope@HerbieTeope
Chiefs OC Doug Pederson said the team has a running back by committee with a now-healthy Charcandruck West, Spencer Ware.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
If they both played a full season with that kind of volume then they both played a full season and therefore had an equal chance of finishing the season.Milkman said:If they both played a full season with that kind of volume only one of them has much of a chance of finishing the season and it's not West.That's what is really shocking to me, assuming the people on these boards are football fans, that anyone actually thinks an NFL head coach is going to look at ypc averages for two backs who have less than 50 carries on the season (and who faced different teams) and make any assessment based on that - all while throwing away what was achieved in the passing game.
I'll stand by what I said earlier - if both backs played a full NFL season, with feature back carries, my guess is their ypc would end up being very close at the end of the season. But even without that, NFL coaches aren't all that hung up on ypc numbers anyway - there's just too many variables and other assignments that go into the game.
Sir Psycho
Footballguy
Adam Levitan @adamlevitan 6m6 minutes ago
Chiefs OC Doug Pederson: It "goes without saying" they'll use a RBBC between Charcandrick and Spencer Ware. http://www.kansascity.com/sports/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs/article47762705.html …
Chiefs OC Doug Pederson: It "goes without saying" they'll use a RBBC between Charcandrick and Spencer Ware. http://www.kansascity.com/sports/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs/article47762705.html …
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
As some one else pointed out Reid said the same thing about West and Davis when Charles first went down. This is just "talk" right now. I'm not saying it's not going to happen, because Ware did show how valuable he can be on the field - and sure it's more concrete that just mere speculation - but it's still far from a given at this point.
I think most people figured both players were going to lose some fantasy value going forward based on the current situation. It's just now going to depend on what these guys do on the field going forward - big plays will be a must for big fantasy days most likely.
ETA (for shady): I own both in two dynasty leagues and just Ware in one - but my opinion/speculation is that West will see the bigger workload going forward - for reasons I've already laid out in this thread.
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KCBuc
Footballguy
I have both. I think the weather really helped Ware last week. Cold and rainy. This guy is made to run between the tackles.
I'm going to start West in a PPR this week and pray he is not laying on the ground after play #1. My fear is the is rushing back, but I have zero evidence on that.
I'm going to start West in a PPR this week and pray he is not laying on the ground after play #1. My fear is the is rushing back, but I have zero evidence on that.
Dizzy
Footballguy
![[icon]](/data/avatars/m/5/5167.jpg?1660313464){kind=avatar}
shady inc
Footballguy
SameSongNDance
Footballguy
Stating whether you own one or both really shouldn't be necessary, are people really that incapable of making an objective analysis of the situation? It's not like that bias is going to affect the outcome.
shady inc
Footballguy
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Biabreakable
Footballguy
I thought there were multiple posts that cherry picked statistics comparing the two players. This biased selection of stats was used to produce a narrative that was not really objective, fair or an appropriate use of those stats. Others have made claims about Ware somehow being better in cold weather due to being a larger player. This seems like a strange opinion but more than one poster seems to think there is something to this. Many people seem to have the point of view that the bigger the RB the better that player is. Size is an attribute as I have heard Cosell say. I don't really agree with that point of view, in fact I think being a shorter player is more of an advantage at the RB position than it is at other positions where greater size does contribute to how the player can win match ups.
I think the best thing is that the offense has been very successful running the ball. That tells me the offensive line which I think struggled some early on has been improving. The RB who gets the majority of the opportunity should do well. If the RBBC split is 50/50 it would somewhat kill both players upside, similar to Hill and Bernard do. West being the preferred receiver gets the higher quality opportunities to gain raw yardage. If your league is PPR it even further compounds this effect, but even in standard scoring I would expect West to gain more yards than Ware based on the type of opportunities I see them getting if they did split snaps pretty evenly.
I was comparing Jermemy Hill and Charcandrick West earlier on this season. Ware split time with Hill at LSU and I can see him as a comparatively talented RB to Hill. I still think West is the player I would prefer to have for FF and the actions of the coaches suggest pretty strongly that they prefer West as well.
That all of these players can put up such good numbers shows how effective the offense is running the ball and how close in talent level back up players are to other starters. It wouldn't surprise me to see Knile Davis to have a 100 yard game if these other two RB were not available.
texansfan80
Footballguy
Dear Shark Pool members,
If you are spending time giving us your personal opinion via through 4 paragraphs of analysis please spend your life doing other things. We don't care. We just want actual updates. Not well based on what coach bob said I thing he meant this and the split will really be 70/30. lol
Please stop. Get a life. This is my rant. Carry on.
If you are spending time giving us your personal opinion via through 4 paragraphs of analysis please spend your life doing other things. We don't care. We just want actual updates. Not well based on what coach bob said I thing he meant this and the split will really be 70/30. lol
Please stop. Get a life. This is my rant. Carry on.
Ladsud
Footballguy
Ill keep it simple then, Im flipping a quarter, I might flip again if it doesnt land on West the first time.
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
Thanks for wasting all of our time with your reply. And it was so relevant to the situation.
If you want facts about upcoming usage, then no one else should be posting in this thread until about 10 minutes into the game on Sunday. We are here to share opinions. You don't like that? Stay out of the thread. Simple.
ClownCausedChaos2
Footballguy
Um, sharing opinions and analysis is kinda the entire point of the Shark Pool.
Oh, and lol.
based on posting immediately after him and the '4 paragraphs' statement, I'm going to assume you're talking about Biabreakable. Let me just start by saying that he is an awesome and informative poster. His all-22 breakdowns are one of the reasons I come here. And considering I've never seen or remembered one single post of yours, I'm confident in saying no one would miss you if you left today. So instead of attacking members that have 10x your football knowledge, try making a contribution to the board. Or, find a different one to troll.
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texansfan80
Footballguy
sho nuff
Footballguy
Own West...dint trust it right now but all this per carry talk on what is still a limited sample size for both is ridiculous.
West shows he can catch...but sucked for West owners that Ware ran so strong.
Hoping it sorts out a bit this weekend as i dont need the win this week.
West shows he can catch...but sucked for West owners that Ware ran so strong.
Hoping it sorts out a bit this weekend as i dont need the win this week.
thatguythere
Footballguy
Own both playing west.
salmonstud
Footballguy
Playing D.Murray & J.Hill over West this week.
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
[Disclaimer: Own ware and west in one league. Do not own in either in 2 others.]Own both and they will both be on the bench
Thinking that myself in a must-win game.
[LBL]
