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*** OFFICIAL *** COVID-19 CoronaVirus Thread. Fresh epidemic fears as child pneumonia cases surge in Europe after China outbreak. NOW in USA (7 Viewers)

jobarules said:
OK now imagine you are one of the 38.4 MILLION people who have already had an infection.
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More than 38.4m people have been infected already.  That number is just how many have actually TESTED positive, no?

 
170k cases and 1,200+ deaths today.  Stating the obvious that we need things to calm down and some signs in certain areas point towards that but it we do have the same type of bell curve we could see some states with high numbers as we get in to colder weather.  Even with the vaccines and some measures we've averaged about 1k deaths a day for 2 weeks.  Don't think we will slow down until we get to 2k-3k deaths a day.  I've always been baffled by the folks not taking the vaccine but how someone wouldn't at least question whether it's the right decision at this point seems absolutely crazy to me.

 
AAABatteries said:
170k cases and 1,200+ deaths today.  Stating the obvious that we need things to calm down and some signs in certain areas point towards that but it we do have the same type of bell curve we could see some states with high numbers as we get in to colder weather.  Even with the vaccines and some measures we've averaged about 1k deaths a day for 2 weeks.  Don't think we will slow down until we get to 2k-3k deaths a day.  I've always been baffled by the folks not taking the vaccine but how someone wouldn't at least question whether it's the right decision at this point seems absolutely crazy to me.
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If there wasn't a vaccine.  We all die?

 
I have to say I’m not 100% behind the need for widespread booster shots. I’d be very curious to see the data they are using to come up with the recommendation. Obliviously immunocompromised and those with the highest risk but everyone else? I’m not sure yet.

It’s a thought I had today after giving a few 1st doses and telling them that they can make an appointment or just walk in for their 2nd dose. But will they? With the high demand for boosters at the end of September will that come at the cost of 1st or 2nd doses for someone else. 

Imagine a vaccine skeptic or someone getting it due to a mandate. Do we want them fighting for an appointment spot or waiting in long lines? That’s how we’ll lose them.

 
Biff84 said:
I have to say I’m not 100% behind the need for widespread booster shots. I’d be very curious to see the data they are using to come up with the recommendation. Obliviously immunocompromised and those with the highest risk but everyone else? I’m not sure yet.

It’s a thought I had today after giving a few 1st doses and telling them that they can make an appointment or just walk in for their 2nd dose. But will they? With the high demand for boosters at the end of September will that come at the cost of 1st or 2nd doses for someone else. 

Imagine a vaccine skeptic or someone getting it due to a mandate. Do we want them fighting for an appointment spot or waiting in long lines? That’s how we’ll lose them.
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This is done differently I think by state.   When you get your first you are automatically scheduled for your second at the appropriate interval.  And they would only schedule based on number of available doses

I haven't looked at or considering a booster. Even if the rec is 6 months I have plenty of time to think on it   

 
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ignatiusjreilly said:
Wow, this thread is bonkerballs:

Read the whole thing and seriously, people, lay off the horse gel.
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There are more "doctors" prescribing this stuff than just that one site, and I'm not sure the dots connect perfectly from "This scam site is expensive" to "everyone get horse goo"  but it's awesome.   

The popup screen of "what fake medicine do you want" is pretty awesome though.  

 
AAABatteries said:
170k cases and 1,200+ deaths today.  Stating the obvious that we need things to calm down and some signs in certain areas point towards that but it we do have the same type of bell curve we could see some states with high numbers as we get in to colder weather.  
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The weather thing hasn't really held up.  I mean we are going into our second winter with this and finishing our first summer in the northern hemisphere, it's never lined up well.  This is a super spreader event, not a weather driven phenomenon like the flu.

The very largest concern are red state rural areas IMO.  If you think red state cities are doing bad on vax, just wait till you get a little outside of them. 

 
jobarules said:
Those who have been previously infected have the benefit of waiting until the science is more clear
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While the science could change (or at least our understanding of it), why would you go this route if doctors are currently recommending to get the vaccine even if you were infected? 

Those thinking they know better and have "benefit of waiting" are basically saying they have a better understanding of the virus and vaccines and immunity than the consensus of infectious disease doctors that are saying you should still get the vaccine even if you had the infection.

They wouldn't recommend that at this point if there wasn't good reason to, thought it would be harmful, or thought there wasn't any benefit.

Thinking that waiting is "ok" despite medical advice to not wait is part of the problem that we are currently in where so many aren't following the advice of those that have the expertise to offer that advice.

 
culdeus said:
The weather thing hasn't really held up.  I mean we are going into our second winter with this and finishing our first summer in the northern hemisphere, it's never lined up well.  This is a super spreader event, not a weather driven phenomenon like the flu.

The very largest concern are red state rural areas IMO.  If you think red state cities are doing bad on vax, just wait till you get a little outside of them. 
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The outside is the point about weather - seems like a race between Delta burning through and everyone indoors all the time.

 
gianmarco said:
While the science could change (or at least our understanding of it), why would you go this route if doctors are currently recommending to get the vaccine even if you were infected? 

Those thinking they know better and have "benefit of waiting" are basically saying they have a better understanding of the virus and vaccines and immunity than the consensus of infectious disease doctors that are saying you should still get the vaccine even if you had the infection.

They wouldn't recommend that at this point if there wasn't good reason to, thought it would be harmful, or thought there wasn't any benefit.

Thinking that waiting is "ok" despite medical advice to not wait is part of the problem that we are currently in where so many aren't following the advice of those that have the expertise to offer that advice.
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Doctors are just "checking boxes" by saying to get the vaccine. Of course everyone knows better including you. Name a single virus that we don't gain at least some form of natural immunity against. In the entire history of viruses are there any? It's common sense.

 
jobarules said:
Doctors are just "checking boxes" by saying to get the vaccine. Of course everyone knows better including you. Name a single virus that we don't gain at least some form of natural immunity against. In the entire history of viruses are there any? It's common sense.
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That's not the real concern here, there is a lack of consensus around how the natural immunity works vs. the vaccinated.  Both likely provide different things.

This is as I'm sure, being amplified on all the anti-vax facebook sites.  Here is a measured response to what I'm sure every karen is going on about right now.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021/08/having-sars-cov-2-once-confers-much-greater-immunity-vaccine-no-infection-parties

“We continue to underestimate the importance of natural infection immunity … especially when [infection] is recent,” says Eric Topol, a physician-scientist at Scripps Research. “And when you bolster that with one dose of vaccine, you take it to levels you can’t possibly match with any vaccine in the world right now.”

 
jobarules said:
Doctors are just "checking boxes" by saying to get the vaccine. Of course everyone knows better including you. Name a single virus that we don't gain at least some form of natural immunity against. In the entire history of viruses are there any? It's common sense.
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Millions of doctors across the globe...all checking boxes...

Do you read what you type and then extrapolate that out to realize what it would mean if true?

Side note, in the history of viruses are there any that have done what this one is doing in the way it attacks the body differently across all age/weight/health spectrums?

 
beer 30 said:
Millions of doctors across the globe...all checking boxes...

Do you read what you type and then extrapolate that out to realize what it would mean if true?

Side note, in the history of viruses are there any that have done what this one is doing in the way it attacks the body differently across all age/weight/health spectrums?
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Of course there were a lot more deadly viruses than covid

 
culdeus said:
That's not the real concern here, there is a lack of consensus around how the natural immunity works vs. the vaccinated.  Both likely provide different things.

This is as I'm sure, being amplified on all the anti-vax facebook sites.  Here is a measured response to what I'm sure every karen is going on about right now.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021/08/having-sars-cov-2-once-confers-much-greater-immunity-vaccine-no-infection-parties

“We continue to underestimate the importance of natural infection immunity … especially when [infection] is recent,” says Eric Topol, a physician-scientist at Scripps Research. “And when you bolster that with one dose of vaccine, you take it to levels you can’t possibly match with any vaccine in the world right now.”
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So catch covid, then get the vaccine for the most protection!!

 
Rich Conway said:
I think my favorite part is when "I'm just asking questions" morphs into "I know better than the professionals and experts", which seems to happen every single time.
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Right wing media has weaponized that type of thinking.  Basically, if I don't get the answer to the question I'm asking I'm just going to assume you don't have the answer I wanted all along and keep looking for someone even dumber to give it to me.  Whether that be 4chan or a witch doctor, or a veterinarian.  

 
culdeus said:
Right wing media has weaponized that type of thinking.  Basically, if I don't get the answer to the question I'm asking I'm just going to assume you don't have the answer I wanted all along and keep looking for someone even dumber to give it to me.  Whether that be 4chan or a witch doctor, or a veterinarian.  
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This is all true. And it works both ways. I posted an interesting study in here yesterday and you subsequently stamped your feet and implied I was some right-wing troll that wants to post conspiracy theories on FB. Despite the fact that this study has been picked up by several thinkers across the spectrum as something with merit and deserving of further thought.

Dialogue is good, even if we have to suffer the crazies.

 
Battersbox said:
This is all true. And it works both ways. I posted an interesting study in here yesterday and you subsequently stamped your feet and implied I was some right-wing troll that wants to post conspiracy theories on FB. Despite the fact that this study has been picked up by several thinkers across the spectrum as something with merit and deserving of further thought.

Dialogue is good, even if we have to suffer the crazies.
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This is another right wing narrative, they cherry pick one line item or make some sort of cognitive leap.  In this case, the leap is "I should seek out getting infected" to reach the conclusion they want, but don't actually say this.  As if it it's not a requirement somehow.

 
jobarules said:
Doctors are just "checking boxes" by saying to get the vaccine. Of course everyone knows better including you. Name a single virus that we don't gain at least some form of natural immunity against. In the entire history of viruses are there any? It's common sense.
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You have a really low opinion of doctors and a self-inflated opinion of yourself and your knowledge about this topic.

 
belljr said:
This is done differently I think by state.   When you get your first you are automatically scheduled for your second at the appropriate interval.  And they would only schedule based on number of available doses

I haven't looked at or considering a booster. Even if the rec is 6 months I have plenty of time to think on it   
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It just depends on where you got the vaccine. Early on we scheduled everyone’s second appointment because we had limited appointment slots. When it opened up in the summer just about everyone went to walk-in shots and we stopped scheduling appointments because people stopped showing up since they could go anywhere.

We’re almost certainly going back to limited appointments. But we have been given no guidance on that. We already have people signing up for appointments on Sept 20th before we know what’s going to happen.

 
culdeus said:
This is another right wing narrative, they cherry pick one line item or make some sort of cognitive leap.  In this case, the leap is "I should seek out getting infected" to reach the conclusion they want, but don't actually say this.  As if it it's not a requirement somehow.
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Dialogue and further inspection is a right-wing narrative? 

The results of that study do not imply one should seek out infection. The results do however suggest that those who were infected in the past might benefit from one shot instead of 2. 

But I guess Topol, Wachter, Gandhi, etc. are all right-wing now since they don't agree with Culdeus' preconceived notions. 

 
Battersbox said:
Dialogue and further inspection is a right-wing narrative? 

The results of that study do not imply one should seek out infection. The results do however suggest that those who were infected in the past might benefit from one shot instead of 2. 

But I guess Topol, Wachter, Gandhi, etc. are all right-wing now since they don't agree with Culdeus' preconceived notions. 
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My very first take of this was exactly that, and that it really only has a meaningful impact for 3rd world countries to justify single shots for places where it's difficult to reach people logistically.  That still holds up.  It has no impact for 1st world where we can give 2 doses (or ultimately, 3) to everyone at will.  

 
culdeus said:
Leeroy Jenkins said:
Man, I just keep thinking back to how the pandemic felt essentially over for vaccinated people in June -- even with unvaxxed kids largely -- until this damn Delta variant threw all data to date out the window.
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It still is over for vaccinated people.  
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Kinda, but not really. It's not over until virtually no one has to do anything to respond to the threat of COVID in their daily lives.

 
Leeroy Jenkins said:
It isn't really if I can get a breakthrough case and infect my unvaccinated kids.  In June, I wasn't worried about getting it or being able to spread it really.
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Then you aren't "vaccinated" and it's not over.  For those that don't have such a concern, it remains over.  

 
culdeus said:
Then you aren't "vaccinated" and it's not over.  For those that don't have such a concern, it remains over.  
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Not picking on you GB, but this is at least the third time you've declared the pandemic over. Meanwhile hospitals in my region are JUST below the all-time high and schools just opened this past week. Pretty sure your area hospitals aren't doing too hot either. Also those of us that were vaccinated early on (February-March window) are paying close attention to the data coming out about waning antibodies. It ain't over yet. 

 
Nathan R. Jessep said:
Not picking on you GB, but this is at least the third time you've declared the pandemic over. Meanwhile hospitals in my region are JUST below the all-time high and schools just opened this past week. Pretty sure your area hospitals aren't doing too hot either. Also those of us that were vaccinated early on (February-March window) are paying close attention to the data coming out about waning antibodies. It ain't over yet. 
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Until someone says, unvaccinated people (that otherwise could) are filling hospitals, it remains over.  This isn't a goalpost move, this is a pandemic of the stupid at this point.  

 
Nathan R. Jessep said:
Not picking on you GB, but this is at least the third time you've declared the pandemic over. Meanwhile hospitals in my region are JUST below the all-time high and schools just opened this past week. Pretty sure your area hospitals aren't doing too hot either. Also those of us that were vaccinated early on (February-March window) are paying close attention to the data coming out about waning antibodies. It ain't over yet. 
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Thanks, I appreciate @culdeus contributions to this thread and value his opinion, just wish these absolute statements would stop. It's not true.

 
Nathan R. Jessep said:
Not picking on you GB, but this is at least the third time you've declared the pandemic over. Meanwhile hospitals in my region are JUST below the all-time high and schools just opened this past week. Pretty sure your area hospitals aren't doing too hot either. Also those of us that were vaccinated early on (February-March window) are paying close attention to the data coming out about waning antibodies. It ain't over yet. 
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Yeah, was just chatting with a co-worker earlier today about this.  My totally uneducated, unscientific take is we will live with Covid in it's current state until late spring/summer barring a new variant that is highly impactful or something unforeseen.  I get what culdeus is saying, as I've said this too but I think "living with Covid" is more than just me and my immediate family.  Yes, our risk basically puts us back to pre-Covid days but life is undeniably different despite that.  My best guess is it won't be the dominating conversation 24/7 around that time frame (at least in the US) - but I also acknowledge again that I'm totally guessing and I'm probably more optimistic than some.

 
culdeus said:
Yes, in time.  Waning immunity is a thing.  Especially for coronaviruses.  
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So then you chose to ignore the bolded words in my post.

Still waiting for someone to name a virus we dont gain some form of immunity from.
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Waning immunity is also a thing for the vaccine. Which one's immunity wears off sooner?

 
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