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★★★Official 2015 Cincy Bengals-now with more K Webb (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter QuizGuy66
- Start date
bleachercreacher
Footballguy
It looks like Hue Jackson will be the new Offensive Coordinator.
trogg78
Footballguy
QuizGuy66
Footballguy
Really fired up about this. Dalton is entering year four now. Time to coddle/cajole him is over - I think Hue will be tougher on him and he's enough of a veteran now that that's the right approach. I think he'll use the running backs better as well - the Gio/Law Firm mix will be interesting. I really expect stand or fall from Dalton - it's the right time for a coordinator change.
-QG
-QG
Stillers Jr.
Footballguy
The "Cut Dalton" sentiment is funny.
Give the guy some time. He's a good QB, just needs to iron some things out.
If Cin cuts Dalton, the odds of finding a better QB are pretty slim.
Plus, say you find another good QB, you now have at least a year or two to wait for results. You gonna burn up 2 years of AJG's career in his prime?
Shore up the Defense, keep Dalton and maybe move on from Marvin.
Give the guy some time. He's a good QB, just needs to iron some things out.
If Cin cuts Dalton, the odds of finding a better QB are pretty slim.
Plus, say you find another good QB, you now have at least a year or two to wait for results. You gonna burn up 2 years of AJG's career in his prime?
Shore up the Defense, keep Dalton and maybe move on from Marvin.
Rushmore
Footballguy
QuizGuy66
Footballguy
So prior to Zimmer and Gruden, the last time a Bengals coordinator was hired by another NFL team to be its head coach was Bruce Coslet to the Jets in 1990. It's also the only time.
Only other similar case was after the 1982 season when Lindy Infante was announced as the head coach of the USFL expansion Jacksonville Bulls for the 1984 season. The Bengals fired Infante before the fall '83 season as a result.
Curious what team's had the most coordinators hired away as head coaches (directly) - my guess off the top of my head would probably be New England.
-QG
Only other similar case was after the 1982 season when Lindy Infante was announced as the head coach of the USFL expansion Jacksonville Bulls for the 1984 season. The Bengals fired Infante before the fall '83 season as a result.
Curious what team's had the most coordinators hired away as head coaches (directly) - my guess off the top of my head would probably be New England.
-QG
QuizGuy66
Footballguy
Looking at the way the Browns offseason has gone has really made me appreciate the way the Bengals have done things, particularly the last few years, under Marvin. We had both coordinators lead and proactively promoted guys we developed for the positions (well, with Hue it was more like stashed than developed) and similar were smooth in terms of filling out the rest of the staff. The Browns literally seemed to working backwards, hiring the waterboy first and the team president last.
-QG
-QG
QuizGuy66
Footballguy
Cuz we're all about resigning our own. Green, Burfict, Dalton - considerable $ contracts coming up.
-QG
doowain
Footballguy
Yeah, the defense has been just horrible.
The CBs are long in the tooth (Pacman, Newman) or snakebitten (Leon), but that can be addressed in the draft.
Timmay
Footballguy
I would of rather seen the Bengals let the Browns overpay for Hawkins and maybe take a stab at Steve Smith for a year or two as a slot receiver. Pairing him with Green and Marvin on the outsides. Supplies some veteran leadership too on a young WR corp.
Bengals already resigned Tate for the PR role, so I don't see Hawkins doing much in the return game.
Bengals already resigned Tate for the PR role, so I don't see Hawkins doing much in the return game.
odin33
Footballguy
Is Whit going to be able to go back outside to LT, or are we now in the market for a starter?
I know this draft is deep, but replacing 40% of your line (having missed out on all the premier FAs) with those being the 2 key positions of C and LT (not that I'm a fan of Cook) just has an ominous feeling to it.
Last thing we need is for that clock in Dalton's head to speed up and force more ill-advised throws.
I know this draft is deep, but replacing 40% of your line (having missed out on all the premier FAs) with those being the 2 key positions of C and LT (not that I'm a fan of Cook) just has an ominous feeling to it.
Last thing we need is for that clock in Dalton's head to speed up and force more ill-advised throws.
BigJohn
Footballguy
knowledge dropper
Footballguy
knowledge dropper
Footballguy
The depth of this roster is going to be tested
Genester
Footballguy
An interesting look at the Hawkins situation here. Looks like we put ourselves in the current situation over .8 million, which is not that significant given our cap state. If we wanted to save this little, it means we didn't value Hawkins anywhere close to the Browns offer, and there's no way we should match. Or did we goof?
http://espn.go.com/blog/cincinnati-bengals/post/_/id/6244/bengals-andrew-hawkins-browns-saga-lesson-learned
http://espn.go.com/blog/cincinnati-bengals/post/_/id/6244/bengals-andrew-hawkins-browns-saga-lesson-learned
Timmay
Footballguy
After the release of Cook, I was under the impression that they are going to go into camp thinking Pollack can take his spot at C. As for a LT, im not sure how they are going to answer that, I would rather have Whitworth at LG still. Originally I wanted the Bengals to go after a CB with their 1st round pick, now im not so sure they don't go after a LT.
Is the thumbs up for the extension or that it is only a 1 year extension?Marvin extended through 2015
-QG
QuizGuy66
Footballguy
So Mike Brown had one of his rare press avails with two big news nuggets. One being that they intended to excercise the 5th year option on AJ for a little over $10m guaranteed. The other was a slightly unclear statement about where things are at with Dalton (references to not wanting to overpay a guy and also that since the Dalton money has not been determined that that's part of the reason they've held back in free-agency a little and that this situation will not stay like that forever).
That this comes a month-and-a-half or so ahead of the draft seems to be no accident to me.
Basically I think the Bengals would like to extend Dalton for what they feel is the right price (which certainly won't be the top of the line QB-type salary). My guess is Dalton's agent is probably playing the "only QB to take the team to the playoffs 3 years in a row" angle and i aiming for a higher price. That is, I think there's almost certainly a good-sized gap there. I think that the way negotiations play out could have an impact on where the Bengals draft a QB this year. Campbell is a better backup than Johnson for sure and also is the kind of QB who could be a stop gap for a little while in a year's time if they opt for a young signal-caller again. I'm not saying this is what the Bengals want to do but I think that clearly Mike is indicating that they will not be overpaying Dalton and giving him some Romo-esque deal. I'm fine with this. If it ends up that Dalton's option gets played out I'm more than happy with him hitting the jackpot if he actually leads the team somewhere in the process. If they can lock him up for 2nd tier money I'm okay with this as well.
I'm also okay with the Green strategy. People love to beat on Mikey boy and a big part of that is simply track record. I'm also an NJ Devils fan and Lou Lamoriello is a hall of fame GM and for good reason. He often says "if you have time, use it" and I think that's what they are doing with Green. Green is going to make bank after his 5th year, no doubt about it. But Brown i absolutely right in that there is more time with him - there are guys coming up sooner. Ramping up AJ's cap hit early does not make any sense. I am sure I'm in the minority in this thread but I am very dubious of whether the $18m/year or so that an AJ could get on the market is really worth it for any position other than quarterback (please tell me the massive contract WRs that have made the Super Bowl in recent years or even made a deep run). I realize that if anybody is worth it, it's AJ, but at the same time I'm not 100% convinced that it's the right play. So again, in brief, I think excercising the option is 100% the right move. There's still time to use and other guys where the time is not as plentiful.
-QG
That this comes a month-and-a-half or so ahead of the draft seems to be no accident to me.
Basically I think the Bengals would like to extend Dalton for what they feel is the right price (which certainly won't be the top of the line QB-type salary). My guess is Dalton's agent is probably playing the "only QB to take the team to the playoffs 3 years in a row" angle and i aiming for a higher price. That is, I think there's almost certainly a good-sized gap there. I think that the way negotiations play out could have an impact on where the Bengals draft a QB this year. Campbell is a better backup than Johnson for sure and also is the kind of QB who could be a stop gap for a little while in a year's time if they opt for a young signal-caller again. I'm not saying this is what the Bengals want to do but I think that clearly Mike is indicating that they will not be overpaying Dalton and giving him some Romo-esque deal. I'm fine with this. If it ends up that Dalton's option gets played out I'm more than happy with him hitting the jackpot if he actually leads the team somewhere in the process. If they can lock him up for 2nd tier money I'm okay with this as well.
I'm also okay with the Green strategy. People love to beat on Mikey boy and a big part of that is simply track record. I'm also an NJ Devils fan and Lou Lamoriello is a hall of fame GM and for good reason. He often says "if you have time, use it" and I think that's what they are doing with Green. Green is going to make bank after his 5th year, no doubt about it. But Brown i absolutely right in that there is more time with him - there are guys coming up sooner. Ramping up AJ's cap hit early does not make any sense. I am sure I'm in the minority in this thread but I am very dubious of whether the $18m/year or so that an AJ could get on the market is really worth it for any position other than quarterback (please tell me the massive contract WRs that have made the Super Bowl in recent years or even made a deep run). I realize that if anybody is worth it, it's AJ, but at the same time I'm not 100% convinced that it's the right play. So again, in brief, I think excercising the option is 100% the right move. There's still time to use and other guys where the time is not as plentiful.
-QG
QuizGuy66
Footballguy
Here's a link to the cap-hits for starting QBs:
http://www.spotrac.com/rankings/nfl/cap-hit/quarterback/limit-50/
Right now Dalton's hit is about $1.7m (it's 34th in the league)
Alex Smith's is $8m and he's about 16th.
The top 10 are all over a $15m cap hit.
I'm not saying Dalton is top 10 by any means but in the world of agents negotiating contract I am sure that's the angle that his people are working.
If Dalton gets the mid-line money of $8m/year I think that's a liveable thing - a livable thing that still eats up a little over $6m in additional cap space.
If we're getting into an additional cap-hit of $10-$11m/year it makes things tougher - that's a lost player.
For the heck of it here's the top 50 cap hits by WR:
http://www.spotrac.com/rankings/nfl/cap-hit/wide-receiver/limit-50/
It's Percy Harvin and a lot of guys that missed the playoffs (with the exception of Bowe) in the top 11.
Welker at #13 with his $8m hit is probably the first guy that truly seems worth it. And that's way way way less than what AJ would be in line for. 4 years into that contract are we gonna be looking at a cap-hit albatross? It's a real question.
-QG
http://www.spotrac.com/rankings/nfl/cap-hit/quarterback/limit-50/
Right now Dalton's hit is about $1.7m (it's 34th in the league)
Alex Smith's is $8m and he's about 16th.
The top 10 are all over a $15m cap hit.
I'm not saying Dalton is top 10 by any means but in the world of agents negotiating contract I am sure that's the angle that his people are working.
If Dalton gets the mid-line money of $8m/year I think that's a liveable thing - a livable thing that still eats up a little over $6m in additional cap space.
If we're getting into an additional cap-hit of $10-$11m/year it makes things tougher - that's a lost player.
For the heck of it here's the top 50 cap hits by WR:
http://www.spotrac.com/rankings/nfl/cap-hit/wide-receiver/limit-50/
It's Percy Harvin and a lot of guys that missed the playoffs (with the exception of Bowe) in the top 11.
Welker at #13 with his $8m hit is probably the first guy that truly seems worth it. And that's way way way less than what AJ would be in line for. 4 years into that contract are we gonna be looking at a cap-hit albatross? It's a real question.
-QG
QuizGuy66
Footballguy
Conveniently Sportrac happens to have an article on Dalton.
It's sobering to say the least and makes the conundrum for the Bengals fully understandable:
http://www.spotrac.com/premium/research/nfl/contract-forecast-andy-dalton-438/
5 years, $94,066,451
Average annual salary $18,813,290, estimated $31,800,000 guaranteed
That would represent $17m/year off the table for other guys compared to a rookie signal caller. If Dalton had shown something in any of the playoff appearances it would be a much easier call. But he hasn't. Even if the Bengals let him walk I can certainly a see a team taking stab at him for real money.
-QG
It's sobering to say the least and makes the conundrum for the Bengals fully understandable:
http://www.spotrac.com/premium/research/nfl/contract-forecast-andy-dalton-438/
5 years, $94,066,451
Average annual salary $18,813,290, estimated $31,800,000 guaranteed
That would represent $17m/year off the table for other guys compared to a rookie signal caller. If Dalton had shown something in any of the playoff appearances it would be a much easier call. But he hasn't. Even if the Bengals let him walk I can certainly a see a team taking stab at him for real money.
-QG
doowain
Footballguy
They almost have to go cornerback in the 1st IMO.I agree to adding Manning for depth, but we need to get another solid young safety. My guess is Ha Ha is not going to be there at 24 and could be close on the kid from Louisville.I like that we picked up a safety - really opens up the possibilities in the draft for us
Intriguing that at least the possibility of a QB in round 1 if the right one falls to us has been whispered (per prisco).
Very interesting offseason.
-QG
QuizGuy66
Footballguy
Times really have changed as a Bengals fan. Draft day used to be crazy time with thoughts and speculation over what we should do. That's still there for sure but not at the same level it seems. Not that it isn't important but I guess when you stop being bad every single season you get more keyed up in September than in April May.
It also helps that while there are spots the Bengals need to improve the relative talent deficit isn't nearly as bad as it used to be.
I still think the chalk bet is what everyone thinks which is that the Bengals will go with their top-rated CB at their pick.
I'd probably say the 2nd-most likely thing is an offensive tackle.
I guess the only real shock of course would be a RB (nobody is drafting an RB) or a TE (a position I think they'll address but I think they'll look for the type of blocking TE that can be had later and really would we go TE in the first round 3 out of 5 years?
Anyway what do you think, Bengals fans? Let's liven up the joint
-QG
It also helps that while there are spots the Bengals need to improve the relative talent deficit isn't nearly as bad as it used to be.
I still think the chalk bet is what everyone thinks which is that the Bengals will go with their top-rated CB at their pick.
I'd probably say the 2nd-most likely thing is an offensive tackle.
I guess the only real shock of course would be a RB (nobody is drafting an RB) or a TE (a position I think they'll address but I think they'll look for the type of blocking TE that can be had later and really would we go TE in the first round 3 out of 5 years?
Anyway what do you think, Bengals fans? Let's liven up the joint
-QG
knowledge dropper
Footballguy
Dennard at 24. Could not have hoped for anything better. Best DB in draft
koreansteve
Footballguy
Love the pick. Value and need. Very lucky he fell to us.
As QG said, so much better than the 90s/early 2000s. Every pick used to be...TV commentators giggling at what new stupidity we'd pull and Berman saying "and now...the most interesting 10 min in sports".
I'm not as informed as most of you. What are our remaining "needs"? Seems like we don't have any gaping holes. QG mentioned QB, blocking TE, late-round WR. Tackle maybe? DE or safety? I'll let you guys fill me in.
As QG said, so much better than the 90s/early 2000s. Every pick used to be...TV commentators giggling at what new stupidity we'd pull and Berman saying "and now...the most interesting 10 min in sports".
I'm not as informed as most of you. What are our remaining "needs"? Seems like we don't have any gaping holes. QG mentioned QB, blocking TE, late-round WR. Tackle maybe? DE or safety? I'll let you guys fill me in.
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Good solid pick with Dennard.....Boring is not a bad thing, for those that remember the "curveball" of the Klingler pick!
I would really like to see the them address the gap at C today given Cook's release. Robinson did not exactly impress in Cook's absense, and you have the trio of Richburg, Martin, and Swanson out there.
I would really like to see the them address the gap at C today given Cook's release. Robinson did not exactly impress in Cook's absense, and you have the trio of Richburg, Martin, and Swanson out there.
