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AL MVP (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter scoobus
- Start date
Has anyone noticed that trout's numbers are falling off in the heat of the playoff race while Cabrera has stepped up huge? Detroit is in better position to make the post season too. I think Cabrera gets it. I think the fact that Cabrera has proven he is this good year after year also plays in his favor. Trout beats Cabrera on speed and defense, but everywhere else advantage Cabrera. It will be a close vote though. But if Detroit gets in the playoffs, I have no doubt Cabrera gets it.
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sports_fan
Footballguy
Cabrera's season is nearly identical to his 2010 season. Hamilton easily won the MVP over him that year.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/awards/awards_2010.shtml#ALmvp
I think he loses in similar fashion to Trout this season.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/awards/awards_2010.shtml#ALmvp
I think he loses in similar fashion to Trout this season.
Gopher State
Footballguy
Cabrera hasn't been a Gold Glove candidate at third base with 13 errors. Trout, meanwhile, has an all-around game that gives him an edge over Cabrera in sabermetrics.
slight edge to Trout
slight edge to Trout
Terrible analogyLast time I checked, Trout is not batting .352. Besides, Cabrera is already a good chunk ahead of his 2010 numbers with 13 games to play.
If you are going to make the argument, this is the angle to take because Cabrera is having a more productive season at the plate.
A the big thing is Trout missed the first 20 games of the season, and I think they went 6-14. Maybe if Trout played, they would have won more of those games and the Angels would be fighting for first place. But Trout DID NOT play and they are not in first place. You can't give a guy an MVP based on what if. It is what they did do, and Trout was not playing. Should be a big advantage for Cabrera.
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Mr. Pickles
Footballguy
13 errors isn't bad at 3B. His fielding percentage is better than league average. He's been much better than expected at 3B. This might actually help him.
oso diablo
Footballguy
what is Cabrera's range?
Greco
Footballguy
412 feet to left 448 feet to center and 390 to right.
the moops
Footballguy
This may be the exact reason that Cabrera does win this thing. Last 30 days.Trout has only batted 245, with 4 HR, 22 R, 6 RBI, and 5 SB.Cabrera has hit 365 with 11 HR, 22 R and 26 RBI
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
90 MVPs total.
oso diablo
Footballguy
clever. though oddly, i think you answered my question by avoiding it.
Notorious T.R.E.
Showdown!™ Administrator
Agreed. Writers are going to applaud doing "ok" at 3B since he moved to accomodate Prince. He's been better than I expected there.
Greco
Footballguy
Trout is the better of the two when it comes down to debating who is the best baseball player. The most valuable of the two is Cabrera.
the moops
Footballguy
How exactly do you come to this conclusion?
Greco
Footballguy
I beleive the Angels would be in the thick of it with or without Trout. I think the Tigers would be tied with the Royals without Cabrera. I believe Cabrera is more valuable to his team than Trout is to his.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Not sure who Trout's "actual" replacement would be but without Cabrera I'm pretty sure Inge is still playing at third for the Tigers.I beleive the Angels would be in the thick of it with or without Trout. I think the Tigers would be tied with the Royals without Cabrera. I believe Cabrera is more valuable to his team than Trout is to his.
Bogart
Footballguy
Hamilton back in the lineup tonight.
boubucarow
Footballguy
This is a horrible way to think of value. Their value if anything should be based on how much they have aided their team over a typical AAAA player. It isn't in any player's control who their replacement would be. And even if you do access value this way, there is only two outcomes. You are in the playoffs or not. If the Tigers make the playoffs by a game or two, there are plenty of players who won two games for their team. If they don't, it doesn't matter what Cabrera did. Same for Trout.Not sure who Trout's "actual" replacement would be but without Cabrera I'm pretty sure Inge is still playing at third for the Tigers.I beleive the Angels would be in the thick of it with or without Trout. I think the Tigers would be tied with the Royals without Cabrera. I believe Cabrera is more valuable to his team than Trout is to his.
Greco
Footballguy
How do you think of value?This is a horrible way to think of value. Their value if anything should be based on how much they have aided their team over a typical AAAA player. It isn't in any player's control who their replacement would be. And even if you do access value this way, there is only two outcomes. You are in the playoffs or not. If the Tigers make the playoffs by a game or two, there are plenty of players who won two games for their team. If they don't, it doesn't matter what Cabrera did. Same for Trout.Not sure who Trout's "actual" replacement would be but without Cabrera I'm pretty sure Inge is still playing at third for the Tigers.I beleive the Angels would be in the thick of it with or without Trout. I think the Tigers would be tied with the Royals without Cabrera. I believe Cabrera is more valuable to his team than Trout is to his.
boubucarow
Footballguy
I honestly don't know how I would vote each year. I initially prefer to judge a player solely on what he contributed to his team no matter his team's record. Such value is determined by what an average or borderline player at his position would contribute. The advanced statistics attempt to do this but do have their shortcomings especially on the defensive end (although it is getting better) and should not be seen as an end all be all. But it gets complicated because a player that "carries" his team to the playoffs should be rewarded. How I would account for that each year would probably be very inconsistent.As it applies to this year, let's just say for the sake of argument that their overall contribution is very similar regardless of their teams record. You give Cabrera the edge because you think the Angels had the assets to replace Trout better than the Tigers could Cabrera. However, the Tigers are lucky that they play in the one division in the AL they would still have a chance to make the playoffs. If they did not, Cabrera would just be putting up numbers on a team that had no chance to make the playoffs. Can you use context to assign greater value in one train of though but ignore the other that decreases value?In my view, both players are having MVP worthy seasons for teams that are battling for the playoffs. I am leaning Trout since he has had close enough impact as a hitter to let his position value, defense, base running, lack of double plays, and pure visible hustle make up the difference. It seems that the WPA (win probability added) and clutch rating is in Trout's favor as well. If Cabrera is the difference in the last two weeks and Trout is not, I hold the right to change my mind though.How do you think of value?This is a horrible way to think of value. Their value if anything should be based on how much they have aided their team over a typical AAAA player. It isn't in any player's control who their replacement would be. And even if you do access value this way, there is only two outcomes. You are in the playoffs or not. If the Tigers make the playoffs by a game or two, there are plenty of players who won two games for their team. If they don't, it doesn't matter what Cabrera did. Same for Trout.Not sure who Trout's "actual" replacement would be but without Cabrera I'm pretty sure Inge is still playing at third for the Tigers.I beleive the Angels would be in the thick of it with or without Trout. I think the Tigers would be tied with the Royals without Cabrera. I believe Cabrera is more valuable to his team than Trout is to his.
oso diablo
Footballguy
Trout swings at that pitch, at least. 
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Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
And if it was the last pitch of the regular season it might matter in the voting at least .Trout swings at that pitch, at least.
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Eephus
Footballguy
Nov 15
oso diablo
Footballguy
Nate Silver weighs in. He lays out the case for Trout. Not much new here that hasn't already been covered in our discussions, but a nice summary.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
I'd rather see his prediction of Trout's actual chances like he did the elections. That's what he is known for.
scoobus
Footballguy
I thought they were announcing it tonight sometime, link?
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Found out that while he prefers Trout he actually predicts Cabrera will win the award.
They are. My wife says I have a problem with being premature.
dennis.moore
Footballguy
Mike Trout
Don Quixote
Footballguy
I thought it would be a lot closer than it was.
What reporter gave a vote to Raul Ibanez?
What reporter gave a vote to Raul Ibanez?
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
Trout had a great season..but the landslide vote was correct. It was Miggys year.
boubucarow
Footballguy
In any year, either was more than a worthy MVP. What mattered is that voters incorrectly thought more highly of RBI and making the playoffs and less of the impact of base running that basically negated Miggy's offensive advantage and the defense that breaks the near tie in offensive output. IMO the only acceptable argument for Miggy winning was his performance in the last month and a half or so. I can see that argument. But any argument that implies that Miggy was the better player holds no value to me. He was not. Trout was easily the best player in baseball this year.
dennis.moore
Footballguy
Yep, totally agree...The voters got this wrong...
I voted for Trout in the poll, but Cabrera was deserving as well. I hope that the writers that did vote for Cabrera over Trout did not do so just because the Tigers made the playoffs. The Angels actually won more games and would have made it if Trout would have started the season in the bigs.
Mr. Pickles
Footballguy
Trout was robbed.
Eephus
Footballguy
Nate Silver's streak ends six short of DiMaggio
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Silver actually predicted Cabrera would win, he just preferred Trout.
The voters believe helping your team reach the playoffs is an important criteria. The only scenario Trout would have gotten it was if the Angels reached the playoffs and the Tigers did not. I thought it was pretty obvious all along that Price would get the Cy Young and Cabrera would get MVP. It was really not that close.
Dr. Awesome
Footballguy
Had the Angels played in the creampuff division of the AL Central they would have marched into the playoffs, easily. Had the Rangers and A's had an implosion similar to the White Sox, the Angels would have made the playoffs.I've no issue with Miggy winning MVP but there is a very legitimate case to be made for Trout being robbed. And mentioning playoffs as a significant reason is imo ridiculous. The Angels played better - they simply had a tougher division to overcome.
