Sand
Footballguy
Don is busy these days crucifying his own medical correspondents over CNN lying about horse dewomers.
He'll get back to the political gotchas soon enough.
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You vill sign ze apology (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter ekbeats
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He'll get back to the political gotchas soon enough.
Navin Johnson
Footballguy
In California this kid would be protected under Leonard's Law (see Chaze Vinci, Stanford this summer)
timschochet
Footballguy
I know you think that. But not so much, or it wouldn’t be a story.
It’s the same with mass shooting incidents. Liberals always freak out about those, including me, and they’re awful. But in truth they’re extremely rare which is why every time one happens it’s immediately a national news story.
Cowboysfan8
Footballguy
A trap house is where the kid sits that operates the clay pigeon thrower
You couldn’t have a very big party in there, but there’s nothing racist about it
You couldn’t have a very big party in there, but there’s nothing racist about it
The broader issue of free speech on college campuses is as real as a heart attack.
Remember the Halloween controversy at Yale? Hard to believe that was 5 years ago. https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/my-halloween-email-led-to-a-campus-firestorm--and-a-troubling-lesson-about-self-censorship/2016/10/28/70e55732-9b97-11e6-a0ed-ab0774c1eaa5_story.html
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Sand
Footballguy
These folks are the new Puritans. I hesitate to think what role these folks would be playing in a repressive regime.
fatguyinalittlecoat
Footballguy
I read some other articles about this story and the one posted leaves out some information that some people might find relevant. For example, in this op-ed from The Hill, I was able to read more of what the controversial invite said:
It does seem like the references to Popeye's chicken and "basic-#####", in addition to the use of the term "trap house" might raise some eyebrows and suggest some racially-coded language. And I don't think it's irrelevant that the Federalist Society is a co-host -- I think it's conservative groups like the Federalist Society that have done campus stunts elsewhere like "affirmative action" bake sales, etc. None of this is to say that the kid is a racist or that he did anything wrong. But to me, it makes the reaction to the invite more understandable than if it was just a reference to "trap house" without the other stuff.
I haven't listened to the audio, but it also seems to me that the administrator's advice to apologize because lawyers have to be admitted to the bar might not have been a threat at all. Nine different students apparently complained about the invite. Any one of those students could potentially contact the state bar that this kid decides to apply to and cause him problems. An apology, whether he thinks it is sincere or not, might have helped to diminish the likelihood of that happening.
My overall conclusion based on the partial info I've read is that the administrators overreacted, but also that this guy is making a big deal out of a situation where he didn't actually face any negative consequences from the school. Sometimes it's OK to just apologize for making people upset, even if you didn't intend to do anything wrong AND you think they're being unreasonable. In my view our society doesn't have too many people apologizing for stuff, it has too few.
It does seem like the references to Popeye's chicken and "basic-#####", in addition to the use of the term "trap house" might raise some eyebrows and suggest some racially-coded language. And I don't think it's irrelevant that the Federalist Society is a co-host -- I think it's conservative groups like the Federalist Society that have done campus stunts elsewhere like "affirmative action" bake sales, etc. None of this is to say that the kid is a racist or that he did anything wrong. But to me, it makes the reaction to the invite more understandable than if it was just a reference to "trap house" without the other stuff.
I haven't listened to the audio, but it also seems to me that the administrator's advice to apologize because lawyers have to be admitted to the bar might not have been a threat at all. Nine different students apparently complained about the invite. Any one of those students could potentially contact the state bar that this kid decides to apply to and cause him problems. An apology, whether he thinks it is sincere or not, might have helped to diminish the likelihood of that happening.
My overall conclusion based on the partial info I've read is that the administrators overreacted, but also that this guy is making a big deal out of a situation where he didn't actually face any negative consequences from the school. Sometimes it's OK to just apologize for making people upset, even if you didn't intend to do anything wrong AND you think they're being unreasonable. In my view our society doesn't have too many people apologizing for stuff, it has too few.
Zow
Footballguy
It may seem that way, but in reality a "good lawyer" is able to weigh the totality of certain circumstances, analyze the odds/chances for success, and effectively communicate pragmatic advice.sounds to me like the makings of a good lawyer. You know, someone that understands his rights and is willing to fight for them.
Lawyers that advise their clients to fight on "principle" may seem great in movies ("I want you to let them be judged!") but in reality are doing a disservices to their clients.
They’d be the Stasi. Signing pre-written confessions… Hard to believe this kind of stuff is not only tolerated, it’s embraced.
Grace Under Pressure
Footballguy
Ah the "culture wars", what would we do without them.
Is there a reason why the actual invitation isn't posted somewhere? If it included things like "Popeye's fried chicken" then c'mon man, do better. If it's innocent and he's being railroaded, I'd be happy to say so.
Yale
Pre-writing apology letters, not a good look.
Is there a reason why the actual invitation isn't posted somewhere? If it included things like "Popeye's fried chicken" then c'mon man, do better. If it's innocent and he's being railroaded, I'd be happy to say so.
Yale
Pre-writing apology letters, not a good look.
Zow
Footballguy
Yeah the "on prinicple" cases result in two winners: the lawyers on either side (provided they adequately took a sizable retainer).
Zow
Footballguy
I listened to the linked audio. The student doesn't deny that he included things like "fried chicken" and "basic #####" so i think we can reasonably infer they were included.Ah the "culture wars", what would we do without them.
Is there a reason why the actual invitation isn't posted somewhere? If it included things like "Popeye's fried chicken" then c'mon man, do better. If it's innocent and he's being railroaded, I'd be happy to say so.
Yale
After listening to the audio and reading what's been linked in here, I view this situation akin to the Kavanagh nominations. I do not conclude that it's more likely than not that Kavanagh sexually assaulted somebody back in high school nor do i think it's more likely than not that this student intended to be racist. However, in both circumstances, I think both persons responded very poorly to the accusations and acted in ways inconistent in the manner and/or decorum of a justice and/or a highly touted law school prospect.
Focusing back on the student, if he applied to my office I would vote not to hire him - Yale degree or not. I assume many other firms will feel the same. And he'll be kicking himself for acting "on principle."
STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
Summer Wheat
Footballguy
I agree. If there is a argument in a local grocery store between two people of different races it can make the national news at times. Media has an insatiable appetite for these types of stories even though many are meaningless in day to day life and happen all the time with people of the same race.
Snotbubbles
Footballguy
Hypothetical question. Imagine back in the early 1990s a politician, let's say a Senator from Delaware, armed with the knowledge that few white people associated with "trap" houses where you could buy crack, drafted language in a crime bill that gave harsher criminal penalties for crack than say cocaine, a substance that a lot of white people did have associated with them. Would you say that was racists?
Cowboysfan8
Footballguy
Zow
Footballguy
No. That isn't even a factor. I've not concluded he's racist.
It's because the student appears to lack the ability to objectively gauge the situation and determine the best course for a favorable outcome for himself.
Zow
Footballguy
I'm not sure why you think it's "icky."
Do you think it's wise to pay somebody several thousands of dollars to win mere hundreds because it's on principle?
(Also, to be clear, it's solely up to a litigant whether to settle a matter or pursue a matter or whatever. Lawyers merely advise the client about the pros and cons of doing so and the client can either take or leave the advice).
STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
Zow
Footballguy
In the practice of law a lawyer has an affirmative duty to the client (absent a few extreme exceptions).
Zow
Footballguy
As I understand it, he's refusing to give any sort of apology and responded saying he won't. If I have that wrong, please correct me.
-fish-
Footballguy
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-fish-
Footballguy
Whole thing reminds me of Fuzzy Zoeller saying Tiger Woods shouldn't serve fried chicken and collard greens at the next year's Master's dinner.
It was a bad racist joke that didn't land, and he needed to apologize for it. In this case, you have a Yale law student who literally signed a contract saying he would adhere to the school's code of conduct, and he's being told he needs to apologize for it. It's not only a simple issue of taking responsibility, but a contractual duty. This isn't about being "woke". It's about being stupid.
It was a bad racist joke that didn't land, and he needed to apologize for it. In this case, you have a Yale law student who literally signed a contract saying he would adhere to the school's code of conduct, and he's being told he needs to apologize for it. It's not only a simple issue of taking responsibility, but a contractual duty. This isn't about being "woke". It's about being stupid.
djmich
Footballguy
So it's not that he attacked anyone, or yelled or displayed some other unruly action in response to be accused of something. What made his response poor...was that he reasonably defended himself.
Zow
Footballguy
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
Interchangeable really.
Sand
Footballguy
What we've seen in this thread is that the definition of this term has changed over the years. Woke Yale leadership has decided to assume the worst possible and least current definition. At this point Yale has chosen this definition and painted the scarlet letter TRAP on the student's head. I don't think it's the student being the stupid one here.
djmich
Footballguy
Godsbrother
Footballguy
Situations like this have always happened. They were isolated events that came and went and no one but the people involved knew or cared.
Now because of social media and biased media sources these things have become "news" and thousands of people that have no inside knowledge have to voice their opinion on the matter.
Now because of social media and biased media sources these things have become "news" and thousands of people that have no inside knowledge have to voice their opinion on the matter.
djmich
Footballguy
Students and administrators always threw fits if someone sent an invite out for a party at a trap house with popeyes fried chicken?
Navin Johnson
Footballguy
-fish-
Footballguy
djmich
Footballguy
Godsbrother
Footballguy
Navin Johnson
Footballguy
rockaction
Footballguy
This gets worse. KC Johnson and other media members are on the case. Apparently the Federalist Society had nothing to do with the invite, but the head of it was asked and threatened by the powers that be that they must apologize or else.
I would mail them back my degree if I was an alumnus.
https://davidlat.substack.com/p/yale-law-school-and-the-federalist
I would mail them back my degree if I was an alumnus.
https://davidlat.substack.com/p/yale-law-school-and-the-federalist
Nugget
Footballguy
-fish-
Footballguy
So they should apologize for demanding an apology, but demanding an apology is fundamentally wrong.
Seems like a Yale Law School education ain't what it used to be.
Sand
Footballguy
Make them apologize and change their name first since Yale was a slave owner.
Then defund them.
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