Roe v. Wade Overturned (2 Viewers)

[Snotbubbles]

You shouldn't. Say what you will about your old friend Toby, I am apolitical when it comes to interpreting and applying the law.  Always have been around here.

Anyway, I don't know if I agree with the content because it sounds like it was just a Twitter rant. I agree that some overzealous prosecutor could probably get a conviction on some sort of federal charge related to leaking the documents. I disagree with the people throwing a hissy fit over it, though. Gov't docs gets leaked to the press all the time. 

Fair enough.  What law school did you attend and what type of law do you practice?  If I going to put weight in your opinion, I would like to know your expertise.

 

[BladeRunner]

In a recent thread you said something nice about my posts in general but pointed out a certain tic of mine that you found annoying, which I appreciated. Now I'm going to return the favor.

You're one of my favorite right-leaning posters here, because you force me to really think through some of my assumptions. But you have this habit of lumping "the left" together as a unitary blob that acts in concert and where everyone who is even slightly left of center is responsible for everything the blob says or believes.

Imagine if I said you were a hypocrite because you claim to be pro-life even as "the American right" assassinates abortion providers and bombs clinics. Would you think that was a fair charge? Or would you rightly object that you don't support assassinations and bombings?

Lumping everyone together is basically a dodge that allows you to have an argument with the opponent you wish you were debating rather than the one you actually have. People are responsible for what they say and believe (and who they vote for). Period.

As to the issue at hand, I was born the same year as Roe, and in my lifetime I can't recall a single pro-choice protest that turned violent, nor a single abortion-rights group that has endorsed violence. If you know of one, feel free to provide links. But enough already with these overbroad assumptions about "the left".

Well said and i will take this to heart.  Tim isnt the only one being dramatic so i need to tone it down sd well.

 

[The Commish]

truth here - but https://adoptionnetwork.com/how-long-does-it-take-to-adopt-a-child/

"Usually, the time it takes to adopt a baby can be anywhere from several months to a year or more"

that has to change  - we're going to see many many more babies for adoption. When married, we'd considered adoption and looked into it, but the process was long.

it doesn't have to be

There's going to be a TON that has to change and in 25 years, I've seen not a single politician (granted there are many, and I might have missed a couple) address ANY of this.  It's a trainwreck waiting to happen.

 

[SoBeDad]

You can't just "get pregnant".  It requires a conscious act on your part.  Pro-life advocates believe in the right of choice, the difference is, they believe the right to choose happens prior to conception.

What about rape and incest and human trafficking?

 

[Stealthycat]

Unfortunately I'm well aware of this which is my point.  "Too bad, the whore woman should have thought of that before having sex".   It's about control women and so transparent. 

its about accountability and killing unborn babies - nice try though, regurgitating the same old same old

 

[2Squirrels1Nut]

Sorry, GB.  The Gilead party is going to pass on considering any of these.

That dog might actually go up in price. @kevzilla father will finally get paid for his years of accumulation and patience.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

You can't just "get pregnant".  It requires a conscious act on your part.

Tell that to Mary.

 

[Sand]

4. Free birth control, no prescription required. 

This is what PP should have been doing all along.

 

[Stoneworker]

I'm fine with if it's overturned if:

1. Capital punishment is also outlawed.  No brainer since this is all about respecting life. 

So in your world the life of an unborn child full of potential is of equal value to that of an adult who has taken another life?

Bizarre value system.

 

[Stealthycat]

There's going to be a TON that has to change and in 25 years, I've seen not a single politician (granted there are many, and I might have missed a couple) address ANY of this.  It's a trainwreck waiting to happen.

that's true - maybe this SC ruling will finally spur them all to do something important and valuable here

I can only hope, I can only do so much

 

[Yankee23Fan]

Tell that to Mary.

I laughed way, way, way too much at this.  Kudos. 

 

[John123]

Tell that to Mary.

I told it to Peter, Paul, AND Mary!

 

[Jackstraw]

The part about this that just makes me crazy is liberals have won the popular vote in SEVEN OUT OF EIGHT Preisdential elections. In a fifity fifty senate the Dems received 41 million more votes that the Republicans. Republicans just couldn't bear to have a hearing on Obama's Justice nomination 8 months prior to an election because reasons. They passed their own justice 8 days prior to an election where votes had already been cast to put 45 out of office. 

We have 6 out of 9 justices that are conservative about to pass a law that is widely unpopular with a big majority of the country with significant real life consequences. And they're just getting started. 

And everybody is cool with that? 

GREATEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD! If you don't like it Vote! Uhhh we did. We have been. NADA. Zilch. thanks for playing. 

Permanent minority rule is what we are looking at. 

 

[Sand]

There's going to be a TON that has to change and in 25 years, I've seen not a single politician (granted there are many, and I might have missed a couple) address ANY of this.  It's a trainwreck waiting to happen.

Immigration will have company, I guess.

 

[Stoneworker]

I’m amazed anyone could possibly believe this. 

Good luck building/maintaining an enduring democracy that has no integrity in its judicial system.

 

[moleculo]

You can't just "get pregnant".  It requires a conscious act on your part.  Pro-life advocates believe in the right of choice, the difference is, they believe the right to choose happens prior to conception.

No one chooses rape (including statutory).  No one chooses a pregnancy where the woman's health is in jeopardy.  No once chooses for contraception to fail.

 

[squistion]

link ?

157 Republicans Vote Against Deficit-Reducing Bill That Gives Free, Healthy Meals To Hungry Kids

https://archive.thinkprogress.org/157-republicans-vote-against-deficit-reducing-bill-that-gives-free-healthy-meals-to-hungry-kids-d64a391e68cc/

Mitch McConnell is reportedly opposing free school lunches: 'Kids are going to have less on their plates,' Biden's agriculture secretary says

https://www.businessinsider.com/mitch-mcconnell-opposes-free-school-lunches-for-kids-washington-post-2022-3

 

[Mile High]

Permanent minority rule is what we are looking at. 

I don't believe that. This country is going to split up in the future.

 

[Yankee23Fan]

Good luck building/maintaining an enduring democracy that has no integrity in its judicial system.

True. 

There should some privacy as massively important decisions are made without outside influence or control. 

 

[Witz]

biology is the answer - trust the science

what IS a pregnancy (normal, not ectopic or anything rare) ?  it HAS to be a living human woman and a living human unborn in the womb, correct ? that's it - period, end of story

a woman without a living unborn isn't pregnant - that's what abortion does, kills the living unborn

that's the right answer 

Sperm are alive yet there are no calls to ban masturbation right? It’s a cheeky comment but  that’s the point - once the sperm hits the egg it’s a living organism yet it’s not a child yet - it has the potential to develop into one but it’s really not at that point in time. 

 

[Snotbubbles]

No one chooses rape (including statutory).  No one chooses a pregnancy where the woman's health is in jeopardy.  No once chooses for contraception to fail.

That's why you carve out exceptions.  

 

[2Squirrels1Nut]

This is what PP should have been doing all along.

Yes they do but there's a lot more Walgreens, CVS's and other pharmacies around.  There isn't even close to enough access to birth control.  Then there are organizations like Hobby Lobby that won the right to not provide it under health insurance. 

 

[The Commish]

He explained it.  I didn't want to write the whole explanation.  Embezzlement as he described it was the taking of property for personal gain.

ok thanks....none of what was presented makes any sense to me at all.  Was out looking for some more info on this and ran across several Nina Totenberg comments on NPR  (this is just one) and she says there is nothing illegal about it being out there for us to read but that it does defy approved behavior among the Justices and their staffs.  She also asks some of the questions I did in my initial post.  

 

[Desert_Power]

I'm fine with if it's overturned if:

1. Capital punishment is also outlawed.  No brainer since this is all about respecting life. 

2. A massive spending bill is passed to take care of these children and their families so they don't suffer through abject poverty their entire lives. Again, we need to take care of these lives. 

3. A provision for exemption for rape and when the mother's life is in jeopardy. 

No chance of any of this passing at the federal level.

 

[Stealthycat]

The part about this that just makes me crazy is liberals have won the popular vote in SEVEN OUT OF EIGHT Preisdential elections. In a fifity fifty senate the Dems received 41 million more votes that the Republicans. Republicans just couldn't bear to have a hearing on Obama's Justice nomination 8 months prior to an election because reasons. They passed their own justice 8 days prior to an election where votes had already been cast to put 45 out of office. 

We have 6 out of 9 justices that are conservative about to pass a law that is widely unpopular with a big majority of the country with significant real life consequences. And they're just getting started. 

And everybody is cool with that? 

GREATEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD! If you don't like it Vote! Uhhh we did. We have been. NADA. Zilch. thanks for playing. 

Permanent minority rule is what we are looking at. 

Supreme Court doesn't rule based on liberal/conservative - they're suppose to support Constitution 

when they become a political wing of the Govt - all hope it lost

they are putting abortion into State hands - if your liberal/DNC voters are that wide spread nationally you'll not have to worry and abortion will be allowed everywhere

I think you're worried because abortion is NOT popular and the squeaky left wing wheels knows it, and they'll lose a big piece of their agenda

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

Which of these jobs do you think the babies can do? Maybe some farming?  The crawling could make them particularly well-suited for harvesting fruits and veggies, I guess. 

Transportation seems particularly dangerous IMO.

Sorry, can't resist -  https://www.amazon.com/Baby-Mop-Original-As-Seen/dp/B00NMWE4KU

 

[Stealthycat]

Sperm are alive yet there are no calls to ban masturbation right? It’s a cheeky comment but  that’s the point - once the sperm hits the egg it’s a living organism yet it’s not a child yet - it has the potential to develop into one but it’s really not at that point in time. 

I don't know what you're trying to argue

If you want to try and argue a pregnancy is a woman without a living human unborn inside her - lets here it

 

[Jackstraw]

Time for some serious sexytime boycotts.

 

[JIslander]

Supreme Court doesn't rule based on liberal/conservative - they're suppose to support Constitution 

when they become a political wing of the Govt - all hope it lost

they are putting abortion into State hands - if your liberal/DNC voters are that wide spread nationally you'll not have to worry and abortion will be allowed everywhere

I think you're worried because abortion is NOT popular and the squeaky left wing wheels knows it, and they'll lose a big piece of their agenda

Dude, we're at page 14 in 15 hours.

 

[The Commish]

that's true - maybe this SC ruling will finally spur them all to do something important and valuable here

I can only hope, I can only do so much

It's not on the SC to spur them on.  It's on us as constituents to hold them accountable.  The question becomes if they don't do what is right are we ready to hold them accountable?  I suspect the answer is "no" in this case....party over people and all that stuff...just like with immigration and the like.  The only people that are going to suffer are the tax payers and these babies.

 

[Sand]

Yes they do but there's a lot more Walgreens, CVS's and other pharmacies around.  There isn't even close to enough access to birth control.  Then there are organizations like Hobby Lobby that won the right to not provide it under health insurance. 

You're conflating two very disparate items.  I'm fine with more distribution points - that's great.  That is infinitely better than denying a child their right to a life.

The second doesn't come down to access, it comes down to forced support.  The courts found, rightly, that these places shouldn't be forced to support something that went against deeply held beliefs.  The whole "this limits access" was a transparent canard and continues to be so.  There was no limiting of access - it simply came down to who paid for birth control (it should also be noted that by definition the folks affected were employed, not indigent).

Interesting note - EWTN, who was prime in this case, is right along my most common cycling route.  Pretty unassuming building, to be honest.

 

[Stoneworker]

True. 

There should some privacy as massively important decisions are made without outside influence or control. 

Exactly. Confidentiality is paramount due to the inherent complexities of the issues. Revealing premature thoughts/opinions/positions outside a closed circle prior to full discussion and debate destroys the very purpose of the institution.

 

[Jackstraw]

I don't know what you're trying to argue

If you want to try and argue a pregnancy is a woman without a living human unborn inside her - lets here it

Well if that's what you believe. Then everybody has to live by it then. That's what makes America so great. 

 

[moleculo]

in the USA only then

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/09/us/ohio-judge-covid-vaccine.html

https://www.10news.com/news/local-news/states-have-authority-to-fine-or-jail-people-who-refuse-coronavirus-vaccine-attorney-says

First link is behind a firewall.  Second - here is a quote:

"...Fox noted authorities in the United States have never attempted to jail people for refusing to vaccinate..."

 

[Mookie]

Good luck building/maintaining an enduring democracy that has no integrity in its judicial system.

Exactly.  The Court has become a political institution.  Its integrity is shot.  Prior precedent and stare decisis mean nothing.  The political winds of the day will control and no "rights" are sacred unless they are explicitly spelled out in the Constitution.  Sodomy, contraception, gay marriage, interracial marriage and other privacy rights are all in jeopardy.  

 

[HellToupee]

Don't worry, the rich people will be able to get abortions still. 

We’re busing & flying border jumpers all over the country right now plus giving them a free smartphone and ebt card. I don’t think low income abortion seekers will have to worry 

 

[beef]

I don't believe that. This country is going to split up in the future.

Kind of has already but not fully realized since too many of the poor continue to be deceived by the rich in believing this split is R's vs. D's.    

 

[Witz]

I don't know what you're trying to argue

If you want to try and argue a pregnancy is a woman without a living human unborn inside her - lets here it

No arguing at all but weird that’s what you are reading - just discussing your belief (and if it’s incorrect absolutely correct me) that you are against abortion from the point in time the sperm hits the egg (which you’ve indicated are you are against abortion altogether). 

 

[moleculo]

I don't know what you're trying to argue

If you want to try and argue a pregnancy is a woman without a living human unborn inside her - lets here it

You don't get to count fetuses as dependants when you do your taxes.  

 

[squistion]

I think you're worried because abortion is NOT popular and the squeaky left wing wheels knows it, and they'll lose a big piece of their agenda

Really?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2021/06/25/majority-of-americans-support-abortion-poll-finds---but-not-later-in-the-pregnancy/?sh=26c147c25074

Majority Of Americans Support Abortion, Poll Finds — But Not Later In The Pregnancy

TOPLINE

 A majority of Americans broadly believe abortion should be legal and more than 60% believe people should be able to obtain abortions during the first trimester of their pregnancy, a new Associated Press/NORC poll finds—but support for abortion being legal drops significantly as the pregnancy continues, an issue that will soon be taken up by the U.S. Supreme Court.

KEY FACTS

The poll, conducted June 10-14 among 1,125 U.S. adults, found 57% of respondents believe abortion should be legal overall in all or most cases—with 23% saying it should be legal in all cases and 33% saying only in most cases—including 76% of Democrats and 36% of Republicans.

 

[Stealthycat]

It's not on the SC to spur them on.  It's on us as constituents to hold them accountable.  The question becomes if they don't do what is right are we ready to hold them accountable?  I suspect the answer is "no" in this case....party over people and all that stuff...just like with immigration and the like.  The only people that are going to suffer are the tax payers and these babies.

well that's true too - but a SC ruling would maybe jolt them, whether it should be required or not

the babies will be alive and have opportunity - that's better than being dead and ..well, dead

 

[quick-hands]

Tell that to Mary.

She agreed didn't she?

 

[Stealthycat]

Well if that's what you believe. Then everybody has to live by it then. That's what makes America so great. 

its biological fact

are you suggesting a pregnant woman has a non-living something in her uterus? dude ... that's called NOT pregnant

 

[squistion]

We’re busing & flying border jumpers all over the country right now plus giving them a free smartphone and ebt card. I don’t think low income abortion seekers will have to worry 

"We" meaning Republican governors like Greg Abbott?

 

[Stealthycat]

Really?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2021/06/25/majority-of-americans-support-abortion-poll-finds---but-not-later-in-the-pregnancy/?sh=26c147c25074

Majority Of Americans Support Abortion, Poll Finds — But Not Later In The Pregnancy

TOPLINE

 A majority of Americans broadly believe abortion should be legal and more than 60% believe people should be able to obtain abortions during the first trimester of their pregnancy, a new Associated Press/NORC poll finds—but support for abortion being legal drops significantly as the pregnancy continues, an issue that will soon be taken up by the U.S. Supreme Court.

KEY FACTS

The poll, conducted June 10-14 among 1,125 U.S. adults, found 57% of respondents believe abortion should be legal overall in all or most cases—with 23% saying it should be legal in all cases and 33% saying only in most cases—including 76% of Democrats and 36% of Republicans.

Polls can be manipulated - some polls still show Biden as doing a good job. I mean c'mon

But again, this is something that's going to be handed back to the States. If abortion is so well loved - it'll be allowed everywhere and your side gets your way

I think you know its not going to go like that though

 

[2Squirrels1Nut]

No chance of any of this passing at the federal level.

I agree yet it's all perfectly compatible with the argument, and necessary, if it needs to be overturned. 

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

This case has nothing to do with precedent. Precedent means that lower courts must follow the lead of higher courts. Both before and after this decision, assuming it becomes law, binding precedent will still be binding to the exact same extent, and non-binding precedent will still be non-binding to the exact same extent.

This case has a lot to do with stare decisis. There are like 20 pages about it in the draft memorandum. They can't be summarized on a bumper sticker.

 

[timschochet]

Exactly. Confidentiality is paramount due to the inherent complexities of the issues. Revealing premature thoughts/opinions/positions outside a closed circle prior to full discussion and debate destroys the very purpose of the institution.

Dude in a few days nobody is going to be talking about the leak. They will be talking about the decision to overturn Roe for years. 
The leak is so unimportant in the overall scheme of things. It’s a distraction. 

 

[squistion]

Polls can be manipulated - some polls still show Biden as doing a good job. I mean c'mon

But again, this is something that's going to be handed back to the States. If abortion is so well loved - it'll be allowed everywhere and your side gets your way

I think you know its not going to go like that though

Fine, since you always demand links, how about one from you showing a poll from a reputable polling organization that abortion is NOT popular among with the American public. 

 

[2Squirrels1Nut]

Good luck building/maintaining an enduring democracy that has no integrity in its judicial system.

I agree that turning a blind eye to perjury, ignoring court orders and allowing supposed ignorance to the law as an excuse to avoid prosecution has rendered the current system of laws useless.