2016 Green Bay Packers thread (1 Viewer)

[Sabertooth]

Trying to thinking back to a team the Packers have put on the field that's worse than this one, since the Wolf era.  Not sure I can come up with any.  The 6-10 team was pretty bad but that was with Rodgers first year starting.  

The 4-12 team that got Sherman canned was probably worse.  Not by a lot though.  Lot's of similarities actually.  Ahman Green went down.  The defense was a bunch of average guys.  Depth got exposed. 

I'm fairly comfortable saying this is one of the worst team the Packers have fielded since I've been out of high school.  I'm 42.  That's a pretty good run.  And not to say it's over or anything either.  But we truly have been spoiled as fans.  You can't stay near the top forever.  It would have been nice to win more than 2 championships in that 25 year span with two of the top 10 quarterbacks of all time, but it wasn't meant to be.  

Time for Mike and Ted to let Elliot Wolf take over and inject some vitality.  Even Rodgers said last night this team lacks energy.  Mike's message is stale.  If you can't even get up for home games, it's time for a change.  

 

[packer_junkie]

Yup. See ya MM.

Whose next??

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

They should have slid some acorns in Luck's pants and let that squirrel loose again.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

Coach Jimmy McGinty knows what's wrong with this team.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

Weird year. 

The challenges preceding the year were going to be the d-line with Raji walking away and with their suspensions, whether they could have any semblance of a middle linebacking corp, whether Jordy and the other W.R.'s could return to form, and whether Lacy could keep the fat off.  Also some question whether they had a T.E. who could contribute.

The d-line has played well and Clark looks like a solid draft choice.  The linebackers they were bringing along in the middle have come along just fine and Thompson seems to have hit there in the draft as well.  Jordy is back, but not returned to form.  Adams, Montgomery and Cobb have improved somewhat, but are not consistent.  They do have some speed there in guys who are not seeing the  field consistently. Lacy is fat and out with injury and coupled with Starks and roster spots that has been a problem.  The jury remains out on Cook at T.E. but damn dude, you are sure taking your sweet time in healing. The one spot where the Packers were suppose to have depth, other than W.R. was at D.B., well stocked, young and improving.  Turns out the Packers were well stocked there, just not well enough. 

My take, Thompson has done his job remarkably well given where they draft.  The coaching staff has done well in bringing along young guys.  The lack seems to be  injuries and failure to forge an identity.  The two are probably related to some extent, but not completely. I have to put that on the coaching staff unless I learn that there is a cancer on the team subverting them, and really there is only one player with that kind of cache and I do not think he is subverting them.

Here's the thing, changing coaching staffs is fraught with peril.  Often that means a year or two tossed aside as philosophies are instilled.  That is unacceptable.  This team needs to come together, get healthy and go on a tear.  The thing is, after 8 games, maybe this is all they are.  Sad if so.

 

[Man in the yellow hat]

.  Mike's message is stale.  If you can't even get up for home games, it's time for a change.  

I can't agree on the roster and talent. I believe there is some talent here, and I don't think you can pin this loss on Thompson.

However, I am starting to wonder about what you stated here. I'm at a loss as to how you, as an NFL player, can be unprepared to play a game. No energy, and the team talked about it. They had nothing going, "no juice." That is unacceptable. 

Beyond that, the offensive game plan was awful. Stop trying to feature Richard Rodgers. He can't do it at this level, and I don't think I've seen a TE worse at blocking in the run game. Stop putting him in those positions.

Defensively, they gave them a chance. Two interceptions by Clinton-Dix, and the offense squandered the opportunities. You'd like to see the D close out the game better, but the offense put them in a very tough spot. 

Being unprepared for one of the worst teams in the league, and playing with no desire. That falls squarely on McCarthy. I've been a supporter, but I gotta believe his job is on the line. It'll be interesting to see how the team responds next week.

 

[hauser42]

This stuff has been going on for a year. The hail mary win at Detroit that allowed this team to get into the playoffs covered up how bad of a coaching staff this team has.

Read today the reason for the opening return going to the house was the Colts had run everything straight up the middle and not shown a run back against the grain. Once again a team was more prepared for the game coming out of the box. Also shows Zook doesn't have team prepared for changes.

McCarthy game plan showed how stubborn he is and that NFL knows how to beat him. Colts played 2 high safety and dared him to run the ball or throw short routes. McCarthy has patience for this type of play. If he is not throwing deep balls he is not happy. His comments after the game that players need to win the one on one battles is getting old. His scheme is not helping players get open, if it isn't working make changes to help the players get open. His stubbornness is being more costly the longer he is allowed to run this team.

Time for McCarthy to be shown the door at the end of this season. New direction on offense and defense is needed, with new eyes keeping players countable for their play.

Ted can step down at the end of the season to be an area scout and allow Elliott Wolf to put his touch on this team. Maybe we will see talent brought in with more than the draft. Ted has done a great job drafting and seeing talent, but his lack of using other avenues has created holes on this team.

 

[Pipes]

I can't agree on the roster and talent. I believe there is some talent here, and I don't think you can pin this loss on Thompson.

However, I am starting to wonder about what you stated here. I'm at a loss as to how you, as an NFL player, can be unprepared to play a game. No energy, and the team talked about it. They had nothing going, "no juice." That is unacceptable. 

Beyond that, the offensive game plan was awful. Stop trying to feature Richard Rodgers. He can't do it at this level, and I don't think I've seen a TE worse at blocking in the run game. Stop putting him in those positions.

Defensively, they gave them a chance. Two interceptions by Clinton-Dix, and the offense squandered the opportunities. You'd like to see the D close out the game better, but the offense put them in a very tough spot. 

Being unprepared for one of the worst teams in the league, and playing with no desire. That falls squarely on McCarthy. I've been a supporter, but I gotta believe his job is on the line. It'll be interesting to see how the team responds next week.

I agree with this.  While this isn't the most talented team in the league they are talented enough to be a playoff team.  Thompson has had his share of blunders but overall, considering where they've drafted, he's been fine.  With that being said though I wouldn't mind seeing a change if the job goes to Wolf. 

McCarthy on the other hand...I'm done with the Beav.  His game plan yesterday was terrible and the team lacks fire.  Montgomery was gashing the Colts early yesterday and they completely went away from it.  Instead forcing throws to Richard Rodgers or giving it to Ripkowski for FB dives on 2nd and long.  And for the love of God go grab Rodgers by the facemack and tell him to quit ####### launching the ball 50 yards downfield on 3rd and 5s.  It's almost like Rodgers is so pissed at how things are going he's saying #### it and winging it downfield.  That has got to stop.  This team, especially on offense looks like they're sleep walking through the games.

I don't see this combo of TT, MM and AR getting back to the Superbowl so time for a change before it's too late. There aren't many franchise QBs out there so AR is fine though he needs to pull his head out of his ###.  That means TT and especially MM need to go.  I say let the kid take over and go get an assistant from a winning organization..(Josh McDaniels).  Yes he wasn't great with Denver but I'll chalk that up to inexperience.  Time to do something different as this current formula isn't working.

 

[Sabertooth]

Weird year. 

The challenges preceding the year were going to be the d-line with Raji walking away and with their suspensions, whether they could have any semblance of a middle linebacking corp, whether Jordy and the other W.R.'s could return to form, and whether Lacy could keep the fat off.  Also some question whether they had a T.E. who could contribute.

The d-line has played well and Clark looks like a solid draft choice.  The linebackers they were bringing along in the middle have come along just fine and Thompson seems to have hit there in the draft as well.  Jordy is back, but not returned to form.  Adams, Montgomery and Cobb have improved somewhat, but are not consistent.  They do have some speed there in guys who are not seeing the  field consistently. Lacy is fat and out with injury and coupled with Starks and roster spots that has been a problem.  The jury remains out on Cook at T.E. but damn dude, you are sure taking your sweet time in healing. The one spot where the Packers were suppose to have depth, other than W.R. was at D.B., well stocked, young and improving.  Turns out the Packers were well stocked there, just not well enough. 

My take, Thompson has done his job remarkably well given where they draft.  The coaching staff has done well in bringing along young guys.  The lack seems to be  injuries and failure to forge an identity.  The two are probably related to some extent, but not completely. I have to put that one the coaching staff unless I learn that there is a cancer on the team subverting them, and really there is only one player with that kind of cache and I do not think he is subverting them.

here's the thing, changing coaching staffs is fraught with peril.  Often that means a year or two tossed aside as philosophies are instilled.  That is unacceptable.  this team needs to come together, get healthy and go on a tear.  The thing is, after 8 games, maybe this is all they are.  Sad if so.

I agree.  Clark is the best 1st round pick Ted has made since Matthews.  He wasn't a reach for need, and he was at the beginning of the DL run instead of at the end.  I believe he's also the youngest player in the NFL, or dang near it.  He's 21 years old only.  

 

[Sabertooth]

Weird year. 

The challenges preceding the year were going to be the d-line with Raji walking away and with their suspensions, whether they could have any semblance of a middle linebacking corp, whether Jordy and the other W.R.'s could return to form, and whether Lacy could keep the fat off.  Also some question whether they had a T.E. who could contribute.

The d-line has played well and Clark looks like a solid draft choice.  The linebackers they were bringing along in the middle have come along just fine and Thompson seems to have hit there in the draft as well.  Jordy is back, but not returned to form.  Adams, Montgomery and Cobb have improved somewhat, but are not consistent.  They do have some speed there in guys who are not seeing the  field consistently. Lacy is fat and out with injury and coupled with Starks and roster spots that has been a problem.  The jury remains out on Cook at T.E. but damn dude, you are sure taking your sweet time in healing. The one spot where the Packers were suppose to have depth, other than W.R. was at D.B., well stocked, young and improving.  Turns out the Packers were well stocked there, just not well enough. 

My take, Thompson has done his job remarkably well given where they draft.  The coaching staff has done well in bringing along young guys.  The lack seems to be  injuries and failure to forge an identity.  The two are probably related to some extent, but not completely. I have to put that one the coaching staff unless I learn that there is a cancer on the team subverting them, and really there is only one player with that kind of cache and I do not think he is subverting them.

here's the thing, changing coaching staffs is fraught with peril.  Often that means a year or two tossed aside as philosophies are instilled.  That is unacceptable.  this team needs to come together, get healthy and go on a tear.  The thing is, after 8 games, maybe this is all they are.  Sad if so.

I don't think it's 8 games though.  Its more like 26 games.  Actually they have been middling ever since this game.  They simply lost their mojo with 5:13 remaining in the game two years ago.  I remember that game distinctly as I watch it with my mom.  Last playoff game I ever got to watch with her.  I'll never forget it.  

That was the last time this team had the one thing you need to win....hope.  They've been a shell since then.  They are 14-12 since then if you include playoffs.  This is the exact opposite of remarkable.  It's mediocrity.  

 

[Sabertooth]

Packers have the 11th best record in the NFL since they lost to the Seahawks in the playoffs.  

They are the 2nd best team in the 4th best division since 2015.  I don't know how that is remarkable when you consider they have the best player in the NFL on their roster.  

They are middling.  No way around it.  

 

[Sabertooth]

This stuff has been going on for a year. The hail mary win at Detroit that allowed this team to get into the playoffs covered up how bad of a coaching staff this team has.

Read today the reason for the opening return going to the house was the Colts had run everything straight up the middle and not shown a run back against the grain. Once again a team was more prepared for the game coming out of the box. Also shows Zook doesn't have team prepared for changes.

McCarthy game plan showed how stubborn he is and that NFL knows how to beat him. Colts played 2 high safety and dared him to run the ball or throw short routes. McCarthy has patience for this type of play. If he is not throwing deep balls he is not happy. His comments after the game that players need to win the one on one battles is getting old. His scheme is not helping players get open, if it isn't working make changes to help the players get open. His stubbornness is being more costly the longer he is allowed to run this team.

Time for McCarthy to be shown the door at the end of this season. New direction on offense and defense is needed, with new eyes keeping players countable for their play.

Ted can step down at the end of the season to be an area scout and allow Elliott Wolf to put his touch on this team. Maybe we will see talent brought in with more than the draft. Ted has done a great job drafting and seeing talent, but his lack of using other avenues has created holes on this team.

Ted hasn't done a great job drafting.  He's done an adequate job drafting.  Hasn't hit a home run in the draft since 2010.  Plenty of singles, and a few doubles....but no home runs. 

 

[Sabertooth]

Packers have lost 5 of their last 9 at home.  Wasn't somebody saying something about a home field advantage?  

 

[hauser42]

Ted hasn't done a great job drafting.  He's done an adequate job drafting.  Hasn't hit a home run in the draft since 2010.  Plenty of singles, and a few doubles....but no home runs. 

Right he hasn't hit the big one. Look at the spots he has been drafting, then look back at last 20 years and see how many home runs have been hit.

It is not about hitting home runs it is about getting a lot of doubles from where they are drafting. Ted has hit more doubles later in the draft than most GMs getting a pay check. The issue is there is no supplement to the draft to fix holes. It doesn't have to be big names but solid veterans. For years now a nice veteran back up OL would be beneficial to the team.

 

[Sabertooth]

Plenty of studs have come off the board.  Heck the very next pick after Datone and Perry were DeAndre Hopkins and Harrison Smith respectively.  He's passed on plenty of all pros.  Sure finding a decent starter in the 5th round is great, but it doesn't really mean much when you remain a middling team.   

Who are these late gems from the past say three seasons?  I asked this question before but nobody responded.  Who are the doubles he's hit since the super bowl win?  Because I know he hasn't hit a home run.  But who are these players that make him better than most?  Because this team certainly isn't better than most.  Proof is in the pudding (sub .500 at home now in their last 9)

Now I agree he was nails early in his career.  He really did rebuild this team.  But that man is long gone.  And he's been replaced with a need based drafter who doesn't seem to have a fastball in his arsenal. 

This is a middling team, with a middling GM, and a middling coach in the middle of a middling season.  
 

 

[jurrassic]

Everything is linked within this franchise.  I tend to believe Ted gets to much of a free pass by fans.  The Packers have consistently had one of the youngest teams in the NFL.  From 2012 to this year they have ranked 5, 6, 6, 3, 3.  The only teams with a younger roster than the Packers this year are the Browns and Rams.  That should say something right there.  The insistence on the youth movement seriously sets this team back in a variety of ways.  It has been well documented by writers, analysts and executives that the Packers have to water down and spoon feed their offensive and defensive game plans for the young players.  Their installs take more time and consistently build through out the season (This is actually one reason to hold out hope and one of the reasons the Packers have always started slow.)  That falls just as much on Thompson as it does on the coaching staff.  Additionally, the youth really impacts the depth.  There are only so many UDFA's you can realistically rely on.  At some point, talent wins out.  The Packers also sit about $9 million under the cap at the moment, I am not sure if that has been adjusted for the Bahktiari signing or if his salary hits the cap next year.  That said, Casey Hayward signed a 3 year $15 million contract in the off-season and is currently tied with Marcus Peters for the league lead in int's.  I realize it's in hindsight but that is a really reasonable contract and something the Packers sure could use now.  

As far as McCarthy goes, I agree with most of what has already been stated.  His playbook lacks imagination and innovation and he has not adjusted to the defensive game plans or the talent he currently has on the team.  Things were looking up the last 2 games but yesterday was a failure in all 3 aspects of the game.  Very rarely does a team have a +2 advantage in takeovers and find themselves down by 14 points.  I have consistently heard other players and scouts state the Packers run one of the most vanilla offenses in the league.  Now (see above) this is somewhat an issue with the talent and youth on the team.  That said, I have been perplexed for several seasons by the new obsession with the"home run" shot and McCarthy's complete refusal to run any motion, trips, stacks, etc. to get his wr's open and create space.  

 I think the transition and influx of more veterans would provide a better base for McCarthy and the move form Thompson to Wolf is a little less "unknown" than whoever would come in and replace McCarthy.  Even if the Packers miss the playoffs this year, I don't think either of them will be fired.  In my opinion, they will need to miss the playoffs for at least 2 years.  

However, if we are discussing coaching changes, I wouldn't mind taking a look at Kyle Shanahan. He was able to adjust his offense to RG3 in Washington, which shows an ability to adapt and what he is doing in Atlanta this year is really impressive.  If he can turn Matt Ryan into an MVP, I would like to see what he could do with Rodgers.  The guy also has pedigree and has grown up in the NFL.  All that said, it's not happening

 

[Interseptopus]

The problem is our offense. It is very vanilla and predictable. It's one reason I really don't care if I watch the games anymore. McCarthy either needs to go, or we need an OC who can adapt the offense to the changing NFL. We run the same offense as we did 10 years ago. A lot has changed in the NFL and how defenses play. Tampa 2 was all the rage 10 years ago. Not anymore. Time to change the offense. 

McCarthy should be on the hotseat. No way you have an MVP caliber QB and talent to be a top defense and be looking at just over .500

 

[Interseptopus]

Ted hasn't done a great job drafting.  He's done an adequate job drafting.  Hasn't hit a home run in the draft since 2010.  Plenty of singles, and a few doubles....but no home runs. 

His 1st round fails are stunning. I realize that many 1st round picks fail but TT's record is crazy

 

[JoeyJoJoJuniorShabadoo]

 Time to change the offense. 

McCarthy should be on the hotseat.

These two things need to happen. Not quite sure that McCarthy should be fire but he definitely has the offense in a rut. It's kind of criminal that he may have wasted Rodgers' best seasons already.

The NFL is such a crapshoot this year (other than maybe the Patriots) so anything can happen but this team is just OFF.

 

[Sabertooth]

I think Dallas is the best team right now.  How the #### did that happen?  

 

[Interseptopus]

I think Dallas is the best team right now.  How the #### did that happen?  

creative coaching to fit the players they have. Not the other way around

 

[Sabertooth]

These two things need to happen. Not quite sure that McCarthy should be fire but he definitely has the offense in a rut. It's kind of criminal that he may have wasted Rodgers' best seasons already.

The NFL is such a crapshoot this year (other than maybe the Patriots) so anything can happen but this team is just OFF.

Same thing Sherman did with Favre.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

There are 32 NFL teams, all are well-funded and most have very aggressive ownership who accept nothing less than success. That's the competition. Its very hard to stay on top and the Packers record of success the past decade has been incredible. That said, if the coach underperforms he should be fired. Losing at Seattle as a huge dog in an NFC championship due to a series of highly improbable player errors doesn't shine negatively on the coach imo. Losing at home as a 7 point favorite is different - that has be considered a coaching failure.

That said, we certainly all accept the fact that the QB had another very bad game last night, an that the QB position has been the difference in prior losses to Brandford, Prescott and Ryan. How many times did Rogers fail to take an easy pass to an open receiver last night? How many overthrown or poorly thrown balls? How many times did he drop back and look calm, confident, in control?

Its easy to say the coach should be fired and replaced when the team is losing. I've no idea how to judge a coach's performance other than by W's and L's. He'll last until the end of the season for sure, and if the team is .500 or worse I think Thompson will have a hard decision to make. In the meantime, who is calling for Brett Hundley to get a look? No one, I'm sure. Please don't claim the coach is unaccountable or untouchable but ignore the fact that we have a 2nd quarterback who could hardly do any worse that our starter, yet there is no one here or in the media seriously considering benching Rogers.

 

[Interseptopus]

I would agree to some degree that TT needs to shoulder some of this responsibility. I'm being careful because:

1. he cannot control injuries- no one can
2. he cannot control how the coaches call the games/plays (nor should he)

But, I think Sabertooth makes a good assessment that the RB situation was not handled well from the get go. We went into the season short at RB with the hopes that a trimmed Lacy and a healthy Starks spelling him would be enough. Many times we have gone into the season with fewer QBs or OL in order to keep more RBs, WRs, or TEs. Those seasons we were able to make it work. This year it did not and we got hurt bad at RB. What he should have done was when Starks got hurt, find someone then. Don't wait until Lacy is hurt too. That was early enough in the season where whoever you got could have gotten up to speed by now and been a contributor. Do that now and it's probably too late to save the season.

It's been brought up here that we are one of the youngest teams consistently. I think that comes with positives and negatives. When you have an MVP QB on your roster, he's going to be eating up a lot of cap room. Same with a probowl LB. Between Matthews and Rodgers, they eat up a lot of space. We just can't afford veteran players as much. 9 million under the cap this season is great because it allows us to front-load a lot of contracts now to save us for future seasons. 

The idea of dumbing down the defense and offense for the younger guys is a fair one. I would like to see some more veteran leadership. But at the same time, there is a reason why we are consistently a team that is in line for the division and playoffs. And it isn't because we get old and have to rebuild every 5-6 years. We have a constant flux of players. So you have to take the good with the bad. We could be like many other teams we've seen in recent years: Tampa Bay, Oakland, Indianapolis, Baltimore, San Francisco, even New Orleans and build a team up real fast and then spend years in mediocrity or even at the bottom of the league trying to rebuild. 

I'm not sure what the answers are but I do have a lot of questions. I think McCarthy needs to go but unfortunately he won't be fired this season. What you'll see is the OC fired. I just think this team needs a change in a big way. Hell, bring in Edgar Bennett as HC next season. I think that would be more fun to watch than McCarthy's predictable offense: dive play 3 yard gain, quick slant for 5 yards, 3rd and short go for a 40 yard pass, punt. 

 

[Interseptopus]

That said, we certainly all accept the fact that the QB had another very bad game last night, an that the QB position has been the difference in prior losses to Brandford, Prescott and Ryan. How many times did Rogers fail to take an easy pass to an open receiver last night? How many overthrown or poorly thrown balls? How many times did he drop back and look calm, confident, in control?

How much is this from the complete lack of a running game? No QB would feel calm and confident dropping back to pass knowing the defense is fully expecting a pass because they have no running back. this team is set to fail due to the lack of depth at RB

 

[Sabertooth]

There are 32 NFL teams, all are well-funded and most have very aggressive ownership who accept nothing less than success. That's the competition. Its very hard to stay on top and the Packers record of success the past decade has been incredible. That said, if the coach underperforms he should be fired. Losing at Seattle as a huge dog in an NFC championship due to a series of highly improbable player errors doesn't shine negatively on the coach imo. Losing at home as a 7 point favorite is different - that has be considered a coaching failure.

That said, we certainly all accept the fact that the QB had another very bad game last night, an that the QB position has been the difference in prior losses to Brandford, Prescott and Ryan. How many times did Rogers fail to take an easy pass to an open receiver last night? How many overthrown or poorly thrown balls? How many times did he drop back and look calm, confident, in control?

Its easy to say the coach should be fired and replaced when the team is losing. I've no idea how to judge a coach's performance other than by W's and L's. He'll last until the end of the season for sure, and if the team is .500 or worse I think Thompson will have a hard decision to make. In the meantime, who is calling for Brett Hundley to get a look? No one, I'm sure. Please don't claim the coach is unaccountable or untouchable but ignore the fact that we have a 2nd quarterback who could hardly do any worse that our starter, yet there is no one here or in the media seriously considering benching Rogers.

Coaches are much easier to replace than quarterbacks.  But I do understand your point.    The buck stops with McCarthy.  But don't worry.  He's going to get that fixed.  

 

[dafreak]

The problem is our offense. It is very vanilla and predictable. It's one reason I really don't care if I watch the games anymore. McCarthy either needs to go, or we need an OC who can adapt the offense to the changing NFL. We run the same offense as we did 10 years ago. A lot has changed in the NFL and how defenses play. Tampa 2 was all the rage 10 years ago. Not anymore. Time to change the offense. 

McCarthy should be on the hotseat. No way you have an MVP caliber QB and talent to be a top defense and be looking at just over .500

And they are no longer getting a pas interference call on every deep pass. Helped by the fact that Aaron is overthrowing his receivers. 

 

[CletiusMaximus]

How much is this from the complete lack of a running game? No QB would feel calm and confident dropping back to pass knowing the defense is fully expecting a pass because they have no running back. this team is set to fail due to the lack of depth at RB

Its hard to say and I don't claim to know how to judge this. However, it seems every week we're hearing about the receivers, the running game and the OL being the reason for Rogers' poor play. Perhaps that is the case. We heard about Jordy Nelson all of last season, as though he were the second coming of Jerry Rice, and continue to hear that excuse this season. For me, a great QB doesn't necessarily need all-pros across his line, catching his passes and running the ball. That's the point of being a great QB, he excels no matter who is plugged in to those positions.

 

[Mr.Pack]

However, I am starting to wonder about what you stated here. I'm at a loss as to how you, as an NFL player, can be unprepared to play a game. No energy, and the team talked about it. They had nothing going, "no juice." That is unacceptable. 

I think McCarthy has lost the team.

The Offense is so predictable, Rodgers tries for the home run ball instead of taking what the Def gives him and the young guys know Rodgers doesn't trust them. I think they need a house cleaning starting with TT. His refusal to help this team through free agency is old and tired. 

Look at the Patriots, and look at how Reggie McKenzie has built the Raiders. A good mix of drafting and free agents. That's the way to be a successful organization. This being the youngest team year in and year out is just not a recipe for success.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

Coaches are much easier to replace than quarterbacks.  But I do understand your point.    The buck stops with McCarthy.  But don't worry.  He's going to get that fixed.  

I agree that, at least in the minds of fans, its much easier to fire a coach than to admit our superstar QB isn't what we think he is. Especially for Packer fans, as we're so spoiled at that position. I'm still hoping and expecting Rogers can get his swagger back. Ted's reality however is that he'd not only have to fire a coach, he'd also have to hire one. That's the tricky part. At least with McCarthy there is a system in place that has been successful.

 

[Chicago Hooligan]

"Fortunately" I'm going to be too worried about the election to worry too much about the Packers for another couple days. But they sure came out looking like puke yesterday.

One thing I'll note for now, watching Ryan/Martinez play... not perfectly, but mostly pretty well... why was no upgrade over AJ Hawk sought for almost a decade? Yeesh.

 

[Pipes]

There are 32 NFL teams, all are well-funded and most have very aggressive ownership who accept nothing less than success. That's the competition. Its very hard to stay on top and the Packers record of success the past decade has been incredible. That said, if the coach underperforms he should be fired. Losing at Seattle as a huge dog in an NFC championship due to a series of highly improbable player errors doesn't shine negatively on the coach imo. Losing at home as a 7 point favorite is different - that has be considered a coaching failure.

That said, we certainly all accept the fact that the QB had another very bad game last night, an that the QB position has been the difference in prior losses to Brandford, Prescott and Ryan. How many times did Rogers fail to take an easy pass to an open receiver last night? How many overthrown or poorly thrown balls? How many times did he drop back and look calm, confident, in control?

Its easy to say the coach should be fired and replaced when the team is losing. I've no idea how to judge a coach's performance other than by W's and L's. He'll last until the end of the season for sure, and if the team is .500 or worse I think Thompson will have a hard decision to make. In the meantime, who is calling for Brett Hundley to get a look? No one, I'm sure. Please don't claim the coach is unaccountable or untouchable but ignore the fact that we have a 2nd quarterback who could hardly do any worse that our starter, yet there is no one here or in the media seriously considering benching Rogers.

Not to reopen old wounds but I think it does.  I think their problems started when they failed to put that game away after Russell kept throwing it to the wrong jerseys.  Their offense went way too conservative in the 2nd half of that game. I believe a team follows their coaches lead.  When a coach is tight and nervous the team feeds off that. The whole team fell apart that game, and yes they had some terrible luck in the 4th quarter, but to me it starts with the coach. I still recall MM having the team fitted for rings before the Superbowl.  That team had swagger and played like it.  I'm not sure what happened to MM but he's been gone for quite a while. 

Rodgers needs to pull his head out of his ### too but like Saber said it's easier to find a coach than franchise QB.

 

[Man in the yellow hat]

His 1st round fails are stunning. I realize that many 1st round picks fail but TT's record is crazy

No they are not. No worse than other GMs, that is for certain. He's hit on his fair share.

Do some reading on his use of the draft, and you'll find he's generally regarded as one of the best: http://www.packersnews.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/2015/07/21/data-shows-just-good-thompson-draft/30475885/

2005 - Aaron Rodgers - Grade A

2006 - AJ Hawk - Grade C

2007 - Justin Harrel - Grade F

2008 - No 1st, traded. Jordy Nelson first pick. Grade A

2009 - BJ Raji - Grade A, Clay Matthews - Grade A

2010 - Bryan Bulaga - Grade B

2011 - Derreck Sherrod - Grade F (But injuries were the issue)

2012 - Nick Perry - Grade C

2013 - Datone Jones - Grade C

2014 - Ha Ha Clinton-Dix - Grade B

2015 - Kenny Clark - Grade Incomplete, but early returns look good.

He hit on Rodgers, Nelson, Raji, Matthews, Bulaga, Clinton-Dix, and it appears Clark.

Middle of the road on Hawk, Perry, Jones (Hawk is controversial, but held down the position for a long time. You can't suck and have that happen. Perry has played well the last two seasons. Jones I'm leaning toward a lower grade, but not a complete miss.)

Missed on Harrel, Sherrod

 

[sho nuff]

I can't agree on the roster and talent. I believe there is some talent here, and I don't think you can pin this loss on Thompson.

However, I am starting to wonder about what you stated here. I'm at a loss as to how you, as an NFL player, can be unprepared to play a game. No energy, and the team talked about it. They had nothing going, "no juice." That is unacceptable. 

Beyond that, the offensive game plan was awful. Stop trying to feature Richard Rodgers. He can't do it at this level, and I don't think I've seen a TE worse at blocking in the run game. Stop putting him in those positions.

Defensively, they gave them a chance. Two interceptions by Clinton-Dix, and the offense squandered the opportunities. You'd like to see the D close out the game better, but the offense put them in a very tough spot. 

Being unprepared for one of the worst teams in the league, and playing with no desire. That falls squarely on McCarthy. I've been a supporter, but I gotta believe his job is on the line. It'll be interesting to see how the team responds next week.

My biggest disappointment in yesterday is on McCarthy.

That offensive game plan was putrid.  They went back to the waiting for long devloping patterns again...crap that just hasn't worked.  And got away from what was working the last 3 games.

Montgomery comes out running well, and they barely get him the ball.  Adams doing well lately...and barely get him the ball.

It was like, lets try to get Jordy and Richard Rodgers going.

Defense gave them a chance early...but just could not get hom on the rush any time.  That part was tough to watch.

And Special Teams had their worst game of the year by far.

 

[Interseptopus]

One thing I'll note for now, watching Ryan/Martinez play... not perfectly, but mostly pretty well... why was no upgrade over AJ Hawk sought for almost a decade? Yeesh.

Thompson doesn't seem to want to admit he strikes out on 1st round/high draft picks. I'll stick to the first 3 rounds...

2005
Marvel Underwood S round 3

2006
AJ Hawk LB Round 1
Daryn Colledge G Round 2
Abdul Hodge LB Round 3

2007
Justin Harrell DT round 1
Brandon Jackson RB round 2
Aaron Rouse S Round 3

2008
Brian Brohm Round 2
Pat Lee CB Round 2

2009 had Raji, Matthews round 1 so that was a good draft but no 2nd or 3rds due to trading up

2010
Bryan Bulaga T Round 1 - Finally is doing something... took him 6 years
Mike Neal DE Round 2

2011
Dereck Sherrod Round 1
Alex Green RB Round 3

2012
Nick Perry LB Round 1
Jerel Worthy DE Round 2

2013
Datone Jones DE Round 1
Eddie Lacy Round 2 - So far I think you have to consider this to be a bust. 1 good season 2013 followed by a bad season and a 1/2 completed dt injury

2014 I think is a good 1-3 round draft

2015 I think the jury is still out

2016
Kenny Clark DT Round 1 - so far looks like a bust, jury is still out

You can't strike out that often on 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round picks and expect to be competitive 



 

 

[Interseptopus]

No they are not. No worse than other GMs, that is for certain. He's hit on his fair share.

Do some reading on his use of the draft, and you'll find he's generally regarded as one of the best: http://www.packersnews.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/2015/07/21/data-shows-just-good-thompson-draft/30475885/

2005 - Aaron Rodgers - Grade A

2006 - AJ Hawk - Grade C

2007 - Justin Harrel - Grade F

2008 - No 1st, traded. Jordy Nelson first pick. Grade A

2009 - BJ Raji - Grade A, Clay Matthews - Grade A

2010 - Bryan Bulaga - Grade B

2011 - Derreck Sherrod - Grade F (But injuries were the issue)

2012 - Nick Perry - Grade C

2013 - Datone Jones - Grade C

2014 - Ha Ha Clinton-Dix - Grade B

2015 - Kenny Clark - Grade Incomplete, but early returns look good.

He hit on Rodgers, Nelson, Raji, Matthews, Bulaga, Clinton-Dix, and it appears Clark.

Middle of the road on Hawk, Perry, Jones (Hawk is controversial, but held down the position for a long time. You can't suck and have that happen. Perry has played well the last two seasons. Jones I'm leaning toward a lower grade, but not a complete miss.)

Missed on Harrel, Sherrod

Completely disagree with a C for those 3. Should be Ds. 

Bulaga is a B? The guy didn't do anything his first 4-5 seasons

How can you say Kenny Clark looks good? The guy has done really not a whole lot this season. I'm often asking, is Clark even playing today? 

Look at my list of his Round 1-3 draft picks and tell me the guy does well on the "1st day" of drafting (1st day isn't what it used to be, so rounds 1-3 is what I'm referring to)

 

[Man in the yellow hat]

Thompson doesn't seem to want to admit he strikes out on 1st round/high draft picks. I'll stick to the first 3 rounds...

2005
Marvel Underwood S round 3

2006
AJ Hawk LB Round 1
Daryn Colledge G Round 2
Abdul Hodge LB Round 3

2007
Justin Harrell DT round 1
Brandon Jackson RB round 2
Aaron Rouse S Round 3

2008
Brian Brohm Round 2
Pat Lee CB Round 2

2009 had Raji, Matthews round 1 so that was a good draft but no 2nd or 3rds due to trading up

2010
Bryan Bulaga T Round 1 - Finally is doing something... took him 6 years
Mike Neal DE Round 2

2011
Dereck Sherrod Round 1
Alex Green RB Round 3

2012
Nick Perry LB Round 1
Jerel Worthy DE Round 2

2013
Datone Jones DE Round 1
Eddie Lacy Round 2 - So far I think you have to consider this to be a bust. 1 good season 2013 followed by a bad season and a 1/2 completed dt injury

2014 I think is a good 1-3 round draft

2015 I think the jury is still out

2016
Kenny Clark DT Round 1 - so far looks like a bust, jury is still out

You can't strike out that often on 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round picks and expect to be competitive 



 

Nice cherry picking. You can actually be competitive, because Thompson's hit rate is actually better than any other GM in the league when it comes to the draft. 

 

[Interseptopus]

Nice cherry picking. You can actually be competitive, because Thompson's hit rate is actually better than any other GM in the league when it comes to the draft. 

Cherry picking?!? All I did was list off his 1-3 round picks that did not succeed. How is that cherry picking? I said flat out I am listing guys he has failed on. Left off the ones that did well. Try reading

 

[Interseptopus]

Thompsons grade on his years of drafting for rounds 1-3 IMO
2005: A
2006: F
2007: F
2008: C
2009: A-
2010: C
2011: D
2012: D
2013: C
2014: A-
2015: I
2016: I

 

[sho nuff]

Packers have the 11th best record in the NFL since they lost to the Seahawks in the playoffs.  

They are the 2nd best team in the 4th best division since 2015.  I don't know how that is remarkable when you consider they have the best player in the NFL on their roster.  

They are middling.  No way around it.  

Psst...Rodgers has not been playing like the best player in the NFL for quite some time.

He is part of the reason for them not being as good too.

 

[Interseptopus]

Nice cherry picking. You can actually be competitive, because Thompson's hit rate is actually better than any other GM in the league when it comes to the draft. 

Link? 

 

[sho nuff]

Everything is linked within this franchise.  I tend to believe Ted gets to much of a free pass by fans.  The Packers have consistently had one of the youngest teams in the NFL.  From 2012 to this year they have ranked 5, 6, 6, 3, 3.  The only teams with a younger roster than the Packers this year are the Browns and Rams.  That should say something right there.  The insistence on the youth movement seriously sets this team back in a variety of ways.  It has been well documented by writers, analysts and executives that the Packers have to water down and spoon feed their offensive and defensive game plans for the young players.  Their installs take more time and consistently build through out the season (This is actually one reason to hold out hope and one of the reasons the Packers have always started slow.)  That falls just as much on Thompson as it does on the coaching staff.  Additionally, the youth really impacts the depth.  There are only so many UDFA's you can realistically rely on.  At some point, talent wins out.  The Packers also sit about $9 million under the cap at the moment, I am not sure if that has been adjusted for the Bahktiari signing or if his salary hits the cap next year.  That said, Casey Hayward signed a 3 year $15 million contract in the off-season and is currently tied with Marcus Peters for the league lead in int's.  I realize it's in hindsight but that is a really reasonable contract and something the Packers sure could use now.  

As far as McCarthy goes, I agree with most of what has already been stated.  His playbook lacks imagination and innovation and he has not adjusted to the defensive game plans or the talent he currently has on the team.  Things were looking up the last 2 games but yesterday was a failure in all 3 aspects of the game.  Very rarely does a team have a +2 advantage in takeovers and find themselves down by 14 points.  I have consistently heard other players and scouts state the Packers run one of the most vanilla offenses in the league.  Now (see above) this is somewhat an issue with the talent and youth on the team.  That said, I have been perplexed for several seasons by the new obsession with the"home run" shot and McCarthy's complete refusal to run any motion, trips, stacks, etc. to get his wr's open and create space.  

 I think the transition and influx of more veterans would provide a better base for McCarthy and the move form Thompson to Wolf is a little less "unknown" than whoever would come in and replace McCarthy.  Even if the Packers miss the playoffs this year, I don't think either of them will be fired.  In my opinion, they will need to miss the playoffs for at least 2 years.  

However, if we are discussing coaching changes, I wouldn't mind taking a look at Kyle Shanahan. He was able to adjust his offense to RG3 in Washington, which shows an ability to adapt and what he is doing in Atlanta this year is really impressive.  If he can turn Matt Ryan into an MVP, I would like to see what he could do with Rodgers.  The guy also has pedigree and has grown up in the NFL.  All that said, it's not happening

When you pay as much as we do to Clay and Aaron...they are going to have to be a young team.

 

[Man in the yellow hat]

Completely disagree with a C for those 3. Should be Ds. 

Bulaga is a B? The guy didn't do anything his first 4-5 seasons

How can you say Kenny Clark looks good? The guy has done really not a whole lot this season. I'm often asking, is Clark even playing today? 

Look at my list of his Round 1-3 draft picks and tell me the guy does well on the "1st day" of drafting (1st day isn't what it used to be, so rounds 1-3 is what I'm referring to)

Oh please on Bulaga. 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/free-agent-profile-bryan-bulaga/

"Bryan Bulaga struggled as a rookie and then turned into a Pro-Bowl level tackle in 2011. He then suffered two lost seasons via injury before finally hitting his groove again the second half of last season. If Bulaga can continue to stay healthy he has the ability to be a Top 10-15 tackle, and perhaps even more. He is also one of the few who plays well both in the run game and in pass protection. Green Bay will make a strong push to retain his services, but if he does hit the open market interest will be strong, especially with the lack of other options at tackle. It will be interesting to see what salary range he will command with the combination of his tough injury history and potential, being just 25 years of age."

A little early to say much of anything about Clark. He has made plays here and there, and his name has been called. He's also had his downs. Because he's a rookie.

I'm not getting into old, tired debates about Hawk. Guy was a pro that played a lot of football for Green Bay. He's not a D player, based on that.

Perry and Jones, maybe I'd agree. But Nick Perry has played some good football the last two years.

 

[Man in the yellow hat]

Link? 

http://www.packersnews.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/2015/07/21/data-shows-just-good-thompson-draft/30475885/

Try reading.

 

[sho nuff]

I think Dallas is the best team right now.  How the #### did that happen?  

Oline...then getting lucky with Dak.

 

[sho nuff]

How much is this from the complete lack of a running game? No QB would feel calm and confident dropping back to pass knowing the defense is fully expecting a pass because they have no running back. this team is set to fail due to the lack of depth at RB

Its been a while though...and the Oline has been giving him time.  Something has not been right with him missing some of the balls he has missed.

 

[Interseptopus]

http://www.packersnews.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/2015/07/21/data-shows-just-good-thompson-draft/30475885/

Try reading.

No, that only shows starts per pick. That doesn't show how successful those players are. You can start at a position and just be terrible at it. Using that link's logic Tony Moll was a great Tackle and a hit for Thompson

 

[sho nuff]

Completely disagree with a C for those 3. Should be Ds. 

Bulaga is a B? The guy didn't do anything his first 4-5 seasons

How can you say Kenny Clark looks good? The guy has done really not a whole lot this season. I'm often asking, is Clark even playing today? 

Look at my list of his Round 1-3 draft picks and tell me the guy does well on the "1st day" of drafting (1st day isn't what it used to be, so rounds 1-3 is what I'm referring to)

Hawk is easy a C...How is Perry a D right now?  Even Jones right now has come on enough to earn that C.  Perry is inching closer to a B as he goes on in his career.

 

[Man in the yellow hat]

No, that only shows starts per pick. That doesn't show how successful those players are. You can start at a position and just be terrible at it. Using that link's logic Tony Moll was a great Tackle and a hit for Thompson

Reading comprehension down, or just choosing to ignore it if it doesn't fit your view?

"In more than 50 research hours, Press-Gazette Media gauged 33 draft data categories for all 32 NFL teams. The data covers total games and starts from drafted players, snap counts from each of their first four seasons, retention of draft picks, their transition to starting roles and much more."

 

[Interseptopus]

Reading comprehension down, or just choosing to ignore it if it doesn't fit your view?

"In more than 50 research hours, Press-Gazette Media gauged 33 draft data categories for all 32 NFL teams. The data covers total games and starts from drafted players, snap counts from each of their first four seasons, retention of draft picks, their transition to starting roles and much more."

again... you can play in a game, have high snap counts, and be a terrible addition to the team. AJ Hawk is another example. The Packers are going to be inflated on this statistic because they 1) have had more picks than most teams in recent drafts and 2) are consistently a young team meaning younger players are put into starting and playing roles before they are ready or even if they aren't capable