After School Satan Club denied by school board (1 Viewer)

[Amused to Death]

Thoughts? Copied from the link:

After School Satan Club denied by Northern York school board

The Northern York County School District board denied a resident's request 8-1 to form an After School Satan Club in Northern Elementary School during Tuesday's meeting.

Hundreds from the community filled the auditorium for the board meeting and erupted into applause when the votes were taken on the issue. Only board member Thomas Welch voted in favor of the club.

The club was initially proposed after a district mother, Samantha Groome, began looking for a non-religious alternative to the Joy El Christian club that provided students off-campus, faith-based activities during the school day, serving nine of the 16 school districts in the county.

She said she found the After School Satan Club program, and because of a legal foothold in the 2001 Supreme Court Case ruling "Good News Club v. Milford Central School," all religious clubs are guaranteed to have a "limited public forum" in districts regardless of faith practices.

 

[supermike80]

Depends I guess.  If they aren't sacrificing goats, I say let them believe what they believe.

I wonder how the board would feel about an after school athiests club

 

[Amused to Death]

For context, if the word "Satan" disturbs you here are the Seven Fundamental Tenets of the Satanic Temple. See how they compare to the Ten Commandments.

THERE ARE SEVEN FUNDAMENTAL TENETS

I

One should strive to act with compassion and empathy toward all creatures in accordance with reason.

II

The struggle for justice is an ongoing and necessary pursuit that should prevail over laws and institutions.

III

One’s body is inviolable, subject to one’s own will alone.

IV

The freedoms of others should be respected, including the freedom to offend. To willfully and unjustly encroach upon the freedoms of another is to forgo one's own.

V

Beliefs should conform to one's best scientific understanding of the world. One should take care never to distort scientific facts to fit one's beliefs.

VI

People are fallible. If one makes a mistake, one should do one's best to rectify it and resolve any harm that might have been caused.

VII

Every tenet is a guiding principle designed to inspire nobility in action and thought. The spirit of compassion, wisdom, and justice should always prevail over the written or spoken word.

 

[Jayrod]

As a devout believer in Christ, I disagree with the board's decision on its surface. 

Not sure what grounds they voted on, but to simply deny the clubs approval because it has the name "Satan" in it is not a valid reason and plays right into the hands of the person that made the proposal.

 

[Amused to Death]

Here's more about TST:

The Mission Of The Satanic Temple Is To Encourage Benevolence And Empathy, Reject Tyrannical Authority, Advocate Practical Common Sense, Oppose Injustice, And Undertake Noble Pursuits.

We have publicly confronted hate groups, fought for the abolition of corporal punishment in public schools, applied for equal representation when religious installations are placed on public property, provided religious exemption and legal protection against laws that unscientifically restrict women's reproductive autonomy, exposed harmful pseudo-scientific practitioners in mental health care, organized clubs alongside other religious after-school clubs in schools besieged by proselytizing organizations, and engaged in other advocacy in accordance with our tenets.

 

[belljr]

I'm confused.  It says the mother was looking for a non religious club but the satan club should be allowed because of religious clubs  ruling in 2001?

 

[Amused to Death]

As a devout believer in Christ, I disagree with the board's decision on its surface. 

Not sure what grounds they voted on, but to simply deny the clubs approval because it has the name "Satan" in it is not a valid reason and plays right into the hands of the person that made the proposal.

I've been reading/following The Satanic Temple for a few years. They're a group of atheists who act as a "religious" group to push back against religious favoritism, like putting a statue of Baphomet next to the Ten Commandments on public property and setting up displays next to religious displays on public property around the holidays. They're strong First Amendment advocates.

 

[belljr]

Im also confused because she wanted an after school club at the school but the other club is off of school grounds...

Maybe I'm just an idiot

 

[Kal El]

I find it interesting that the satanic church holds views in opposition to those of the thing they worship. 
 

I find it more interesting that nobody here looked at the acronym of what the club would be.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

In the old days they would have made an after school tv show about this.

 

[Amused to Death]

I find it interesting that the satanic church holds views in opposition to those of the thing they worship. 
 

I find it more interesting that nobody here looked at the acronym of what the club would be.

TST is not the Satanic Church. TST are a group of atheists that advocate the separation of church and state.

They use "Satan" as an extremist name to illustrate the absurdity of favoring one religion over another. You want Christian religion in your politics, then the 1st A says you must include us.

 

[Kal El]

TST is not the Satanic Church. TST are a group of atheists that advocate the separation of church and state.

They use "Satan" as an extremist name to illustrate the absurdity of favoring one religion over another. You want Christian religion in your politics, then the 1st A says you must include us.

Personally, I want the government and the church to not meddle in one another’s business, at all, if possible. 

 

[Amused to Death]

Personally, I want the government and the church to not meddle in one another’s business, at all, if possible. 

Agreed. However if they're going to have Christian after school programs sponsored by a public school, TST says ok, now sponsor one for our group. No favoritism. 

 

[Godsbrother]

So the school board told them to go to hell?

 

[dgreen]

What's the criteria to be a club in this school district?

 

[Boston]

What's the criteria to be a club in this school district?

You can't have horns on your head and like extreme heat.

 

[Kal El]

Agreed. However if they're going to have Christian after school programs sponsored by a public school, TST says ok, now sponsor one for our group. No favoritism. 

From what I’m reading, the club is privately sponsored, and chooses to reach out to students. I could be wrong, but if that is the case, I don’t think the other club really has a lot to stand on.

 

[dgreen]

What's the criteria to be a club in this school district?

https://www.northernpolarbears.com/site/handlers/filedownload.ashx?moduleinstanceid=211&dataid=28674&FileName=Student Activities revised.pdf

Bottom of page 2 starts the section on New Club Procedures.

 

[dgreen]

Agreed. However if they're going to have Christian after school programs sponsored by a public school, TST says ok, now sponsor one for our group. No favoritism. 

I don't see that Joy El club here: https://www.northernpolarbears.com/site/handlers/filedownload.ashx?moduleinstanceid=211&dataid=50402&FileName=ES Student Activities Final 2021-22.pdf

 

[timschochet]

The board’s decision was dumb and wrong but…

I have to say that IMO the use of the word “Satan” is a pretty blatant attempt to troll Christians and religious people. They could have asked for a freethinkers club, or a “Flying Spaghetti Monsters” club, etc, and thus avoided directly attempting to antagonize the community 

 

[Boston]

The board’s decision was dumb and wrong but…

I have to say that IMO the use of the word “Satan” is a pretty blatant attempt to troll Christians and religious people. They could have asked for a freethinkers club, or a “Flying Spaghetti Monsters” club, etc, and thus avoided directly attempting to antagonize the community 

That would be the right move unless your goal is to antagonize the community.

 

[Amused to Death]

The board’s decision was dumb and wrong but…

I have to say that IMO the use of the word “Satan” is a pretty blatant attempt to troll Christians and religious people. They could have asked for a freethinkers club, or a “Flying Spaghetti Monsters” club, etc, and thus avoided directly attempting to antagonize the community 

There's definitely an element of     however the name is irrelevant. The bolded is all that is needed. The 1st A guarantees *all* religions, regardless of name. Include one, include all.

 

[George Costanza]

The board’s decision was dumb and wrong but…

I have to say that IMO the use of the word “Satan” is a pretty blatant attempt to troll Christians and religious people. They could have asked for a freethinkers club, or a “Flying Spaghetti Monsters” club, etc, and thus avoided directly attempting to antagonize the community 

I fully support the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster and their beliefs:

https://www.spaghettimonster.org/

Religious texts tell us that humans evolved from Pirates. Consider that so-called “science experts” would have us believe humans evolved from primates, pointing towards the shared 99% shared DNA between humans and primates. But humans and Pirates share upwards of 99.9% of DNA.

We believe that Pirates were the original Pastafarians and that they were peaceful explorers. It was only due to Christian misinformation that they have an image of outcast criminals today.

No one knows what the afterlife really holds, but we are told FSM Heaven has a Beer Volcano and Stripper Factory.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Thoughts? Copied from the link:

After School Satan Club denied by Northern York school board

The Northern York County School District board denied a resident's request 8-1 to form an After School Satan Club in Northern Elementary School during Tuesday's meeting.

Hundreds from the community filled the auditorium for the board meeting and erupted into applause when the votes were taken on the issue. Only board member Thomas Welch voted in favor of the club.

The club was initially proposed after a district mother, Samantha Groome, began looking for a non-religious alternative to the Joy El Christian club that provided students off-campus, faith-based activities during the school day, serving nine of the 16 school districts in the county.

She said she found the After School Satan Club program, and because of a legal foothold in the 2001 Supreme Court Case ruling "Good News Club v. Milford Central School," all religious clubs are guaranteed to have a "limited public forum" in districts regardless of faith practices.

I'm a Christian and it's a big part of my life. 

I'm in favor of treating all religions equally in a situation like this. 

 

[squistion]

First they came for the After School Satan Club, but I said nothing...

 

[Juxtatarot]

Why would public schools have “off-campus, faith-based activities during the school day” to begin with? 

 

[Amused to Death]

Satanic Temple co-founder Lucien Greaves said the program is to highlight what he believes are inconsistencies with the separation of church and state in America.

“What you can't do is you can't pick and choose between viewpoints, you can't say that you're going to only accept certain religious voices, but not others,” Greaves said. “That is religious discrimination.”

With the club denied, Greaves said the Satanic Temple will likely pursue legal action.

“That's not something we like to do,” Greaves said. “Unfortunately, we have to put up the funds for our own litigation to move forward to make sure that people understand the Constitution, understand what religious liberty actually means, where their authority ends and what's covered under the First Amendment.”

 

[Herb]

Reading through this thread, I have 2 thoughts:

1. The Satanic Temple actually sounds kinda cool

2. This thread should be narrated by Dana Carvey.

mmmm... SATAN!?!??!

 

[Amused to Death]

Reading through this thread, I have 2 thoughts:

1. The Satanic Temple actually sounds kinda cool

2. This thread should be narrated by Dana Carvey.

mmmm... SATAN!?!??!

They're similar to the Freedom From Religion Foundation except where FFRF says "stop doing that", TST says "oh cool, state sponsored religion? Count us in!"

 

[Stealthycat]

I'm a Christian and it's a big part of my life. 

I'm in favor of treating all religions equally in a situation like this. 

I also lean towards our Constitution and if Satan's religion wants to exist fine. But NOT in schools, no way, never, leave all religions OUT of schools period, end of story done

Its parents to teach religion, not schools

 

[Amused to Death]

I also lean towards our Constitution and if Satan's religion wants to exist fine. But NOT in schools, no way, never, leave all religions OUT of schools period, end of story done

Its parents to teach religion, not schools

Agree completely, except TST has nothing to do with Satan.

 

[the moops]

I also lean towards our Constitution and if Satan's religion wants to exist fine. But NOT in schools, no way, never, leave all religions OUT of schools period, end of story done

Its parents to teach religion, not schools

I think the point of this whole thing is to try to get folks like you on board. So kudos. For typically there is a collective yawn from the conservatives whenever it is pointed out that there are christian sponsored school groups or christian led prayer in many many schools around this country

 

[PhillipPhoto]

Why would public schools have “off-campus, faith-based activities during the school day” to begin with? 

People love it when it's "their" religion and you have to get as much indoctrination done while they are young as you can.

The Mormons have built seminaries on private property adjacent to every secondary school in the state of Utah. Over half of high school students enroll in Mormon seminary classes.  The practice is so ingrained that the school districts designate a location for a seminary on their architectural site plans for new schools.  Mormons piggyback on the public schools, which have adopted a program of released time so that students can take a period or two out of their schedule to attend religion classes. 

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

People love it when it's "their" religion and you have to get as much indoctrination done while they are young as you can.

The Mormons have built seminaries on private property adjacent to every secondary school in the state of Utah. Over half of high school students enroll in Mormon seminary classes.  The practice is so ingrained that the school districts designate a location for a seminary on their architectural site plans for new schools.  Mormons piggyback on the public schools, which have adopted a program of released time so that students can take a period or two out of their schedule to attend religion classes. 

Interesting, had no idea about any of this.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the Northern York County School District board to vote against appearing open-minded and inclusive.

 

[BladeRunner]

For context, if the word "Satan" disturbs you here are the Seven Fundamental Tenets of the Satanic Temple. See how they compare to the Ten Commandments.

THERE ARE SEVEN FUNDAMENTAL TENETS

I

One should strive to act with compassion and empathy toward all creatures in accordance with reason.

II

The struggle for justice is an ongoing and necessary pursuit that should prevail over laws and institutions.

III

One’s body is inviolable, subject to one’s own will alone.

IV

The freedoms of others should be respected, including the freedom to offend. To willfully and unjustly encroach upon the freedoms of another is to forgo one's own.

V

Beliefs should conform to one's best scientific understanding of the world. One should take care never to distort scientific facts to fit one's beliefs.

VI

People are fallible. If one makes a mistake, one should do one's best to rectify it and resolve any harm that might have been caused.

VII

Every tenet is a guiding principle designed to inspire nobility in action and thought. The spirit of compassion, wisdom, and justice should always prevail over the written or spoken word.

Well, to be honest, they are SATANISTS - they follow Satan.  Otherwise known as The Great Deceiver, amongst his many names.

This is are not the real tenants of Satanism.

 

[The Big Donkey]

The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the Northern York County School District board to vote against appearing open-minded and inclusive.

The Karate kid beat Jack Butler.

 

[Amused to Death]

Well, to be honest, they are SATANISTS - they follow Satan.  Otherwise known as The Great Deceiver, amongst his many names.

This is are not the real tenants of Satanism.

Well, they're not Satanists, the don't follow Satan. They worship no deity. They are atheists. Read beyond their name - like the school board refused to do.

The Mission Of The Satanic Temple Is To Encourage Benevolence And Empathy, Reject Tyrannical Authority, Advocate Practical Common Sense, Oppose Injustice, And Undertake Noble Pursuits.

 

[joffer]

Russell’s Teapot Club has a nice ring to it

 

[BladeRunner]

Well, they're not Satanists, the don't follow Satan. They worship no deity. They are atheists. Read beyond their name - like the school board refused to do.

The Mission Of The Satanic Temple Is To Encourage Benevolence And Empathy, Reject Tyrannical Authority, Advocate Practical Common Sense, Oppose Injustice, And Undertake Noble Pursuits.

Satanists who don't follow Satan?  Wut? 

I get what you're saying  but no way do I believe a Satanist in anything.  Whoever they have doing their marketing is doing a TERRIBLE job.

The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing others that his followers don't follow him.

 

[Amused to Death]

Satanists who don't follow Satan?  Wut? 

I get what you're saying  but no way do I believe a Satanist in anything.  Whoever they have doing their marketing is doing a TERRIBLE job.

The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing others that his followers don't follow him.

Don't confuse them with the Church of Satan. Regardless, even Satanism is a recognized religion. When you allow one religion, you must allow all.

But again, TST has nothing to do with "Satanism". They exist only to expose hypocrisy when religions are given a favored status.

 

[Stealthycat]

I think the point of this whole thing is to try to get folks like you on board. So kudos. For typically there is a collective yawn from the conservatives whenever it is pointed out that there are christian sponsored school groups or christian led prayer in many many schools around this country

I don't believe in schools teaching morals/ethics/sexuality/religion or anything like that because if its allowed, then the teachers beliefs or Govt's beliefs will be more important than the parents and I don't support that.

If they can teach satan clubs, then I should be able to teach white supremacy and radical muslim ideas right ? 

 

[the moops]

I don't believe in schools teaching morals/ethics/sexuality/religion or anything like that because if its allowed, then the teachers beliefs or Govt's beliefs will be more important than the parents and I don't support that.

If they can teach satan clubs, then I should be able to teach white supremacy and radical muslim ideas right ? 

They can't and shouldn't do any of these things. That's the point

 

[Stealthycat]

They can't and shouldn't do any of these things. That's the point

the problem is allowing anything to begin with - purge all of it IMO because if you let X club or Y club you're going to have to allow A-Z clubs, all of them

but that's across society as well - hypocrisy runs deep

 

[Amused to Death]

If they can teach satan clubs, then I should be able to teach white supremacy and radical muslim ideas right ? 

Good thing no one wanted to do that.

 

[Stealthycat]

Good thing no one wanted to do that.

I want to start a Jesus club (has nothing to do with Jesus) ..... you buying ?  A Satanic club that has nothing to do with Satan is just about as believable but you do you, I'll do me, and we'll both agree religion needs OUT of schools 

 

[Joe Schmo]

I don't believe in schools teaching morals/ethics/sexuality/religion or anything like that because if its allowed, then the teachers beliefs or Govt's beliefs will be more important than the parents and I don't support that.

If they can teach satan clubs, then I should be able to teach white supremacy and radical muslim ideas right ? 

The After School Satan Clubs meet at select public schools where Good News Clubs also operate. Trained educators provide activities and learning opportunities, which students are free to engage in, or they may opt to explore other interests that may be aided by available resources. The environment is open and parents are welcome to participate. While the classes are designed to promote intellectual and emotional development in accordance with TST's tenets, no proselytization or religious instruction takes place.

AFTER SCHOOL SATAN CLUB MISSION

Proselytization is not our goal, and we’re not interested in converting children to Satanism. After School Satan Clubs will focus on free inquiry and rationalism, the scientific basis for which we know what we know about the world around us.

We prefer to give children an appreciation of the natural wonders surrounding them, not a fear of everlasting other-worldly horrors.

More here:

https://thesatanictemple.com/pages/after-school-satan

 

[Joe Schmo]

And speaking of your concern SC and referencing back to  the Mormon fact:

https://www.rawstory.com/2017/01/after-school-satan-club-starts-in-mormon-country-thanks-to-christian-groups/

Blythe explained that these clubs don't actually worship Satan. Instead, they work to teach children the importance of science, critical thinking and understand the world around them.

"Kids naturally have that ability to be curious and question things," Blythe said. "We're basically just saying we should bolster that."

 

[Amused to Death]

I want to start a Jesus club (has nothing to do with Jesus) ..... you buying ?  A Satanic club that has nothing to do with Satan is just about as believable but you do you, I'll do me, and we'll both agree religion needs OUT of schools 

Honest question - do you read the thread before posting? Do you know anything about The Satanic Temple? Or are you just judging by their name?

 

[Stealthycat]

Proselytization is not our goal, and we’re not interested in converting children to Satanism.

sure

and Catholic church had a policy to never abuse boys - did you know? how'd that work out? 

but seriously - a Satanic church that doesn't want Satan worshipers .... please, please tell me ya'll aint buying that.