Alabama Voters reject Roy Moore: Update: Roy is running again! (1 Viewer)

[The Future Champs]

Kenneth P. Vogel‏ @kenvogel

Actual quote from ALABAMA PASTOR, on Roy Moore’s accusers: “How these gals came up with this, I don't know. They must have had some sweet dreams somewhere down the line. Plus, there are some 14-year-olds, who, the way they look, could pass for 20."

Nobody Deep South’s like the Deep South.

 

[Dedfin]

It's gonna take a poll with Jones +15 for me to think it's going to be a close race.  I think Moore wins this.  Let's not forget what state we are talking about here.

 

[tommyGunZ]

I predict the opposite.

Right now, I suspect that most people, even Alabama Republicans, believe that Roy Moore is a creep. But while they realize that he’s a creep, they don’t realize that everyone else realizes it, too. Moore can garner plenty of support when everyone knows he’s a creep; but when everyone knows that everyone knows he’s a creep, that’s when he’s done. And we’re inching our way toward that point.

I heard the Louis C.K. rumors over a year ago. I believed them to be credible. I was still a fan, though, because he’s really funny and generally seems like a good guy aside from being a weirdo pervert. Subconsciously, it’s way easier to be a fan of a weirdo pervert when it’s not common knowledge that he’s a weirdo pervert. It’s not a conscious calculation, but on some level I know that I’m not risking my social status by enjoying the comedy of a weirdo pervert so long as everyone else doesn’t necessarily know that I know that he’s a weirdo pervert. Once it’s common knowledge — once everybody knows that everybody knows — that’s when it can’t be overlooked.

That’s the path we’re on with Moore right now, I think. Most of his supporters believe that he’s a creep, but they mostly keep that belief private (while publicly stating the opposite), so they don’t know that everyone else also believes it.

As time passes and the issue stays out in the open, with the evidence becoming more exhausting to publicly deny, not only will Moore’s supporters believe that he’s guilty (as they already do), but they’ll eventually realize that all of their friends and family and acquaintances believe it as well, and it will become untenable to support him at that point.

I think we’re getting there — slowly, right now, but public attitudes will change very quickly once we reach that tipping point.

This is logical and makes sense. 

 Counterpoint of course is Trump himself, and the fact that ballots are secret, so many will vote for that creep while denying it publicly to avoid the social cost. 

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Kenneth P. Vogel‏ @kenvogel

Actual quote from ALABAMA PASTOR, on Roy Moore’s accusers: “How these gals came up with this, I don't know. They must have had some sweet dreams somewhere down the line. Plus, there are some 14-year-olds, who, the way they look, could pass for 20."

Read: "They're lying. But also, it was their fault."

 

[Koya]

I predict the opposite.

Right now, I suspect that most people, even Alabama Republicans, believe that Roy Moore is a creep. But while they realize that he’s a creep, they don’t realize that everyone else realizes it, too. Moore can garner plenty of support when everyone knows he’s a creep; but when everyone knows that everyone knows he’s a creep, that’s when he’s done. And we’re inching our way toward that point.

I heard the Louis C.K. rumors over a year ago. I believed them to be credible. I was still a fan, though, because he’s really funny and generally seems like a good guy aside from being a weirdo pervert. Subconsciously, it’s way easier to be a fan of a weirdo pervert when it’s not common knowledge that he’s a weirdo pervert. It’s not a conscious calculation, but on some level I know that I’m not risking my social status by enjoying the comedy of a weirdo pervert so long as everyone else doesn’t necessarily know that I know that he’s a weirdo pervert. Once it’s common knowledge — once everybody knows that everybody knows — that’s when it can’t be overlooked.

That’s the path we’re on with Moore right now, I think. Most of his supporters believe that he’s a creep, but they mostly keep that belief private (while publicly stating the opposite), so they don’t know that everyone else also believes it.

As time passes and the issue stays out in the open, with the evidence becoming more exhausting to publicly deny, not only will Moore’s supporters believe that he’s guilty (as they already do), but they’ll eventually realize that all of their friends and family and acquaintances believe it as well, and it will become untenable to support him at that point.

I think we’re getting there — slowly, right now, but public attitudes will change very quickly once we reach that tipping point.

Group Plausible Deniability.

I mean, we've all heard things, but who REALLY knows the truth, right bro?

That's a lot easier to deal with than... well, we both know the depths of this guys perverted scumbagness, so...

 

[PlasmaDogPlasma]

Read: "They're lying. But also, it was their fault."

They really shouldn't have worn a dress or been teenagers.

 

[Sheriff Bart]

I predict the opposite.

Right now, I suspect that most people, even Alabama Republicans, believe that Roy Moore is a creep. But while they realize that he’s a creep, they don’t realize that everyone else realizes it, too. Moore can garner plenty of support when everyone knows he’s a creep; but when everyone knows that everyone knows he’s a creep, that’s when he’s done. And we’re inching our way toward that point.

I heard the Louis C.K. rumors over a year ago. I believed them to be credible. I was still a fan, though, because he’s really funny and generally seems like a good guy aside from being a weirdo pervert. Subconsciously, it’s way easier to be a fan of a weirdo pervert when it’s not common knowledge that he’s a weirdo pervert. It’s not a conscious calculation, but on some level I know that I’m not risking my social status by enjoying the comedy of a weirdo pervert so long as everyone else doesn’t necessarily know that I know that he’s a weirdo pervert. Once it’s common knowledge — once everybody knows that everybody knows — that’s when it can’t be overlooked.

That’s the path we’re on with Moore right now, I think. Most of his supporters believe that he’s a creep, but they mostly keep that belief private (while publicly stating the opposite), so they don’t know that everyone else also believes it.

As time passes and the issue stays out in the open, with the evidence becoming more exhausting to publicly deny, not only will Moore’s supporters believe that he’s guilty (as they already do), but they’ll eventually realize that all of their friends and family and acquaintances believe it as well, and it will become untenable to support him at that point.

I think we’re getting there — slowly, right now, but public attitudes will change very quickly once we reach that tipping point.

He's a weirdo. What the hell is he doing there?  He doesn't belong there. 

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

North Queensland, the Alabama down under.

 

[The Future Champs]

North Queensland, the Alabama down under.

I want to like this, but that was kinda alarming.  

 

[jon_mx]

This is logical and makes sense. 

 Counterpoint of course is Trump himself, and the fact that ballots are secret, so many will vote for that creep while denying it publicly to avoid the social cost. 

This argument was made for Obama that all these bigots would vote against him under the cover of the polls.  It did not happen then and it was not what happened with Trump.  

 

[massraider]

If people keep pushing this saucy little temptress was asking for it angle,  enough Alabama women might get pissed enough to make a dent.

 

[James Daulton]

This argument was made for Obama that all these bigots would vote against him under the cover of the polls.  It did not happen then and it was not what happened with Trump.  

Didn't Trump outperform the polls?

 

[jon_mx]

Didn't Trump outperform the polls?

I thought that was the Ruskies.  Well I am glad we can finally put that to bed. 

 

[apalmer]

This argument was made for Obama that all these bigots would vote against him under the cover of the polls.  It did not happen then and it was not what happened with Trump.  

Nice to know you haven't lost your sense of humor.

 

[jon_mx]

Nice to know you haven't lost your sense of humor.

Can you please point be to the alleged humor?   I will gladly laugh at something that was funny, either intentional or even unintentional. 

 

[AAABatteries]

North Queensland, the Alabama down under.

 

 

[msommer]

North Queensland, the Alabama down under.

The best bit is the complete change of demeanor, like he has a split personality or something

ETA: I suppose we now know the Australian version of "SQUIRREL!!!"

 

[The Commish]

This argument was made for Obama that all these bigots would vote against him under the cover of the polls.  It did not happen then and it was not what happened with Trump.  

 

 

[Redwes25]

North Queensland, the Alabama down under.

 

[apalmer]

Can you please point be to the alleged humor?   I will gladly laugh at something that was funny, either intentional or even unintentional. 

The bigots didn't vote against Obama or for Trump?  You mean you were serious?

 

[Henry Ford]

Didn't Trump outperform the polls?

I venture to say Clinton underperformed the polls. 

 

[Sinn Fein]

Didn't Trump outperform the polls?

Did he?  He lost the popular vote by about 5%, right?  Wasn't that the poll margin?  Certainly would have been in the margin of error.

I am not sure how reliable the state polls were, or whether the key states were within the margin of error.

 

[Workhorse]

I predict the opposite.

Right now, I suspect that most people, even Alabama Republicans, believe that Roy Moore is a creep. But while they realize that he’s a creep, they don’t realize that everyone else realizes it, too. Moore can garner plenty of support when everyone knows he’s a creep; but when everyone knows that everyone knows he’s a creep, that’s when he’s done. And we’re inching our way toward that point.

I heard the Louis C.K. rumors over a year ago. I believed them to be credible. I was still a fan, though, because he’s really funny and generally seems like a good guy aside from being a weirdo pervert. Subconsciously, it’s way easier to be a fan of a weirdo pervert when it’s not common knowledge that he’s a weirdo pervert. It’s not a conscious calculation, but on some level I know that I’m not risking my social status by enjoying the comedy of a weirdo pervert so long as everyone else doesn’t necessarily know that I know that he’s a weirdo pervert. Once it’s common knowledge — once everybody knows that everybody knows — that’s when it can’t be overlooked.

That’s the path we’re on with Moore right now, I think. Most of his supporters believe that he’s a creep, but they mostly keep that belief private (while publicly stating the opposite), so they don’t know that everyone else also believes it.

As time passes and the issue stays out in the open, with the evidence becoming more exhausting to publicly deny, not only will Moore’s supporters believe that he’s guilty (as they already do), but they’ll eventually realize that all of their friends and family and acquaintances believe it as well, and it will become untenable to support him at that point.

I think we’re getting there — slowly, right now, but public attitudes will change very quickly once we reach that tipping point.

I agree with this. The most recent 538 podcast explained how polls are starting to shift towards this outcome as Republicans are in the "permission" phase with withdrawing support for Moore and either staying home or casting a vote for Jones. 

 

[timschochet]

I agree with this. The most recent 538 podcast explained how polls are starting to shift towards this outcome as Republicans are in the "permission" phase with withdrawing support for Moore and either staying home or casting a vote for Jones. 

Man I hope so. 

Its only one state, and it’s hardly fair to make Alabama the representative of the Republican Party as a whole, but let’s face it: this election is huge, and the outcome will determine how we view conservative voters. That’s just a fact. 

 

[Osaurus]

Moore will most likely win regardless of what current trends show.  I would be very happy to be wrong.

 

[roadkill1292]

Moore will most likely win regardless of what current trends show.  I would be very happy to be wrong.

Yeah, I wish I could be as optimistic as MT, too. But I think we're underestimating -- as we did a year ago -- how many voters want values to remain the same. And by that, they mean where the appearances of Christian faith, traditional gender roles and old-fashioned patriotism were the bedrocks of community life. Creepy as he is, Roy Moore embodies those values better than any secular Democrat with their peculiar dreams of progress ever could.

Oh, I just saw a prediction this morning that by 2040 70% of the population will live in 15 states. If the real voter divide in this country is young/old, urban/rural, then the country is going to be a very different place in 2040.

 

[PlasmaDogPlasma]

I like the way roadkill thinks the country will still be around in 2040.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Man I hope so. 

Its only one state, and it’s hardly fair to make Alabama the representative of the Republican Party as a whole, but let’s face it: this election is huge, and the outcome will determine how we view conservative voters. That’s just a fact. 

Nah, it's just one election, and a weird one at that. People were saying the same thing about GA6 back in April and we learned a couple weeks ago that it was pretty meaningless in the bigger picture.  I won't think conservatives have seen the light on sexual assault if they reject Moore (he was pretty controversial and unpopular even before we found out he was a perv, plus there's still the matter of that other prominent sexual predator they continue to embrace and defend).  And I won't assume they're hopeless if they elect him (it is Alabama after all).

 

[roadkill1292]

I like the way roadkill thinks the country will still be around in 2040.

It's the Curse of Progressivism, man. We always think we can make things better despite the resistance from the worst of us. I actually think the next gen coming along will move us forward in lots of ways, which may be why the populists are making college education so much more expensive. 58% of Republicans think that colleges are not a positive factor in the US.

But, hey, start us up the thread (there may actually be one somewhere, IIRC) and I'll be there with an opinion or two thousand.

 

[tommyGunZ]

Nah, it's just one election, and a weird one at that. People were saying the same thing about GA6 back in April and we learned a couple weeks ago that it was pretty meaningless in the bigger picture.  I won't think conservatives have seen the light on sexual assault if they reject Moore (he was pretty controversial and unpopular even before we found out he was a perv, plus there's still the matter of that other prominent sexual predator they continue to embrace and defend).  And I won't assume they're hopeless if they elect him (it is Alabama after all).

Agreed.  And what if Alabama voters "reject" Moore and elect Jones by a 51-49 margin?  Is that really "rejection"?

 

[BeaverCleaver]

Man I hope so. 

Its only one state, and it’s hardly fair to make Alabama the representative of the Republican Party as a whole, but let’s face it: this election is huge, and the outcome will determine how we view conservative voters. That’s just a fact. 

No Tim. It is one state and not something where you can make one of your large over generalizations. 

 

[Sheriff Bart]

Trump, live right now, was just asked about the accusations against Moore.  "He denies it, we don't need somebody soft on crime like Jones." 

Dodged the question about the women accusing him.  Said something about "women are very special" though. 

Hate him.

 

[packersfan]

Trump, live right now, was just asked about the accusations against Moore.  "He denies it, we don't need somebody soft on crime like Jones." 

Dodged the question about the women accusing him.  Said something about "women are very special" though. 

Hate him.

Won't condemn an alleged sexual predator of underage girls. Attacks Franken immediately with a childish insult. 

Ladies and gentleman, the leader of the free world.

 

[sho nuff]

Soft on what kinds of crimes?  Like sexual abuse, any number of abuses of underaged girls?...those kinds of crimes?

 

[packersfan]

Chris Donovan‏Verified account @chrisdonovan  4m4 minutes ago
Trump on accusations:
*against O'Reilly, in April '17: "I don’t think Bill would do anything wrong”/ “I know Bill. He’s a good person"(NYT)
*against Ailes, in July '16: "I think they r unfounded just based on what I've read/"Totally unfounded, based on what I read"(Wash Examiner)

 

[thayman]

Chris Donovan‏Verified account @chrisdonovan  4m4 minutes ago
Trump on accusations:
*against O'Reilly, in April '17: "I don’t think Bill would do anything wrong”/ “I know Bill. He’s a good person"(NYT)
*against Ailes, in July '16: "I think they r unfounded just based on what I've read/"Totally unfounded, based on what I read"(Wash Examiner)

Birds of a feather.......

 

[packersfan]

Nope, no such thing as party over country. What kind of craziness is that?

NBC News‏Verified account @NBCNews 37s37 seconds ago

NBC News Retweeted NBC News

“We don’t need a liberal person in there, a Democrat,” Trump says of Alabama Senate race, repeatedly stressing that Roy Moore has denied sexual misconduct allegations

 

[sho nuff]

Chris Donovan‏Verified account @chrisdonovan  4m4 minutes ago
Trump on accusations:
*against O'Reilly, in April '17: "I don’t think Bill would do anything wrong”/ “I know Bill. He’s a good person"(NYT)
*against Ailes, in July '16: "I think they r unfounded just based on what I've read/"Totally unfounded, based on what I read"(Wash Examiner)

Believes O'Reilly, Ailse, Moore, Putin....doesn't believe the US Intelligence Community.

 

[packersfan]

Believes O'Reilly, Ailse, Moore, Putin....doesn't believe the US Intelligence Community.

It's the Upside Down and Eleven is nowhere around to save us. 

 

[Coeur de Lion]

The President of the United States just essentially told people to vote for a child molester because a former US Attorney and career prosecutor famous for convicting KKK bombers is “soft on crime.”

Your 2017 Republican Party folks...

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

US Attorneys drain actual corruption swamps, take down drug kingpins, terrorists, fraudsters, white collar criminals, serial murderers and the vilest scum among us. Jones may be a liberal but he puts bad guys away just by nature of his resume.

 

[msommer]

Won't condemn an alleged sexual predator of underage girls. Attacks Franken immediately with a childish insult. 

Ladies and gentleman, the leader of the free world.

Merkel said no such thing

 

[Henry Ford]

Merkel said no such thing

Oh, come on.  She’s not suddenly the leader of the free world because of a few months of bad press for Trumps. 

Macron is.  He offered to pay the U.S. portion of the Paris agreements on climate change...

 

[packersfan]

Oh, come on.  She’s not suddenly the leader of the free world because of a few months of bad press for Trumps. 

Macron is.  He offered to pay the U.S. portion of the Paris agreements on climate change...

Dammit. Beat me to it. 

OK, I'll go Trudeau just to change things up. 

 

[joffer]

HT should be here any minute

 

[PlasmaDogPlasma]

HT should be here any minute

Definitely not the leader of the free world.

 

[TobiasFunke]

HT should be here any minute

To be fair to the gang, who has time to defend their decision to elect a POS president who favors child molesters when there's black people kneeling during the national anthem?

 

[Sammy3469]

Nope, no such thing as party over country. What kind of craziness is that?

NBC News‏Verified account @NBCNews 37s37 seconds ago

NBC News Retweeted NBC News

“We don’t need a liberal person in there, a Democrat,” Trump says of Alabama Senate race, repeatedly stressing that Roy Moore has denied sexual misconduct allegations

THERE.HE.IS

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

The President of the United States just essentially told people to vote for a child molester because a former US Attorney and career prosecutor famous for convicting KKK bombers is “soft on crime.”

Your 2017 Republican Party folks...

I'm beginning to suspect that when people like POTUS use the word "crime," they mean something else.

 

[Sammy3469]

I'm beginning to suspect that when people like POTUS use the word "crime," they mean something else.

:dogwhistle: