culdeus
Footballguy
That would be adjusted automatically in withholding.Of course, the #### in me notes that these same folks are very likely to have had larger paychecks all through the year...
That would be adjusted automatically in withholding.Of course, the #### in me notes that these same folks are very likely to have had larger paychecks all through the year...
Aren’t you a higher earner in the NE? High prop taxes?My weekly paycheck went down not up, my yearly deductions went down, I owed more than last year tax wise.
Yes . I have relatively cheap property taxes but with just taxes that's my cap.Aren’t you a higher earner in the NE? High prop taxes?
Not to defend the Treasury, but the problem is they can only determine the change from the old standard deduction and personal exemptions to the new standard deduction along with the change in rates. Withholding tables can't possibly factor in the amount of itemized deductions people had in 2017 or lost in 2018.Sand said:Treasury should have adjusted the withholding tables to try and keep return expectations the same.
While I hate this tax law change this is absolutely not true at least as far as taxes are concerned. Tax rates dropped, child tax credit jumped from $1,000 to $2,000. Most people will see a tax liability decrease.American working class absolutely hosed by the same people that keep nutpunching them.
I did say I was being a #### here. (Treasury really did need to massage the withholding tables here. It seems like a relatively easy job for a low level analyst, IMO).Right, because that is exactly what their president touted. More take home pay for everyone because of the great tax cut. No one touted cutting withholding to the point that they'd owe a big tax bill at the end of the year. So it's a little disingenuous to throw this all on the taxpayer.
Median and Mean matter here.While I hate this tax law change this is absolutely not true at least as far as taxes are concerned. Tax rates dropped, child tax credit jumped from $1,000 to $2,000. Most people will see a tax liability decrease.
This is where I disagree with you. If the President spouts on and on about how he cut taxes and your take home increases but your refund decreases to net out to the same amount that's not really a tax cut, is it?I just overheard a conversation at work about this exact subject. They were discussing some general stuff related to the tax law changes and then one of them said, "I got more in my take home but I also got a smaller tax refund so they didn't really give me anything."
This is wrong on so many levels. First, the gubment isn't giving her anything in the form of a tax refund (it's an over-payment of what she owed). Second, judging the impact of changes can't be done by looking at how much you owe or the size of your refund.
It's surprising to me how many people are focused on their tax refund and not the actual amount of income tax they owe. The refund completely changes the perception of taxes and it bugs me But instead of calling people names for wanting a refund, or thinking in terms of a refund, I think it's better to remind people that's not what taxes are all about. If you owe 10K in taxes it doesn't matter if you get a 1K refund (you overpaid throughout the year via withholdings) or if you own 1K (you under paid throughout the year) - your tax burden is 10K.
Any discussion about the tax cuts should be done using your effective tax rate year over year - and then if you want to get a big refund go for it
What are you disagreeing with? I'm not for or against the tax changes, this isn't political. I'm only talking about how to judge whether or not the tax cuts helped or hurt individual people and the refund is irrelevant for that purpose. In your example, it sounds like the net is that they owed the same amount as last year (which is my point - look at the tax liability this year vs last year), and no it wouldn't be a tax cut.This is where I disagree with you. If the President spouts on and on about how he cut taxes and your take home increases but your refund decreases to net out to the same amount that's not really a tax cut, is it?
But then you are complaining about this particular individual you heard at workWhat are you disagreeing with? I'm not for or against the tax changes, this isn't political. I'm only talking about how to judge whether or not the tax cuts helped or hurt individual people and the refund is irrelevant for that purpose. In your example, it sounds like the net is that they owed the same amount as last year (which is my point - look at the tax liability this year vs last year), and no it wouldn't be a tax cut.
If her additional take home plus smaller refund netted out to the same amount, how is this wrong on so many levels? They didnt give her anything.and then one of them said, "I got more in my take home but I also got a smaller tax refund so they didn't really give me anything."
This is wrong on so many levels
I suspect this individual has absolutely no idea how much their take home pay increased vs the size of their refund. And I'll wager my tax liability to your tax refund that they still ended up with a tax cut.But then you are complaining about this particular individual you heard at work
If her additional take home plus smaller refund netted out to the same amount, how is this wrong on so many levels? They didnt give her anything.
I thought I explained it pretty well actually. She never mentioned the tax liability directly so she doesn't truly know if she got a tax cut or not. She knows she got more in her check each week and knows she got a smaller refund - but both are irrelevant to the total amount of money she owed in taxes this year. Let me ask you this way - if she increases her withholdings today and gets a bigger refund in 2019, did the gubment give her anything in 2019? Did she get a tax cut in 2019 because she got a bigger refund?If her additional take home plus smaller refund netted out to the same amount, how is this wrong on so many levels? They didnt give her anything.
I had to take the standardized deduction of $24k, because my itemized deductions maxed out at $23,400. I had more than $6,000 in local income and property taxes I couldn't deduct. My tax bill went up.I just overheard a conversation at work about this exact subject. They were discussing some general stuff related to the tax law changes and then one of them said, "I got more in my take home but I also got a smaller tax refund so they didn't really give me anything."
This is wrong on so many levels. First, the gubment isn't giving her anything in the form of a tax refund (it's an over-payment of what she owed). Second, judging the impact of changes can't be done by looking at how much you owe or the size of your refund.
It's surprising to me how many people are focused on their tax refund and not the actual amount of income tax they owe. The refund completely changes the perception of taxes and it bugs me But instead of calling people names for wanting a refund, or thinking in terms of a refund, I think it's better to remind people that's not what taxes are all about. If you owe 10K in taxes it doesn't matter if you get a 1K refund (you overpaid throughout the year via withholdings) or if you own 1K (you under paid throughout the year) - your tax burden is 10K.
Any discussion about the tax cuts should be done using your effective tax rate year over year - and then if you want to get a big refund go for it
The government specifically said taxes have been cut and in her case they may not have been. Thats what she is referring to. In my case they were not either. I received more in my check but my refund decreased dramatically due to the SALT cap. Overall my tax bill in 2018 was higher than 2017 due to the tax changes.I thought I explained it pretty well actually. She never mentioned the tax liability directly so she doesn't truly know if she got a tax cut or not. She knows she got more in her check each week and knows she got a smaller refund - but both are irrelevant to the total amount of money she owed in taxes this year. Let me ask you this way - if she increases her withholdings today and gets a bigger refund in 2019, did the gubment give her anything in 2019? Did she get a tax cut in 2019 because she got a bigger refund?
In her case the taxes might not have been cut is my point! She doesn't know based on her take home pay increase and the amount of the refund she received. That isn't enough information to know how the tax changes affected her. The bolded is the only way to tell how the tax changes affected anyone, but many people don't look at the tax liability, they are only focused on the refund. And yeah, it sucks that the tax "cuts" made your taxes go up.The government specifically said taxes have been cut and in her case they may not have been. Thats what she is referring to. In my case they were not either. I received more in my check but my refund decreased dramatically due to the SALT cap. Overall my tax bill in 2018 was higher than 2017 due to the tax changes.
You dont either. Which is my pointIn her case the taxes might not have been cut is my point! She doesn't know based on her take home pay increase and the amount of the refund she received. That isn't enough information to know how the tax changes affected her. The bolded is the only way to tell how the tax changes affected anyone, but many people don't look at the tax liability, they are only focused on the refund. And yeah, it sucks that the tax "cuts" made your taxes go up.
If she focused on the tax liability we all would know, which is my pointYou dont either. Which is my point
That's not really what happened. It's more like Starbucks lowered prices but quit accepting coupons. For those that didn't get the coupons they are happy. But those that counted on the coupons to afford it are now ####ed.Every time I got to Starbucks, I get a grande latte, pay with a $20, and get a bunch of change.
Well my friend said that Starbucks is changing their prices.
Sure enough, last week I went to Starbucks, got my grande latte. I only had a $10 on me this time, though. I got a lot less change!!
Man, Starbucks sure got expensive!
But rates were cut for everyone across the board so just because you got screwed by the SALT cap it doesn't necessarily mean you are paying a higher effective tax rate this year. In your friends case the odds are extremely low for her weekly take home pay increase to exactly match her refund deficiency. The best tax CPA's in the land would struggle to calculate it that close.The government specifically said taxes have been cut and in her case they may not have been. Thats what she is referring to. In my case they were not either. I received more in my check but my refund decreased dramatically due to the SALT cap. Overall my tax bill in 2018 was higher than 2017 due to the tax changes.
What if your take home was less and your refund was lessJesus people. If your take home is more but your refund is less...but that combined is in the black, you did better. Sorry you didnt consider this or plan accordingly but you did better than last year. Stop whining.
You need a helping of bootstrapsWhat if your take home was less and your refund was less
Sure. When tax changes were implemented my checks went down. Due to new tax codes my deductions were capped so my AGI was higherExplain
Ugh. I suck. Should've read this BEFORE itemizing all those Salvation Army donations and then not meeting the 24k standard anyways. Didn't realize it was that high.Previous years I itemized. This year I opted for the new standard deduction. Took home the same amount and saved myself a few hours.
No kidding. How annoying is it for people to come in a thread entitled Tax Check and talk about their tax checks? The nerve!Jesus people. If your take home is more but your refund is less...but that combined is in the black, you did better. Sorry you didnt consider this or plan accordingly but you did better than last year. Stop whining.
No way this is true.You'd be surprised how many stories are out there of people turning down raises because it would bump them into the next tax bracket. "Right now I'm taxed at 22%, but if they give me a $100 week raise then I'm taxed at 25%. I'd be losing money!"
People are idiots who don't understand their own finances.
Why do people keep saying that the SALT limit only affects blue states?It's ok everyone, laugh it off. Fox And Friends says "oops" sorry for the tax...hike?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=F-4Ud7mzZzo
Not only but more so as those states have higher state taxes and property tax.Why do people keep saying that the SALT limit only affects blue states?
As noted I got hit with SALT (by ~1k, so not by much) and I'm in the reddest of red states. Certainly not screaming about it as I still have many tax forms yet to come in and don't know what my overall tax rate is going to be. We'll see.Why do people keep saying that the SALT limit only affects blue states?
I don't understand this attitude, which many posters seem to share. It seems unrealistic and/or ignorant of the reality of the finances of most Americans.Jesus people. If your take home is more but your refund is less...but that combined is in the black, you did better. Sorry you didnt consider this or plan accordingly but you did better than last year. Stop whining.
A cynic might think that the extra money in pay checks would be fresh in voters minds In November 2018, but the smaller tax refunds will be forgotten by November 2020.For some reason (I suspect it was political, but perhaps it was practical or an administrative error or a combination of all of those), this reliance on others to set withholding has resulted in a lot of people getting much smaller refunds and in many instances owing more money to the federal government for 2018.
Yes people need to look at their effective tax rates to determine if they benefitted or not from the tax law change. It's basically your tax liability divided by your taxable income. It's the best way to compare apples to apples because while most people probably saw an increase in taxable income due to SALT limitations but with tax rates decreasing and credits increasing most people effective rates likely decreased.OK, I still have TurboTax 2017 installed on my computer, so, just for funsies, I entered my 2018 info to compare the old tax plan and the new tax plan.
In 2017, my federal tax refund was ~$2000. In 2018, I expect I will owe ~$200.
My Total Income increased by about $10k between 2017 and 2018, (due to a raise and capital gains). My Federal Deduction is about $4k less. My Taxable Income is about $14k more.
After adjusting withholding, my take-home paycheck ended up being about $50 more a week, too.
After running my info through TT2017 and TT2018, the bottom line 'Federal Taxes I Owe' under the "new" plan is $300 less than it would have been under the "old" plan. So I made $10k more and am getting charged $300 less in taxes overall. Despite the fact that I went from getting a $2k refund to owing $200, going to show that judging the tax plan by the size of your refund check is a fool's errand.
The US govt. started withholding so that they would get their money first. Given the exact behavior your talked about re: American citizen spending habits, if the UST didn't people would spend it all before tax time. That said I completely agree that the UST hosed up the withholding tables. We have historically put trust in their ability to be consistent and they failed.TobiasFunke said:Most people aren't accountants and don't employ one year-round. They depend on Treasury and their employer to set their withholding. They are entirely justified in doing so, as this reliance has gone smoothly and predictably for their entire lives. It's unreasonable IMO to expect these people to "consider this or plan accordingly." For some reason (I suspect it was political, but perhaps it was practical or an administrative error or a combination of all of those), this reliance on others to set withholding has resulted in a lot of people getting much smaller refunds and in many instances owing more money to the federal government for 2018.
Actually, I think it's the opposite. Folks won't really see or feel the extra $40 (or whatever) in each paycheck. They will, however, remember "getting screwed" with a smaller return, as most people judge their taxes by their return. Virtually no one will calculate their effective tax rate.Tom Hagen said:A cynic might think that the extra money in pay checks would be fresh in voters minds In November 2018, but the smaller tax refunds will be forgotten by November 2020.
here's another thing that we, as a county, seem to tolerate...The US govt. started withholding so that they would get their money first. Given the exact behavior your talked about re: American citizen spending habits, if the UST didn't people would spend it all before tax time. That said I completely agree that the UST hosed up the withholding tables. We have historically put trust in their ability to be consistent and they failed.
Actually, I think it's the opposite. Folks won't really see or feel the extra $40 (or whatever) in each paycheck. They will, however, remember "getting screwed" with a smaller return, as most people judge their taxes by their return. Virtually no one will calculate their effective tax rate.
For the same reason we, as a country, seem to tolerate the rampant fraud that goes on at tax time with fake returns, etc. A prudent country would gather all returns first, verify any inconsistencies, and then issue returns - quashing this fraud problem. We, as a citizenry, allow the govt. to hold our money, then are upset if we don't get our money back in 2 weeks. I shake my head at people sometimes.
This sends me right through the roof. How is this even allowed, these people getting off basically free. Makes me want to hunt them down.here's another thing that we, as a county, seem to tolerate...
We all work hard and pay our taxes ... lots of taxes. Pay our taxes or go to jail.
... yet I hear advertising on tv and radio ...."if you owe the IRS more than $10,000, call us and get off for a fraction of what you owe"
and testimonials from satisfied clients ... "I owed the IRS more than $50,000 ... and I only had to pay $2,000. Thanks a lot such and such a company!"
I want all of you to think about this when you look at how much taxes your paying this year. Somehow others are getting away with not paying taxes for years and get away almost scot-free.
I'm a CPA and those ads are BS. The only way to get tax forgiven is if you don't make any money and don't have any assets. Some people fall under this and can settle for a fraction, most can't.This sends me right through the roof. How is this even allowed, these people getting off basically free. Makes me want to hunt them down.
My wife and I have had this conversation a few times, she likes that “refund” and all my life I claim a high amount of dependents (10) and then always owe a couple thousand at tax time. I like having my money now and in my mind making Uncle Sam wait until midnight on April 15 for my money is sweetIt's surprising to me how many people are focused on their tax refund and not the actual amount of income tax they owe. The refund completely changes the perception of taxes and it bugs me But instead of calling people names for wanting a refund, or thinking in terms of a refund, I think it's better to remind people that's not what taxes are all about. If you owe 10K in taxes it doesn't matter if you get a 1K refund (you overpaid throughout the year via withholdings) or if you own 1K (you under paid throughout the year) - your tax burden is 10K.
Any discussion about the tax cuts should be done using your effective tax rate year over year - and then if you want to get a big refund go for it
Did they make a difference in your state taxes, though?Ugh. I suck. Should've read this BEFORE itemizing all those Salvation Army donations and then not meeting the 24k standard anyways. Didn't realize it was that high.