Bears_Man2
Footballguy
Have a draft this Saturday. I pray he drops after 2nite 
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Bush owners, will you sleep okay tonight? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter PantherPower
- Start date
you should score if your league reacts like a lot people are in here. last year at Indy, the Bengals played a similar game. Totally just stunk up the joint and looked like an expansion team. so does that mean Palmer, Ocho Cinco, Housh, Rudi and the boys all suck? Of course not. When a team like Indy gets rolling at home, they're tough to beat. The Saints were never in this game for whatever reason, but if people think this performance will be the norm for the team that led the NFL in offense last year, they're on crack. The bad performance was compounded that this was opening game and the only game on. If this happened in week 3, I don't think it gets blown up like it is now. I'd rather my guys stumble early and finish strong. I'd target all panicky Saints player owners if given the chance.Have a draft this Saturday. I pray he drops after 2nite
lawrence phillips
Footballguy
All that said, Bush looked timid and impatient with the ball in his hands tonight. I think we'll see much better performances out of Reggie this year, but we might see a few more similar ones too.
I am a Bush owner in a PPR league, and while this game was not encouraging, it just shows what momentum and superior coaching can do during the course of ONE QUARTER. The Colts were a team possessed in the 3rd quarter and played like champions.
1) Are the Saints as good as the Colts, no. Dungy made adjustments during halftime that totally threw the Saints offense for a loop. The Saints looked terrible during the 3rd quarter, but up til that point were very competitive.
2) Am I concerned about Johnson taking away receptions from Bush? Frankly no, I don't expect that Brees will be caught like a deer in headlights against too many more teams this year and needing the dumpoff to the TE. He is not a rookie QB. The goal is to get the ball in the hands of the playmaker as frequently as possible, in this offense that is Bush.
With all that being said, Bush in a non-PPR league is going to be way too streaky to be the RB1 of a good FF team. I think that his 70-80 receptions will make him a passable RB2 in a PPR.
1) Are the Saints as good as the Colts, no. Dungy made adjustments during halftime that totally threw the Saints offense for a loop. The Saints looked terrible during the 3rd quarter, but up til that point were very competitive.
2) Am I concerned about Johnson taking away receptions from Bush? Frankly no, I don't expect that Brees will be caught like a deer in headlights against too many more teams this year and needing the dumpoff to the TE. He is not a rookie QB. The goal is to get the ball in the hands of the playmaker as frequently as possible, in this offense that is Bush.
With all that being said, Bush in a non-PPR league is going to be way too streaky to be the RB1 of a good FF team. I think that his 70-80 receptions will make him a passable RB2 in a PPR.
Keys Myaths
Pokerguy
Oh, man.Come on, guys. He was top ten last year in PPR, and he only had 1300 TOTAL yards. That's nothing.For Bush to be an RB2 with 80 receptions, he'd have to go for about 800 yards and 2 touchdowns. Anyone who really believes that is fooling themselves. Panic all you want, PPR owners. Let other people win your league.In one league w/ .5 per reception and only 1 pt/20 yds, he still got me 5 points
a 100yd/1td day from Rudi Johnson (or insert any back who doesn't get much passing game love) in this league is only 11 points.
not panicked yet but he does look awfully easy to tackle (bring down with minimal contact)
a 100yd/1td day from Rudi Johnson (or insert any back who doesn't get much passing game love) in this league is only 11 points.
not panicked yet but he does look awfully easy to tackle (bring down with minimal contact)
Deuce'sWild
Footballguy
Manning and Wayne owner here...slept like baby.
Keys Myaths
Pokerguy
Thanks for the update.Manning and Wayne owner here...slept like baby.
Trap Play
Footballguy
CBS Sportsline rips Bush a new one:
http://cbs.sportsline.com/nfl/story/10337299
Damn keepers and PPR league made Bush the most attractive option in the first round of all three of my leagues this season. I'm resisting the temptation to panic, but I'm taking a hard look at my RB depth and the waiver wire for the next few weeks.
http://cbs.sportsline.com/nfl/story/10337299
Damn keepers and PPR league made Bush the most attractive option in the first round of all three of my leagues this season. I'm resisting the temptation to panic, but I'm taking a hard look at my RB depth and the waiver wire for the next few weeks.
Pocket Joker
Footballguy
He never was a #1 Fantasy RB --- he was always a RB2 with upside --- he was overvalued in every league I'm in.
Liquid Tension
Footballguy
First, Is it time to panic...no!
You can see Reggie's talents, but he was awful yesterday. The reason that Eric J was Brees' safety valve was because Bush dropped a few passes and made the minimum out of what was given him. he showed terrible vision and never went forward with authority. One one screen with about 10 yards to go for the 1st down, Bush had 2 or 3 blockers ahead of him and not one Indy defender was even on the screen and Reggie just waited to be tackled and didn't even get teh 1st down. I have him in 2 leagues and he was awful tonight; he had opportunities and he did nothing with them.
I think it was an aberration though and he will get his act together. Whether he takes the next step compared to last year is unknown, but not encoraging either.
You can see Reggie's talents, but he was awful yesterday. The reason that Eric J was Brees' safety valve was because Bush dropped a few passes and made the minimum out of what was given him. he showed terrible vision and never went forward with authority. One one screen with about 10 yards to go for the 1st down, Bush had 2 or 3 blockers ahead of him and not one Indy defender was even on the screen and Reggie just waited to be tackled and didn't even get teh 1st down. I have him in 2 leagues and he was awful tonight; he had opportunities and he did nothing with them.
I think it was an aberration though and he will get his act together. Whether he takes the next step compared to last year is unknown, but not encoraging either.
bcr8f
Footballguy
What great RB did you give up drafting Peyton? I wouldn't be surprised to see C Palmer outscore him by the end of the year(like he did 2 years ago).Manning and Wayne owner here...slept like baby.
I noticed that too, particularly late - he ran to darkness. The biggest thing that concerned me though was that he seemed to have attended the Jamal Lewis School of Gridiron Dance in the offseason. He was constantly moving his feet without actually going anywhere. #94 (who I was relieved to discover was a linebacker) caught him from behind right past the line of scrimmage on one play in particular - they had momentary contain on him, but Reggie waited so long in the hole that 94 was able to turn himself completely around & make the play. Bush is much better than he showed last night, unless some of these issues become habits. His first punt return, his catches on third down - he didn't go forward, which, as it turns out, is the point of the game.It is only one game, but the halftime score shouldn't fool anyone. The Saint offense was not competitive all night. The folks who should really worry are the Henderson owners. His catch was garbage time, and during the last 6-8 minutes of the game, it was the Johnson/Patton show. Henderson had only two targets in the last 10 minutes, I believe (I was counting manually, so I might have missed one). It's only one game. But it was an ugly game. Johnson is doing exactly what was expected, and will until the rest of what Johnson is expected to do happens (crrraaacck).A guy in our league - last year's champ - has Brees, Bush, and Colston. I think he's probably having a bad day. On the other hand, I have their special teams, and they did a very nice job punting the ball and returning punts (after Reggie stopped getting put back there).
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Yes, some are overreacting to just one game, but let's face it, you want your first round pick in FF to be a stud who is consistent nearly week in and week out. A guy like Bush is too much boom or bust. Sure, he will win you games when he has huge weeks, but when he has those bust weeks, your team will suffer. In other words, having him as your number one pick makes the chances of you having an average team a lot more likely, unless you draft extremely well in the middle rounds, where most leagues are won.
Keys Myaths
Pokerguy
Except for PPR leagues...well, as long ago as last year.
Marc Levin
Hangs out with Oscar Zeta Acosta
Like, before a lot of drafts.And I am 100 percent in agreement on (a). The Saints O is for real, esp. when the OL realizes the preseason is over. The problems last night are three-fold (IMO) - 1. the Colts D was for real last night and IS for real whenever Bob Sanders is in the game. 2. Offenses can take a little time to gel in the early weeks and the Saints (especially Brees and the OL) looked very rusty. 3. the Colts O is sooooo good, the Saints were forced, early in the second half, to abandon their best game plan (which is a healthy dose of Bush and McAllister and high percentage shots downfield)
Now, how this relates to Bush
I have him in a league that rewards return yardage, so I think I will be fine there. But, in my normal PPR league where I have him, I am a little worried that McAllister's role has not been reduced one iota.
Marc Levin
Hangs out with Oscar Zeta Acosta
Exactly - in a non-PPR league (I have only one of those this year), Bush drops to RB 12/13 on my board.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Nor should it be reduced. McAllister is still the far superior running RB. That is where the Saints coaching staff screwed themselves last night. McAllister looked good running the ball, but they kept trying to force Bush the ball, even though he was doing nothing with it.
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Marc Levin
Hangs out with Oscar Zeta Acosta
In the second half, it looked like Deuce was the primary running RB and Bush was the primary receiving RB.And Stecker was the best of the three.
(ETA - I agree they force fed Bush the ball in the first half)
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Dancing Bear
Footballguy
Reggie may in fact turn things around, but ...
If you look at the history of him playing against any sort of Defense, this is truly indicative of his performance.
He is barely a 3.0 ypr RB ...
He finished with 16 touches for 45 yards, but he had 5 touches for 18 yards in garbage time after Indy had sealed the Saints coffin in the 4th Q. Otherwise his performance was 11 touches for 27 yards ... significantly less than 3.0 ypt!
Of course his value does depend upon where you can or have drafted him and on your leagues scoring system.
But I frankly am SICK of the commercial hype train which is SHOVING him down our throats. Let's be real, everywhere you turn they were pimping Peyton Manning against "Reggie" and the Saints ... Make me gag.
He has not matured as a human or a football player yet. He made several blatant mistakes in each pre-season games and he looked absolutely awful last night. "The game is slowing down for me" ... Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah ...
If you look at the history of him playing against any sort of Defense, this is truly indicative of his performance.
He is barely a 3.0 ypr RB ...
He finished with 16 touches for 45 yards, but he had 5 touches for 18 yards in garbage time after Indy had sealed the Saints coffin in the 4th Q. Otherwise his performance was 11 touches for 27 yards ... significantly less than 3.0 ypt!
Of course his value does depend upon where you can or have drafted him and on your leagues scoring system.
But I frankly am SICK of the commercial hype train which is SHOVING him down our throats. Let's be real, everywhere you turn they were pimping Peyton Manning against "Reggie" and the Saints ... Make me gag.
He has not matured as a human or a football player yet. He made several blatant mistakes in each pre-season games and he looked absolutely awful last night. "The game is slowing down for me" ... Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah ...
Keys Myaths
Pokerguy
6 yards is "significantly"?I understand the concern, I do. I'm not a Bush owner, but I'd be worried if I was one.But Jesus, the rhetoric and false information thrown around in here is bordering on insane.
Deuce'sWild
Footballguy
Passed on Westbrook, Addai and Parker.I ended up with Henry (2nd), McAllister (6thWhat great RB did you give up drafting Peyton? I wouldn't be surprised to see C Palmer outscore him by the end of the year(like he did 2 years ago).Manning and Wayne owner here...slept like baby.
), Jacobs (3rd), and A. Green (8th 
).
Dancing Bear
Footballguy
Actually if you read my statement I said significantly less than 3.0 yards per touch.Well, 27 yards divided by 11 touches is 2.45 yards per touch. 2.45 yards per touch is significantly less than 3.0 yards per touch. There is no rhetoric and certainly no false information in this statement.
Keys Myaths
Pokerguy
Yes, there is. You're misusing statistics.2.45 is a lot less than 3.0 when you're talking about a significant amount of carries.When you're talking about eleven carries, it's a difference of six yards. .55 yards is statistically meaningless when you're talking about a sample size of 11.
Oh, man.Come on, guys. He was top ten last year in PPR, and he only had 1300 TOTAL yards. That's nothing.For Bush to be an RB2 with 80 receptions, he'd have to go for about 800 yards and 2 touchdowns. Anyone who really believes that is fooling themselves. Panic all you want, PPR owners. Let other people win your league.
Hey, I was extremely disappointed. I have Colston and Bush in one league so I am not looking great this week. Oh well, the Colts #####-slapped the Saints last night.To those that are worried about E. Johnson, I wouldn't be yet. The reason he caught so many balls was not in place of Bush, it was in place of the WRs. Brees looked atrocious last night. Every ball he threw more than 10 yards looked like it was going to get picked off. He looked like a deer in the headlights and never took any shots downfield because he almost got picked off 4 or 5 times. If it weren't for the last pass to Henderson, Brees would have set the record for worst yards per completion in a game in NFL HISTORY. If you can't say that Brees was the problem after that then I don't know what to say.By the way, I hope everyone realizes that 5 of Jonhson's 8 receptions came in the 4th quarter with NO already down 17, 3 of those 5 were on one drive after they went down by 24. Brees should have been airing it out at that point, but he seem so scared to do so that he was willing to take 5 yard gains instead of actually trying to win.I can't say I am super excited about owning Bush now, but I am in all PPR leagues, so I still think he will be top 10 at the end of the year. He wasn't the problem in my eyes, sure he didn't play great, but when a smallish LB can blow up an offensive lineman into you, that is pretty sad. He had the patience to wait and his blocker got smoked.One more note, Bush did have 12 rushes, which would be 192 for the year, which is more than his 155 last year. Also, 4 receptions is 64 for the year. Just one more catch, like one of the couple he dropped, and that is 80 for the year, which is about what he had last year. So, even in one of the ugliest performances I have ever seen by a QB, Bush still had more touches (16) than he averaged last year (15.1) when he was the #9 RB in PPR. So, yes, I would say there is a lot of overreacting.
TheDirtyWord
Footballguy
He's going to be the antithesis of Rudi Johnson. Whereas a guy like Rudi is fairly consistent week to week, he's not going to give you many spectacular efforts. He'll stay within a smaller percentage of his average most weeks.
Bush on the other hand is going to be a feast or famine type of player largely because he relies on this receiving totals to bolster his numbers so much. if the passing game is clicking, he'll be able to produce.
That said, they'll probably wind up with the approximately the same amount of points but do it in completely different ways.
Bush on the other hand is going to be a feast or famine type of player largely because he relies on this receiving totals to bolster his numbers so much. if the passing game is clicking, he'll be able to produce.
That said, they'll probably wind up with the approximately the same amount of points but do it in completely different ways.
Especially when you take away 5 touches, i.e. almost 50% of the sample used. Throw those in and basically he had about 3 yards per touch.Who cares anyway about the yards per touch that Bush had? The whole team #### the bed. McAllister was 12 for 45 or 3.75 ypt. Colston and Johnson, who had the bulk of the receptions averaged 7.4 ypt and that was all receptions, including most of them when down in the 4th Quarter by 17+ points. That is ridiculous. I was looking forward to Colston garbage time and while he ended up with 6 receptions which made his performance OK in PPR when you have no TDs, how can Brees not even try more downfield passes? Brees averaged 6.9 yards per completion. Take away that one 23 yarder to Henderson and it was 6.25. That is record breakingly bad.I have seen horrible QB performances before, but honestly, that has to be the worst game in NFL history by a QB who also completes more than 68% of his passes. If you want to extrapolate that game for the next 15, be my guest, but I have a feeling that you will be wrong.
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Sleeper 43
Footballguy
Bush will be ok. I think its actually good they got whooped the 1st week against the best., now they can set the bar for what level of play the need to achieve from here on out.
The 1st half the Saints D looked good. I think the Saints couldn't answer the half time adjustments. Regarding the Indy D , as long as B. Sanders is healthy they will be above average.
The 1st half the Saints D looked good. I think the Saints couldn't answer the half time adjustments. Regarding the Indy D , as long as B. Sanders is healthy they will be above average.
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This is kind of true and false. Depends upon which league you are in. I drafted Bush in the 1st round in one PPR league, but take that with a grain of salt as I kept 8 players myself so a lot of good players (S. Jackson, Parker, Addai, etc.) were unavailable. I wouldn't have taken him anywhere near there in a non-PPR league.In PPR leagues, Rudi's best year was 2005 with 250 points. Last year in his rookie year, splitting time with McAllister, Bush had 266 points. You can say Rudi is consistent, but in Bush's worst 10 games last year (under 10 points in FBGs scoring), he had 49 receptions. Well in PPR, that is almost an extra TD per game for Bush. That makes him pretty darn consistent in PPR leagues. Sure he had that one SF game, but Rudi also had 2 great games which were about double his average. RBs will usually have 1 or 2 outstanding games. It happens.
switz
Footballguy
That's the word I was thinking of. He looked very impatient, and even frustrated. Did you see him after each carry? It was like he just kept getting more and more down on himself for not breaking the play. If he learns to be patient, like he started to last season, he's going to be excellent. But he neess to remember in the NFL, you're not going to break every play wide open, there is too much speed, technique, and intelligence on defense.
LILB811
Footballguy
As a Bush owner, I am probably most concerned about the fact that the O-Line got completely manhandled. They were getting pushed backwards on run blocking and blown by on pass blocking. Bush obviously tried to do too much with the ball last night, but I'm sure he will make adjustments and be closer to the RB many people expected coming into the season.
If the situation were reversed on the Colts end, would people be jumping ship on Addai, Wayne, and even Manning?? It's not time to pull the alarm yet, but if by the bye week not much has changed, that's when I'd start to get concerned.
If the situation were reversed on the Colts end, would people be jumping ship on Addai, Wayne, and even Manning?? It's not time to pull the alarm yet, but if by the bye week not much has changed, that's when I'd start to get concerned.
TheDirtyWord
Footballguy
True, I was viewing it from a non-PPR perspective.
Norwood...Wide Right!
Footballguy
PantherPower
Footballguy
Well as usual, people went to extremes here. Bush in PPR leagues is still a very valuable player to have. But i did expect to see signs of improvement from last year (as far as between the tackles) and hoped that he wouldn't have gone down so easily. Am i going to trade him in any of my 5 leagues? Hell no, not unless someone is offered Jackson or LT. The entire team was in a funk, and the Colts were on fire. I just hope next week Bush shows better vision, patience, and toughness when he gets that first contact.
(HULK)
(Smash)
Just emailed to every Bush owner in every league I'm in.I thought Bush was over-valued a little bit (probably worthy of a 2nd round selection) so I didn't get him in any leagues. Now it is time to rub some salt in some wounds and make the weak stomached panic.CBS Sportsline rips Bush a new one:
http://cbs.sportsline.com/nfl/story/10337299
Damn keepers and PPR league made Bush the most attractive option in the first round of all three of my leagues this season. I'm resisting the temptation to panic, but I'm taking a hard look at my RB depth and the waiver wire for the next few weeks.
Keys Myaths
Pokerguy
I'm in 5 CBS leagues, so I just posted it as the front page story in each league.
(HULK)
(Smash)
It has been 8 months since I've been able to enjoy the small pleasures of fantasy football. I'm very pleased to get an early jump them this season with the "Friday Morning Make the Guy Who Reached for Bush Panic Move."
tombonneau
Footballguy
Considering that this was likely Bush's worst game of the year and he still netted me 6 pts, I slept just fine.
Pictus Cat
Footballguy
I own Bush in all my Non-Survivor leagues, but 1.
I just offered Brown, Chatman, and Ray Lewis for Bush in the one I don't have him.
Although nobody cares about my leagues, my actions may add my
I just offered Brown, Chatman, and Ray Lewis for Bush in the one I don't have him.
Although nobody cares about my leagues, my actions may add my
kensat30
Footballguy
Reggie Bush had a whole lot of "worst games of the year" last year, so I would be worried. Half his games were stinkers in 2006. And in '07 he's 0/1.
tombonneau
Footballguy
He started 06 off horrid. Once he adjusted to the game mid-season, he was very steady. Regardless, I'm still not worried.
Understand. That is why some of these discussions are silly. Look at kensat30's post above. In PPR leagues last year Bush had 266 points (#9) in his first year to McAllister's 216 points (#15). The rankings aren't much apart, but Bush had 23% more points, so that is why he is a 1st rounder in PPR leagues and McAllister is a 4th rounder. People are thinking Bush will improve and thus McAllister would go down a bit, makes sense to me since Bush was a rookie.It wouldn't surprise me if a lot of the bashing is by non-PPR folks and a lot of the support is by PPR folks (like me). Bush had an awful game as did all of NO, but the 4 receptions make it pathetic instead of horrible.
Talking about most RBs, the league rules usually aren't as big a factor, but for guys like Westbrook and Bush, they are two completely different discussions.It's a little odd that some are saying they need to use Deuce more and Bush less when they had almost the same statistics rushing the ball (and Deuce's long was 12 while Bush's was 9). The OL really hurt both of them last night. They both did about as well as they could have running the ball.However, Bush did some things that were not good last night. He caught a pass in the flat and all he needed to do was accelerate for the 1st down. Instead, he accelerated, then slowed and started dancing before getting tackled to bring up a 3rd and 1. He also dropped two passes.
On a positive note, the Saints gave Bush the ball three times on 3rd and 1 (although one of them was of Bush's own doing), and he converted on each of them.
It's also worth noting that Payton appears to be trying to get Bush the ball as much as possible, and Bush was on the field more this year than last year.
I've got Bush in a PPR league, and I'm not terribly worried, although I will be if Brees keeps playing this poorly and the O-line doesn't start to run block better.
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