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2022-23 NBA Thread: “you’ll never let me down like the Heat did”, Miami fan says to giant pile of cocaine (1 Viewer)
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Navin Johnson
Footballguy
Navin Johnson
Footballguy
Capella
Footballguy
Can’t they try to compete even if Westbrook goes away next year? Those two things don’t seem mutually exclusive.
multiple sources tell me New Orleans can pick swap anyhow.
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msudaisy26
Footballguy
msudaisy26
Footballguy
I don't know the Lakers cap space, but even if Westbrook is off the books does that free up money to sign anyone? This isn't like the NFL with a hard salary cap.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
As of right now, the only players they have on the books for 2023-2024 are Anthony Davis (40.6M) and Talen Horton-Tucker (11M player option). That's the season they should be targeting for a return to competitiveness. They'll have to suffer through this season eating Westbrook's 47M salary. It would be stupid to stretch him, or send him out for other longer term crummy deals (which seem to be the only realistic trade possibilities) at this point.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
I'm not sure we're understanding each other. I'm saying they won't be competitive this year because they're stuck with Westbrook. Their roster is trash and they have no financial flexibility to fix it this year. They'll have a shot at being competitive next year (2023-2024) when Westbrook goes away (assuming they don't take on more bad salary between now and then). So taking swings at guys who are projects this year that could develop into major contributors next year is a smart approach.
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Navin Johnson
Footballguy
Also LBJ's $50M cap hold. Maybe he plays at a discount. If not, and they rescind everyone else on the books, that leaves them about $30M to sign FA's.
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
the King simply wont have it. youth diminishes him. he'll round up every Snell & Stevenson in his Stanley Johnson Menagerie of Broken Toys so he wont look scrubby (and to be fresh for the Age of Bronny).
Gr00vus
Footballguy
It'll be another cross roads for the franchise. 20 or so years ago, Jerry had the goods to tell Shaq to shape up or ship out and hold fast when Shaq decided to stay loose. I doubt Jeanie has those same goods to stand fast if LeBron won't finally listen to reason in the face of multiple failures stemming from his bad decision making, but I'll keep hoping she does until it doesn't happen (again).
scoobus
Footballguy
He's not athletic enough to play in the league IMO, zero lateral ability, not sure what position he would even pretend to cover. Duncan Robinson would be his absolute ceiling and seems crazy unlikely as he's not even that level of athlete and shoots much better completely set than on the run like Robinson can. I hope I'm wrong of course.
More interesting prospect is Cole Swider who signed with the Lakers, 6'9" and can really shoot from deep. Defense is again, questionable.
Desert_Power
Footballguy
Hornets capping off a truly terrible 24 hours by bringing back Steve Clifford as coach. I keep seeing some Hornets fans defending the abysmal trade last night by saying that we have too many young players on the roster needing minutes. Now they've brought back a coach incapable of developing young players. Good job, MJ
DJackson10
Footballguy
Leeroy Jenkins said:
Woj was told 2 yrs or so ago he couldn't announce picks on twitter before the Commissioner had announced it. Sothis is his new way around it.
Desert_Power
Footballguy
DJackson10
Footballguy
msudaisy26
Footballguy
Desert_Power said:
It is almost like MJ is trying to run Ball out of town.
Desert_Power
Footballguy
Bad contracts really have big consequences when you are in a small market and don’t want to pay the luxury tax.
Yo Mama
Footballguy
I saw an interesting snippet from an article earlier today (too lazy to hunt it down but I think it was maybe Sam Veccine) that talked about the unique situation with the luxury tax this year. With some of the recent deals (how much it took to offload Kenna, how little Detroit got forGrant, etc) it seems like there are a bunch of owners looking to avoid the tax this year.
With almost half of the teams this year slated to be tax payers, and with the Warriors set to pay well over $300 mil in tax alone, it’s a REALLY good year to be under the tax to get the non-payer portion of that huge tax payout.
Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
Unfortunate for the Suns. I think his final price will be well well below the max.
I'd love for the Suns to deal him but as time goes on and there's less suitors willing to spend max on a 1/2 effort quitter, more likely he's back on Phoenix. Box score watchers will think he's an elite talent. He's not. He'll have games/moments where he certainly can play like it. But the motor doesn't run most of the time. And that was w/o a big contract. Paul has literally made every single center he's worked with here produce. Whether it's McGee, off the street Biyombo, off the street Frank the Tank. Literally makes zero sense to spend lavishly on him. The Suns have had a better record w/o him.
(Edit: Not to mention already has 1 strike NBA drug program. 2nd violation is 55 games. 3rd violation is min 2 year ban. I'm completely dumbfounded why there's ever been any talk of him getting a max deal on literally every single level)
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Juxtatarot
Footballguy
I wouldn’t be surprised if he remains unsigned well after virtually every other free agent has signed. Kind of like what we saw with Markkanen last year. It can suck to be restricted.
Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
That's interesting and very possible.
I'm just mystified why a team would roll out the red carpet for him. I'm more excited to see if they're able to get anything in return in a deal for him rather than him returning. But as time goes on I think they resign him when the market is much less than expected for him and move Crowder's expiring or even Cam Johnson who is a FA next year.
I'd love nothing more than for them to be able to swing a @Capella/Hunter for Ayton/Crowder or Cam Johnson deal. And I'm not even a fan of Capella. Or even something involving Myles Turner. I just believe Ayton's market won't be there and you're more or less deciding to pay similar money to Capella/Turner/Ayton.
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msudaisy26
Footballguy
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Listening to GM Weaver's recent interview it sounded like he was going to address getting a good outside shooter more than doubling down on the center position where they seem to be good for now. Not sure who he will get, but it sounded like he had someone in mind.
Encyclopedia Brown
Footballguy
msudaisy26
Footballguy
According to Kenneth Teape of NBA Analysis Network, the Detroit Pistons and Indiana Pacers are “major threats” to land Charlotte forward Miles Bridges.
Both teams mentioned are expected to be some of the more active teams this summer, and at this moment, they’ve been the lone teams linked as potential threats to sign Bridges away from the Hornets. Regardless of destination, Bridges is going to land a pretty massive contract this season, but whether it’s with the Hornets or another suitor remains to be seen. Charlotte had originally said that they were hesitant to offer Bridges a max deal, but more recently stated that they could be looking to offload salary in order to retain the emerging star. Gordon Hayward is the first name that comes to mind in terms of shedding some contracts in Charlotte, and Bridges could be even better than his 2021-2022 third-round fantasy value if Hayward heads elsewhere. Bridges bet on himself last summer when he declined a four-year deal worth nearly $60 million, and because of that, he could now earn twice that this summer. Be prepared to draft him as soon as the second round of all re-draft leagues.
Both teams mentioned are expected to be some of the more active teams this summer, and at this moment, they’ve been the lone teams linked as potential threats to sign Bridges away from the Hornets. Regardless of destination, Bridges is going to land a pretty massive contract this season, but whether it’s with the Hornets or another suitor remains to be seen. Charlotte had originally said that they were hesitant to offer Bridges a max deal, but more recently stated that they could be looking to offload salary in order to retain the emerging star. Gordon Hayward is the first name that comes to mind in terms of shedding some contracts in Charlotte, and Bridges could be even better than his 2021-2022 third-round fantasy value if Hayward heads elsewhere. Bridges bet on himself last summer when he declined a four-year deal worth nearly $60 million, and because of that, he could now earn twice that this summer. Be prepared to draft him as soon as the second round of all re-draft leagues.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Hornets don’t seem to be in much danger of the luxury tax. It would be a terrible decision to not match even if they think he’d be too overpaid. They would be better off doing a sign-and-trade this off-season or just matching and trading later. (Or just keep him.)According to Kenneth Teape of NBA Analysis Network, the Detroit Pistons and Indiana Pacers are “major threats” to land Charlotte forward Miles Bridges.
Both teams mentioned are expected to be some of the more active teams this summer, and at this moment, they’ve been the lone teams linked as potential threats to sign Bridges away from the Hornets. Regardless of destination, Bridges is going to land a pretty massive contract this season, but whether it’s with the Hornets or another suitor remains to be seen. Charlotte had originally said that they were hesitant to offer Bridges a max deal, but more recently stated that they could be looking to offload salary in order to retain the emerging star. Gordon Hayward is the first name that comes to mind in terms of shedding some contracts in Charlotte, and Bridges could be even better than his 2021-2022 third-round fantasy value if Hayward heads elsewhere. Bridges bet on himself last summer when he declined a four-year deal worth nearly $60 million, and because of that, he could now earn twice that this summer. Be prepared to draft him as soon as the second round of all re-draft leagues.
Desert_Power
Footballguy
Yeah. I don't think he's probably worth the max in the abstract, but Hornets have to pay him.
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
yeah, but here's where the 5-yr/higher max thing that's supposed to help teams keep their talent actually hurts them.
Miles's value tops out at $28-30M, but the dough is so big anyway all that matters to players' swag is maxes. Bridges's home max is 5/173, 36.5 per, just too much for an excellent 3rd option. but if Charlotte say we cant max you, Pistons can say "we will" for $43M (4/130) less. Now, $32.5 is indeed too much on MB but, if you factor in the Horford Tax (Boston had to initially overpay to break the seal of black players not even listening on Boston) for another city ballers dont wanna go to, bringing a Flint boy home for some Pride and "screw shooters, he's a scorer", you go for it - at least make em match.
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Juxtatarot
Footballguy
The problem with that for Detroit is that after the moratorium and matching period, they would hardly have anything to do with their cap space. Free agency will mostly be over.
Detroit should go after unrestricted guys or be a dumping ground for bad contracts for future draft assets. Trying to sign restricted guys is almost always a fool’s errand.
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
he's a damn good fit, though. much better than Ayton. it's neither a glory nor a need signing. their two pix make the Pistons much closer to mattering than they were five days ago. with Miles, they'd only be a coupla nails journeymen (a Crowder/Thad Young type @ F, a calm-it-down PG) and some defensive schooling for Cunningham from being a full-compliment contender
msudaisy26
Footballguy
It is Michael Jordan the owner though. So I give the Pistons a shot. Plus I understand the Pistons aren't a free agent destination, so I happy they are trying. I can't fault them if they offer Bridges the max and it gets matched or any free agent chooses another team.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
I disagree with going after another free agent just to use the cap space. At worst just sit on the space for next year.
I agree with grabbing a bad contract or 2 if they are selective. I love the idea of grabbing Hayward.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
Over/under 3.5 days before the 76ers fans see this and come in to complain that the whole world is against them.
identikit
Footballguy
Kiddnets
Footballguy
As a Nets fan Im tired of being held hostage by Kyrie - hes a great player but whats the point if hes not available and the team gets swept in 1st rd....they could do that without him.
I trust Marks and hope he has a solid plan B to satisfy KD and make another run at this thing without Kyrie - or this hardball forces Kyrie to take a more team centric approach. I guess we'll see this week.
I trust Marks and hope he has a solid plan B to satisfy KD and make another run at this thing without Kyrie - or this hardball forces Kyrie to take a more team centric approach. I guess we'll see this week.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
To be clear, this isn’t my position. Signings should be strategic with the long term plan.
I agree that holding over cap space into the season could end up being beneficial. I guess that could go hand in hand with striking out on Bridges. That wouldn’t be my Plan A though.
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
FA's who could help Pistons if Bridges were to be matched:
Chris Boucher
Jalen Smith
Thad Young
Bags
Gary Payton II
(i'd say Bruce Brown & Trey Lyles if they hadnt already been thru town, and Bobby Portis if he'd accept a bench-captain role, but i dont think he's looking for that)
no glamour boys
ETA: and the only reason i wouldnt do the Westbrook thing i mentioned before the draft is that Jaden Ivey might actually learn bad habits from him, whereas CC wouldnt and he could only help Hayes
Chris Boucher
Jalen Smith
Thad Young
Bags
Gary Payton II
(i'd say Bruce Brown & Trey Lyles if they hadnt already been thru town, and Bobby Portis if he'd accept a bench-captain role, but i dont think he's looking for that)
no glamour boys
ETA: and the only reason i wouldnt do the Westbrook thing i mentioned before the draft is that Jaden Ivey might actually learn bad habits from him, whereas CC wouldnt and he could only help Hayes
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Juxtatarot
Footballguy
But most those guys are unrestricted. They aren’t going to wait around for the Pistons and Hornets unless free agency goes poorly for them.
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
i get it - the timing's what doesnt work for you. good point.
on the other hand, nothing earth-shattering about any of em and, since the need for none of em would be superseded by a Bridges signing and are all in the $8-14 mil range, any could be dually pursued
msudaisy26
Footballguy
I like the list, especially Boucher and I would be okay taking Westbrook if they just bought him out.
Chaos Commish
Footballguy
Boucher is likely more valuable than most think.
Westbrook... sigh. My former favorite player who gets so much grief it makes me sad. Pretty sure he remains a Laker and plays awful. I could go on and on, but your replies would hurt my feelings.
New coach Ham is reportedly very excited about Russ and changing his role. No more one on one, or significantly less, focus on defense bla bla bla. Sacrifice was the topic of their first meeting. We'll see. I worry the trainwreck continues. As a Laker fan and Russophile, I'm torn on what I hope happens, and pray for a miraculous improvement in his game. Ballhandling, turnovers, shooting way way better in his old age (something so many have done). Meh... not optimistic.
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msudaisy26
Footballguy
Boucher is likely more valuable than most think.
Westbrook... sigh. My former favorite player who gets so much grief it makes me sad. Pretty sure he remains a Laker and plays awful. I could go on and on, but your replies would hurt my feelings.
New coach Ham is reportedly very excited about Russ and changing his role. No more one on one, or significantly less, focus on defense bla bla bla. Sacrifice was the topic of their first meeting. We'll see. I worry the trainwreck continues. As a Laker fan and Russophile, I'm torn on what I hope happens, and pray for a miraculous improvement in his game. Ballhandling, turnovers, shooting way way better in his old age (something so many have done). Meh... not optimistic.
I like Westbrook and think he gets a raw deal from fans and the media. I think he is just a max effort guy who always gives 100 percent despite his flaws.
I don't think he is a bad teammate at all, I just don't think he is good anymore and the Pistons have 3 young guards and I don't want Westbrook taking minutes from them.
So absorb his contract and buyout him out and let him choose his own team to play for. It would be a win for the Lakers, a win for the Pistons and a win for Westbrook.
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
More wealthy, perhaps. More valuable, not.
Boucher is waaaay too passive to be any more than a role player. A unicornish role player - like a short, scared Chet or, as to the vertical game what Mikal Bridges is to the horizontal, in being more capable than actual - perhaps, but one nonetheless.
Paying Chris more than $12-13M would be like paying Mikal $20+. NO one, including my beloved Timelord, who doesn't have plays run for him should be paid more than 10% of budget.
Chaos Commish
Footballguy
Yeah he's also 29. I like his interior D and rebounding, consistent three and ability to contribute grunt work without being the focus. He is wanting between the three and rim, but he has many impressive moments and seems to be improving. I read he's a Suns target. Good fit.
Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
With Saric due back, I don't see us going after Boucher 
I think Boucher's a vet min player. If he comes at that, perhaps the Suns give him a backup frontcourt role. Just an inconsistent sloppy undisciplined player. Reminds me of Anthony Randolph. With a new/different coaching staff, very easily could see him in DNP-CD in no time. Personally not at all a fan of him
I think Boucher's a vet min player. If he comes at that, perhaps the Suns give him a backup frontcourt role. Just an inconsistent sloppy undisciplined player. Reminds me of Anthony Randolph. With a new/different coaching staff, very easily could see him in DNP-CD in no time. Personally not at all a fan of him
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