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DNC Leaks...official thread (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Rove!
- Start date
Arsenal of Doom
Footballguy
As of about a week ago roughly a quarter of of the gains in the Dow were directly from increases in Goldman Sachs shares. But I guess everything ended up okay for Hoover after 1928, sooooo....
Baloney Sandwich
Footballguy
Arsenal of Doom
Footballguy
This reminded me of another article from a week or so after the election: Bankers celebrate dawn of Trump era
It's remarkable how many voters fell for this shell game.
saintfool
Dead sexy
I had a great uncle that lived in a tiny town in NW Tennessee. He said that would never vote Republican because of "Hoovervilles" and was certain that Hoover would have let the country starve during the Depression. He was a New Deal Democrat and voted Dem for the rest of his life because of FDR.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Baloney Sandwich
Footballguy
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
- This is really pretty straightforward. There are security experts, forensic computer analysts who look at the evidence. Some of them work for the FBI. If they issue a report or if findings are released, then rely on that. Here with Sony the evidence was not clear, but they do look to the evidence.
saintfool
Dead sexy
whoknew
Footballguy
White House orders sanctions against Russia. Look forward to the WH report about how the Russians did it - going to Congress soon.
Its statement:
I have ordered a number of actions in response to the Russian government’s aggressive harassment of U.S. officials and cyber operations aimed at the U.S. election. These actions follow repeated private and public warnings that we have issued to the Russian government, and are a necessary and appropriate response to efforts to harm U.S. interests in violation of established international norms of behavior.
All Americans should be alarmed by Russia’s actions. In October, my Administration publicized our assessment that Russia took actions intended to interfere with the U.S. election process. These data theft and disclosure activities could only have been directed by the highest levels of the Russian government. Moreover, our diplomats have experienced an unacceptable level of harassment in Moscow by Russian security services and police over the last year. Such activities have consequences. Today, I have ordered a number of actions in response.
I have issued an executive order that provides additional authority for responding to certain cyber activity that seeks to interfere with or undermine our election processes and institutions, or those of our allies or partners. Using this new authority, I have sanctioned nine entities and individuals: the GRU and the FSB, two Russian intelligence services; four individual officers of the GRU; and three companies that provided material support to the GRU’s cyber operations. In addition, the Secretary of the Treasury is designating two Russian individuals for using cyber-enabled means to cause misappropriation of funds and personal identifying information. The State Department is also shutting down two Russian compounds, in Maryland and New York, used by Russian personnel for intelligence-related purposes, and is declaring “persona non grata” 35 Russian intelligence operatives. Finally, the Department of Homeland Security and the Federal Bureau of Investigation are releasing declassified technical information on Russian civilian and military intelligence service cyber activity, to help network defenders in the United States and abroad identify, detect, and disrupt Russia’s global campaign of malicious cyber activities.
These actions are not the sum total of our response to Russia’s aggressive activities. We will continue to take a variety of actions at a time and place of our choosing, some of which will not be publicized. In addition to holding Russia accountable for what it has done, the United States and friends and allies around the world must work together to oppose Russia’s efforts to undermine established international norms of behavior, and interfere with democratic governance. To that end, my Administration will be providing a report to Congress in the coming days about Russia’s efforts to interfere in our election, as well as malicious cyber activity related to our election cycle in previous elections.
Its statement:
I have ordered a number of actions in response to the Russian government’s aggressive harassment of U.S. officials and cyber operations aimed at the U.S. election. These actions follow repeated private and public warnings that we have issued to the Russian government, and are a necessary and appropriate response to efforts to harm U.S. interests in violation of established international norms of behavior.
All Americans should be alarmed by Russia’s actions. In October, my Administration publicized our assessment that Russia took actions intended to interfere with the U.S. election process. These data theft and disclosure activities could only have been directed by the highest levels of the Russian government. Moreover, our diplomats have experienced an unacceptable level of harassment in Moscow by Russian security services and police over the last year. Such activities have consequences. Today, I have ordered a number of actions in response.
I have issued an executive order that provides additional authority for responding to certain cyber activity that seeks to interfere with or undermine our election processes and institutions, or those of our allies or partners. Using this new authority, I have sanctioned nine entities and individuals: the GRU and the FSB, two Russian intelligence services; four individual officers of the GRU; and three companies that provided material support to the GRU’s cyber operations. In addition, the Secretary of the Treasury is designating two Russian individuals for using cyber-enabled means to cause misappropriation of funds and personal identifying information. The State Department is also shutting down two Russian compounds, in Maryland and New York, used by Russian personnel for intelligence-related purposes, and is declaring “persona non grata” 35 Russian intelligence operatives. Finally, the Department of Homeland Security and the Federal Bureau of Investigation are releasing declassified technical information on Russian civilian and military intelligence service cyber activity, to help network defenders in the United States and abroad identify, detect, and disrupt Russia’s global campaign of malicious cyber activities.
These actions are not the sum total of our response to Russia’s aggressive activities. We will continue to take a variety of actions at a time and place of our choosing, some of which will not be publicized. In addition to holding Russia accountable for what it has done, the United States and friends and allies around the world must work together to oppose Russia’s efforts to undermine established international norms of behavior, and interfere with democratic governance. To that end, my Administration will be providing a report to Congress in the coming days about Russia’s efforts to interfere in our election, as well as malicious cyber activity related to our election cycle in previous elections.
whoknew
Footballguy
@TomWinter -
BREAKING: White House announces that two Russian compounds located in New York and Maryland will be shut-down.
BREAKING: United States declares 35 Russian diplomats in New York and San Francisco "persona non grata" they have 72 hours to leave U.S.
--
Will be very interesting to see how Trump reacts. Will he immediately rescind the executive order?
BREAKING: White House announces that two Russian compounds located in New York and Maryland will be shut-down.
BREAKING: United States declares 35 Russian diplomats in New York and San Francisco "persona non grata" they have 72 hours to leave U.S.
--
Will be very interesting to see how Trump reacts. Will he immediately rescind the executive order?
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Just a couple notes:
- Specifically calling out FSB and GRU is a big deal. Sanctioning them is meaningless, speaking of them by name is important IMO.
- The 35 ousted personnel are intelligence officers. This is actually damaging to Russia, this hurts them, these are assets in the USA.
And be prepared, Russia WILL respond, and soon.
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SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
whoknew
Footballguy
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Yaknow, it gets a little weird when the military, intelligence community, the whole US Senate, and technical experts all point to one conclusion on the evidence... and the one person balking... is the US President, who basically questions, you know, 'science'. Really, really, really weird.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
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SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
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SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Russia had a spy ring busted in 2010.
Snowden was 2013.
The FBI was warning the DNC (and likely the RNC) in 2015. The Senate was pounding the table for a response last year.
It's possible that the US Gov has been aware of Russian hacking since 2005 with the murder of Anna Politkovskaya.
This is long, long overdue.
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The General
Footballguy
Trump won't trust these reports - they were made on one of those computer boxes from the future.
The Commish
Footballguy
Is this the thread where we pretend that the collective "handling" of this situation over the last X years has been sufficient? On this topic, we are Russia's #####. It sucks, but isn't surprising. Our leaders haven't the slightest clue about technology and it's showing. It's also worrisome.SaintsInDome2006 said:
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Baloney Sandwich
Footballguy
Yes, let's mock Trump and not the guy that sat on his hands for the last 7.9 yearsThe General said:
The General
Footballguy
Baloney Sandwich
Footballguy
Trump is going to be horrible but it is pretty bizarre to mock him over Russia and ignore our current President who has done nothing except mock his opponent four years ago for suggesting they were a serious threat.
The General
Footballguy
Obummer sure messed that one up.
Hard not to mock the guy who thinks computers are making things too fast and complicated and refuses to take intelligence meetings.
The Commish
Footballguy
It's quite telling when Mitt Freakin' Romney gets it but it eludes everyone else
The General
Footballguy
You just know his small, childlike hands were trembling with pride as he typed that out.
saintfool
Dead sexy
I mentioned this in the other Trump thread but I'll do it here too. Russians were noticeably different from 2008-12 with Medvedev as the President. Snowden, Crimean Annexation, propping up Assad, and now this all happened after Putin returned to the presidency. They were muddling through the financial collapse of 2008 just like everyone else. They buggered Georgia over Ossetia but seemed content to cede the world stage for a time. Other dirty tricks were played but mostly on the down low (radiation poisoning in London?). Romney's claim was hardly obvious at the time as some folks claim.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Just some thoughts:
- The damage done by the invasion of Iraq continues to haunt us. This post appears to be a common stream of thought these days. One of the reasons the modern GOP was blown apart on the presidential level (yes) was that the traditional Republican pillars of 1. non-intervention and safe foreign policy and 2. conservative monetary policy with some regulation was blown apart under Bush. People lost faith. In that respect I don't see the elections of Obama and Trump as all that different.
- The problem with Iraq wasn't the intelligence, it was that there was conflicting intelligence, and the intelligence that we liked we picked, and the intelligence (information) we didn't like we disregarded. What's worse is that some were brought in to consult on the political, military and intelligence side, while some others were excluded. If you want a comp for that look to the Bay of Pigs.
- Even though I've pounded the words 'intelligence' and 'IC' and 'intelligence community' as much as anyone technically this is not an intelligence problem.
It's a computer forensics problem.
Inspecting a computer network or email system or a given machine is nothing like the actual military and intelligence assets that went into evaluating the WMD issue.
My guess is that whatever life or business you're in you rely on computer technicians all the time. If you had a virus in your system I doubt you would tell an expert - like Trump - 'awh weelllll you know, there's really no way to tell what's going on with computers, they're so complicated and garshdarnit there could be gnomes or fairies or some fat guy in Hoboken playing with them microcircuits for all we know.....'
No, my guess is you would take their advice.
One of the disturbing things about Trump is he comes up with this bogus excuse that 'no one knows what's going on' with computer systems, instead of pointing to alternative evidence or explanations, which by the way by all appearances does not exist.
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ren hoek
Footballguy
I don't buy that Russia is this huge threat. Or any of the shaky grounds for evidence. Has there been any evidence other than an anonymous source saying Russia did it?
Even if they did influence the election in Trump's favor (they didn't), is it really that big a shocker that they'd support the guy who doesn't want to go to war with them over the party that does? It's complete trash. The establishment is setting up all these precursors to war and it's a complete lie- just like Iraq was.
The Washington Post (owned by Jeff Bezos) is at the forefront of the fake news regarding Russia and it's worth pointing out that the CIA awarded Amazon a $600 million contract. No disclosure about it in any of their articles of course. The hysterics on display here are honestly incredible.
Friday night, Vermont Gov. Peter Shumlin (D) called on federal officials “to conduct a full and complete investigation of this incident and undertake remedies to ensure that this never happens again.”
“Vermonters and all Americans should be both alarmed and outraged that one of the world’s leading thugs, Vladimir Putin, has been attempting to hack our electric grid, which we rely upon to support our quality-of-life, economy, health, and safety,” Shumlin said in a statement. “This episode should highlight the urgent need for our federal government to vigorously pursue and put an end to this sort of Russian meddling.”
Sen. Patrick J. Leahy (D-Vt.) said he was briefed on the attempts to penetrate the electric grid by Vermont State Police on Friday evening. “This is beyond hackers having electronic joy rides — this is now about trying to access utilities to potentially manipulate the grid and shut it down in the middle of winter,” Leahy said in a statement. “That is a direct threat to Vermont and we do not take it lightly.”
Rep. Peter Welch (D-Vt.) said the attack shows how rampant Russian hacking is. “It’s systemic, relentless, predatory,” Welch said . “They will hack everywhere, even Vermont, in pursuit of opportunities to disrupt our country. We must remain vigilant, which is why I support President Obama’s sanctions against Russia and its attacks on our country and what it stands for.”
Are people actually buying this ####?
Even if they did influence the election in Trump's favor (they didn't), is it really that big a shocker that they'd support the guy who doesn't want to go to war with them over the party that does? It's complete trash. The establishment is setting up all these precursors to war and it's a complete lie- just like Iraq was.
The Washington Post (owned by Jeff Bezos) is at the forefront of the fake news regarding Russia and it's worth pointing out that the CIA awarded Amazon a $600 million contract. No disclosure about it in any of their articles of course. The hysterics on display here are honestly incredible.
Friday night, Vermont Gov. Peter Shumlin (D) called on federal officials “to conduct a full and complete investigation of this incident and undertake remedies to ensure that this never happens again.”
“Vermonters and all Americans should be both alarmed and outraged that one of the world’s leading thugs, Vladimir Putin, has been attempting to hack our electric grid, which we rely upon to support our quality-of-life, economy, health, and safety,” Shumlin said in a statement. “This episode should highlight the urgent need for our federal government to vigorously pursue and put an end to this sort of Russian meddling.”
Sen. Patrick J. Leahy (D-Vt.) said he was briefed on the attempts to penetrate the electric grid by Vermont State Police on Friday evening. “This is beyond hackers having electronic joy rides — this is now about trying to access utilities to potentially manipulate the grid and shut it down in the middle of winter,” Leahy said in a statement. “That is a direct threat to Vermont and we do not take it lightly.”
Rep. Peter Welch (D-Vt.) said the attack shows how rampant Russian hacking is. “It’s systemic, relentless, predatory,” Welch said . “They will hack everywhere, even Vermont, in pursuit of opportunities to disrupt our country. We must remain vigilant, which is why I support President Obama’s sanctions against Russia and its attacks on our country and what it stands for.”
Are people actually buying this ####?
Rich Conway
Footballguy
Russia spies on us and interferes in our affairs. How is this any different, or any more unexpected, than the fact that we spy on them and interfere in their affairs? We spy on the Russians, the British, the Germans, on everyone. Why do we pretend to get so upset when someone else spies on us? Is it the sanctity of "the election"? I don't remember anyone getting upset when Obama spoke out and tried to influence the Brexit vote.
I really don't understand this mentality (other than as a ploy to herd the sheep).
I really don't understand this mentality (other than as a ploy to herd the sheep).
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
I think you're right that Russia Spies On America is just another Dog Bites Man story. Russia spies on us, we spy on Russia, and we both spy on a bunch of other countries, many of whom are our allies. If that's all it was, then I'd agree that there's nothing to see here.
This story is a little different for a couple of reasons:
1) Obama spoke out against Brexit publicly. That isn't the same thing as phishing a senior member of the Clinton campaign and selectively leaking their emails in an effort to make them look bad. (Note: I didn't see much in Podesta's emails that was especially newsworthy, but it's the intent that counts). One is an above-board effort to influence the election by stating your view and laying out your reasoning. The other is dirty pool. Although I have no doubt that the US also does stuff like this and I'm not intrinsically opposed to it.
2) It's Trump. It's not just that Russia intervened in support of some random candidate who they happened to prefer. They intervened in support of the second-worst candidate in modern American history, who many of us view as uniquely unqualified and dangerous. And they did so because they think they can make him into a puppet for their regime -- has Trump given us any reason, even just one, to think that they were wrong about that?
Had Trump lost, I think this story would have faded away too a large degree. We'd all be rolling our eyes and sarcastically saying "Oh yeah, leaking a few innocuous emails was really going to enough to trick people into electing Mr. #####-Grabber -- good game Putin." It would be just another part of the cultural flotsam of the jokiest joke of a campaign ever. It's because Trump actually won somehow that this is still front and center.
DocHolliday
Footballguy
MaxThreshold
Footballguy
It is? Apparently Hillary Clinton and the DNC didn't think so (until they lost, that is). I don't think having a server in your bathroom closet next to the Charmin, Vagisil and Q-tips is standard recommended practice when it comes to security.
Arsenal of Doom
Footballguy
Exactly. Trump and his associates also have long standing and existing ties to Russia, and particularly in Trump's case the extent of which isn't fully known.
It doesn't take a leap in reasoning to question if the campaign either had knowledge of the Russian operation or even collaborated. At a minimum we know Roger Stone was hinting at the Podesta emails in August, before the leaks were public and presumably via info from Assange.
This isn't something that's just going to be "moved on" from.
Rich Conway
Footballguy
Meh. I still don't understand the fuss. I don't remember people complaining when the US turned Stuxnet loose on Iran. That's certainly as "bad" as what Russia allegedly did here. Simply put, we should expect countries to spy on other countries, and to act in their own best interests at all times.
As far as "it's Trump", I'm not sure I get that either. Sure, Trump is an idiot who has no business running a lemonade stand, let alone a country, but I don't think that fact adds or subtracts anything to the narrative. Are we suggesting that it's OK to spy on other countries and act against their interests unless the outcome might be "really bad" for them? That makes no sense.
Regarding Trump or his campaign possibly being complicit, I imagine that they were happy for anything that helped their campaign, regardless of the source, but that by itself is not unusual or worthy of criticism. If the suggestion is that Trump's campaign may have assisted in the hack, then A) I'd like to see some proof, and B) frankly, I still put the blame on those who got hacked. One should always assume that their are unsavory people attempting to access one's personal information, and one should take steps to prevent that. The DNC failed at that, as did Clinton previously.
I think the part I find fascinating is that Trump continues to downplay the likelihood that Russia was involved in the hacking. I really worry that Trump is in way over his head here, and really has no idea he is being snookered.
Also, countries spy on one another all the time. But, spying is generally done to gather information - to be better informed about what other countries are doing/thinking. Stuxnet certainly goes beyond that - and I don't think anyone would seriously argue that it was not an "act of war". Russian hacking - to the extent that it is used to influence public opinion, or perhaps more nefariously is used to blackmail/influence politicians, is in that same vein.
Arsenal of Doom
Footballguy
For the record I think it's unlikely we'll ever find hard evidence even if Trump was 100% complicit in the hacks and we should all be ready to accept that. Dems should drop it once there has been an investigation and public airing of the facts, we don't need 33 congressional hearings on it.
DocHolliday
Footballguy
You don't think our national security is important. That seems like a strange opinion.
MaxThreshold
Footballguy
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Sand
Footballguy
So the joint report that was issued as the smoking gun has been found to be devoid of any proof that the Russians were responsible for hacking.
Looks like the petty revenge tour (Putin, Netenyahu, western state Republicans) continues.
Looks like the petty revenge tour (Putin, Netenyahu, western state Republicans) continues.
"In other words, these rules can be a reflection of the fact the government has excellent information for attribution," Graham wrote. "Or, it could be a reflection that they've got only weak bits and pieces. It's impossible for us outsiders to tell".
Yeah, that's some confidence there...
MaxThreshold
Footballguy
Wow. So will this stop the hyper-ventilating and high drama currently going on in the forums on how Putin is going to take over the US?
