Bitcoins - anyone else mining? (1 Viewer)

[SacramentoBob]

Getting intermittent connectivity to the site. They running on the Obamacare servers?

 

[[icon]]

Getting intermittent connectivity to the site. They running on the Obamacare servers?

Too many people logging in to cash out of the pyramid

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

Price is already back up into the $700 range.

Last:$581.95000

- Mt Gox

ftfy

 

[SacramentoBob]

Price is already back up into the $700 range.

Last:$581.95000

- Mt Gox

ftfy

So it's lower than 581?

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

Price is already back up into the $700 range.

Last:$581.95000

- Mt Gox

ftfy

So it's lower than 581?

So you have trouble reading tables?

24h Avg.

683.02

671.79

573.5424

761.8331

708.13

694.26

690.27

720.25

691.42

682.7331

700.97

690.141

Average: 689.0299667

 

[stbugs]

Bitcoin is crashing. The fact that there isn't a legit way to buy and sell bitcoins is what will do in this "currency"?

Hey, it's all transaction malleability these days. Do you need a refresher course?

Technical Explanation:Bitcoin transactions are subject to a design issue that has been largely ignored, while known to at least a part of the Bitcoin core developers and mentioned on the BitcoinTalk forums. This defect, known as "transaction malleability" makes it possible for a third party to alter the hash of any freshly issued transaction without invalidating the signature, hence resulting in a similar transaction under a different hash. Of course only one of the two transactions can be validated. However, if the party who altered the transaction is fast enough, for example with a direct connection to different mining pools, or has even a small amount of mining power, it can easily cause the transaction hash alteration to be committed to the blockchain.

Good to know that the "design" issue has largely been ignored so that someone can alter a transaction to look like it didn't happen and thus more bitcoins are resent. LOL, sorry man, the credit card didn't swipe, let's try it again and oh, by the way, there is nothing you can do about it after the fact.

Transaction malleability is nothing new, you act like you have a clue what you are talking about and then you copy and paste a statement from Mt.Gox which has recently been delisted by CoinDesk due to its persistent failure to meet the Index's standards for inclusion after they announced they are suspending withdrawals indefinitely. "Indefinitely" until they fix a flaw in their handling of unconfirmed transactions.

LOL, still an ### as always. Did you read this link before you responded? http://qz.com/175565/why-nobody-can-withdraw-bitcoins-from-one-of-the-currencys-largest-exchanges/ About halfway down is the title of a section "Transaction malleability is nothing new."Awesomeness, so to you this is no big deal? Wasn't Mt. Gox before 2014 the largest bitcoin exchange? So, if NASQDAQ or NYSE got shutdown and "delisted" from selling stocks, you wouldn't think that was a big deal? OK, have fun with that.

Also, why so angry? I was really just joking about transaction malleability with the Fletch quote at the top. I figured as the smartest human on the planet, you would have recognized that. Lighten up Francis. I am almost thinking that maybe you decided to finally dive into some bitcoins right before the crash. I know you would never admit to a gaff that bad, but damn that would be ironic and funny, well at least to some of us.

Don't drunk post, you are no good at it.

LOL, up late working. Just laughing at you.

That's even more embarrassing, I feel sorry for you.

Sweet, my work is done.

 

[Hipple II]

Price is already back up into the $700 range.

Last:$581.95000

- Mt Gox

ftfy

whoah. so just buy btc on mt gox at 550 and immediately sell it elsewhere for 700.

 

[Hipple II]

Price is already back up into the $700 range.

Last:$581.95000

- Mt Gox

ftfy

So it's lower than 581?

So you have trouble reading tables?24h Avg.

683.02

671.79

573.5424

761.8331

708.13

694.26

690.27

720.25

691.42

682.7331

700.97

690.141

Average: 689.0299667

why are people selling them at the place that apparently recently had all the problems and glitches, especially for 100 bucks less than everywhere else

 

[bagger]

Cuz math.

 

[chet]

Bitcoin slammed by JP Morgan

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

Bitcoin slammed by JP Morgan

He makes some fair points but he spends too much time comparing it to fiat currencies. Looks like he focuses only on the currency aspect and ignores the blockchain and other benefits it provides such as transparency and cost. He does mention blockchain once using two words instead of the one word in which it is commonly referenced.

 

[chet]

Bitcoin slammed by JP Morgan

He makes some fair points but he spends too much time comparing it to fiat currencies. Looks like he focuses only on the currency aspect and ignores the blockchain and other benefits it provides such as transparency and cost. He does mention blockchain once using two words instead of the one word in which it is commonly referenced.

To be fair, fiat is the main competitor to BC.

I didn't think the comparison to the Mauritius Stock Exchange fit.

 

[cstu]

Bitcoin slammed by JP Morgan

He makes some fair points but he spends too much time comparing it to fiat currencies. Looks like he focuses only on the currency aspect and ignores the blockchain and other benefits it provides such as transparency and cost. He does mention blockchain once using two words instead of the one word in which it is commonly referenced.

He also ignores you can buy drugs with it.

 

[chet]

Bitcoin slammed by JP Morgan

He makes some fair points but he spends too much time comparing it to fiat currencies. Looks like he focuses only on the currency aspect and ignores the blockchain and other benefits it provides such as transparency and cost. He does mention blockchain once using two words instead of the one word in which it is commonly referenced.

He also ignores you can buy drugs with it.

No he doesn't. Page 2 references criminals.

 

[[icon]]

He makes some fair points but ...He does mention blockchain once using two words instead of the one word in which it is commonly referenced.

 

[[icon]]

Seems Legit Let's get behind this plan...

Bitcoin down another 50 points on the news

Silk Road 2 Hacked, Over 4,000 Bitcoin Allegedly Stolen

Posted 1 hour agoSilk Road 2 moderator Defcon reported in a forum post that hackers have used atransaction malleability exploit to hack the marketplace. The hackers stole over 88,0004474.26 bitcoins worth $2,747,000, emptying the site’s escrow account.

UPDATE – Fixed estimate.

The site used a central escrow service to send bitcoins from buyers to sellers. The hackers exploited the transaction malleability bug – essentially a way users can mask transfers and ask for the same amount of BTC multiple times – to clean out this wallet. This is the same bug that forced Mt. Gox to halt all withdrawals and recent updates have made average bitcoin wallets secure against this sort of attack. According to the site, hackers used the Silk Road’s automatic transaction verification system to order from each other and then request refunds for unshipped goods. Hackers were able to use the transaction malleability bug because the Silk Road used only transaction ID to confirm the transfer of bitcoins. You can read more about the problem here.

They supposedly run an automated refund system for their vendors that relies on the TXID to verify transactions. Their claim is that six vendors colluded to exploit that system by ordering from one another and then submitting circular refund requests.

Defcon is calling on the hackers to return the bitcoin. “Given the right flavor of influence from our community, we can only hope that he will decide to return the coins with integrity as opposed to hiding like a coward,” the moderator wrote.

Good luck with that.

Best quote from the comments:

The biggest innovation of Bitcoin is the enabling of large-scale crime from the convenience of your laptop.

 

[DrJ]

Looks like jojo' going to be able to slam my prediction. I was far too generous in giving this until mid year before it tanks.

 

[DrJ]

If I have to make a prediction though, I'm going to call mid next year the spiral will begin. I suspect that the major holders outside of the 20 guys controlling it at this point are speculators as even few of the rabid bit coiners had the stomach to hang onto it much beyond the wild swings in the $100 area. Everyone kept asking themselves "how long can this really stay up" and most bailed on a good portion of their coins at that point. A lot might have even dumped them to "reinvest" in expensive mining equipment when they were way better off just holding onto their coins. So right now it's a bunch of speculators by and large. Question is how long are they going to be willing to lose / not make any money before they bail. The .com era took a bit, but things move faster today and there's a lot of other opportunities to move on to. So by mid next year things will have stagnated long enough and most bail. This creates a downward spiral that simply can't be stopped - there's no mining calculator that will show a profit to be made, and it all dies by late next year. Probably drops to about $30-50 which is really its present day value. If it can even stay at that, since it costs way too much electricity to generate at that price.

 

[DrJ]

Seems Legit Let's get behind this plan...

Bitcoin down another 50 points on the news

Silk Road 2 Hacked, Over 4,000 Bitcoin Allegedly Stolen

Posted

1 hour ago

Silk Road 2 moderator Defcon reported in a forum post that hackers have used atransaction malleability exploit to hack the marketplace. The hackers stole over 88,0004474.26 bitcoins worth $2,747,000, emptying the site’s escrow account.

UPDATE – Fixed estimate.

The site used a central escrow service to send bitcoins from buyers to sellers. The hackers exploited the transaction malleability bug – essentially a way users can mask transfers and ask for the same amount of BTC multiple times – to clean out this wallet. This is the same bug that forced Mt. Gox to halt all withdrawals and recent updates have made average bitcoin wallets secure against this sort of attack. According to the site, hackers used the Silk Road’s automatic transaction verification system to order from each other and then request refunds for unshipped goods. Hackers were able to use the transaction malleability bug because the Silk Road used only transaction ID to confirm the transfer of bitcoins. You can read more about the problem here.

They supposedly run an automated refund system for their vendors that relies on the TXID to verify transactions. Their claim is that six vendors colluded to exploit that system by ordering from one another and then submitting circular refund requests.

Defcon is calling on the hackers to return the bitcoin. “Given the right flavor of influence from our community, we can only hope that he will decide to return the coins with integrity as opposed to hiding like a coward,” the moderator wrote.

Good luck with that.

Best quote from the comments:

The biggest innovation of Bitcoin is the enabling of large-scale crime from the convenience of your laptop.

Wait, there's gaping holes in the technology that still haven't been addressed? Strange, because jojo assured me that these sorts of issues and the scalability issues that prevent it from actually being used as currency on even a small scale had been dealt with.

 

[DrJ]

$582... Wondering how far it needs to tank before the 20 bitcoin moguls would be willing to try and catch the knife. You'd have to think they start buying them back like mad once it gets to say...$100.

Despite what jojo would seem to suggest, the number of transactions is actually dropping. https://blockchain.info/charts/estimated-transaction-volume

The transaction vs trade ratio (one component of the "speculation index") doesn't look favorable either - people are just trading these on exchanges like Chet because of "arbitrage opportunities" and crap. It isn't people actually using these as currency - some vendor decides they take payment it bitcoins, a bunch of people buy something for a day or two but then stop because they never shopped there before and the novelty of spending a bitcoin is only worth so much. So it still appears the true value, if measured by its demonstrated utility as a currency is probably still closer to the $30-$50 range. https://blockchain.info/charts/tx-trade-ratio

Basically just another avenue for the 20 bitcoin moguls and people with money to make boatloads ripping other people off. And to buy drugs - one of the actually redeeming qualities that normal people don't like.

 

[Politician Spock]

$582... Wondering how far it needs to tank before the 20 bitcoin moguls would be willing to try and catch the knife. You'd have to think they start buying them back like mad once it gets to say...$100.

Wait, wait, wait.... you mean to tell me my tulips aren't worth a week's wages?

[/1637 flashback]

 

[Osaurus]

A news reporter last night indicated how she purchased a fraction of 1 bitcoin and then showed the pizza she bought with it.....progress

 

[SacramentoBob]

Price is already back up into the $700 range.

Last:$581.95000

- Mt Gox

ftfy

All the charts being red is good, right?

 

[[icon]]

Seems like a good place to drop some Otis Bait while staying on topic...

 

[lod01]

How are those BitTurd mines going these days? Who's a millionaire BitTurd owner?

 

[Phil Elliott]

Bitcoin ATMs coming to a location near you...at least in Austin and Seattle.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/18/us-bitcoin-robocoin-idUSBREA1H05F20140218

Robocoin said on Tuesday that later this month it will install the first automated teller machines in the United States that let users buy and sell bitcoin, the latest step into the mainstream for the digital currency.

The kiosks, to be installed in Seattle, and Austin, Texas, are similar to ATMs but have scanners to read government-issued identification such as a driver's license or a passport to confirm users' identities.

The ATMs will allow people to swap bitcoin for cash, or deposit cash to buy more bitcoin by transferring funds to or from a virtual wallet on their smartphones.

Bitcoin was launched in 2008 and is traded within a global network of computers. It is not backed by a single company or government and has no assets behind it, but its release is tightly controlled, mimicking a central banking system's control over the minting of money.

Robocoin, based in Las Vegas, installed its first bitcoin ATM in Vancouver last fall and will also start operating one in Calgary, Alberta, later this month. Robocoin also is planning to install ATMs in Asia and Europe.

A bitcoin is currently worth about $636, but its value has fluctuated widely as the currency's visibility has increased. Last September, a bitcoin was worth around $150. By late December the value was near the $1,000 mark.

Users can buy products and services online on sites including Overstock.com or in a handful of stores.

The currency's reputation took a hit last week when two of its best known exchanges suspended withdrawals. One of them, Slovenia-based Bitstamp, said Friday it planned to allow redemptions to resume.

 

[SacramentoBob]

Mt Gox down to $227.

 

[Sarnoff]

Mt Gox down to $227.

If it dips much lower, we should all chip in to give JoJo his first bitcoin as his prize.

 

[culdeus]

Mt Gox down to $227.

That doesn't really matter.

Mt Gox down to $227.

If it dips much lower, we should all chip in to give JoJo his first bitcoin as his prize.

I'm in for this.

 

[[icon]]

Mt Gox down to $227.

That doesn't really matter.

Mt Gox down to $227.

If it dips much lower, we should all chip in to give JoJo his first bitcoin as his prize.

I'm in for this.

 

[Loan Sharks]

I bet those guys who stole 2.7 million in bitycoins were pissed when they found out they really only stole like 50 dollars.

 

[Maelstrom]

So Dogecoin is only 75 days old. Didn't realize that the currency that has moved to be #3 in market cap (among crypto-currencies) was that "young". It was introduced Dec 6th, the sub-reddit formed on Dec 8th. They are already mentioned pretty much anytime alt-currencies are mentioned, and are starting to make press on their own outside of the Bitcoin press.

 

[Hipple II]

Mt Gox down to $227.

why is mt gox so consistently off the other markets this link shows 12 others still trading at 6-630. then one trading at 794.

makes no sense. eta this seems to be more an indication of people not trusting mt gox NOT bitcoin as is being portrayed in this thread.

http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/currency/USD.html

current btc avg on multiple others sites is 625. if you can buy them on mt gox for 227 its like printing money. something here is very wrong.

http://preev.com/

http://www.bitcoinexchangerate.org/

 

[Hipple II]

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1xt4iz/why_are_bitcoin_prices_so_low_on_mtgox/

Why are Bitcoin prices so low on MtGox? (self.Bitcoin)

submitted

5 days ago by knowmongerAre people that scared of this new transaction malleability bug? Is it that dangerous? Would I lose money if I buy new bitcoins from there?
[–]XtibiX 5 points

5 days agoValentine sale!
[–]contcont 2 points

5 days agoCash withdrawals take months and BTC withdrawals are being held (dunno if that's changed yet).

So basically, if you put money in don't expect to get anything out for a while.
[–]knowmonger[S] 0 points

5 days agoCrap. How's Bitstamp and BTC-e in this regard? Which is the safest places to buy nowadays (except LocalBitcoins)?
[–]Imaharak 1 point

5 days agoMtGox trades GoxBitcoins against GoxDollars.

The moment you move either bitcoins or dollars to mtgox you lose 20% of your value. Whether you lose more on bitcoins or on dollars determines whether the exchange rate shows a surplus or a deficit compared to other exchanges.
[–]FT_clox_metoo 1 point

5 days agoYes. People on MtGox dont trade Bitcoins but numbers on a screen. MtGox prices is so low because more and more people realised that there is no actual value backing MtGox. They are insolvent. If you deposit money in it you will never see it again.

Would I lose money if I buy new bitcoins from there?
[–]knowmonger[S] 1 point

5 days agoSo MtGox doesn't know where its money is? #### that's ####ed
[–]FT_clox_metoo 1 point

5 days ago *They know exactlywhere the money is. The problem is that on their exchange you never trade actual Bitcoin. You trade numbers. Only when you withdraw fiat/Bitcoin you will get something out of it. The problem is that MtGox owns far less Bitcoin than their customers 'own' on their exchange, so they cant pay out everyone and the run out of money sooner or later.
[–]albedosunrise 1 point

12 hours

ago

How do you know they are insolvent?

Transaction malleability was a real issue and a legitimate reason to suspend trading. Do you have anything more than conjecture to support this point?

(given how low prices are on Mt. Gox it's tempting to go there.)

 

[CBusAlex]

[–]FT_clox_metoo 1 point

5 days ago

Yes. People on MtGox dont trade Bitcoins but numbers on a screen. MtGox prices is so low because more and more people realised that there is no actual value backing MtGox.

Oh, the irony.

 

[lod01]

So are all the fools gold mines abandoned at this point in time?

 

[culdeus]

So are all the fools gold mines abandoned at this point in time?

The way I understand this new crisis is that the miners are ok. It's the people that buy coins on an exchange with no intention of ever using them, and then leaving them there so they could be traded quickly on speculation. Problem is Gox was/is undercaptialized based on either a hacker attack or because they simply were not holding enough USD to cash people out that wanted to go BTC to USD, therefore the price on gox is off a cliff. So if you are a miner you sell your coins to a different exchange and move on.

 

[culdeus]

Oh my.

 

[[icon]]

Trade with confidence on the world's largest Bitcoin exchange!

MtGox is the world's most established Bitcoin exchange. You can quickly and securely trade bitcoins with other people around the world with your local currency!

 

[culdeus]

I never really read the DrJ/Jojo back and forth, but did somewhere he put up the theory that Gox could go down if they weren't holding enough Fiat in an appreciating currency while getting redemptions in a declining currency? Because looking back on it I could see how you could have called this.

 

[bagger]

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2100100/mt-gox-bitcoin-price-falls-below-100.html

The phenomenon of forcing "escape buying" previously is pretty fascinating.

 

[stbugs]

Trade with confidence on the world's largest Bitcoin exchange!

MtGox is the world's most established Bitcoin exchange. You can quickly and securely trade bitcoins with other people around the world with your local currency!

Jojo: This is much ado about nothing, it is just Mt. Gox. Other exchanges are fine, this is no big deal.

I am pretty sure i posted a while back that the issues on Mt. Gox are pretty huge seeing as how it was the biggest exchange until all the issues. That is akin to the NYSE holding all stocks traded captive and not letting anyone get their money out. Sure, says the trader on Nasdaq, it's not a big deal, it is just the NYSE, nothing to see here at all.

 

[Maelstrom]

Meanwhile:

http://cryptologs.com/dogecoin-just-solved-a-problem-that-bitcoin-is-going-to-face/

DOGECOIN JUST SOLVED A PROBLEM THAT BITCOIN IS GOING TO FACE...

In a message on Github this weekend, Sydney-based co-creator Jackson Palmer announced the amount of Dogecoin would not be fixed, meaning it’s possible for an infinite amount of Dogecoin to be created. (This was first spotted by Ars Technica’s Cyrus Favriar). Every new “block” of Dogecoin that gets mined will yield 10,000 units of the currency.

“This will help maintain mining and stabilize the number of coins in circulation (considering lost wallets and various other ways coins may be destroyed) at 100 billion,” Palmer wrote.

This is close to how a normal fiat currency like the U.S. dollar works. Like the greenback, Dogecoin will now better be able to respond to increasing demand, as well as potential damages like those outlined by Palmer. It also gives incentives for miners to keep operating, thus helping keep the network more secure — as in Bitcoin, “mining” Dogecoin also serves to confirm the transactions taking place on the digital currency’s master exchange ledger.

These all happen to be problems Bitcoin currently faces. Bitcoin has a early adoption and miner-arms-race regime. Those who got in earliest, or can mine the most, enjoy lopsided control over the Bitcoin market. We’ve discussed this elsewhere. The result is that they are crossing their fingers that Bitcoin adoption will become widespread, thus helping drive up value. It’s hard to tell what’s driving what, but the price has settled at $800 for a couple months now. That’s a lot to pay for a single Bitcoin for someone just entering the market.

...

 

[stbugs]

I was looking at that link above of all exchanges and the volume on Mt. Gox is still almost 3 times as much volume as the next highest exchange, even with all of the issues. In fact, their volume is almost 50% more than all of the other exchanges combined. No big deal...

 

[CBusAlex]

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2100100/mt-gox-bitcoin-price-falls-below-100.html

The phenomenon of forcing "escape buying" previously is pretty fascinating.

Since traders can’t withdraw bitcoin from Mt. Gox they are selling it to withdraw funds in the form of conventional currency, a practice he terms “escape selling.” The opposite situation, where U.S. dollars could not be withdrawn but bitcoin could, existed before on Mt. Gox, Garzik said.

“To ‘withdraw’ USD at that time, you were required to buy BTC (bitcoin), then withdraw BTC, thereby artificially pushing the price above other exchanges. This is ‘escape buying.’ This is the reason why Mt. Gox’s BTC/USD price was consistently higher than all other exchanges, until a week or so ago.”

So, back when the price of bitcoins was high Mt Gox would only let you withdraw by buying them, but now that the price has crashed you can only withdraw by selling them? Holy hell, how do people fall for this?

 

[cstu]

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2100100/mt-gox-bitcoin-price-falls-below-100.html

The phenomenon of forcing "escape buying" previously is pretty fascinating.

Since traders can’t withdraw bitcoin from Mt. Gox they are selling it to withdraw funds in the form of conventional currency, a practice he terms “escape selling.” The opposite situation, where U.S. dollars could not be withdrawn but bitcoin could, existed before on Mt. Gox, Garzik said.

“To ‘withdraw’ USD at that time, you were required to buy BTC (bitcoin), then withdraw BTC, thereby artificially pushing the price above other exchanges. This is ‘escape buying.’ This is the reason why Mt. Gox’s BTC/USD price was consistently higher than all other exchanges, until a week or so ago.”

So, back when the price of bitcoins was high Mt Gox would only let you withdraw by buying them, but now that the price has crashed you can only withdraw by selling them? Holy hell, how do people fall for this?

I can't believe people are 'buying' bitcoins from Mt Gox now knowing that there's no way they will ever see their bitcoins.

 

[Sarnoff]

If You Have Bitcoin in Mt. Gox, You're Probably F####d.

 

[SacramentoBob]

If You Have Bitcoin in Mt. Gox, You're Probably F####d.

They were only the largest bitcoin exchange. Don't really see the big deal.

 

[Slapdash]

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2100100/mt-gox-bitcoin-price-falls-below-100.html

The phenomenon of forcing "escape buying" previously is pretty fascinating.

Since traders can’t withdraw bitcoin from Mt. Gox they are selling it to withdraw funds in the form of conventional currency, a practice he terms “escape selling.” The opposite situation, where U.S. dollars could not be withdrawn but bitcoin could, existed before on Mt. Gox, Garzik said.

“To ‘withdraw’ USD at that time, you were required to buy BTC (bitcoin), then withdraw BTC, thereby artificially pushing the price above other exchanges. This is ‘escape buying.’ This is the reason why Mt. Gox’s BTC/USD price was consistently higher than all other exchanges, until a week or so ago.”

So, back when the price of bitcoins was high Mt Gox would only let you withdraw by buying them, but now that the price has crashed you can only withdraw by selling them? Holy hell, how do people fall for this?

I can't believe people are 'buying' bitcoins from Mt Gox now knowing that there's no way they will ever see their bitcoins.

Normally bitloons are so rational....

 

[Slapdash]

If You Have Bitcoin in Mt. Gox, You're Probably F####d.

They were only the largest bitcoin exchange. Don't really see the big deal.

Good thing Jojo never bought any.