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***Official Donald J. Trump Impeachment (Whistleblower) Thread*** (2 Viewers)

SaintsInDome2006 said:
We don't hold any purse or military strings with China. IIRC Trump's trade rep Navarro has stated it has come up in trade negotiations.

- It is hard to understand how Ukraine has become a fulcrum for Trump but it makes more sense in light of influence from Flynn, Manafort, Giuliani and Putin. I'm not sure where else there has been that nexus of key events or international interest.... except maybe Turkey.
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Ok, if that is what you want to call extortion. :thumbup:

 
John Blutarsky said:
So what are the other countries he has extorted?
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It sounds like you're arguing that Parrot should have said "Ukraine", singular, not "other countries." My original comment to you was about how Ukraine offers an almost unique nexus of influence and geopolitical import. And I also pointed out the difference between transactional self-dealing and extortion. If you want to break that down further with specific examples, happy to.

 
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SaintsInDome2006 said:
It sounds like you're arguing that Parrot should have said "Ukraine", singular, not other countries. My original comment to you was about how Ukraine offers an almost unique nexus of influence and geopolitical import. And I also pointed out the difference between transactional self-dealing and extortion. If you want to break that down further with specific examples, happy to.
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I'm not arguing at all. Just asking questions. :thumbup:

 
John Blutarsky said:
It probably could have been worded differently. You also said "countries". What other countries did he try to extort? I know he asked China but I haven't read anything about extortion.
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I said he has shown "he's willing" to extort help from other countries. Doing it to one demonstrates that willingness, IMO.  

 
whoknew said:
I reckon that would depend on how you define success.
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https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/07/politics/trump-settlement-trump-foundation-new-york/index.html

Donald Trump to pay $2 million to settle New York Attorney General civil lawsuit against Trump Foundation and his children

"Filed in June 2018, the lawsuit alleged that the President and his three eldest children -- Don Jr., Ivanka and Eric -- violated federal and state campaign finance laws and abused the Donald J. Trump Foundation's tax-exempt status. According to the lawsuit, the Trumps allowed the foundation to be used "as little more than a checkbook to serve Mr. Trump's business and political interests."

Solid upstanding people right there.   :thumbup:

 
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Don't Noonan said:
No, just look at how successful Don Jr., Eric, and Ivanka are.
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Do you believe the primary determiner of being a “good person” is financial success?

1. Plenty of awful people have made a lot of money. Many would suggest that not being a good person might actually make financial success more likely. Regardless, there are good rich people and terrible rich people.

2. It’s not as if any of his children have earned success. They inherited it.

So, back to the original question, so you have anything other than kids of rich parents are rich to demonstrate they are good people. I think that’s more than fair to ask.  Because again, I’ve seen little to nothing to suggest they are (not saying they are “bad” people either. And if I did I’d certainly have something to base it on)
 

 
parrot said:
https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/07/politics/trump-settlement-trump-foundation-new-york/index.html

Donald Trump to pay $2 million to settle New York Attorney General civil lawsuit against Trump Foundation and his children

"Filed in June 2018, the lawsuit alleged that the President and his three eldest children -- Don Jr., Ivanka and Eric -- violated federal and state campaign finance laws and abused the Donald J. Trump Foundation's tax-exempt status. According to the lawsuit, the Trumps allowed the foundation to be used "as little more than a checkbook to serve Mr. Trump's business and political interests."

Solid upstanding people right there.   :thumbup:
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Must be more Fake News. Trump never settles lawsuits--he said so himself.

 
So back on topic....looks like the talking points are settling on "He has no idea what he's saying, how is Ukraine supposed to know?" and basically "he's too incoherent to pull off a quid pro quo".

It's been quite the journey from "there is nothing here" and "no quid pro quo"

 
The Commish said:
So back on topic....looks like the talking points are settling on "He has no idea what he's saying, how is Ukraine supposed to know?" and basically "he's too incoherent to pull off a quid pro quo".

It's been quite the journey from "there is nothing here" and "no quid pro quo"
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As usual - the next step will be, "Ok there is quid pro quo but who cares? Its not a high crime or misdemeanor."

 
Koya said:
Do you believe the primary determiner of being a “good person” is financial success?

1. Plenty of awful people have made a lot of money. Many would suggest that not being a good person might actually make financial success more likely. Regardless, there are good rich people and terrible rich people.

2. It’s not as if any of his children have earned success. They inherited it.

So, back to the original question, so you have anything other than kids of rich parents are rich to demonstrate they are good people. I think that’s more than fair to ask.  Because again, I’ve seen little to nothing to suggest they are (not saying they are “bad” people either. And if I did I’d certainly have something to base it on)
 
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Yes, the way they carry themselves and speak is very impressive.  I don't see how anyone can deny that.

 
apalmer said:
Must be more Fake News. Trump never settles lawsuits--he said so himself.
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Said he wouldn't settle this one specifically.  Used an ! and everything    :thumbup:

Donald J. Trump

@realDonaldTrump

The sleazy New York Democrats, and their now disgraced (and run out of town) A.G. Eric Schneiderman, are doing everything they can to sue me on a foundation that took in $18,800,000 and gave out to charity more money than it took in, $19,200,000. I won’t settle this case!...

9:09 AM · Jun 14, 2018·Twitter for iPhone

And yes, you read that right; the guy who used charity proceeds to buy portraits of himself called someone else "sleazy".  

 
parrot said:
Said he wouldn't settle this one specifically.  Used an ! and everything    :thumbup:

Donald J. Trump

@realDonaldTrump

The sleazy New York Democrats, and their now disgraced (and run out of town) A.G. Eric Schneiderman, are doing everything they can to sue me on a foundation that took in $18,800,000 and gave out to charity more money than it took in, $19,200,000. I won’t settle this case!...

9:09 AM · Jun 14, 2018·Twitter for iPhone

And yes, you read that right; the guy who used charity proceeds to buy portraits of himself called someone else "sleazy".  
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Hmmm, who else was disgraced and run out of New York? Let me think, I know I'll come up with it...seems to me he went to someplace in Florida?

 
phandango said:
Henry Ford said:
Didn’t his son cheat on his pregnant wife with Aubrey O’Day?
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The Eric Trump Foundation took money intended to go to child cancer patients and instead gave it to Trump family businesses, which doesn't sound "upstanding" to me, assuming that Eric Trump was aware of how business was conducted at The Eric Trump Foundation.
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IIRC the upstanding kids are barred from running charities in the state of New York, pending NY SC ruling

 
parrot said:
Said he wouldn't settle this one specifically.  Used an ! and everything    :thumbup:

Donald J. Trump

@realDonaldTrump

The sleazy New York Democrats, and their now disgraced (and run out of town) A.G. Eric Schneiderman, are doing everything they can to sue me on a foundation that took in $18,800,000 and gave out to charity more money than it took in, $19,200,000. I won’t settle this case!...

9:09 AM · Jun 14, 2018·Twitter for iPhone

And yes, you read that right; the guy who used charity proceeds to buy portraits of himself called someone else "sleazy".  
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Let's never forget that the Trump family was disallowed from operating ANY charity in the state of New York because they stole from a kids cancer charity.

A kids cancer charity. 

 
But this does illustrate another fundamental disconnect between political groups -- that having, or acquiring, wealth is somehow an indication of great character while being poor is conversely a sign of poor morals. And the side that believes this uses it as justification to oppose any expansion of the social services net. Because too many of their fellow citizens are not "deserving."

 
The Commish said:
So back on topic....looks like the talking points are settling on "He has no idea what he's saying, how is Ukraine supposed to know?" and basically "he's too incoherent to pull off a quid pro quo".

It's been quite the journey from "there is nothing here" and "no quid pro quo"
Click to expand...
If the Republicans really make this argument, it might save Trump from removal, but wouldn’t it also destroy his re-election? How can they argue “our guy is too imcompetent to pull this off, but vote for him again please”? 

In any case I think it’s a moot point because Trump’s ego would never allow this to be the defense. He has to maintain that he is brilliant and did nothing wrong. 

 
timschochet said:
If the Republicans really make this argument, it might save Trump from removal, but wouldn’t it also destroy his re-election? How can they argue “our guy is too imcompetent to pull this off, but vote for him again please”? 

In any case I think it’s a moot point because Trump’s ego would never allow this to be the defense. He has to maintain that he is brilliant and did nothing wrong. 
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Doesn't matter any more. Stopping domestic/democratic socialism is the entirety of the GOP platform and all actions are subverted to its success. Defending Trump and denying truth is still the best bet towards stemming the blue hordes for another decade or two.

 
I am going to break with my left-leaning brethren and suggest the Dems are making mistakes with this impeachment - that could come back and bite them. 
 

It feels as though they are trying to appease too many stakeholders by rushing this through. Some are nervous about impeachment so they make it very narrow. Some are worried about it dragging into primary season, so they make it quick. But as I tell my daughters anything worth doing is worth doing well. 
 

From the testimony I gave read - they don’t have a case yet. They have a lot of innuendo and “close” but they don’t have key fact witnesses- and it’s a mistake to rely on “We asked nicely but they did not appear.” 
 

So when Jordan questions the witnesses and asks “Did you hear Trump say that?” They are all going to say no. And like it or not that is what the public will focus on. 
 

I think the chances of even getting an impeachment vote will be tough - absent some evidence that I am not aware of. 
 

If witnesses have compelling testimony that relates to Trump - issue the subpoenas and go to court. 

 
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Sinn Fein said:
I am going to break with my left-leaning brethren and suggest the Dems are making mistakes with this impeachment - that could come back and bite them. 
 

It feels as though they are trying to appease too many stakeholders by rushing this through. Some are nervous about impeachment so they make it very narrow. Some are worried about it dragging into primary season, so they make it quick. But as I tell my daughters anything worth doing is worth doing well. 
 

From the testimony I gave read - they don’t have a case yet. They have a lot of innuendo and “close” but they don’t have key fact witnesses- and it’s a mistake to rely on “We asked nicely but they did not appear.” 
 

So when Jordan questions the witnesses and asks “Did you hear Trump say that?” They are all going to say no. And like it or not that is what the public will focus on. 
 

I think the chances of even getting an impeachment vote will be tough - absent some evidence that I am not aware of. 
 

If witnesses have compelling testimony that relates to Trump - issue the subpoenas and good to court. 
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The Democratic party fumbling away again due to incompetence, infighting, and lack of leadership?

Im shocked.

 
Koya said:
The Democratic party fumbling away again due to incompetence, infighting, and lack of leadership?

Im shocked.
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Not as shocked as liberals who love to punch themselves in their own face. President is on the ropes. Losing Governors and state houses all around him. 

Steady as she goes boys. Flatten the mainsail and keep the rudder straight. 

 
Don't Noonan said:
more successful than 99% of Americans seems pretty good defination to me   :shrug:
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You originally said:  "I have said many times that Trump has to be a good person because of the solid upstanding kids he raised."

You can be successful in life and still be a horrible person, treat people badly and not be an upstanding human being.  Don't change your story now.

 
urbanhack said:
You originally said:  "I have said many times that Trump has to be a good person because of the solid upstanding kids he raised."

You can be successful in life and still be a horrible person, treat people badly and not be an upstanding human being.  Don't change your story now.
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Not changing my story at all.  What are you talking about?  

 
Again, you guys are missing the point.  Trump's kids are well spoken, very intelligent, successful people.  This is a big plus for Donald because it shows he did a great job raising them.  

 
Sinn Fein said:
So when Jordan questions the witnesses and asks “Did you hear Trump say that?” They are all going to say no. And like it or not that is what the public will focus on. 
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I had this conversation with my wife last night.  Need proof of the words coming directly from trump's mouth.  

 
Don't Noonan said:
Yep
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Great.  As do I.  So you’ll understand then first hand how a parent’s involvement in their kids lives can vary dramatically.  This makes your statement very interesting to me.  None of us have any clue Trumps involvement level in the “raising” of his kids.  He could’ve been the most involved father ever instilling every aspect of his moral base and life experience in them or been a completely absentee father and the kids were raised by their mother and nannies.   We just don’t know.  So to hang your hat on that argument seems strange to me, especially as a parent yourself.  

 
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The Commish said:
So back on topic....looks like the talking points are settling on "He has no idea what he's saying, how is Ukraine supposed to know?" and basically "he's too incoherent to pull off a quid pro quo".

It's been quite the journey from "there is nothing here" and "no quid pro quo"
Click to expand...
:shrug: I was once told by State Trooper that “ignorance is no excuse for breaking the law”

 
Don't Noonan said:
Again, you guys are missing the point.  Trump's kids are well spoken, very intelligent, successful people.  This is a big plus for Donald because it shows he did a great job raising them.  
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Without getting into the relative merits of their individual characters, he didn't even have custody of them.  His ex wife did. 

 
Don't Noonan said:

Again, you guys are missing the point. Trump's kids are well spoken, very intelligent, successful people. This is a big plus for Donald because it shows he did a great job raising them.
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Hunter Biden is well spoken, very intelligent, and successful. This shows that Joe Biden did a great job raising him.

Joe Biden has to be a good person because of the solid upstanding kid that he raised.

To support my claim from above, just look at how successful Hunter Biden is. He is more successful than 99% of Americans, which is a good enough definition for me.
 
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