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A. Brown returning punts.....so dumb. (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter eoMMan
- Start date
Buffaloes
Footballguy
Franknbeans
Footballguy
he wants to do it 
Bills_Fan11
Footballguy
Been asking for proof of higher injury rate on punt returns since I was logging on to Prodigy. Nobody's ever shown it to me.
jvdesigns2002
Footballguy
I don't have the data--but I assure you that the injury rate of somebody returning a punt is far higher than the injury rate of somebody on the sidelines watching the punt get returned by somebody else.
SproutDaddy
Footballguy
Nobody cares about your fantasy team.
SproutDaddy
Footballguy
Bills_Fan11
Footballguy
SproutDaddy
Footballguy
Hmmmmm.......Brian Mitchell, Sproles, Hester, the human joystick, Deion......... Should I continue?
mr roboto
Footballguy
Almost literally it represents an infinite increase in injury probability.
SproutDaddy
Footballguy
No more than lining up at wr or rb. How many times were those guys seriously injured doing it.
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
Why does that matter? They're not wrong. Returning punts is inherently more dangerous than not returning punts, period.
One he does better than almost anyone in the game and one he is just another guy at.
Pittsburgh could likely have 5 other players on the roster be as competent as him at returning punts.
Also it's simple math that risk goes up when playing. You shouldn't be worrying about that but I am not putting star players in positions to get hurt on plays where someone else could do just as good of job.
For instance why not have Rodgers hold the ball on field goals for Mason Crosby? I mean the fake FG is more of a danger than for defenses.
buck naked
Footballguy
Considering how poor of a thrower Vick is these days, Pitt might as well use Brown on punts.
SproutDaddy
Footballguy
I'm only seeing that as an assumption here. No proof has been shown. In fact, those guys represent the argument that it isn't. Freak accidents can happen on any given play. I'd say it's more prone to happen to less conditioned players.
Buffaloes
Footballguy
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
I don't get what you're missing here. If you are returning a punt, you might get hurt. It doesn't matter what the odds are, because if you're standing on the sideline, you have 0% chance of getting hurt unless Tonya Harding is around. It's simple math.
spider321
Footballguy
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
Sure. And Brown has a much higher chance to change the game at WR than he does at PR, so that's factored in. There's a reason the vast majority of teams stop letting their studs return punts eventually. Because not returning punts is automatically safer than returning punts, even if returning punts isn't that dangerous.
This is a conservative league. Last thing any HC wants is to be tarred and feathered because he got the game's best WR injured on a 7-yard punt return. Didn't that happen to Dez earlier in his career?
tone1oc
Footballguy
We may be underestimating the big play ability of Brown on punts though. Sure a number of people could safely return a punt for 10 yards, but their offense was struggling and the injury risk you could argue is worth a game breaking play. He almost broke one off in OT
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Buffaloes
Footballguy
so do you think there is a higher injury risk in playing Brown on a PR than on an average offensive play?
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DaveGrumbles
Footballguy
Fans worried about football players getting injured playing football...so dumb.
Antonio Brown takes up street racing? Antonio Brown starts his own fight club? Antonio Brown decides to eat light bulbs to amuse his friends? Antonio Brown hangs out with high school girls in his off time?
Those are all dumb.
Being the punt returner because he feels like he's better with the ball in his hands than anyone else on the team and his coach agrees...not really that dumb.
Antonio Brown takes up street racing? Antonio Brown starts his own fight club? Antonio Brown decides to eat light bulbs to amuse his friends? Antonio Brown hangs out with high school girls in his off time?
Those are all dumb.
Being the punt returner because he feels like he's better with the ball in his hands than anyone else on the team and his coach agrees...not really that dumb.
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SproutDaddy
Footballguy
SproutDaddy
Footballguy
Killtops
Footballguy
If your purpose in coaching your football team is to put the ball in the hands of your best player less in hopes of him not getting hurt you're probably not going to do very well. As a Ravens fan, I'm terrified of 84 anywhere on the field with the ball.
The Ravens used to let Ed Reed return punts when they needed a spark. Special players like that make special plays when they're needed most.
The Ravens used to let Ed Reed return punts when they needed a spark. Special players like that make special plays when they're needed most.
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
When they needed a spark, sure. But not all the time. Desean Jackson has been used in a similar way.
Adam Harstad
Moderator
Why does Antonio Brown have a higher chance to change the game at WR than he does at PR? He averages 9.8 yards per punt return vs. 13.6 yards per reception, which isn't a huge difference. He averages 9.8 yards per punt return vs. 4.3 yards per route run (just this season- his career value is much lower). Yes, I know that it's not exactly an apples-to-oranges comparison, because that per-punt-return average doesn't include fair catches, but Antonio Brown isn't going to get injured on a fair catch, (whereas he might get injured running a route on a play where he's not targeted).
And all of this ignores counterfactual benefits to having him return punts. Antonio Brown is much less likely to fumble on a punt return than a replacement-level returner. Each of those fumbles that never happen provide a big benefit to the Steelers, too.
As to your last point... you're right that it's a conservative league. I find it weird that this point is being deployed to argue that the league got it right. Aren't they kind of known for... you know... being *too* conservative?
I think more teams should use their stars on returns. Stars are stars because they get more yards at each opportunity. Each opportunity is a chance for injury. But you don't respond to that by giving your stars fewer opportunities. You hold your nose, accept the risk, and then let them do what makes them so special.
Since 2011, Antonio Brown has handled 91 punt returns. Over that time, Pittsburgh's punt return unit was worth 18 points over replacement, according to Football Outsiders. That's not a bad tradeoff.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
Probably because they are good at it and because field position and not turning the ball over actually matters in real football. Just take your "magic football" glasses off for a second.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
apalmer
Footballguy
87% of statistics are inherently made up and are 4x dumber than the truth. BTW, in case you missed it, Wheaton got hurt last night blocking. Obviously, the Steelers need to make sure AB isn't on the field any time he isn't going to catch a pass so the same thing doesn't happen to him.
apalmer
Footballguy
And if you're standing on the sideline you can't help your team win. If you're returning a punt, you can. Unless your goal is to make fantasy geeks happy instead of winning games, it's simple math.
packer_junkie
Footballguy
He literally was inches away from breaking a game winning punt return to end the game after Vick, Scobee, and Tomlin effed it all up. Isn't the purpose of football to win?
LittlePhatty
Footballguy
I'm not an NFL coach, but I do watch football on TV and I'm capable of making il-informed opinions. So I think the Steelers should limit Antonio Brown's workload to only the plays in which they would like to score a touchdown. And those would include: all offensive plays, and all kick/punt returns.
fbelange
Footballguy
Don't have a single one of those guys rostered.... just an observation.
As a Giants fan I'll never forget how that ruined the potential of our best franchise CB's knee. He was never the same
Uncle Grandpa
Footballguy
Hey. I get points for punt return yardage, so quit your complaining!
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
Pretty small sample size. Nobody has shown that Sehorn was more likely to be hurt returning than playing CB other than to say it happened. Where do you draw the line? Should Sehorn have always been on the bench when it was 3rd and 25 when the opponent was on their own 10 in the first half? I mean most of the time the offensive team runs it or throws a little dink pass to the RB. Why risk him getting hurt? How about in obvious running situations? Should Sehorn have been benched there too?
The formula is simple. Does player x have enough value over player y returning punts/kicks to offset the small injury and added fatigue risk?
One fumble can lose a game. One punt return TD can win a game. One game can keep a team out of the playoffs.
tone1oc
Footballguy
Adam Harstad
Moderator
Or play in return yardage leagues! I'm certainly not complaining about Brown's game last night.parasaurolophus said:
tone1oc
Footballguy
Let punt return = p, receptions = r, routes run = u, and injury probability = xWas your point that 1 punt return = 4 punt returns?tone1oc said:
WR = r/u(x)
PR = p(x)
Roughly, as I said
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packer_junkie
Footballguy
Gosh, why in the heck would the Eagles have Darren Sproles return punts? I mean what could they possibly gain from that?? Not like he returned a punt for a TOUCHDOWN last week, giving his team all the momentum in a a game they ended up winning by 7 points, or the value of a punt return touchdown.
Short Corner
Footballguy
tone1oc said:
This never gets old. Just make up some numbers and run with it. The spirirt of LHUCKS will never die here.
Short Corner
Footballguy
Yeah I never understand why the elite CBs don't just kneel down after making an INT. Why risk injury returning the ball?
