Mavis
Footballguy
Showing sympathy for a murderer, stay classy. I dont know how sharing a link is insensitive or offends you, but some people are easily offended. Shoot the messenger, eh? I hope you were as offended at Odin Lloyds death.
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Aaron Hernandez Kills Himself - And according to the law, is no longer a murderer. (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Mavis
- Start date
Hankmoody
Footballguy
I'm showing sympathy for the people that loved Aaron Hernandez and lost him. He had a family, a child, people who loved him, and they didn't sign up for the pain they are enduring over his decisions and his loss. I'm also not the one that edited the title to emphasize the gay lover aspect, as if that's some kind of additional wring he's committed. But you just keep on being who you are, I'm sure you'll be successful with that.
Mavis
Footballguy
Odin Lloyd had people who loved him. I edited the title to add what the headline was in the link and the update. You are insulting me over sharing news of a murderers updated suicide, you should think about that as you sympathize for a murderer but have no problem insulting me for sharing a link and updating a thread. Let me know how those morals go for you.
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
squistion
Footballguy
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Hankmoody
Footballguy
And I sympathized for Lloyd's family too. Sad you must pull out the strawman to try to justify your behavior, I have never once supported Hernandez or what he did, only those many victims in this story.
And you are not worth my time. 62 posts to ignore, that's a record even for me. Congrats on that.
mikel2014
Footballguy
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
I think it's there's enough going on that there could be a 30 for 30 and a movie. Hearing all the details that have been released so far is already hard to believe and you know there's going to be even more. I know the whole story is a terrible situation but stories like this always fascinate me. I find it very interesting how serial killers, drug king pins and mafia types came to be who they are. Seems like fiction but it exists all around us.
Actually all but the child signed up for it. It's not like this act is his only bad deed. He's been a bad apple since college at least. If you are sticking by his side and he's hanging out with losers, you signed up.
Gustavo Fring
Footballguy
The only thing this guy deserves is a cold casket, at best. Everything else about him needs to go away and strike his name from all sports records and accomplishments. 30 for 30s and everything else just glorifies him and he doesn't deserve an ounce of attention for the ####ty person that we was when we was walking this planet.
mikel2014
Footballguy
We're approaching the OJ: Made in America level of fascination. That documentary was incredible. Not nearly the level of national attention as OJ but this saga has a tale of its own.
Hankmoody
Footballguy
His mother, his brother, his entire family. None of them signed up for this. Even his fiance has known him since childhood.
Mavis
Footballguy
Strawman to justify my behavior? As you sympathize for the family of Hernandez while you speak nothing of Lloyd's? Thanks for ignoring me so I dont have to ignore you. Trying to make me look like a bad guy for sharing a link while you sympathise for a murderer. Am I on a hidden camera show? Not for nothing but out of those 62 posts you referred, I think 50 likes. Does that get a congrats? You are really stressing yourself out for a guy who didnt even care about his family or himself as much as you.
That's saying she signed up for it. She could have walked away a long time before the murders. She didn't. She signed up.
Rhythmdoctor
Footballguy
Can we stop using the term straw man at least? JFC. There's no term that gets misused as much as that one. That and Occam's Razor. When I see either used I want to throw up in my mouth.
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
Why should that make a difference?
Because the complaint was aimed at how badly the previous post was going to damage the family and friends of Hernandez.
squistion
Footballguy
Which is completely irrelevant to him saying that he was "showing sympathy for the people that loved Aaron Hernandez and lost him"
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
Bossman
Footballguy
... and while we're at it, lets try to be more sympathetic for Osama Bin Laden.
Regardless of 9/11 ... he had a family, children, and people who loved him.
Mavis
Footballguy
Take it a step further, in some regard can it be considered some of his family enabled him and can over look his murderers ways? Lets look at Hernandez fiance is the first to come to mind. You dont think he confided in her? That she deep down knew he did it? While I cant be certain, I have no problem assuming that myself.
FWIW, I do recall his fiance taking things out by a garbage bag when Hernandez was being investigated. So why should I feel sorry for his fiance? I feel sorry she did not have the sense to leave a murderer, instead she stood by her murdering fiance's side. Why am I supposed to sympathise with her? She took his name after he was charged and still said "OK I love you after all the evidence" showed he was a murderer? He murdered her sisters boyfriend. Hernandez fiance cared enough about her sister, to stand by the man convicted of the cold blooded killing of her sisters man, Odin Lloyd. She deserves respect? I dont really believe so, but if others choose to, so be it. People loving someone has nothing to do with if the criminal or the situation deserves respect. Hernandez didnt even respect his family and friends who loved him. His fiance may not be a murderer, but...
I am about to reference a TV show, while it isnt real life, its a comparison - Carmella Soprano was not a murderer but she knew some of the bad things her husband did and looked the other way, was she an innocent victim? Should we have sympathy for her if "The Sopranos" ended the way some believe and Tony was offed? Should we show sympathy for Tonys family? I curiously want to know the answer to this. I in no way have ever thought or will think Hernandez fiance is innocent in this.
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nittanylion
Footballguy
Love is blind, man. That's a tragedy in and of itself...
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
Wow this is stupidBossman said:
Bossman
Footballguy
Well if not Bin Laden then what about Hitler?
So what if these people willingly ended lives of others that didn't deserve to die.
These killers still have family, children and loved ones that we should all feel bad for and we should show sympathy and respect instead of calling these people what they are .... cold blooded killers with no regard for the lives of others ... or their families and loved ones.
Ask yourself this: If Hernandez killed your son, brother, friend ... would you still have sympathy for him or his family?
ghostguy123
Footballguy
So what was the point of him spending all that time and money to be acquitted of these other murders?
Jello_Biafra
Footballguy
Once he was acquitted of the other murders, he can then kill himself, and because his original case was awaiting appeal, he dies, technically, a free man. Which means his family can now go after the money the Pats would have owed had he been found not guilt to begin with. Perfect plan to at least try to set up his kid financially.
I'm not sure on any of this but I don't recall a murder trial for a dead man. So if his goal was to die before his Odin Lloyd appeal was hurt I don't think he needed to wait for this last trial to conclude.
Also if money was his goal all he did with this second trial was burn through more money.
More likely, to me anyway, was these latest trials gave him the chance to get out of his cell. To communicate with people outside prison walls. To be in the news, feel relevant again. Once that was over it was just back in the 10 by 7 for life and it was just to much to take. And I say this and would also add I don't know it's accurate he planned this for weeks as the leak said yesterday, might be he just mentally broke in the middle of a the night and wanted out the only way he could get it.
PatsWillWin
Footballguy
You know what would've help set up his kid financially? Not pissing money on high priced lawyers to defend a double homicide charge when he was already sentenced to life in prison. Also, playing a game for millions instead of being a thug would've helped too. If anyone thinks Hernandez gave a #### about his family, I think you're nuts.
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Snorkelson
Footballguy
Just nitpicking, but didn't his fiancée marry him before his trial so she would have spousal privilege? And didn't she help destroy evidence?
Maybe that was ray rice that got married now that I think about it...
Maybe that was ray rice that got married now that I think about it...
Baloney Sandwich
Footballguy
ghostguy123
Footballguy
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Why not?
ETA: Actually, it's pretty clear that his family won't get any money from the Patriots since they already settled a grievance from him in the matter and his contract was terminated for "conduct unbecoming" not from his conviction.
BUT, his daughter will likely be entitled to his NFL pension now and his suicide also makes it much less likely that the family of his victim can sue. So his suicide definitely provides some money for his family.
But it seems unlikely that that was the primary reason for his suicide.
http://www.theroot.com/speculation-did-aaron-hernandez-kill-himself-to-make-s-1794517407
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Bronco Billy
Footballguy
This sounds like something someone cooked up in a bar after being overserved at least twice.
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
Well, I stand corrected. Apparently there is legal precedent to vacate the conviction in MA if the convicted commits suicide while the case is under appeal. How high minded of the state.
Baeddel Moon
Footballguy
This is part of the English common law that is the basis for jurisprudence in the US. Unless a state has specifically passed a law saying otherwise, convictions being appealed at the time of death will be overturned, in the vast majority of the cases saving court and government resources from a meaningless trial. So yeah, high minded for sure.
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
I think you and I differ on whether these actions are meaningless. Wasn't the person already convicted? Why should their own action to take their life absolve them of guilt? Where is the justice in that? There are consequences to the victims, their families, and financial considerations to say the least - with a lot of potential damage to people who have been already victimized by this person.
Baeddel Moon
Footballguy
I literally said in the vast majority of cases. Like the cost of a single day of court is more than most people even have to their name, when you take into account the lawyers, judge, jury, stenographers, etc. (and those court cost would come back on either uninvolved family or tax payers.) That's why the law would default to letting it go. And it's not like the family of Lloyd has no recourse in this. They just have to sue Hernandez's estate and prove the murder and would not have to meet the same stringent "beyond a reasonable doubt" burden of proof, but rather the judge deciding which story is more plausible.
While I understand anger at the actions taken, I don't think this is the place to talk about what role justice plays in our correctional system.
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
The state by its action just changed the onus of the burden of proof. A criminal conviction would carry its weight of meeting the preponderance of evidence required in civil court. Now the plaintiff has to go through the process of making its case.
That also sets aside the court doing its job, which is to affirm the verdict until an appeal process overturns it. Now it simply negates the system of justice and the findings of the jury because it is inconvenient. Hey, if that damages the victims, their families, and any affected by negative financial consequences? Geez, sorry, but this was expedient.
And please don't argue the expense to the state. Governments piss away orders of magnitude of more money in waste and duplicity than these appeals could ever cost to play out.
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Baeddel Moon
Footballguy
The state took no action. The state is much more interested in control and order than concepts like justice. And if you can't see that designing laws around corner cases like millionaires committing murders then killing themselves is not in the public good, then we should probably stop here.
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
What do you mean it takes no action? It would be vacating a verdict, thereby nullifying the jury and the judicial process. That's pretty egregious IMO. It sounds like you feel otherwise.
And this is not the only high profile case involved in this action.
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RBM
Footballguy
You're over here too??
Baeddel Moon
Footballguy
The original verdict is not vacated. If Hernandez had not appealed the case before he killed himself, this result doesn't happen. The state has nothing to gain from pursuing a case against a dead man who's sentence has already ended. Not to mention the pitfalls and dangers of pursuing such a case, such as how to try someone who does not have the ability to speak on their own behalf, which could easily result in a mistrial, along with the emotional trauma that another trial that the family of the victim will be compelled to be involved with.
If that was truly the line, Hernandez killed himself for what, a 5%-10% chance that his wife and daughter keep some money that is not eaten up by all the associate court costs? If that was his foremost concern, he could have done this before the first verdict against him came down and saved all of that energy and humiliation. That's why I call this a corner case. How many prisoners are eating a death sentence for no judgment rendered in their case? Not many, I would think. And the harm done to the family by the suicide is almost completely mitigated by the likely ruling of a civil court that has been expedited extremely now that the criminal phase of the proceedings have passed. (Which will likely mean they see more of Hernandez's money intact than they would otherwise.)
