Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.
Preseason Game Observations (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter mikel2014
- Start date
ShaHBucks
Footballguy
Maybe Kolb set him up.
Grigs Allmoon
Footballguy
2 minute drill looked pretty good by Manuel.
Area51Inhabitant
Footballguy
He definitely looked more comfortable in the two minute offense.
Kenny Powers
Footballguy
Manuel 16/21, 102yds, 1TD/0 INT. 102.7 rating. Is YPA is low but Stevie Johnson didnt even play so his best WR was a rookie and Spiller only played 2 series. Not seeing why a few of you are being so hard on him.
Last edited by a moderator:
Area51Inhabitant
Footballguy
8 of those 16 completions came on that two minute drive. Prior to that, his numbers were quite pedestrian.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
He started slow and did the same thing in their scrimmage. I think a lot of it is simply gaining confidence and ripping it instead of over thinking and waiting too long. That's not a surprise though. That's a large part of what they mean when they talk about the game "slowing down" for guys.
Let's give him a bit more time than the first half of his first preseason action to make a lot of judgements. As he gains confidence and just starts playing I think you'll see his accuracy go up and stop missing some of those throws.
Area51Inhabitant
Footballguy
Plus most of his throws were dinking and dunking which isn't unexpected but early on even some of his completions were way off the mark.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
EJ is looking like a legit NFL starter.
Odd delivery but I can deal with that.
Ball jumps out of his hands.
Not the best ball placement on those slants, he's missing the outside shoulder forcing his WRs to make awkward adjustments into the DBs.
Nice tempo with this offense. The WCO roots of the OC showed on that scoring drive but the two minute offense combined with that tempo, nice stuff.
Odd delivery but I can deal with that.
Ball jumps out of his hands.
Not the best ball placement on those slants, he's missing the outside shoulder forcing his WRs to make awkward adjustments into the DBs.
Nice tempo with this offense. The WCO roots of the OC showed on that scoring drive but the two minute offense combined with that tempo, nice stuff.
massraider
Footballguy
Grigs Allmoon
Footballguy
Marcus Easley is looking good against the backups. He's making a case to make the roster, early.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Seems like Easley is doing well against the 2nd and 3rd teamers. Should be interesting to see if he can win a spot over Da'Rick Rogers.
Or I guess I could have refreshed my browser and read Grigs saying the same thing 6 minutes earlier.
Or I guess I could have refreshed my browser and read Grigs saying the same thing 6 minutes earlier.
Last edited by a moderator:
ROYALWITCHEESE
Footballguy
I never questioned his smarts. I alluded to the fact that we will have to wait and see if he is smart enough to make up for his lack of physical ability.
Last edited by a moderator:
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
you wrote i'm not sure if he has the smarts... why even go there if you haven't been given cause to doubt them?
you not only questioned his speed, but said he had no speed, yet his 4.65 is in line with some very successful pro RBs...
you not only questioned his power, but said he had no power... i countered with the fact that he broke many tackles en route to becoming stanford's all time rushing leader... surely he must have SOME power???
everbody is entitled to their opinions, but using such extreme negative descriptives in case of speed and power, leaving counters unchecked, and than raising an issue that i'm pretty sure if you googled would likely find no scout has ever raised about him, comes off as bashing...
* just to be clear, i'm not saying he's the second coming (opposite of bashing being a fanboy)... just that he could have non-trivial redraft/dynasty value greater than zero (hopefully that isn't phrased too hyperbolically or sensationally), which you seem to be implying... if he can surpass ryan williams (which locals and insiders say may happen be default), that could be a climb up the ladder... and mendenhall has lingering knee issues, so it wouldn't be a shock if he sees first team snaps at some point this year... and if he does, having better than ZERO speed/power, he could have a chance to actually do something with them (and maybe you wouldn't disagree with this position, contingent on how we define "something"), but based on your responses (all i can go on), you seem to be an advocate and proponent of the complete and utter dismissal school (NO speed, NO power, questioning football smarts for no evident reason?)... i conceded elsewhere, either upthread here and/or in taylor thread, that even if he seizes starting gig, no guarantee he retains starting gig long term, he obviously doesn't have richardson, martin, spiller-type, irreplaceable measurables or talent... but the three down skill set could make him "harder" to replace than if he didn't have such a complete game... hey, in some redraft leagues, he may not even be drafted, so all i'm really saying is you may want to have him on free agent, waiver wire speed dial (or last pick of draft kind of thing)... and in dynasty, the cost is far less than prohibitive, easy and cheap to add him, not disastrous if he turns out to be career backup...
** waldman's scouting report was linked in taylor's thread (not sure if you read it, saw the contributor comment)... it isn't a full report that matt might typically do for main prospects in comprehensive detail by attribute/trait, but in what it does cover, if others haven't read it, is suggestive that taylor is football smart, if anybody has questions about that constellation of aspects or elements in his game...
http://mattwaldmanrsp.com/2013/01/07/the-boiler-room-rb-stepfan-taylor-stanford/
Last edited by a moderator:
loose circuits
Footballguy
hes a beast, just needs an opportunity which is hard to see now. Unfortunately that will make it tough to hold for now, but I'm going to force myself.
loose circuits
Footballguy
probably not a good idea to download there app, right? I accidentally did it
LawFitz
Footballguy
I know he is a headcase, but I think Da'Rick just looks the part of a #1 WR. We'll see if he makes any noise in this league. I thought Manuel looked decent, but not extraordinary. Good first game for sure. Not quite as athletic as I thought, but still way above average enough for it to serve him well if used.
Shutout
Footballguy
This is like déjà vu. I remember years ago someone posting almost the exact same thing about daunte culpepper before he broke out. Not saying there is a comparison here but funny that the same comparisons were madeEJ is looking like a legit NFL starter.
Odd delivery but I can deal with that.
Ball jumps out of his hands.
Not the best ball placement on those slants, he's missing the outside shoulder forcing his WRs to make awkward adjustments into the DBs.
Nice tempo with this offense. The WCO roots of the OC showed on that scoring drive but the two minute offense combined with that tempo, nice stuff.
Childress
Footballguy
Hilton's TD catch was impressive, but in a similarly impressive fashion was a 7 yard catch he had with Hasselback in. It was a very impressive toe tapping catch for a 1st down. He made a very difficult catch seem effortless Roddy White style. He general seemed but more in control out there and I bet he'll make a huge leap from year 1 to year 2.
massraider
Footballguy
Yeah. You know, I thought after the first series, he was very accurate on a bunch of short passes. Which frankly, you don't always see in the preseason. Short accuracy, that is.
If you played back all the passes of the unproven QBs in this 1st week of the preseason, you see a LOT of short, easy passes off the mark.
Manuel's passes:
1. Deep crossing pattern, led the WR too much.
2. Screen to Jackson, about a 3 yard pass. Completed, blown up in backfield.
3. Play action rollout, pass was accurate but wasn't squared up, not enough mustard on it, allowing defender to break up pass. (This pass looked to me, like a young QB finding out that when a guy is open in the NFL, it's for a lot less time than in the ACC. Maybe next time he gets himself set a bit quicker, and makes an easy completion. Just a thought)
4. Shotgun, 8 yard out to Graham, good accuracy and velocity.
5. Screen to Jackson.
6. Short crossing to Jackson, behind him, defender broke it up.
7. Shotgun, short crossing to Woods. Double clutched it before going to him, tackle made immediately. Only other play was maybe Spiller in the flat.
8. Sideline pass to Woods. Woods did a quick in, had to reach back for the ball. If Manuel had led him, he would have led him right into a LB, so I am going to call this one a good pass.
9. Short middle dump to Hogan, short of the receiver. If a pattern is emerging, it's that Manuel is worried about throwing it over the middle.
At this point in my DVR'ing, I say to myself, "What the frik? Every time I think Manuel will get the ball on his 20, that dang Goodwin kid runs the ball back!" Someone might wanna keep an eye on him.
Two minute drill:
10. Shotgun, man in his face, completes a pass for five yard to Woods across the field. Pass was high, but not bad considering the duress.
11. Shotgun, quick pass in flat to the TE, Lee Smith (?). Not a great pass, a little high, and behind him.
12. Quick out to Choice, who snares a slightly low pass in stride, and runs out of bounds.
13. Intermediate slant to Woods, slightly behind him. 1st down.
14 Shotgun, easy five yard out to Choice, perfect placement.
15. Gets some pressure after 1st quick look isn't there, scrambles, and throws it away. Holding call.
15. Shotgun, his best pass over the middle, to Woods,6 yards or so, in stride, gets great YAC.
16. Shotgun, 1st look isn't there, goes back the other way to Choice in the left flat. Little yardage, nice to see tho.
17. Shotgun, decisive pass down the middle to Dickerson for the TD, splitting the safeties. Good pass, good velocity.
End of first half.
I would compare his on field presence to Cam Newton. No happy feet, doesn't seem rushed. I was pretty encouraged by his demeanour. Also, the offense seemed VERY rhythm based. 1,2,3, ball's out.
I was kind of thinking bust with this kid, drafted too high, word was that he didn't have the anticipation, a see-it, throw-it guy.
But so far, so good.
massraider
Footballguy
Browns/Rams game:
Richardson starting for Rams. Thrown to first two plays, dropped the 2nd as a check down. Had a nice block on the next play, an all out blitz that the Rams picked up, and picked up a firs down on a nice pass/catch Bradford to Givens. Nice screen run, maybe didn't get all he could, looked a little indecisive. He looks fast, if not special. Which is better than Pead, that's for sure.
Gordon might be a headcase pothead, but he's good, man.
Alec Ogletree has been starting as SLB, looks pretty average.
Richardson starting for Rams. Thrown to first two plays, dropped the 2nd as a check down. Had a nice block on the next play, an all out blitz that the Rams picked up, and picked up a firs down on a nice pass/catch Bradford to Givens. Nice screen run, maybe didn't get all he could, looked a little indecisive. He looks fast, if not special. Which is better than Pead, that's for sure.
Gordon might be a headcase pothead, but he's good, man.
Alec Ogletree has been starting as SLB, looks pretty average.
massraider
Footballguy
Man, Jimmy Graham is a lot bigger.
Tatonka
Footballguy
chris gragg was running with the ones today because scott chandler is still out. he had one reception in the first half. tough to tell how much the TEs will be used in this offense. the knock on him was his blocking but he made a few key blocks early when spiller ripped off two big runs.
Gragg did drop a TD late in the game. hit him in the hands.
Gragg did drop a TD late in the game. hit him in the hands.
Last edited by a moderator:
Tatonka
Footballguy
figured I would drop this here as it is relevant and got buried quick.
based on what I saw in the first half of the bills game (im a bills fan), they will definitely be no huddle this season. EJ Manuel had 21 pass attempts in the first half. He struggled some early, but shined in the 2 minute drill. CJ Spiller looked absolutely electric in the opening drive. I think his first two runs were both for 15 yards and he left a lot of guys on the defense picking up their jock.
EJ will take some time to progress, so expect Spiller to carry the load early and he will catch a lot of dump offs as well. The WRs have a ton of speed. Stevie Johnson will be the "slow" one playing out of the slot quite a bit. TJ Graham, Robert Woods, Marquise Goodwin (who took one to the house on a kick off), Da'rick Rogers, and CJ Spiller will turn the game into a track meet. you have 3 guys in there that are 4.3 or better guys.The offensive line looked solid.
The defense looks like they will be blitz happy (Mike Petine from the Jets is the new D coordinator), which will lead to some big plays for the opposing offense and some big turnovers for the defense.
As a Bills fan, I can't wait to see more. FYI, I traded Foster (my keeper for the last 3 years) for CJ Spiller about a week ago. Based on what I saw in this game, I'm completely comfortable with the decision. gives me a chance to root for CJ as a homer, but if he gets the additional 100 touches that the prior coaching staff should have given him last year, and stays healthy, he will exceed 2000 total yards (rushing and receiving) without a doubt. The bills need to start working on his contract extension immediately.
based on what I saw in the first half of the bills game (im a bills fan), they will definitely be no huddle this season. EJ Manuel had 21 pass attempts in the first half. He struggled some early, but shined in the 2 minute drill. CJ Spiller looked absolutely electric in the opening drive. I think his first two runs were both for 15 yards and he left a lot of guys on the defense picking up their jock.
EJ will take some time to progress, so expect Spiller to carry the load early and he will catch a lot of dump offs as well. The WRs have a ton of speed. Stevie Johnson will be the "slow" one playing out of the slot quite a bit. TJ Graham, Robert Woods, Marquise Goodwin (who took one to the house on a kick off), Da'rick Rogers, and CJ Spiller will turn the game into a track meet. you have 3 guys in there that are 4.3 or better guys.The offensive line looked solid.
The defense looks like they will be blitz happy (Mike Petine from the Jets is the new D coordinator), which will lead to some big plays for the opposing offense and some big turnovers for the defense.
As a Bills fan, I can't wait to see more. FYI, I traded Foster (my keeper for the last 3 years) for CJ Spiller about a week ago. Based on what I saw in this game, I'm completely comfortable with the decision. gives me a chance to root for CJ as a homer, but if he gets the additional 100 touches that the prior coaching staff should have given him last year, and stays healthy, he will exceed 2000 total yards (rushing and receiving) without a doubt. The bills need to start working on his contract extension immediately.
grateful zed
Footballguy
i was in a league where the commish set the return yards points way to high. well into the season i picked up on it and grabed joshua cripp and ted gin jr and crushed.
Kenny Powers
Footballguy
Andrew74
Footballguy
Ripped bigger or fat bigger?
Cleat Spike
Footballguy
[SIZE=9pt]Need to check in on Robinson after this first preseason game. I'm carrying him in a couple deeper PPR dynasty leagues. I tuned in to see what he looked like and it seems like they kept targeting Larry Donnell as the pass catching TE (I'm not sure if he was lined up in the backfield on his catches though), while Robinson stayed in to block. I didn't see every snap of his, but when he did release out for a pass he wasn't targeted much. It concerned me that Donnell got what seemed like a lot of looks over Robinson. I'm not sure if Donnell is just on the bubble and they are trying to see what he can do live or if they really like him better (role player) to be the pass catching TE and Robinson is the role player that blocks first and catches as a secondary option only. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]Observations on Robinson though. He's huge! He looks like the biggest guy on the line. When you first see him line up line up in a WR/TE stance on the line, you think there is no way this big guy is going to be able to move (and at a fast pace). Then he gets off and you see how fluid and how surprisingly quick he is for a big man. He almost looks too big to be a TE at first, but his athleticism might just make up for that look.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]Donnell lined up at FB a lot too, so they obviously view him as a guy they want to get on the field more in an H-back type role, so who's the sleeper here and will he eat into Robinson's chance to emerge? Can Robinson realistically emerge within all this? [/SIZE]
Last edited by a moderator:
massraider
Footballguy
zamboni
Footballguy
I read a blurb the other day that he intentionally got bigger to help improve his blocking ability. As long as it doesn't slow him down, hopefully that is a good thing for fantasy purposes so that he doesn't come off the field as much as he did last year.
Area51Inhabitant
Footballguy
He was only out there for a couple of series as was the rest of the Colts 1st team offense but I thought he looked pretty good on his three carries. Bradshaw didn't play though so I don't know what that means with regard to his usage in the regular season.ex-ghost said:
Area51Inhabitant
Footballguy
Holy cow. That's a great job there. I'll admit to being a bit emotional during some of my in game comments with regard to Manuel. My "D" grade post came right after he threw that bad incompletion on third down on the short crossing route that way way behind the receiver. I would definitely have to revise his overall game grade to the B-/C+ range. His work on that two minute drive was very solid and that TD pass that he threw to Dickerson was far and away the best throw he made yesterday.massraider said:
TALL hobbit
Footballguy
I honestly have no stake in "who's the more talented" RB debate. But there's a big reason Morris was interesting to me last year and Taylor isn't.Bob Magaw said:
team situation.
I'm not sure how far we'd have to go back to find a season when AZ had an above average rushing attack - but I don't remember it. Someone else pointed out that the bad runs were a result of Taylor being met in the backfield, or tripped up as soon as he got the ball --- that's what any AZ RB must contend with. So, not blaming the guy, but don't see how he does anything behind that line.
EBF
Footballguy
The Chargers didn't have a great RB until Tomlinson. The Vikings had a mediocre running game for years until Peterson showed up.
Obviously nobody on Arizona's roster = Tomlinson or Peterson from a talent standpoint. My point is that you can't necessarily use a team's immediate past to predict its future. Things change quickly in the NFL. A team that struggles one year can be a Super Bowl contender the next year. Arizona has a new head coach, a new quarterback, and at least two new starters on the OL. I don't think this situation is hopeless. It's a decent opportunity. Whether or not any of the RBs on the roster will capitalize...well that's another question.
Cleat Spike
Footballguy
Thought the complete opposite. First thing I thought on his 2 big runs were that doesn't happen in a real game. Blount stopping and reversing field, then reversing field again...c'mon! I'm sticking to it. I'm not really sure if he was running on #1s or 2s, but he looked pretty slow (although fast for a big man) and lumbering and would not have made those runs pop W1 when all first team starters are buttoned up on both sides of the ball. Maybe in the 4th quarter it's a different story, but still feel Bolden offers so much more for that RB spot.
JFS171
Footballguy
Gonna pump the brakes a bit on the Barner hype after catching the game on NFL Network's replay (didn't see it live). Tauren Poole is the guy to speculate on here if you think Stew's injury is going to linger, and there's hope for another RB to get involved beyond DW and Tolbert.Ron_Mexico said:
Poole played well ahead of Barner, mixing in with the starters a little before handling all the second team reps himself. Once they seemed convinced Poole had received enough work, Barner came on for the rest of the game.
Before dismissing Poole, you should remember he looked really good in the preseason in 2012 before being placed on IR with a rib injury. He totaled 56 yards and a TD on 11 carries while also notching four catches for another 37 yards across 2 games. Presumably the staff has been impressed given he remains above Barner in the pecking order, though we'll see how that plays out. Poole didn't do much at all with his carries on Friday night, but he definitely played ahead of Barner.
Barner also looked really little to me, and seemed more like a situational weapon than a guy capable of taking on a larger load. Just my 2 cents.
TALL hobbit
Footballguy
I agree with you that you don't want to be prisoner of the immediate moment, but the Cardinals have been terrible at running the ball for a decade. It would take a huge improvement for the Cardinals to become an average rushing team.
Counting backwards from 2012, here's where the Cardinals ranked in regular season rushing yards over the pass 10 years:
32, 24, 32, 28, 32, 29, 30, 32, 22, 29
At that point I just stopped. 4 times they were the worst rushing team in the league. 3 out of the last 5 years they were the worst - 60% of the time.
You mention that the Vikings only had a mediocre rushing game until Peterson showed up --- my point is that the Cardinals haven't sniffed mediocre when running the ball for the past decade -- never mind that there's no one like LT or Peterson on their squad.
Would a HOFer RB help the Cardinals? Sure, of course, but for the RBs stuck on that team - I don't have high hopes for any of them for this season. Will they be better, probably, but becoming the 25th rushing team would be a big improvement.
People were arguing over the talent of Taylor vs Morris. My point was that Taylor is on the worst rushing team in the league - even if you can get him cheaply for a late round flyer - IMO there's going to be a better late round flyer RB option on another team.
Honestly, I don't have anything against the Cardinals, but in terms of the preseason and finding value - I'm focusing on the passing game and Floyd vs Roberts. I don't think a single offseason is enough to fix their rushing woes.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
both of you make some good points...
the cards rushing ineptness has been epic at times...
a couple points...
there is a difference between collective ineptitude and the individual variety... in 2011, beanie wells finished in top 20 in non-PPR scoring format (not sure about PPR?)... so there could be pockets of usefulness within the larger ineptitude (in this instance, it didn't matter if any other cards did well, as long as beanie got his)...
secondly, the litany of bad rushing seasons extending back for a decade is daunting, but it would be interesting to see who the RBs were, and if they were hit by a disproportionate number of injuries during that time frame (some teams are hit harder than others at different position groups and at different times in a decade... sometimes it may "even out" over that time, sometimes not)... stephens-howling is fast, but you could make a case taylor has better three down skill set, and better choice for a volume runner...
if wells hadn't had knee problems, maybe he would have finished in top 20 in 2012 as well? or maybe ryan williams could have had a couple top 20 seasons? if part of the issue is they have been unlucky with injuries, we could expect that to impact rushing totals over a several year period (we could also add maybe it didn't make sense to back up an injury prone dude with an injury prone dude, i've never understood that thought process and you could say it is a pet peeve, but that is another conversation... we could also question the team's failure to obtain through draft, trade or free agency better quality depth, but that is also another conversation), maybe they aren't "doomed" to fail for systemic reasons too broad in scope and too deeply underlying to possibly remedy in one year, to the point that taylor won't make sense even as last round flyer, as there will be too many other options with last round pick?
one advantage taylor has over likes of wells and williams, even if he isn't a physical specimen or athlete of their caliber (williams had like 40" VJ?), is durability.
a third point is that ARI has had some horrid QBs since warner (though i take it they had some bad rushing offenses when he was there as well... again, maybe lack of talent at position and bad personell?)... if you can't throw, defense can stack against run... palmer, especially with some pretty good receiving options on paper, could be far better than skelton and the rest of the cast of thousands signal callers since warner...
if nothing else, if taylor inherits starting job at some point because of knee problems with mendenhall and/or williams, the cards could be around goal line more, and he could surprise with rushing TDs?
EBF
Footballguy
It wouldn't take much improvement for them to yield a RB2. They don't need to be a rushing juggernaut to yield a useful FF player.
I don't like getting locked into the idea that a team's history determines its future. Especially not in situations where there has been such a significant shake-up. It's one thing to say that the Patriots and Saints are going to pass the ball well. That's a reasonable expectation because of their history and because the coaching staff and QB are the same as they were during the preceding several years. But to suggest that the failures of guys like Beanie Wells, Ancient Edgerrin James, Ancient Emmitt Smith, and Thomas Jones 10+ years ago has any bearing on the outlook for a completely revamped unit doesn't really jive with me.
I'll just say it again. New coach. New QB. Two new starters on the OL. Three new RBs. There's nowhere to go but up after last year's perfect storm of failure.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
The Vikings were 16th in rushing yards in 2006 the season before Peterson was drafted 1820 rushing yards. But to say the Vikings were not a good rushing team before Peterson is not correct. They did have a bad year in 2005 with only 1467 yards rushing. That is the low point. The Vikings had 1823 yards rushing (18th) in 2004. In 2003 they had 2343 yards rushing (4th) with a combination of Moe Williams, the Wizzenator, Michael Bennett and others. In 2002 they 2507 yards (1st) with Bennett, Moe Williams, Culpepper doing most of the work.
The Vikings have been a good rushing team. They just did not have a very good RB since Robert Smith retired and obviously never had a RB as good as AD. There may have been some teams that have a better track record than the Vikings as a rushing offense but for the most part I think they have been above average. The Cardinals not so much.
I do think Cooper should provide a big upgrade to their running game however and the Winston signing is a big improvement as well. If Levi can improve his game they have perhaps the best Oline I have seen there in awhile.
I did enjoy this article about Cooper and Ellington I read recently- http://www.revengeofthebirds.com/2013/7/19/4537400/the-arizona-cardinals-running-game-alan-faneca-jonathan-cooper-and
I have doubts about Ellington seeing much playing time and last I heard he was hurt. He did not play.
I think Taylor fits the profile of the RB who can do the things Arians wants his RB to do. Protect the QB and occasionally run the ball when the defense drops too many guys in coverage. I do not think they will focus much on running the ball, that is not the teams strength, nor is it what Arians showed he wanted to do last season coaching Luck which was a 41/59% split in favor of passing. I have the Cardinals passing 62% of the time which is 1% less than what they did last season. Rushing up to 38% of offensive plays, up from the 36.6% they had last season.
Last edited by a moderator:
