Any Chess fans? ***Controversy at Sinquefeld Cup Sep 1-13*** (1 Viewer)

[Navin Johnson]

Top two classical players in the world not named Magnus facing off in a blitz tie break.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AS2O1zyoiHI

Updated link to start of blitz match

 

[Navin Johnson]

Nepo wins first game with white.  Caruana has to answer now.

 

[Navin Johnson]

Fabi couldn't convert his pawn advantage and draws with white.  Nepo advances to play Wesley So in the semis.

Was hoping to see an armagedon game, oh well.

I'll edit the link to start at the beginning of the blitz tie breakers once the live feed ends if anyone cares.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

https://th.bing.com/th/id/Rb79d4f4f03a286f35f646ca3ad148cf2?

 

[Caveman33]

It's hard to get excited about chess as a spectator, but I've spent many weeks playing over the last few years.  Mostly as a distraction, with very little productive study or improvement.  I'm a ~2000 blitz player on Lichess if anyone wants a match.

 

[Navin Johnson]

It's hard to get excited about chess as a spectator, but I've spent many weeks playing over the last few years.  Mostly as a distraction, with very little productive study or improvement.  I'm a ~2000 blitz player on Lichess if anyone wants a match.

Watching classical chess is like watching grass grow.  Many of the top players (Magnus, Nakamura, Dubov among others) have admitted letting their classical games slip because they focus more on rapid/blitz/bullet.  Caruana and Depo both stayed away from online chess thru most of the pandemic to prepare for the candidates.  If you want to watch something kind of cool, you should watch some of the post-match press conferences from the candidates.  Both players would interact answering questions about why the made certain moves and they would explain why a suggested move was bad, recalling the exact position and showing like and move combination that either lost material or weakened their position.  The players would also interact with each other "yeah, but if you did this then you had..." while showing it on the screen.

One of the best (best imo) chess feeds on youtube is Agadmator's Chess Channel if anyone is interested.  Shows a lot of current as well as historically significant games.  He did a pretty good series on Paul Morphy a few months ago showing a lot of games against high level players from the era as well as some 8-table blindfold simuls.

I think I'm between 1700-1800 in blitz but I play mainly bullet.  I need to study my  openings more as once it gets past a handful of moves I don't see how certain moves are blundering, for me or for my opponent.  Play mostly London system as white but like to mess around with Grob when I'm taking my lumps and tilting.

 

[Caveman33]

Watching classical chess is like watching grass grow.  Many of the top players (Magnus, Nakamura, Dubov among others) have admitted letting their classical games slip because they focus more on rapid/blitz/bullet.  Caruana and Depo both stayed away from online chess thru most of the pandemic to prepare for the candidates.  If you want to watch something kind of cool, you should watch some of the post-match press conferences from the candidates.  Both players would interact answering questions about why the made certain moves and they would explain why a suggested move was bad, recalling the exact position and showing like and move combination that either lost material or weakened their position.  The players would also interact with each other "yeah, but if you did this then you had..." while showing it on the screen.

One of the best (best imo) chess feeds on youtube is Agadmator's Chess Channel if anyone is interested.  Shows a lot of current as well as historically significant games.  He did a pretty good series on Paul Morphy a few months ago showing a lot of games against high level players from the era as well as some 8-table blindfold simuls.

I think I'm between 1700-1800 in blitz but I play mainly bullet.  I need to study my  openings more as once it gets past a handful of moves I don't see how certain moves are blundering, for me or for my opponent.  Play mostly London system as white but like to mess around with Grob when I'm taking my lumps and tilting.

I enjoyed Agadmator when I was watching chess videos.  Ben Finegold was funny for awhile, he repeats jokes a lot.  The St. Louis Chess Club has a variety of GM instructors.  1 rich dude in St. Louis basically funds competitive American chess.  I spent maybe 6-12 months watching videos and analyzing which helped my rating go from ~1650 to ~1950.  I play as PawnBandit on Lichess.  Bullet is too quick for me, 5min/3sec is my preferred time and lately I would estimate I only castle in 25% of matches

 

[Navin Johnson]

I enjoyed Agadmator when I was watching chess videos.  Ben Finegold was funny for awhile, he repeats jokes a lot.  The St. Louis Chess Club has a variety of GM instructors.  1 rich dude in St. Louis basically funds competitive American chess.  I spent maybe 6-12 months watching videos and analyzing which helped my rating go from ~1650 to ~1950.  I play as PawnBandit on Lichess.  Bullet is too quick for me, 5min/3sec is my preferred time and lately I would estimate I only castle in 25% of matches

Yeah, I like to watch Josh Rosen's videos as well (from St. Louis Chess Club), I believe he is an IM.  Got me hooked playing Petrov against 1.e4, but I really don't know what to do if it doesn't flow into a Stafford gambit.

1/0 is a little quick for me but I can handle 1/1.  I think my rating got to over 1700 in bullet but it was because I was catching people unprepared for the Grob attack.  Now it yo-yos between 1250 and 1450 as  I learn the nuances of the London System.

 

[Navin Johnson]

Wesley So playing white all tied up with one game left in the final match against Magnus.  May see a blitz tie break.

https://youtu.be/jbCqvrgVAyo

 

[Navin Johnson]

Wesley So playing white all tied up with one game left in the final match against Magnus.  May see a blitz tie break.

https://youtu.be/jbCqvrgVAyo

Game 4 was a quick draw....heading to two game 5/3 tie-break.

 

[Navin Johnson]

Magnus opens the first game with white and plays the Orangutan?!

So wins with black and just needs a draw with white in Game 2.  So on the verge of winning 3 straight Finals against Magnus.

 

[Navin Johnson]

Magnus with the fist pump after equalizing with black.  Armageddon tie break coming.

No increment.  White gets 5 minutes, black gets 4.  White must win.

So finished higher in the preliminary round robin and chooses black.

 

[QuizGuy66]

Magnus opens the first game with white and plays the Orangutan?!

So wins with black and just needs a draw with white in Game 2.  So on the verge of winning 3 straight Finals against Magnus.

I am now more intrigued that there are Orangutans involved

Actually while I am not really a student of chess or a particular good player (when I play games have often had the arc of 'do something unexpected and end up magically with a big advantage - spend rest of game blundering away said advantage and losing') I do appreciate you creating this thread and classing up the joint

I'll try and check out some of this stuff when I have a chance.  But kudos regardless.

-QG

 

[SWC]

we had a chess set as a kid and we would line up the pieces on a stump and shoot them with a bb gun and contrary to what you would think you got more points if you hit the pawns because they were smaller so that was sort of our own little twist on the game take that to the bank brohans 

 

[Dr. No]

i like chess but watching it isn't so great but I do watch some occasional youtubes on it.

I have a running daily game with a friend.

I have been playing a lot more 5/5 blitz lately and i'm terrible...  just got my ranking up to 800.   With some time to think in like a 15/10 format I can get up to about 1000.   Never taken a lesson other than the chess.com lessons or read a book on the subject though.

 

[Navin Johnson]

i like chess but watching it isn't so great but I do watch some occasional youtubes on it.

I have a running daily game with a friend.

I have been playing a lot more 5/5 blitz lately and i'm terrible...  just got my ranking up to 800.   With some time to think in like a 15/10 format I can get up to about 1000.   Never taken a lesson other than the chess.com lessons or read a book on the subject though.

Take a look at this Stafford Gambit

Eric Rosen is another youtuber I like to watch

 

[Zow]

I enjoyed Agadmator when I was watching chess videos.  Ben Finegold was funny for awhile, he repeats jokes a lot.  The St. Louis Chess Club has a variety of GM instructors.  1 rich dude in St. Louis basically funds competitive American chess.  I spent maybe 6-12 months watching videos and analyzing which helped my rating go from ~1650 to ~1950.  I play as PawnBandit on Lichess.  Bullet is too quick for me, 5min/3sec is my preferred time and lately I would estimate I only castle in 25% of matches

Finegold is my favorite but I've gotten more into Eric Rosen. 

 

[Navin Johnson]

Finegold is my favorite but I've gotten more into Eric Rosen. 

Booooooo!

 

[Caveman33]

Finegold is my favorite but I've gotten more into Eric Rosen. 

I like Rosen as well. He has a quieter, funny while good hearted appeal.  I want to be Eric Rosen.  I think I am more Ben Finegold, unfortunately.

 

[Zow]

FYI @timschochet runs a yearly FBG tournament. 

 

[Navin Johnson]

FYI @timschochet runs a yearly FBG tournament. 

Yeah, not a fan of the correspondence format. Would love to do a faster version, ie rapid, blitz, or bullet

 

[Navin Johnson]

Accidentally clicked on Hikaru's twitch feed from lichess and he's pretty entertaining.  Playing a titled arena, good game commentary, good music.  

https://www.twitch.tv/gmhikaru

 

[Navin Johnson]

Candidates started up this weekend.  Alireza-Hikaru with a great game yesterday.  Not mentioned in the video, the difficult c3 push for Nakamura came on move 41 and Agadmator mention it came on move 41, they had reached time control and he had an extra hour at that point but he basically blitzed the move.  As they hit time control Nakamura was under 5 minutes and Firouja had almost an hour.  Went to dinner, came back, the position had hardly changed.  Nakamura had 55 minutes on the clock Firouja was under 30.

https://youtu.be/JJ9y5-pEdzM

 

[Bogart]

Candidates started up this weekend.  Alireza-Hikaru with a great game yesterday.  Not mentioned in the video, the difficult c3 push for Nakamura came on move 41 and Agadmator mention it came on move 41, they had reached time control and he had an extra hour at that point but he basically blitzed the move.  As they hit time control Nakamura was under 5 minutes and Firouja had almost an hour.  Went to dinner, came back, the position had hardly changed.  Nakamura had 55 minutes on the clock Firouja was under 30.

https://youtu.be/JJ9y5-pEdzM

This was a great game. Came in live towards the end. Alireza was taking tons of time for each move, then Hikaru would come back to the table, take 10 seconds, make a move and get up again. Really exciting for a draw. Hikaru is breaking down each of his games on his YT channel right after and those have been fun 20 min recaps.

 

[Navin Johnson]

Alireza crushed by Nepo in round 4.  Hikaru with white against Nepo about to kick off.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlCnkbi4B04

 

[Navin Johnson]

Nepo taking advantage of opponents blunders and converting two wins with black thus far.  Fabi keeping pace just a half point behind.  Alireza with pretty much zero chance to catch up at this point which means, if Magnus stays true to his word, we may see a Fabi-Nepo match to crown the world champion next year.

 

[eoMMan]

Why didn’t anyone tell me about the Botez sisters?

Link (a little annoying in this one but….)

 

[Navin Johnson]

Why didn’t anyone tell me about the Botez sisters?

Link (a little annoying in this one but….)

Never heard of the Botez Gambit?

The older one (Andrea?) is a decent watch on her own.  IIRC she is a Stanford grad and was Canadien junior champion at some point.  The younger one (Alexandra?) is like nails on a chalboard to listen to.  Both are quite easy in the eyes though and I believe they make 7 figures thru their Twitch and YouTube subs/views.

 

[Navin Johnson]

For those who haven't been keeping up, Magnus stepped down as world champion leaving the championship match between candidates winner Nepo and likely second place at the candidate's Ding Liren leaving him open to play more classical tournaments in a quest to raise his classical rating to 2900.

Fast forward to the Sinquefeld Cup in St. Louis which started this weekend. Magnus loses with the white pieces to Hans Niemann, the lowest rated player in the tournament and doesn't show up for Day 4 withdrawing from the tournament. . Following the post match analysis, where Neimann's explanation of his moves is borderline incoherent, there is widespread speculation that he cheated (he has twice been suspended from chess.com for cheating in online money tournaments) and new security measures are implemented as players are wanded for RFIDs before entering and the transmission is put on a 15 minute delay. In said interview he claims to have coincidentally prepped for the particular line that was played. The interviewer increduously questions him why as the match commentators couldn't recall Magnus ever playing the opening (g3 Nimzo Indian). Niemann responds that Carlsen actually played the opening against Wesley So in 2018. Turns out the game doesn't exist and Magnus hasn't played the opening since 2006. He is then outplayed by the interviewer several times on the analysis board when they go over different variations. Lots of speculation as he appears to swallow his gum or whatever is in his mouth as the match ends and he goes in and out of an accent he seems to have picked up (mix of Russian and German) in the interview.

 

[Runkle]

Saw Rosen & Levy's mentions on YouTube, and some of Hikaru. Should be some pretty good articles tomorrow with good analysis.

 

[Navin Johnson]

Saw Rosen & Levy's mentions on YouTube, and some of Hikaru. Should be some pretty good articles tomorrow with good analysis.

Yeah, I went to watch Erik Hansen on Twitch and he had the post game with Hans, didn't wait to see why and switched to Hikaru's and he had the same thing. Ended up watching until 1.30 am

 

[Bogart]

Saw Rosen & Levy's mentions on YouTube, and some of Hikaru. Should be some pretty good articles tomorrow with good analysis.

Watched Hikaru's recap yesterday - "this whole thing is just sus." Keeping it real for the kids. Will be an interesting week of updates from these guys. Levy and Hikaru I watch daily, will need to tune into Rosen.

 

[Caveman33]

For those who haven't been keeping up, Magnus stepped down as world champion leaving the championship match between candidates winner Nepo and likely second place at the candidate's Ding Liren leaving him open to play more classical tournaments in a quest to raise his classical rating to 2900.

Fast forward to the Sinquefeld Cup in St. Louis which started this weekend. Magnus loses with the white pieces to Hans Niemann, the lowest rated player in the tournament and doesn't show up for Day 4 withdrawing from the tournament. . Following the post match analysis, where Neimann's explanation of his moves is borderline incoherent, there is widespread speculation that he cheated (he has twice been suspended from chess.com for cheating in online money tournaments) and new security measures are implemented as players are wanded for RFIDs before entering and the transmission is put on a 15 minute delay. In said interview he claims to have coincidentally prepped for the particular line that was played. The interviewer increduously questions him why as the match commentators couldn't recall Magnus ever playing the opening (g3 Nimzo Indian). Niemann responds that Carlsen actually played the opening against Wesley So in 2018. Turns out the game doesn't exist and Magnus hasn't played the opening since 2006. He is then outplayed by the interviewer several times on the analysis board when they go over different variations. Lots of speculation as he appears to swallow his gum or whatever is in his mouth as the match ends and he goes in and out of an accent he seems to have picked up (mix of Russian and German) in the interview.

Good summary. I looked into this after seeing your post. Knowing nothing about Hans, I did not find his post game interview suspicious. The interviewer had probably already analyzed all the lines with an engine and it seemed like he was subtly trying to expose Hans. GMs are not always perfect in their post game analysis of all possible variations. It also turns out that Carlsen did play that opening against Wesley So but it was in 2019, not 2018 as Hans originally said.
Given that Carlsen has recently abandoned his title and generally seems to have lost interest in chess, it is not that shocking that he would be beaten by a lesser GM. If any cheating occurred, it seems most likely that Hans somehow got tipped off about what opening Carlsen was planning. However, without proof of this, Carlsen's actions look like really poor sportsmanship. And he has a loyal following that is quick to gang up against Hans. All the streamers are jumping in on the action. Let's not forget that Judit Polgar faced cheating accusations when she started beating top GMs. It's good drama, though.

 

[Navin Johnson]

For those who haven't been keeping up, Magnus stepped down as world champion leaving the championship match between candidates winner Nepo and likely second place at the candidate's Ding Liren leaving him open to play more classical tournaments in a quest to raise his classical rating to 2900.

Fast forward to the Sinquefeld Cup in St. Louis which started this weekend. Magnus loses with the white pieces to Hans Niemann, the lowest rated player in the tournament and doesn't show up for Day 4 withdrawing from the tournament. . Following the post match analysis, where Neimann's explanation of his moves is borderline incoherent, there is widespread speculation that he cheated (he has twice been suspended from chess.com for cheating in online money tournaments) and new security measures are implemented as players are wanded for RFIDs before entering and the transmission is put on a 15 minute delay. In said interview he claims to have coincidentally prepped for the particular line that was played. The interviewer increduously questions him why as the match commentators couldn't recall Magnus ever playing the opening (g3 Nimzo Indian). Niemann responds that Carlsen actually played the opening against Wesley So in 2018. Turns out the game doesn't exist and Magnus hasn't played the opening since 2006. He is then outplayed by the interviewer several times on the analysis board when they go over different variations. Lots of speculation as he appears to swallow his gum or whatever is in his mouth as the match ends and he goes in and out of an accent he seems to have picked up (mix of Russian and German) in the interview.

Good summary. I looked into this after seeing your post. Knowing nothing about Hans, I did not find his post game interview suspicious. The interviewer had probably already analyzed all the lines with an engine and it seemed like he was subtly trying to expose Hans. GMs are not always perfect in their post game analysis of all possible variations. It also turns out that Carlsen did play that opening against Wesley So but it was in 2019, not 2018 as Hans originally said.
Given that Carlsen has recently abandoned his title and generally seems to have lost interest in chess, it is not that shocking that he would be beaten by a lesser GM. If any cheating occurred, it seems most likely that Hans somehow got tipped off about what opening Carlsen was planning. However, without proof of this, Carlsen's actions look like really poor sportsmanship. And he has a loyal following that is quick to gang up against Hans. All the streamers are jumping in on the action. Let's not forget that Judit Polgar faced cheating accusations when she started beating top GMs. It's good drama, though.

Do you have a link to the 2019 game against So? I disagree that Magnus has been losing interest in chess, quite the contrary imo. He has been on a quest to break 2900 and he misses out on a handful of tournaments as WC. I am with you though that he feels his prep has been compromised and it was too big of a distraction to continue playing. His margin for error is razor thin if he wants to get to 2900.

Regarding the post match interview, yeah people are getting nitpicky but there are spots where he is claiming 'white is clearly winning' when the engine shows -3.00. These are lines he would have been calculating during the match. Maybe he just got lucky the match didn't unfold that way. Given the allegation of his suspension from chess.com, the suspicion is clealry warranted. I think Hansen said it best when he said 'one just doesn't float aimlessly into 2800 level play'.

 

[Zow]

Let's assume for sake of argument he cheated. Anybody have any theories as to how he would have been able to?

They seemed to scan him down pretty thoroughly the next day with no results. I can't figure out how logistically he would have cheated. It's not like he had a computer screen available to him (obviously online cheating is much easier with the use of an engine).

 

[Runkle]

Let's assume for sake of argument he cheated. Anybody have any theories as to how he would have been able to?

They seemed to scan him down pretty thoroughly the next day with no results. I can't figure out how logistically he would have cheated. It's not like he had a computer screen available to him (obviously online cheating is much easier with the use of an engine).

A few years back, one guy cheated with an accomplice in the room. The accomplice had a cell phone and would text the moves made on the board back to someone using a computer to see what the right response was. When he'd get the text reply back with the best move, the accomplice would signal the player by standing behind certain chairs in the room and where his arms were placed or something like that. Of course the player would scan clean, all he's doing is looking around the room every so often to see where his accomplice was standing.

 

[Zow]

Let's assume for sake of argument he cheated. Anybody have any theories as to how he would have been able to?

They seemed to scan him down pretty thoroughly the next day with no results. I can't figure out how logistically he would have cheated. It's not like he had a computer screen available to him (obviously online cheating is much easier with the use of an engine).

A few years back, one guy cheated with an accomplice in the room. The accomplice had a cell phone and would text the moves made on the board back to someone using a computer to see what the right response was. When he'd get the text reply back with the best move, the accomplice would signal the player by standing behind certain chairs in the room and where his arms were placed or something like that. Of course the player would scan clean, all he's doing is looking around the room every so often to see where his accomplice was standing.

Thanks. This was what I was looking for. Makes sense.

 

[Caveman33]

For those who haven't been keeping up, Magnus stepped down as world champion leaving the championship match between candidates winner Nepo and likely second place at the candidate's Ding Liren leaving him open to play more classical tournaments in a quest to raise his classical rating to 2900.

Fast forward to the Sinquefeld Cup in St. Louis which started this weekend. Magnus loses with the white pieces to Hans Niemann, the lowest rated player in the tournament and doesn't show up for Day 4 withdrawing from the tournament. . Following the post match analysis, where Neimann's explanation of his moves is borderline incoherent, there is widespread speculation that he cheated (he has twice been suspended from chess.com for cheating in online money tournaments) and new security measures are implemented as players are wanded for RFIDs before entering and the transmission is put on a 15 minute delay. In said interview he claims to have coincidentally prepped for the particular line that was played. The interviewer increduously questions him why as the match commentators couldn't recall Magnus ever playing the opening (g3 Nimzo Indian). Niemann responds that Carlsen actually played the opening against Wesley So in 2018. Turns out the game doesn't exist and Magnus hasn't played the opening since 2006. He is then outplayed by the interviewer several times on the analysis board when they go over different variations. Lots of speculation as he appears to swallow his gum or whatever is in his mouth as the match ends and he goes in and out of an accent he seems to have picked up (mix of Russian and German) in the interview.

Good summary. I looked into this after seeing your post. Knowing nothing about Hans, I did not find his post game interview suspicious. The interviewer had probably already analyzed all the lines with an engine and it seemed like he was subtly trying to expose Hans. GMs are not always perfect in their post game analysis of all possible variations. It also turns out that Carlsen did play that opening against Wesley So but it was in 2019, not 2018 as Hans originally said.
Given that Carlsen has recently abandoned his title and generally seems to have lost interest in chess, it is not that shocking that he would be beaten by a lesser GM. If any cheating occurred, it seems most likely that Hans somehow got tipped off about what opening Carlsen was planning. However, without proof of this, Carlsen's actions look like really poor sportsmanship. And he has a loyal following that is quick to gang up against Hans. All the streamers are jumping in on the action. Let's not forget that Judit Polgar faced cheating accusations when she started beating top GMs. It's good drama, though.

Do you have a link to the 2019 game against So? I disagree that Magnus has been losing interest in chess, quite the contrary imo. He has been on a quest to break 2900 and he misses out on a handful of tournaments as WC. I am with you though that he feels his prep has been compromised and it was too big of a distraction to continue playing. His margin for error is razor thin if he wants to get to 2900.

Regarding the post match interview, yeah people are getting nitpicky but there are spots where he is claiming 'white is clearly winning' when the engine shows -3.00. These are lines he would have been calculating during the match. Maybe he just got lucky the match didn't unfold that way. Given the allegation of his suspension from chess.com, the suspicion is clealry warranted. I think Hansen said it best when he said 'one just doesn't float aimlessly into 2800 level play'.

Magnus Carlsen vs Wesley So (2019)

Viewable chess game Magnus Carlsen vs Wesley So, 2019, with discussion forum and chess analysis features.

www.chessgames.com

Nigel Short pointed out that Carlsen played g3 in this game against So. It's not the exact same opening but they reached the same position through transposition.
Magnus may have been psychologically rattled during the match by thinking that Hans was cheating. Hans said he cheated in the online tournament at 12 and then again in random, non money games at 16. I watched his interview after round 5 and he appeared to say that he was acknowledging his checkered past at the recommendation of others. Not being honest for honesty's sake, but rather because he was strategically encouraged to do so by others.
It's certainly possible he cheated but without any evidence, I think it's more likely that he played well/got lucky and Magnus did not play well. Now that everyone is concerned that Hans might be cheating, they seem to be giving his moves the benefit of doubt. Even if it looks dubious, they figure he must have made an engine move.

 

[Navin Johnson]

For those who haven't been keeping up, Magnus stepped down as world champion leaving the championship match between candidates winner Nepo and likely second place at the candidate's Ding Liren leaving him open to play more classical tournaments in a quest to raise his classical rating to 2900.

Fast forward to the Sinquefeld Cup in St. Louis which started this weekend. Magnus loses with the white pieces to Hans Niemann, the lowest rated player in the tournament and doesn't show up for Day 4 withdrawing from the tournament. . Following the post match analysis, where Neimann's explanation of his moves is borderline incoherent, there is widespread speculation that he cheated (he has twice been suspended from chess.com for cheating in online money tournaments) and new security measures are implemented as players are wanded for RFIDs before entering and the transmission is put on a 15 minute delay. In said interview he claims to have coincidentally prepped for the particular line that was played. The interviewer increduously questions him why as the match commentators couldn't recall Magnus ever playing the opening (g3 Nimzo Indian). Niemann responds that Carlsen actually played the opening against Wesley So in 2018. Turns out the game doesn't exist and Magnus hasn't played the opening since 2006. He is then outplayed by the interviewer several times on the analysis board when they go over different variations. Lots of speculation as he appears to swallow his gum or whatever is in his mouth as the match ends and he goes in and out of an accent he seems to have picked up (mix of Russian and German) in the interview.

Good summary. I looked into this after seeing your post. Knowing nothing about Hans, I did not find his post game interview suspicious. The interviewer had probably already analyzed all the lines with an engine and it seemed like he was subtly trying to expose Hans. GMs are not always perfect in their post game analysis of all possible variations. It also turns out that Carlsen did play that opening against Wesley So but it was in 2019, not 2018 as Hans originally said.
Given that Carlsen has recently abandoned his title and generally seems to have lost interest in chess, it is not that shocking that he would be beaten by a lesser GM. If any cheating occurred, it seems most likely that Hans somehow got tipped off about what opening Carlsen was planning. However, without proof of this, Carlsen's actions look like really poor sportsmanship. And he has a loyal following that is quick to gang up against Hans. All the streamers are jumping in on the action. Let's not forget that Judit Polgar faced cheating accusations when she started beating top GMs. It's good drama, though.

Do you have a link to the 2019 game against So? I disagree that Magnus has been losing interest in chess, quite the contrary imo. He has been on a quest to break 2900 and he misses out on a handful of tournaments as WC. I am with you though that he feels his prep has been compromised and it was too big of a distraction to continue playing. His margin for error is razor thin if he wants to get to 2900.

Regarding the post match interview, yeah people are getting nitpicky but there are spots where he is claiming 'white is clearly winning' when the engine shows -3.00. These are lines he would have been calculating during the match. Maybe he just got lucky the match didn't unfold that way. Given the allegation of his suspension from chess.com, the suspicion is clealry warranted. I think Hansen said it best when he said 'one just doesn't float aimlessly into 2800 level play'.

Magnus Carlsen vs Wesley So (2019)

Viewable chess game Magnus Carlsen vs Wesley So, 2019, with discussion forum and chess analysis features.

www.chessgames.com

Nigel Short pointed out that Carlsen played g3 in this game against So. It's not the exact same opening but they reached the same position through transposition.
Magnus may have been psychologically rattled during the match by thinking that Hans was cheating. Hans said he cheated in the online tournament at 12 and then again in random, non money games at 16. I watched his interview after round 5 and he appeared to say that he was acknowledging his checkered past at the recommendation of others. Not being honest for honesty's sake, but rather because he was strategically encouraged to do so by others.
It's certainly possible he cheated but without any evidence, I think it's more likely that he played well/got lucky and Magnus did not play well. Now that everyone is concerned that Hans might be cheating, they seem to be giving his moves the benefit of doubt. Even if it looks dubious, they figure he must have made an engine move.

A blitz game? Makes it even more suspicious IMO.

Chess.com banned him again fwiw

 

[Zow]

For those who haven't been keeping up, Magnus stepped down as world champion leaving the championship match between candidates winner Nepo and likely second place at the candidate's Ding Liren leaving him open to play more classical tournaments in a quest to raise his classical rating to 2900.

Fast forward to the Sinquefeld Cup in St. Louis which started this weekend. Magnus loses with the white pieces to Hans Niemann, the lowest rated player in the tournament and doesn't show up for Day 4 withdrawing from the tournament. . Following the post match analysis, where Neimann's explanation of his moves is borderline incoherent, there is widespread speculation that he cheated (he has twice been suspended from chess.com for cheating in online money tournaments) and new security measures are implemented as players are wanded for RFIDs before entering and the transmission is put on a 15 minute delay. In said interview he claims to have coincidentally prepped for the particular line that was played. The interviewer increduously questions him why as the match commentators couldn't recall Magnus ever playing the opening (g3 Nimzo Indian). Niemann responds that Carlsen actually played the opening against Wesley So in 2018. Turns out the game doesn't exist and Magnus hasn't played the opening since 2006. He is then outplayed by the interviewer several times on the analysis board when they go over different variations. Lots of speculation as he appears to swallow his gum or whatever is in his mouth as the match ends and he goes in and out of an accent he seems to have picked up (mix of Russian and German) in the interview.

Good summary. I looked into this after seeing your post. Knowing nothing about Hans, I did not find his post game interview suspicious. The interviewer had probably already analyzed all the lines with an engine and it seemed like he was subtly trying to expose Hans. GMs are not always perfect in their post game analysis of all possible variations. It also turns out that Carlsen did play that opening against Wesley So but it was in 2019, not 2018 as Hans originally said.
Given that Carlsen has recently abandoned his title and generally seems to have lost interest in chess, it is not that shocking that he would be beaten by a lesser GM. If any cheating occurred, it seems most likely that Hans somehow got tipped off about what opening Carlsen was planning. However, without proof of this, Carlsen's actions look like really poor sportsmanship. And he has a loyal following that is quick to gang up against Hans. All the streamers are jumping in on the action. Let's not forget that Judit Polgar faced cheating accusations when she started beating top GMs. It's good drama, though.

Do you have a link to the 2019 game against So? I disagree that Magnus has been losing interest in chess, quite the contrary imo. He has been on a quest to break 2900 and he misses out on a handful of tournaments as WC. I am with you though that he feels his prep has been compromised and it was too big of a distraction to continue playing. His margin for error is razor thin if he wants to get to 2900.

Regarding the post match interview, yeah people are getting nitpicky but there are spots where he is claiming 'white is clearly winning' when the engine shows -3.00. These are lines he would have been calculating during the match. Maybe he just got lucky the match didn't unfold that way. Given the allegation of his suspension from chess.com, the suspicion is clealry warranted. I think Hansen said it best when he said 'one just doesn't float aimlessly into 2800 level play'.

Magnus Carlsen vs Wesley So (2019)

Viewable chess game Magnus Carlsen vs Wesley So, 2019, with discussion forum and chess analysis features.

www.chessgames.com

Nigel Short pointed out that Carlsen played g3 in this game against So. It's not the exact same opening but they reached the same position through transposition.
Magnus may have been psychologically rattled during the match by thinking that Hans was cheating. Hans said he cheated in the online tournament at 12 and then again in random, non money games at 16. I watched his interview after round 5 and he appeared to say that he was acknowledging his checkered past at the recommendation of others. Not being honest for honesty's sake, but rather because he was strategically encouraged to do so by others.
It's certainly possible he cheated but without any evidence, I think it's more likely that he played well/got lucky and Magnus did not play well. Now that everyone is concerned that Hans might be cheating, they seem to be giving his moves the benefit of doubt. Even if it looks dubious, they figure he must have made an engine move.

My understanding from some online chess guys (primarily Finegold and some others) and some written articles is that Hans' moves were not all "engine moves" and were generally pretty understandable/expected for a top-level player. It seems the most unbelievable part for Hans is that he happened to prep for the opening - which seems dubious given that his claim doesn't really match up with Magnus's history with the opening.

 

[Soootch]

Magnus & the Botez sisters were on recent episodes of the Lex Fridman podcast. The sisters weren’t annoying at all imo, in fact they come off reasonably intelligent. I enjoyed it a lot.

 

[JB Breakfast Club]

Let's assume for sake of argument he cheated. Anybody have any theories as to how he would have been able to?

They seemed to scan him down pretty thoroughly the next day with no results. I can't figure out how logistically he would have cheated. It's not like he had a computer screen available to him (obviously online cheating is much easier with the use of an engine).

The internet has a theory...

Chess world rocked by rumours of anal beads and artificial intelligence

Fans speculated that anal beads could transmit messages.

metro.co.uk

 

[Caveman33]

For those who haven't been keeping up, Magnus stepped down as world champion leaving the championship match between candidates winner Nepo and likely second place at the candidate's Ding Liren leaving him open to play more classical tournaments in a quest to raise his classical rating to 2900.

Fast forward to the Sinquefeld Cup in St. Louis which started this weekend. Magnus loses with the white pieces to Hans Niemann, the lowest rated player in the tournament and doesn't show up for Day 4 withdrawing from the tournament. . Following the post match analysis, where Neimann's explanation of his moves is borderline incoherent, there is widespread speculation that he cheated (he has twice been suspended from chess.com for cheating in online money tournaments) and new security measures are implemented as players are wanded for RFIDs before entering and the transmission is put on a 15 minute delay. In said interview he claims to have coincidentally prepped for the particular line that was played. The interviewer increduously questions him why as the match commentators couldn't recall Magnus ever playing the opening (g3 Nimzo Indian). Niemann responds that Carlsen actually played the opening against Wesley So in 2018. Turns out the game doesn't exist and Magnus hasn't played the opening since 2006. He is then outplayed by the interviewer several times on the analysis board when they go over different variations. Lots of speculation as he appears to swallow his gum or whatever is in his mouth as the match ends and he goes in and out of an accent he seems to have picked up (mix of Russian and German) in the interview.

Good summary. I looked into this after seeing your post. Knowing nothing about Hans, I did not find his post game interview suspicious. The interviewer had probably already analyzed all the lines with an engine and it seemed like he was subtly trying to expose Hans. GMs are not always perfect in their post game analysis of all possible variations. It also turns out that Carlsen did play that opening against Wesley So but it was in 2019, not 2018 as Hans originally said.
Given that Carlsen has recently abandoned his title and generally seems to have lost interest in chess, it is not that shocking that he would be beaten by a lesser GM. If any cheating occurred, it seems most likely that Hans somehow got tipped off about what opening Carlsen was planning. However, without proof of this, Carlsen's actions look like really poor sportsmanship. And he has a loyal following that is quick to gang up against Hans. All the streamers are jumping in on the action. Let's not forget that Judit Polgar faced cheating accusations when she started beating top GMs. It's good drama, though.

Do you have a link to the 2019 game against So? I disagree that Magnus has been losing interest in chess, quite the contrary imo. He has been on a quest to break 2900 and he misses out on a handful of tournaments as WC. I am with you though that he feels his prep has been compromised and it was too big of a distraction to continue playing. His margin for error is razor thin if he wants to get to 2900.

Regarding the post match interview, yeah people are getting nitpicky but there are spots where he is claiming 'white is clearly winning' when the engine shows -3.00. These are lines he would have been calculating during the match. Maybe he just got lucky the match didn't unfold that way. Given the allegation of his suspension from chess.com, the suspicion is clealry warranted. I think Hansen said it best when he said 'one just doesn't float aimlessly into 2800 level play'.

Magnus Carlsen vs Wesley So (2019)

Viewable chess game Magnus Carlsen vs Wesley So, 2019, with discussion forum and chess analysis features.

www.chessgames.com

Nigel Short pointed out that Carlsen played g3 in this game against So. It's not the exact same opening but they reached the same position through transposition.
Magnus may have been psychologically rattled during the match by thinking that Hans was cheating. Hans said he cheated in the online tournament at 12 and then again in random, non money games at 16. I watched his interview after round 5 and he appeared to say that he was acknowledging his checkered past at the recommendation of others. Not being honest for honesty's sake, but rather because he was strategically encouraged to do so by others.
It's certainly possible he cheated but without any evidence, I think it's more likely that he played well/got lucky and Magnus did not play well. Now that everyone is concerned that Hans might be cheating, they seem to be giving his moves the benefit of doubt. Even if it looks dubious, they figure he must have made an engine move.

My understanding from some online chess guys (primarily Finegold and some others) and some written articles is that Hans' moves were not all "engine moves" and were generally pretty understandable/expected for a top-level player. It seems the most unbelievable part for Hans is that he happened to prep for the opening - which seems dubious given that his claim doesn't really match up with Magnus's history with the opening.

I trust Finegold's judgment of the moves. I was mainly referring to Alireza refusing Hans knight sacrifice even though he couldn't see how it would work for Hans. Han's claims about the opening seem pretty solid to me. As he said, Magnus has been opening with the Catalan a lot lately and their game involved a variation from that. He also correctly said that the position had been reached in a Carlsen vs So match. For him to know about Carlsen vs So in his post match interview, it seems he would have either needed a conspirator to have fed him the information during the match, alongside the winning moves, or he somehow received Magnus's plans ahead of time, or like most top players, he does a lot of prep and has excellent retention and he happened to review that game.

We will likely never know if Hans cheated. He can't prove that he is innocent and he has cheated in the past (and he has a phony accent and is apparently an unlikeable guy). Chess.com claims that he understated the extent of his past cheating. However, I believe they already knew about all that cheating and only decided to ban him after Magnus reacted sorely to losing. I've seen Magnus be a poor loser in the past. It's rare, because he rarely loses but his reaction is not surprising.

 

[Bogart]

Let's assume for sake of argument he cheated. Anybody have any theories as to how he would have been able to?

They seemed to scan him down pretty thoroughly the next day with no results. I can't figure out how logistically he would have cheated. It's not like he had a computer screen available to him (obviously online cheating is much easier with the use of an engine).

The internet has a theory...

Chess world rocked by rumours of anal beads and artificial intelligence

Fans speculated that anal beads could transmit messages.

metro.co.uk

I was never told you could play chess like that. So much still to learn.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Magnus playing the rematch against Hans Niemann (the player who beat Carlsen and was suspected of cheating to do it) makes one move and resigns the game.

 

[Bogart]

Magnus playing the rematch against Hans Niemann (the player who beat Carlsen and was suspected of cheating to do it) makes one move and resigns the game.

This tells me that something isn't cool with what Hans did. If you are Magnus, you don't play this card if you weren't really sure that Hans cheated.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

If you are Magnus, you don't play this card if you weren't really sure that Hans cheated.

100% sure Magnus feels that way, but the Chess world is pretty fired up that absent some real evidence he screwed up on this one.

 

[Psychopav]

Even though he takes the "L" on the match against Niemann, does Carlsen still have a shot at winning the Chess24 tournament?

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

"Queen's Gambit Resigned"

 

[Bogart]

Magnus with an official statement on Twitter