RB Alvin Kamara, NO (2 Viewers)

[Biabreakable]

Perhaps a better way to illustrate this point is that Kamara has a career average yards per reception of 8.5 three times as much as his ypr from this game.

Kamara has finished as the 2nd overall fantasy player once and the 4th overall fantasy player twice in his career without PPR scoring. So he didnt need PPR to be great.

With PPR though he outscores Derrick Henry by 45 points in 2020 and becomes a tier by himself even though Henry had a 2000k rushing season that year.

Kamara has never rushed for 1000 yards in a season in his career.

 

[KingPrawn]

We get it. You don't like PPR scoring. Imagine that though. A hobby actually called fantasy football doesn't reflect real football and show who the "good" RBs are.

 

[Insein]

Another day, another 12 catches for 91 yards and an extra 62 rushing. PPR machine.

 

[zoonation]

Another day, another 12 catches for 91 yards and an extra 62 rushing. PPR machine.

6th round absolute steal.

 

[zoonation]

Would have returned amazing value in the third round. Probably second round when the season is over.

 

[LawFitz]

Would have returned amazing value in the third round. Probably second round when the season is over.

PPR PPG he is now RB #4 overall, behind only CMC, Achane and Mostert.

 

[ProstheticRGK]

He’s a PPR cheat code! I was nervous the Saints would do bupkis tonight with both OTs out- thank god I had no choice but to start him!

 

[LawFitz]

Kamara has indeed lost a half step. As one of his very biggest fans who drafted him in 3/3 leagues I am playing in this year, my (#1 most important to me) eye test tells me so, especially when watching the younger ETN make the bursty cuts tonight that AK41 used to in his prime. Father Time somehow even tolls for 28 yr olds.

That said, he's never been quite the focal point of the Saints like his is now. Between Daverek Carr and their vanilla OC, all they have is boring BS offense, which in Daverek's case means 10+ check downs to AK per game, every game. In PPR, he is gold from pyrite for now, but I am more than a bit concerned if Daverek gets hurt - he pulled his groin tonight; and/or benched, if the losses pile - Fitzmagic was calling for it at halftime tonight.

 

[zoonation]

Kamara has indeed lost a half step. As one of his very biggest fans who drafted him in 3/3 leagues I am playing in this year, my (#1 most important to me) eye test tells me so, especially when watching the younger ETN make the bursty cuts tonight that AK41 used to in his prime. Father Time somehow even tolls for 28 yr olds.

That said, he's never been quite the focal point of the Saints like his is now. Between Daverek Carr and their vanilla OC, all they have is boring BS offense, which in Daverek's case means 10+ check downs to AK per game, every game. In PPR, he is gold from pyrite for now, but I am more than a bit concerned if Daverek gets hurt - he pulled his groin tonight; and/or benched, if the losses pile - Fitzmagic was calling for it at halftime tonight.

Well, he got run out of Vegas, of all places.

Kamara has lost a bit of juice for sure, but this oline is junk and he would be a monster behind a good one. Guy has 75 career tds at the RB position. Legend.

 

[LawFitz]

Kamara has lost a bit of juice for sure, but this oline is junk and he would be a monster behind a good one. Guy has 75 career tds at the RB position. Legend.

But we must play the dealt cards, not the ones we'd like. And with the HUGE positive of increased usage, we have the negatives of father time, vanilla coaching, Carr, and a bad OL. The latter may catch up to the former by weeks 15-17. I am watching cautiously, even as I gleefully welcome 30 pt zero TD PPR nights like tonight.

 

[Insein]

I'm actually surprised they didn't go to Jamaal Williams for those goaline carries. That isn't exactly Kamaras strength.

 

[BassNBrew]

Another day, another 12 catches for 91 yards and an extra 62 rushing. PPR machine.

6th round absolute steal.

Would have returned amazing value in the third round. Probably second round when the season is over.

7th here. Pretty much a no-brainer. FBG had him projected at 14 ppg, which was late 3rd round value.

 

[zoonation]

Kamara RB3 in fantasy points per game.

 

[FarFromHome]

Kamara RB3 in fantasy points per game.

Yes sir. Will be interesting to see how Williams fits in the picture for next game with no snap count.

 

[creepythinman]

Kamara RB3 in fantasy points per game.

Yes sir. Will be interesting to see how Williams fits in the picture for next game with no snap count.

I don't get the concern for a guy who looked like the worst RB in the world getting all the touches in first couple weeks.

 

[FarFromHome]

Kamara RB3 in fantasy points per game.

Yes sir. Will be interesting to see how Williams fits in the picture for next game with no snap count.

I don't get the concern for a guy who looked like the worst RB in the world getting all the touches in first couple weeks.

My concern is mild. Dude has a history of being a decent RB. Kamara so far this year hasnt been on a tear running the ball. We know Williams will eat into that a little. How much? Is he a handcuff or is he gonna get 50% of the carries? Who knows

 

[Doug B]

Is he a handcuff or is he gonna get 50% of the carries? Who knows

50% of the carries for Williams is virtually out of the question, especially as Kendre Miller is healthy and reasonably productive. There's no immediate path for Williams to become fantasy relevant right now short of multiple injuries.

 

[FarFromHome]

Is he a handcuff or is he gonna get 50% of the carries? Who knows

50% of the carries for Williams is virtually out of the question, especially as Kendre Miller is healthy and reasonably productive. There's no immediate path for Williams to become fantasy relevant right now short of multiple injuries.

Hopefully your right. My only interest is in Kamara. I don't care who else gets carries as long as Kamara gets 70% of em. All the catches. All of the redzone snaps and the entire offense moving forward is built entirely around him. Ha ha

 

[LawFitz]

offense moving forward is built entirely around him

It is, but with matchsticks.

 

[rockaction]

Guy seems to have a lot left. Wouldn't be surprised if we saw him around next year, too.

 

[zoonation]

Steal of the draft at RB

 

[FarFromHome]

Steal of the draft at RB

Yep. Folks newer to fantasy football draft looking at week 1. Seasoned folks look at later in the season. I reached in late 5th, early 6th for him in all drafts knowing missing 1st three games is nothing.

 

[menobrown]

Steal of the draft at RB

Especially if he helped you avoid picking the landmine of horrendous Rb's that were getting drafted in the area he was going.

Using FFPC ADP data for August here are the RB's chosen within 15 picks of where he was chosen, in order:

Mattison
Pierce
Javonte
James Cook
White
Dobbins
Sanders
Akers
Kamara
Conner
Montgomery
Swift
Pachecho

Just missing was the next 3 RB's chosen, Brian Rob, Gibson, Dalvin and Herbert.

 

[zoonation]

Insane contact balance

Imagine thinking this guy was washed? Also imagine if the Saints o-line could run block?

 

[ProstheticRGK]

Anyone complaining about Kamara still is sour grapes for not drafting him. He is

 

[Shawnky]

Insane contact balance

Imagine thinking this guy was washed? Also imagine if the Saints o-line could run block?

I never understood that take. It was definitely a response in only looking at stats and not watching his games. The play calling last year was atrocious. It hasn’t really gotten better, but his usage in the pass game has definitely seen an uptick.

 

[Shawnky]

Steal of the draft at RB

Agreed. I got him in the 7th of a 12 team ppr. I also got Jonathon Taylor. This league starts 1 RB and 1WR then 3 flex. I knew it would be a slow start to my season, but I'm currently sitting at .500. This due mostly to Taylor's limited use, Deebo's injury, and Goedert being somewhat a bust.

 

[FarFromHome]

Crazy it's been over a month of no activity in this thread.

Finally got some tds from him. Those that watched the game know he should of had 3 actually. No way they should have reversed the other one. Locked and loaed workhorse rb1 with a nice schedule to finish season.

 

[Hugsy_Malone]

Crazy it's been over a month of no activity in this thread.

Have him on two redrafts. They are both in contention and he and Mostert are by far and away the MVPs of those teams.

Have him in one dynasty now. Cost me a pretty penny and I might regret it, but I decided he was the guy. I think he has a year left and I deal in two-year windows for older guys.

This guy has been all that and then some. You figured he'd cede goal-line and short-yardage work to Jamaal Williams, but he hasn't so far. Williams looks pedestrian.

 

[zamboni]

Crazy it's been over a month of no activity in this thread.

Have him on two redrafts. They are both in contention and he and Mostert are by far and away the MVPs of those teams.

Have him in one dynasty now. Cost me a pretty penny and I might regret it, but I decided he was the guy. I think he has a year left and I deal in two-year windows for older guys.

This guy has been all that and then some. You figured he'd cede goal-line and short-yardage work to Jamaal Williams, but he hasn't so far. Williams looks pedestrian.

It’s all about volume for him, as he’s been pretty pedestrian on the ground. But volume is king, and with the mediocrity of Jamaal and injuries to (and perhaps lack of confidence in) Kendre Miller, he’s been getting it in all situations.

 

[Hugsy_Malone]

It’s all about volume for him, as he’s been pretty pedestrian on the ground.

True. The problem, as Saints fans will tell you (I'm thinking of Doug B on these here boards), is their line. None of the three have really popped eyes with their YPC this year. Kendre has been hurt seemingly all year, as you note, so I think it's more that than a reflection of confidence in him. He hasn't been at all healthy enough to warrant playing time. Can't play from the tub. Williams hasn't eaten into Kamara's time at all yet because he's not getting it done either. Seems to me they need to draft an offensive lineman (they're probably not drafting a QB with Carr's contract, though who knows about that situation and the Saints cap shenanigans . . .).

 

[KingPrawn]

IIRC Winston at QB instead of Carr is not good for Kamara's value.

 

[LawFitz]

It’s all about volume for him, as he’s been pretty pedestrian on the ground.

True. The problem, as Saints fans will tell you (I'm thinking of Doug B on these here boards), is their line. None of the three have really popped eyes with their YPC this year. Kendre has been hurt seemingly all year, as you note, so I think it's more that than a reflection of confidence in him. He hasn't been at all healthy enough to warrant playing time. Can't play from the tub. Williams hasn't eaten into Kamara's time at all yet because he's not getting it done either. Seems to me they need to draft an offensive lineman (they're probably not drafting a QB with Carr's contract, though who knows about that situation and the Saints cap shenanigans . . .).

Kamara will not be a Saint next season. They've run out of road to kick the can and will be making a number of cuts to notable players this offseason as a result. They are currently ~$90 MM over next year's projected cap. Cutting or trading Kamara post-June 1 would free up $12 MM of cap next year and another $19 MM in 2025. AK41 will be one of several big-dollar Saints that will need to go next year. They basically went all-in on Derek Carr for a single-season swing and the check is coming due this offseason.

 

[FarFromHome]

It’s all about volume for him, as he’s been pretty pedestrian on the ground.

True. The problem, as Saints fans will tell you (I'm thinking of Doug B on these here boards), is their line. None of the three have really popped eyes with their YPC this year. Kendre has been hurt seemingly all year, as you note, so I think it's more that than a reflection of confidence in him. He hasn't been at all healthy enough to warrant playing time. Can't play from the tub. Williams hasn't eaten into Kamara's time at all yet because he's not getting it done either. Seems to me they need to draft an offensive lineman (they're probably not drafting a QB with Carr's contract, though who knows about that situation and the Saints cap shenanigans . . .).

Kamara will not be a Saint next season. They've run out of road to kick the can and will be making a number of cuts to notable players this offseason as a result. They are currently ~$90 MM over next year's projected cap. Cutting or trading Kamara post-June 1 would free up $12 MM of cap next year and another $19 MM in 2025. AK41 will be one of several big-dollar Saints that will need to go next year. They basically went all-in on Derek Carr for a single-season swing and the check is coming due this offseason.

Great info man. Thanks. Ya. At 12 and 19 million each year it's seems like an easy decision for a team already in cap hell. Hopefully he can win me a title this year THEN switch teams.

 

[Hugsy_Malone]

AK41 will be one of several big-dollar Saints that will need to go next year.

menobrown has worked out the numbers a bunch of times. I looked at them and hold the opinion that if Kamara is still effective, he's still a Saint. There's something in the details. He'd be a 17 million dollar dead cap hit if they cut him after this year. He's a nine million dead cap hit in 2025.

Not sure. meno seems to think he'll be with the Saints and the way he argued it had me agreeing with him.

 

[zamboni]

I’m not close to the situation, but I could see the team restructuring Kamara to reduce his cap hit. He’s one of the few players that’s putting people in the seats.

Just in case though, I’m holding onto to my Kendre Miller dynasty share.

 

[LawFitz]

AK41 will be one of several big-dollar Saints that will need to go next year.

menobrown has worked out the numbers a bunch of times. I looked at them and hold the opinion that if Kamara is still effective, he's still a Saint. There's something in the details. He'd be a 17 million dollar dead cap hit if they cut him after this year. He's a nine million dead cap hit in 2025.

Not sure. meno seems to think he'll be with the Saints and the way he argued it had me agreeing with him.

Dead cap is not the relevant metric. Cap savings, even after dead cap is accounted for is the number to consider.

 

[ghostguy123]

AK41 will be one of several big-dollar Saints that will need to go next year.

menobrown has worked out the numbers a bunch of times. I looked at them and hold the opinion that if Kamara is still effective, he's still a Saint. There's something in the details. He'd be a 17 million dollar dead cap hit if they cut him after this year. He's a nine million dead cap hit in 2025.

Not sure. meno seems to think he'll be with the Saints and the way he argued it had me agreeing with him.

Dead cap is not the relevant metric. Cap savings, even after dead cap is accounted for is the number to consider.

So is he worth 2 million next year?

 

[LawFitz]

AK41 will be one of several big-dollar Saints that will need to go next year.

menobrown has worked out the numbers a bunch of times. I looked at them and hold the opinion that if Kamara is still effective, he's still a Saint. There's something in the details. He'd be a 17 million dollar dead cap hit if they cut him after this year. He's a nine million dead cap hit in 2025.

Not sure. meno seems to think he'll be with the Saints and the way he argued it had me agreeing with him.

Dead cap is not the relevant metric. Cap savings, even after dead cap is accounted for is the number to consider.

So is he worth 2 million next year?

Look up the cap savings if traded/cut post June 1st, then ask your question again.

 

[leftcoastheel]

It’s all about volume for him, as he’s been pretty pedestrian on the ground.

True. The problem, as Saints fans will tell you (I'm thinking of Doug B on these here boards), is their line. None of the three have really popped eyes with their YPC this year. Kendre has been hurt seemingly all year, as you note, so I think it's more that than a reflection of confidence in him. He hasn't been at all healthy enough to warrant playing time. Can't play from the tub. Williams hasn't eaten into Kamara's time at all yet because he's not getting it done either. Seems to me they need to draft an offensive lineman (they're probably not drafting a QB with Carr's contract, though who knows about that situation and the Saints cap shenanigans . . .).

Interesting takes. What RB would you rather be starting than CMC or perhaps Kyren? FF or IRL.

 

[Rookiefever]

I agree Kamara won’t be a saint next year. Even if the saints want him I doubt he agrees to any new deal. He pretty clearly wants out.

 

[ghostguy123]

AK41 will be one of several big-dollar Saints that will need to go next year.

menobrown has worked out the numbers a bunch of times. I looked at them and hold the opinion that if Kamara is still effective, he's still a Saint. There's something in the details. He'd be a 17 million dollar dead cap hit if they cut him after this year. He's a nine million dead cap hit in 2025.

Not sure. meno seems to think he'll be with the Saints and the way he argued it had me agreeing with him.

Dead cap is not the relevant metric. Cap savings, even after dead cap is accounted for is the number to consider.

So is he worth 2 million next year?

No. Just say what it is
Look up the cap savings if traded/cut post June 1st, then ask your question again.

 

[LawFitz]

AK41 will be one of several big-dollar Saints that will need to go next year.

menobrown has worked out the numbers a bunch of times. I looked at them and hold the opinion that if Kamara is still effective, he's still a Saint. There's something in the details. He'd be a 17 million dollar dead cap hit if they cut him after this year. He's a nine million dead cap hit in 2025.

Not sure. meno seems to think he'll be with the Saints and the way he argued it had me agreeing with him.

Dead cap is not the relevant metric. Cap savings, even after dead cap is accounted for is the number to consider.

So is he worth 2 million next year?

No. Just say what it is
Look up the cap savings if traded/cut post June 1st, then ask your question again.

I did. You ignored it.

 

[menobrown]

AK41 will be one of several big-dollar Saints that will need to go next year.

menobrown has worked out the numbers a bunch of times. I looked at them and hold the opinion that if Kamara is still effective, he's still a Saint. There's something in the details. He'd be a 17 million dollar dead cap hit if they cut him after this year. He's a nine million dead cap hit in 2025.

Not sure. meno seems to think he'll be with the Saints and the way he argued it had me agreeing with him.

Thanks for remembering my post.

I was more trying to push back against any notion they were going to move on from him at any point for this season, as many speculated here that they might cut or trade him prior to this season or that he was not in good graces with the team. I was pointing out how they handled his situation differently then say the Bengals with Mixon or the Vikings with Dalvin where they were asked to take a pay cut or get cut. I did believe and continue to believe that pushing salary to bonus made the commitment to him in 2024 stronger but I'm not willing to say he's for sure going to be back.

A lot up in the air with the Saints and could be a house cleaning of the staff so who knows what the possible next coach would want. What a lot of people may not realize is this current staff is almost the same staff as when Payton was the head coach. Kamara's been around most of this staff his entire career. If they kept their jobs I think they'll want to keep him, if the house needs to get cleaned he might very well be part of it.

One thing I would disagree with LawFitz on is that they exhausted their options. I see zero reason why they can't kick the can down the road another year if they want to and again I feel like if the current staff keeps their job they'll want to, coaches love familarity. Really hard to speculate on what a possible new regime with no ties to him might want to do.

 

[Pigskin Fanatic]

great post above from meno, and I feel like they are two pieces in the o-line away from being really really good. they certainly have the defense and skill position pieces to be great, yes including Carr and as much as I hate it for fantasy scoring the Carr+Hill combo has proven to be pretty good if Carr can get on the same page with his receivers. One more year with AK and everyone else + o-line improvements should equal playoff berth, so why not.

but as noted this will greatly depend on whether the coaching staff remains.

 

[LawFitz]

I see zero reason why they can't kick the can down the road another year

One more year with AK and everyone else + o-line improvements should equal playoff berth, so why not.

$88 MM reasons why not.

That said, they are either looking at cap hell for the next 2 years and then a fresh start; or their one other approach would be can kick one last time by restructuring most/all of their top players' 2024 salaries into bonuses, including Kamara's, which would leave them in cap hell for 3-4 years, starting in 2025, as wave after wave of void years pile up on them for players no longer on the team.

Aging roster, declining defense, skittish overpaid QB and a **** OL heading into 2024. Which path would you take?

New Orleans Saints 2024 Salary Cap

A real-time breakdown of the New Orleans Saints 2024 salary cap, including salaries, bonuses, reserve lists, dead cap, cap space and more.

www.spotrac.com

 

[Pigskin Fanatic]

I see zero reason why they can't kick the can down the road another year

One more year with AK and everyone else + o-line improvements should equal playoff berth, so why not.

$88 MM reasons why not.

That said, they are either looking at cap hell for the next 2 years and then a fresh start; or their one other approach would be can kick one last time by restructuring most/all of their top players' 2024 salaries into bonuses, including Kamara's, which would leave them in cap hell for 3-4 years, starting in 2025, as wave after wave of void years pile up on them for players no longer on the team.

Aging roster, declining defense, skittish overpaid QB and a **** OL heading into 2024. Which path would you take?

New Orleans Saints 2024 Salary Cap

A real-time breakdown of the New Orleans Saints 2024 salary cap, including salaries, bonuses, reserve lists, dead cap, cap space and more.

www.spotrac.com

yes, in the long term you are 100% correct (and by long term i mean two years) and i get that they should go the rebuild route. not arguing against your point and in fact they should have done that before taking Carr and not take Carr, but here they are. Taking this one more shot with what they have before going into the tank for a couple of years seem logical to me if there is a path to it, even with the dollars involved. it's NFL, they won't miss that money much.

 

[menobrown]

I see zero reason why they can't kick the can down the road another year

One more year with AK and everyone else + o-line improvements should equal playoff berth, so why not.

$88 MM reasons why not.

That said, they are either looking at cap hell for the next 2 years and then a fresh start; or their one other approach would be can kick one last time by restructuring most/all of their top players' 2024 salaries into bonuses, including Kamara's, which would leave them in cap hell for 3-4 years, starting in 2025, as wave after wave of void years pile up on them for players no longer on the team.

Aging roster, declining defense, skittish overpaid QB and a **** OL heading into 2024. Which path would you take?

New Orleans Saints 2024 Salary Cap

A real-time breakdown of the New Orleans Saints 2024 salary cap, including salaries, bonuses, reserve lists, dead cap, cap space and more.

www.spotrac.com

Basically a standard Saints off-season of cap management.

 

[LawFitz]

I see zero reason why they can't kick the can down the road another year

One more year with AK and everyone else + o-line improvements should equal playoff berth, so why not.

$88 MM reasons why not.

That said, they are either looking at cap hell for the next 2 years and then a fresh start; or their one other approach would be can kick one last time by restructuring most/all of their top players' 2024 salaries into bonuses, including Kamara's, which would leave them in cap hell for 3-4 years, starting in 2025, as wave after wave of void years pile up on them for players no longer on the team.

Aging roster, declining defense, skittish overpaid QB and a **** OL heading into 2024. Which path would you take?

New Orleans Saints 2024 Salary Cap

A real-time breakdown of the New Orleans Saints 2024 salary cap, including salaries, bonuses, reserve lists, dead cap, cap space and more.

www.spotrac.com

yes, in the long term you are 100% correct (and by long term i mean two years) and i get that they should go the rebuild route. not arguing against your point and in fact they should have done that before taking Carr and not take Carr, but here they are. Taking this one more shot with what they have before going into the tank for a couple of years seem logical to me if there is a path to it, even with the dollars involved. it's NFL, they won't miss that money much.

Based on the make up of the team as it stands today - heading into 2024 where there will be ZERO money to sign any big dollar FAs, so only their draft class and value FAs and UDFAs will be available to back fill this depleted roster.

Knowing that, would you take two years of cap hell in '24/25, but also multiple incoming draft picks unloading vets like Kamara and perhaps Lattimore and a few others - two years mind you, that would be bad/horrible in the standings, but would thus generate additional high draft picks, including a potential franchise QB spot; or

Would you push the chips in once more on this aging roster for 2024, and then end up with 3-4 years of cap hell afterward in '25-27/28? In one scenario, they are back to smooth cap sails in 2026; in the other it would be 2028 or 2029 before the slate would be clean. I don't know what they will do, but if I am them, no way am I gambling all those extra years' cap on Derek freakin Carr's age 33 season next year.

 

[jrt103]

He looked angry the whole game vs detroit. Seemed to be pretty upset that they kept taking him out at the goal line for Taysom