Hankmoody
Footballguy
Not necessarily. That's the dream of course, but getting Deshaun Watson or Kirk Cousins level play puts us competitive with anyone.
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2024 Las Vegas Raiders thread - waiting to see some football! (11 Viewers)
- Thread starter Hankmoody
- Start date
Hankmoody
Footballguy
Yeah like I said it's minor at this point but just another (albeit small) red flag on a dude that's not devoid of them.
DocHolliday
Footballguy
Count me as another fan that does not want to see giving up 3 firsts to take a chance on a QB. Moving up 2 or 3 spots if your guy is available sounds much better for long term success. If the coveted QBs are gone or too steep in price, it won’t hurt to build the trenches and the D while taking swings at QBs.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
I'm not convinced Watson is, but I agree with you about Cousins.
It’s going to be interesting to see what Fields ends up going for. Now that it’s pretty clear Chicago will draft Williams, there will be a bidding war for Fields.
The Raiders can offer anything they like but Chicago can always lie and say, “A 2nd won’t cut it, we’ve already been offered a 1st.” It’s going to be an elaborate, complicated game of chicken.
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
I feel exactly the same way. Maybe deuce will take him under his trapezius.
massraider
Footballguy
I totally agree.
And Cousins is a perfect example of kind of the minimum you want for a long term QB. You can win playoff games with the guy.
But you don't need to trade multiple picks to get Cousins upside. We can get a guy like Nix, and he is physically capable of doing what Goff or Cousins or Dak is doing.
ICON211
Footballguy
Yes, a Watson or Cousins type would make them competitive, but you don't give up multiple first round picks for that level of play. If you're giving up multiple firsts you're looking for and you better get elite level QB play. If you just want Cousins/Watson level play just stay where you are and don't give up the picks.
32 Counter Pass
Footballguy
I look forward to the reaction in this thread when the Raiders decide to go into training with AOC and a cheap QB, like Howell. 
It could happen. Still better than what we had in 2023.I look forward to the reaction in this thread when the Raiders decide to go into training with AOC and a cheap QB, like Howell.
DocHolliday
Footballguy
I would be extremely surprised if LV goes into training camp without a rookie QB along with AOC and a FA.I look forward to the reaction in this thread when the Raiders decide to go into training with AOC and a cheap QB, like Howell.
32 Counter Pass
Footballguy
You and about 28 other teams.
ZADO
Footballguy
What percentage of 1st round qbs are busts?
Over the last 15 years, there are an average of three first-round QB picks per year. So according to our assessment, only 0.7 of those go on to become home-run picks. Meanwhile, at least 1.3 per year prove to be clear misses .Apr 27, 2023
Over the last 15 years, there are an average of three first-round QB picks per year. So according to our assessment, only 0.7 of those go on to become home-run picks. Meanwhile, at least 1.3 per year prove to be clear misses .Apr 27, 2023
I get the feeling there’s enough hive mind and brain cells in this organization now that they won’t be mortgaging the future on the hope that one of the 3 QBs is a generational talent.
The most logical thing to do is:
1: try to trade for Fields for anything less than a first rounder. If they’re asking for a 1st then it’s a no for me.
2. Just go get Russ on a vet minimum salary and stick it to the Donks.
3. Stay at #13 and build the trenches and draft a Penix, Nix, Rattler later on.
Because he's getting like 40 million from Denver.
DocHolliday
Footballguy
Denver is stupid.
ICON211
Footballguy
From what i understand whatever he signs for next year just gets offset by what Denver is paying him. It would only matter if he signed for more than what Denver is paying him, which obviously is not going to happen. He only hurts the teams he signs with next year by signing for anything more than the minimum. Not sure how all this works if he was to get more than a one year deal though.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Though I have been a big proponent around here for trading a 2nd for Fields.... I am officially out on that now.
A friend of mine and I were watching our girls play volleyaball this weekend and chatting.... since these tournaments are several hours a day we had a lot of chatting. Eventually he mentions that his neighbor's son plays Oline for the Bears. Through that conversation he mentioned that Fields blames everything on everyone else and never takes responsibility. For me, that is a huge red flag (assuming true based on a single source that isn't direct) for two reasons- 1) You can't lead that way and leading is a big part of being a QB. 2) You can't get better that way. You need to own areas that you are deficient and work on them.
It would only make sense that Getsy would have a real good grasp of whether that is true or not. I couldn't see us go after Fields if that were the case with that insider knowledge. Or maybe it isn't true and again Getsy should know.
A friend of mine and I were watching our girls play volleyaball this weekend and chatting.... since these tournaments are several hours a day we had a lot of chatting. Eventually he mentions that his neighbor's son plays Oline for the Bears. Through that conversation he mentioned that Fields blames everything on everyone else and never takes responsibility. For me, that is a huge red flag (assuming true based on a single source that isn't direct) for two reasons- 1) You can't lead that way and leading is a big part of being a QB. 2) You can't get better that way. You need to own areas that you are deficient and work on them.
It would only make sense that Getsy would have a real good grasp of whether that is true or not. I couldn't see us go after Fields if that were the case with that insider knowledge. Or maybe it isn't true and again Getsy should know.
Well he did publicly blame the coaches for his sub par play so it kind of lines up.
But like I’ve mentioned before, he’s a young guy. He’ll make mistakes, say dumb things and the like. Maybe he grows up, I don’t know. Would you pass if it were two 3s or a 3rd and next year’s 4th or something along those lines? I wouldn’t.
massraider
Footballguy
Whenever I saw him, he never was making a simple, easy play.
Good QBs get the ball, and hit the simple slant when it's there. The simple, easy, gimme plays. None of that with Fields.
I'd prefer we found another option.
And I was going to say if the price is right, but I think I would rather get a Wilson, and a Nix/Penix in the 2nd, and AOC. If McCarthy is still in play, does trading for Fields shut that down? If we trade a conditional 3rd for him, we probably aren't drafting a QB of note. For Fields? Ehhh.
Everyone KNOWS now that McCarthy won't be there at 13, no one knows yet.
ICON211
Footballguy
Right. Getsy seems to want rhythm and timing and that isn't Fields. I would be shocked if they made an offer for Fields.
kaso
Footballguy
But does he know Zado's cousin?
krsone21
Footballguy
I'm personally starting to come around on signing Wilson to the vet minimum for a year and trade up a bit into the end of the first round to draft a QB at the end of the first round to get the 5th year option or even the with their second round pick if they like Rattler. I don't know if Rattler would last to their 3rd round pick. That way they can use the 1st round pick on a top pick for defense or offensive line.
With 3 free agents on the offensive line it wouldn't hurt to draft a top RT in the 1st round.
Hankmoody
Footballguy
Denver would owe him $39M if they cut him but they have what's called offset language in the contract. That means anything a new team pays Denver doesn't have to up to that $39M. He can't double-dip that money like he would without the offset language. In order for Wilson to make more than the $39M they would have to find a team that's willing to pay him the entire thing +.
What will likely make Wilson's decision isn't 2024 money but what/if/any future terms and guarantees look like.
LawFitz
Footballguy
This is where I am leaning unless JJM falls to 13 or some spot close enough to where it would only take a toe and not and arm or leg to trade up to get him. No need to panic, tho, with so many stud OT options available this year and a good cross section between that position's value and the Raiders fairly extreme team need.
As for Fields, I'm actually glad the Raiders have Getsy for that reason if nothing else. Either Getsy believes or he doesn't, and either way, I defer to his insight.
Hankmoody
Footballguy
With three FA on the OL we need to sign 4 OL. The draft is about getting the best player, not filling needs. If a draft pick needs to sit and learn and develop we need to allow them that time rather than rush them in because our starters are crap. I'd rather take an impact DT like Murphy or shutdown CB. Stud WR would be a dream but the top three will be long gone and after that it's probably best to wait on later rounds, this is another loaded WR draft and there are always steals to be had later - I wouldn't mind a mid-round shot at Jerry's kid. If OT is the best available sure, draft him, but don't do it because we failed to bolster up in FA. There are only 2-3 OT I would want to take there.
Frankly, I want us to trade down to mid 20's and add picks, that's going to be a value area to draft in. I think there's a huge list between 10-25 that could go any which way.
The Raiders have hired JoJo Wooden, former Chargers executive, as their new Senior Director of Player Personnel. With 11 years of experience in San Diego/Los Angeles, he rejoins Tom Telesco.
Another new guy in the building. Must be preparing for the inevitable loss of Champ to a GM job in the next year or so.
Another new guy in the building. Must be preparing for the inevitable loss of Champ to a GM job in the next year or so.
Hankmoody
Footballguy
My top 13 for us in no particular order aside from the tiers:
No chance we see them:
Caleb
Maye
MHJ
Nabors
Within the realm of hoping:
Daniels - as close to no chance as possible, but he's also got slip potential being a 6 year guy that took 5 to get fully going. Might be an affordable trade-up.
McCarthy - wildcard at this point only due to the importance of the position. His skill level at TE would make him a day 3 guy but teams will dream of his ceiling.
Odunze - highly unlikely, but someone has to slide and the depth at WR might have teams looking at more premium positions.
Alt
Murphy
Turner
Latua
Arnold
That's only 12 with the obvious omission of Bowers but I am concerned being able to use him and Mayer correctly. He won't make it to 13 anyway, so it's not relevant for this list, but it does push one of those other names down to us.
Trading down brings the next tier - this is where I want to be, pick up assets and grab one of these guys instead:
Brian Thomas Jr
Keon Coleman - I am a believer, many are not.
Xavier Worthy - he's gonna wreck defenses, how often depends on how well a team figures out how to use him and health
Amarius Mims
Taliese Fuaga
Olumuyiwa Fashanu - fun fact, my first manager in my tech career was named Olumuyiwa, great guy.
JC Lathan
Jer'Zhan Newton
Jared Verse
Cooper DeJean
Kool-aid McKinstry
Nate Wiggins
That's 25 names with another slew that are being lumped at this same range that I just don't know enough about - Mitchell, Fautanu, Franklin, Chop Robinson, Trice.
No chance we see them:
Caleb
Maye
MHJ
Nabors
Within the realm of hoping:
Daniels - as close to no chance as possible, but he's also got slip potential being a 6 year guy that took 5 to get fully going. Might be an affordable trade-up.
McCarthy - wildcard at this point only due to the importance of the position. His skill level at TE would make him a day 3 guy but teams will dream of his ceiling.
Odunze - highly unlikely, but someone has to slide and the depth at WR might have teams looking at more premium positions.
Alt
Murphy
Turner
Latua
Arnold
That's only 12 with the obvious omission of Bowers but I am concerned being able to use him and Mayer correctly. He won't make it to 13 anyway, so it's not relevant for this list, but it does push one of those other names down to us.
Trading down brings the next tier - this is where I want to be, pick up assets and grab one of these guys instead:
Brian Thomas Jr
Keon Coleman - I am a believer, many are not.
Xavier Worthy - he's gonna wreck defenses, how often depends on how well a team figures out how to use him and health
Amarius Mims
Taliese Fuaga
Olumuyiwa Fashanu - fun fact, my first manager in my tech career was named Olumuyiwa, great guy.
JC Lathan
Jer'Zhan Newton
Jared Verse
Cooper DeJean
Kool-aid McKinstry
Nate Wiggins
That's 25 names with another slew that are being lumped at this same range that I just don't know enough about - Mitchell, Fautanu, Franklin, Chop Robinson, Trice.
I’m all for a plug in and play guy at any position at this point.
RT- Fuaga, Latham
CB- Arnold
DT- Murphy, Newton
One thing is for sure Telesco is not opposed to drafting the trenches at mid to late 1st round.
massraider
Footballguy
Yep, I wonder what kind of guarantees he may ask for/get after this season.
Hankmoody
Footballguy
But first Free Agency.
www.pff.com
I'm not looking for a massive FA presence and hope we stay off the first page, but I would like to see us be active and sign more than we lose. We don't yet have the sustained draft success to support trying to collect comp picks every year. Our only guys of note are Jacobs and James so rather than sit out wave 1 trying to collect comp picks for them, let's just go sign about 10 guys, build the depth, and let 2025 be a year we look to get into the comp game. Zadaruis Smith and Patrick Queen headline this list for me. Smith shouldn't command top EDGE money but unlike Chandler he's a vet that has aged very well, consistently bringing quality pass rush pressure ever year - with Clowney as my backup option in the same category. Queen is young for his experience and BAL can't spend that kind of money on another LB so he'll be leaving, it's just a matter of where. I don't want to break the bank on him, but his overall game is a B+ and far superior to any depth we have. Bring him in and let Diablo provide depth and injury experience (and maybe a comp pick when he leaves in 2025).
Jonah Williams, Stephon Gilmore, and Austin Ekeler would also be interesting.
NFL Free Agent Rankings
NFL free agent rankings with analysis, projected salaries, PFF grades and PFF WAR.
www.pff.com
I'm not looking for a massive FA presence and hope we stay off the first page, but I would like to see us be active and sign more than we lose. We don't yet have the sustained draft success to support trying to collect comp picks every year. Our only guys of note are Jacobs and James so rather than sit out wave 1 trying to collect comp picks for them, let's just go sign about 10 guys, build the depth, and let 2025 be a year we look to get into the comp game. Zadaruis Smith and Patrick Queen headline this list for me. Smith shouldn't command top EDGE money but unlike Chandler he's a vet that has aged very well, consistently bringing quality pass rush pressure ever year - with Clowney as my backup option in the same category. Queen is young for his experience and BAL can't spend that kind of money on another LB so he'll be leaving, it's just a matter of where. I don't want to break the bank on him, but his overall game is a B+ and far superior to any depth we have. Bring him in and let Diablo provide depth and injury experience (and maybe a comp pick when he leaves in 2025).
Jonah Williams, Stephon Gilmore, and Austin Ekeler would also be interesting.
ZADO
Footballguy
The Raiders and Seattle Seahawks Defensive Tackle Leonard Williams are expected to show mutual interest in reaching a deal when the NFL legal tampering period opens up on March 11th.Raiders General Manager Tom Telesco is eyeing to build his new roster from the inside out, starting with the trenches. Williams played under now-Raiders Defensive Coordinator Patrick Graham in 2020 and 2021. He grew up a fan of the Raiders and has made his desire to play for them very clear since entering the league in 2015, even commenting on it at an interview during the NFL Scouting Combine of his onboarding year. The Raiders ended up selecting Wide Receiver Amari Cooper at number four overall instead, while Williams came off the board two picks later to the New York Jets. To further strengthen his connection with the Raiders, Williams has a known friendship with superstar Defensive End Maxx Crosby.But first Free Agency.
NFL Free Agent Rankings
NFL free agent rankings with analysis, projected salaries, PFF grades and PFF WAR.
I'm not looking for a massive FA presence and hope we stay off the first page, but I would like to see us be active and sign more than we lose. We don't yet have the sustained draft success to support trying to collect comp picks every year. Our only guys of note are Jacobs and James so rather than sit out wave 1 trying to collect comp picks for them, let's just go sign about 10 guys, build the depth, and let 2025 be a year we look to get into the comp game. Zadaruis Smith and Patrick Queen headline this list for me. Smith shouldn't command top EDGE money but unlike Chandler he's a vet that has aged very well, consistently bringing quality pass rush pressure ever year - with Clowney as my backup option in the same category. Queen is young for his experience and BAL can't spend that kind of money on another LB so he'll be leaving, it's just a matter of where. I don't want to break the bank on him, but his overall game is a B+ and far superior to any depth we have. Bring him in and let Diablo provide depth and injury experience (and maybe a comp pick when he leaves in 2025).
Jonah Williams, Stephon Gilmore, and Austin Ekeler would also be interesting.
krsone21
Footballguy
I hear you, but there are some amazing OT's in this draft that should be drafted early so I don't see it as taking a need but taking a best player available lining up with a need. That being said if the Raiders can sign free agents before the draft and use those early picks else where like on defense or a QB I'm good with that too. Honestly I just want an Impact player that comes in day one and makes some noise for the Raiders. I'm tired of the 1st round draft busts.
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ZADO
Footballguy
Example - Robert Spillane , the Raiders best LB , went undrafted
Jack Jones , Raiders top CB right now was drafted rd 4
Maxx Crosby , best DE in football was drafted 4th rd
Those are just 3 examples of what kind of talent is found later , this isnt ground breaking but it keeps me centered when the draft approaches
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
How about they just choose someone with no current injuries as a no 1 pick. Mmm-Kay….
krsone21
Footballguy
Hankmoody
Footballguy
Yep what we "need" more than anything are great players. If the OT is the best, then just take him. I only have one on that list but there are a couple more I wouldn't lose sleep over. Just don't pass on Odunze or an impact DL like Murphy or Latua for them.
ZADO
Footballguy
Michael Lombardi on Antonio Pierce: “He Thinks He Knows the Raider Way Because He’s from Compton. It’s a Joke.”
Michael Lombardi once served as a senior personnel executive for Al Davis, but in the years since he was fired in 2007, Lombardi has morphed into the one of the team’s most reliable critics. …
www.raidersbeat.com
A week ago, the senior Lombardi put Antonio Pierce on blast for his comments on the ‘Mahomes Rules’ tactic that defeated the Kansas City Chiefs at Arrowhead Stadium.
“This guy is driving me crazy,” Lombardi said about Pierce on The GM Shuffle podcast. “Can he just shut up? Why won’t somebody in the Raiders tell him to shut up?”
This week, Lombardi picked up where he left off.
This time he accused Pierce of not knowing what the ‘Raider Way’ is really about.
“The ‘Raider Way’ isn’t a word,” Lombardi said. “It’s about ‘this a prototype of the player we want at this position. This is a prototype of a player we want at that position.’ That’s the Raider Way. What’s so comical is what he’s talking about is because he’s from Compton, he thinks he knows the Raider Way. It’s a joke.”
Marcus Mosher
@Marcus_Mosher
·
I don't think Michael Lombardi is happy that Antonio Pierce fired his son.That is all this is.
Exactly! The “Raider Way” was lost decades ago along with the mystique, commitment to excellence, just win baby. All that rhetoric is long gone. I’ve seen too many games (over the past 20 years especially) where the Raiders were the ones getting their rear ends handed to them, embarrassed, beat up, out coached, out played and out drafted.Michael Lombardi on Antonio Pierce: “He Thinks He Knows the Raider Way Because He’s from Compton. It’s a Joke.”
Michael Lombardi once served as a senior personnel executive for Al Davis, but in the years since he was fired in 2007, Lombardi has morphed into the one of the team’s most reliable critics. …
A week ago, the senior Lombardi put Antonio Pierce on blast for his comments on the ‘Mahomes Rules’ tactic that defeated the Kansas City Chiefs at Arrowhead Stadium.
“This guy is driving me crazy,” Lombardi said about Pierce on The GM Shuffle podcast. “Can he just shut up? Why won’t somebody in the Raiders tell him to shut up?”
This week, Lombardi picked up where he left off.
This time he accused Pierce of not knowing what the ‘Raider Way’ is really about.
“The ‘Raider Way’ isn’t a word,” Lombardi said. “It’s about ‘this a prototype of the player we want at this position. This is a prototype of a player we want at that position.’ That’s the Raider Way. What’s so comical is what he’s talking about is because he’s from Compton, he thinks he knows the Raider Way. It’s a joke.”
Marcus Mosher
@Marcus_Mosher
·
I don't think Michael Lombardi is happy that Antonio Pierce fired his son.That is all this is.
The Raider Way hasn’t worked in over 40 years. AP is trying to instill toughness in an organization that has lost it decades ago and that’s what I like best about him and I see nothing wrong with it.
ETA: Also the old school faction of the NFL likes their HCs stoic and reserved. AP is an outspoken former player who thrives on emotion. He’s going to say what’s on his mind and have no apologies and it rubs the establishment the wrong way in the media and NFL. I guess that’s one thing that’s always stayed true to the Raiders good and bad.
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DocHolliday
Footballguy
I wish Lombardi would just shut up. He has no relevanceMichael Lombardi on Antonio Pierce: “He Thinks He Knows the Raider Way Because He’s from Compton. It’s a Joke.”
Michael Lombardi once served as a senior personnel executive for Al Davis, but in the years since he was fired in 2007, Lombardi has morphed into the one of the team’s most reliable critics. …
A week ago, the senior Lombardi put Antonio Pierce on blast for his comments on the ‘Mahomes Rules’ tactic that defeated the Kansas City Chiefs at Arrowhead Stadium.
“This guy is driving me crazy,” Lombardi said about Pierce on The GM Shuffle podcast. “Can he just shut up? Why won’t somebody in the Raiders tell him to shut up?”
This week, Lombardi picked up where he left off.
This time he accused Pierce of not knowing what the ‘Raider Way’ is really about.
“The ‘Raider Way’ isn’t a word,” Lombardi said. “It’s about ‘this a prototype of the player we want at this position. This is a prototype of a player we want at that position.’ That’s the Raider Way. What’s so comical is what he’s talking about is because he’s from Compton, he thinks he knows the Raider Way. It’s a joke.”
Marcus Mosher
@Marcus_Mosher
·
I don't think Michael Lombardi is happy that Antonio Pierce fired his son.That is all this is.
Same with Greenberg, he’s just sour grapes because his pathetic Jets couldn’t beat AP. He just p!sses people off and I like it. Hopefully it doesn’t get him run out though.I wish Lombardi would just shut up. He has no relevanceMichael Lombardi on Antonio Pierce: “He Thinks He Knows the Raider Way Because He’s from Compton. It’s a Joke.”
Michael Lombardi once served as a senior personnel executive for Al Davis, but in the years since he was fired in 2007, Lombardi has morphed into the one of the team’s most reliable critics. …
A week ago, the senior Lombardi put Antonio Pierce on blast for his comments on the ‘Mahomes Rules’ tactic that defeated the Kansas City Chiefs at Arrowhead Stadium.
“This guy is driving me crazy,” Lombardi said about Pierce on The GM Shuffle podcast. “Can he just shut up? Why won’t somebody in the Raiders tell him to shut up?”
This week, Lombardi picked up where he left off.
This time he accused Pierce of not knowing what the ‘Raider Way’ is really about.
“The ‘Raider Way’ isn’t a word,” Lombardi said. “It’s about ‘this a prototype of the player we want at this position. This is a prototype of a player we want at that position.’ That’s the Raider Way. What’s so comical is what he’s talking about is because he’s from Compton, he thinks he knows the Raider Way. It’s a joke.”
Marcus Mosher
@Marcus_Mosher
·
I don't think Michael Lombardi is happy that Antonio Pierce fired his son.That is all this is.
Hankmoody
Footballguy
Right on queue Laiatu Latu has a neck concern. Hmmmmm.............
Hankmoody
Footballguy
Jonnu Smith released. I think because it's still officially the 2023 season that he goes through waivers? I'd like to claim him if so, he's someone we can get use out of and he factors into 2026 comp formula if we don't re-sign him after this season. If not waiver claim, we should still pursue him. He doesn't figure into the comp formula this year so even though I don't expect us to net anything for 2025 it can't hurt to stay in the black initially.
LawFitz
Footballguy
The salary on his existing contract would be $6.5 MM for 2024. I don't think he's worth that. He need to accept a big pay reduction, which I doubt he'd take without first testing out the full market for his services.
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