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Preseason Game Observations (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter mikel2014
- Start date
Hooper31
Footballguy
No. Michael is 3rd in that pecking order. Neither Lynch or Turbin were going to play last night. Here's my Seattle running back thoughts....
Seattle is going to pound Lynch this year. I expect him to get a lot of carries. And when I say a lot, I mean I expect his career high. His contract is structured so that his last year in Seattle will either be 2013 or 2014 (link to details). There's no chance he's a Seahawk in 2015 with a 9 million dollar cap figure. My guess is that this is the year they ride him for all he's worth. 2013 is the last year that his salary is guaranteed. They will have the ability to cut him next year in a large cap saving maneuver if they feel the need.
The other aspect that will prevent Michael from playing this year is his play on third down is a wildcard for now. We got to see Turbin play well on third down last year both in blitz pick up and catching the ball out of the back field. He was surprisingly good in that role. We don't know how well Michael picks up the blitz yet. My guess is that we see a lot of Lynch on early downs and Turbin as the breather/change of pace back.
All this said, I was very impressed with Michael last night. Several Seattle homers listed him as the bright spot on offense last night (link).
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ROYALWITCHEESE
Footballguy
JFS171
Footballguy
Which was as much on McCoy as it was on James...
Are you saying the offense doesn't change at all when they go from Kaepernick to Colt McCoy?
JFS171
Footballguy
Suppose we'll agree to disagree. His "bad carries against backups" also came with his own back-ups in the game. I'll lend much more significance to how he looked against the other team's starters with his own team's starters.
Who was blocking for him and who were they blocking?
Oops. Already been answered. So his blockers were blocking 2nd stingers so he then looks like a second stringer? That would mean he plays down to the competition, then.
In all seriousness, it's a preseason game. Ignore the stats...both good and bad. It's cliche', but the eyeball test is what counts in preseason games...and even then, you still need to add salt.
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JFS171
Footballguy
Is this 20 questions? Did you watch the game? Or just see the box score?
There's 3 for you.
Honestly, I watched him on the first drive, with his starters, against Denver's starting defense. Take it FWIW. If you think they all matter, fine by me.
I'll be targeting James in leagues. I think it's utterly asinine to suggest Kaepernick's presence in the game has zero effect on how defenses play the 49ers.
Hooper31
Footballguy
Other random Seattle / San Diego thoughts...
* Seattle second and third string are light years better than San Diego. Seattle has a deep roster with many guys that could be starters around the league. I have a feeling that other GMs around the league are going to be watching closely for players that don't make Seattle's 53 man roster.
* Gates moved well last night. Better than expected.
* Kearse and Williams are well ahead of Harper on the Seattle WR depth chart. I will be surprised to see Harper make the roster.
* Mathews ran well. Good burst. He flashed the talent that so many have drooled over, but then regretted later. I believe in Mathews talent, but not the rest of the team. Their offensive line is one injury away from being a big problem. Mathews can't do it alone. The Seattle second and third team defense made San Diego look bad. Very bad.
* Seattle second and third string are light years better than San Diego. Seattle has a deep roster with many guys that could be starters around the league. I have a feeling that other GMs around the league are going to be watching closely for players that don't make Seattle's 53 man roster.
* Gates moved well last night. Better than expected.
* Kearse and Williams are well ahead of Harper on the Seattle WR depth chart. I will be surprised to see Harper make the roster.
* Mathews ran well. Good burst. He flashed the talent that so many have drooled over, but then regretted later. I believe in Mathews talent, but not the rest of the team. Their offensive line is one injury away from being a big problem. Mathews can't do it alone. The Seattle second and third team defense made San Diego look bad. Very bad.
ROYALWITCHEESE
Footballguy
I wonder if Christine Michael can use the "Wilson was out" excuse? Wait he doesn't need to. Ballers gonna ball.
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
Any thoughts on Sam Bradford? Does he look like he has good command of the offense? The skill players are young so it will take time but I am hoping with Bradford in his 2nd year with the same OC he starts showing why he was a #1 pick.
JFS171
Footballguy
I 100% agree. In MY OPINION, to MY EYES, I was impressed with how James got through the hole on the first drive with the first team offense. Running up the gut, not bouncing everything to the outside, showing some burst through the hole, and popping out the back side.
To ME, that matters more than what happened with back-up lineman and Colt McCoy in the game. It's a pre-season observations thread. Those were MY observations.
Carry on.
ImTheScientist
Footballguy
You won't know anything official til week 1. Im guessing he passes him. Turbin is just average.
ImTheScientist
Footballguy
He did a few good and a few bad things as expected from a rookie. I don't see him making an impact this year. Physcially he looked impressive.
Keith Lewis
Footballguy
49ers game
Kaep great, Boldin great, 1 series only
Jenkins looked like garbage, he wasn't targeted much because he doesn't get open!!! There was a plan to get him work too, he needs to step up.
James looked solid, I thought he looked much better than Hillman by comparison.
Thought Hillman looked weak, goes down easy and not as fast as advertised. Ball looked on par with Hillman, they look like they would have much different roles but neither looked good honestly. CJ Anderson, a lowly backup looked awesome though, guy broke a lot of tackles last night.
Osweiller looked promising for the future.
49ers safety Reid looked fantastic, so did Cox and a LBer #57 whose name escapes me.
Kaep great, Boldin great, 1 series only
Jenkins looked like garbage, he wasn't targeted much because he doesn't get open!!! There was a plan to get him work too, he needs to step up.
James looked solid, I thought he looked much better than Hillman by comparison.
Thought Hillman looked weak, goes down easy and not as fast as advertised. Ball looked on par with Hillman, they look like they would have much different roles but neither looked good honestly. CJ Anderson, a lowly backup looked awesome though, guy broke a lot of tackles last night.
Osweiller looked promising for the future.
49ers safety Reid looked fantastic, so did Cox and a LBer #57 whose name escapes me.
treat88
Footballguy
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Hooper31
Footballguy
He looks the role of the tall, fast, pass catching tight end. On their first third down Wilson drilled him high with a bullet that went off his hands. The coverage was tight and the pass had a lot on it, but Wilson didn't do much to gain separation. He will likely serve as the second TE behind Miller. His ability to block will be the issue. Saw him get absolutely pancaked on an XP after a second half TD. Miller is crucial for the Seattle offense because he blocks well and this is a run first offense.
ROYALWITCHEESE
Footballguy
I thought he looked solid. I've had my doubts about him, but he looked like a new QB.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Cleveland passing attack may not be a fantasy wasteland. Weeden looked pretty sharp executing the Turner offense.
Hooper31
Footballguy
This will be interesting. I see him being the 5th RB on offense. Seattle is one of the few teams that still incorporates a nearly full time FB in Michael Robinson. They will have to have a backup on the roster during game days, so I see Ware suiting up if he can play that role. I think we'll know a lot more about this situation as preseason wraps up. For now I think they're still in serious evaluation phase. If anything, Ware is the backup FB. I don't see him touching the ball as the feature RB unless there are a ton of injuries.
ImTheScientist
Footballguy
I know people are all excited about Ware....i don't see it. Maybe he can carve out a role as a FB but they aren't even using him that way currently even though they list him there.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
As long as the line blocks like they did last year, and like they did so far, totally agree.
JustinHawkins
Footballguy
Weeden looked roster worthy for sure. I would have never DREAMED that after last year.
treat88
Footballguy
I'm not sure about all excited, but I do think he's a tough talented kid that is a great fit for that offense.
No way he would last on the PS, but at the same time its tough to carry 5 backs unless they play teams. I know Turbin has does some returning...do Robinson and Ware have a role on ST?
I appreciate the insight. Thanks.
ImTheScientist
Footballguy
I think they are giving Ware some 3rd down looks. I know Robinson plays on ST's....didn't see if Ware was last night. Turbin isn't in the mix to return kicks currently......Christine Michael was lining up there however and has done so in training camp.
Hooper31
Footballguy
No on Robinson (he did once upon a time, but that time has passed). He's in a precarious situation. He's at the top of the list for potential cap casualties. However, there are some circumstances that will likely keep him on the roster. He's a leader in the locker room. The team has made a commitment to pay their own and keep the right sort of team players (Chancellor, Browner, Bryant, Mebane, etc). If they were to cut Robinson it would be viewed as an enormous betrayal to the players. Also, Seattle still utilizes the FB position in their base offense. Robinson is the only real FB on the roster with any experience.
If Ware is to be on the roster he's going to have to play some special teams IMO. That said, I didn't notice him on special teams at all last night.
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ImTheScientist
Footballguy
I didn't notice last night.... but Mike Rob does play ST's. Did last year.
http://www.nfl.com/player/michaelrobinson/2506914/careerstats
Note the defensive stats.
ETA: They also didn't "commit" to Browner. They rased his base pay a bit this year but they did not extend his contract.
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Cookiemonster
Footballguy
I bought in on him already and while happy to see this play, I agree with those who thought he looked like he has lost two steps. Bacarri Rambo was the safety he juked badly on the play. Yeah, the guy with his jock on the field that turned and ran step for step with Johnson for the next 40 or so yards and ran a 4.57 a couple months ago. Nice juke, but this is not the guy that ran like a cat on sandpaper a few years back.
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Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
St. Louis Rams QB Sam Bradford looked better than his supporting cast.
He was making a nice opening drive until Pead coughed it up.
His WRs really don't look that good as Browns color analyst and former Browns QB Bernie Kosar pointed out. He, Kosar, kept pointing out how they were making premature breaks and how they weren't turning proper shoulders to block out defenders, how they weren't running correct routes. The fantastic thing about Kosar is that he then would point out how the Browns WRs were making breaks at the proper depth and running crisp routes and making great catches because they had blocked out DBs.
The color commentary by Kosar is FANTASTIC! Entertaining, he just brutalizes anyone who screws up, Cleveland or opposition.
Back to Sam Bradford. He made one deep throw for a TD against the Browns second string defense and it was a simple post where the safety was nowhere to be found and the WR had five yards on the corner, hardly the stuff of a sophisticated pass offensea or good WR coaching.
Basically Sam looked good to me. He's seeing things before they happen, anticipating things, and stepping up and making strong throws. Unfortunately his WRs are not looking good and the passing offense doesn't look good right now but that doens't mean that Bradford is not looking good, he is. Its his supporting cast right now.
About the only support I saw for Sam, other than the sheer speed of go-routes by the speedster WR (I forget his name but he is a legit deep threat but you an't count on that as an NFL passing attack) was RB Daryl Richardson. Good hands, sets up his blocks on screens, nice dump off option. I think if they had some imagination they would give him some looks in the slot or even try splitting him out wide occasionally but it seems that their are coaching issues with that passing attack.
Add TE Cook didn't do much. It was the first X-game but his MO has always been to disapear for weeks on end and then blow up after you had written him off.
Bottom line, Sam looks good but the supporting cast eh? I just don't know about that right now.
ShaHBucks
Footballguy
The only thing I notice about Bradford is his eye for Givens. He always has a favorite WR that he will target relentlessly. It doesn't look like its Austin at this point.
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
the long pass from bradford to givens was 59 yards, didn't go for a TD, but if he had led givens a little more, might have been an 80 yd TD...
givens has almost mike wallace-type deep speed, he can run by most DBs (ran a 10.5 or even 10.4 100 m., at one time was one of the five fastest preps in texas)...
he did complete the drive with a TD to givens (3 yds)...
cook and austin weren't involved much (austin dropped one attempt), but it isn't like they had a lot of opportunity in first preseason game, and they didn't game plan for the browns, les snead noted it was very vanilla...
pettis also had a drop...
richardson looked good, my only question is how he holds up with a bigger workload (even if he had a 60/40 RBBC split with pead, it would be a far bigger workload than last year, where he only spelled jackson occasionally)... he hits it hard inside when the play is called or defense dictates it, doesn't bounce everything outside...
pead had unfortunate fumble, did have something like 16-18 yds on 2-3 carries?
rookie defensive starters ogletree (allowed TD in coverage) and mcdonald (missed an open field tackle) made some mistakes, but also made some good plays, about what could be expected in early going... i saw ogletree blow a run play up behind the LOS (i think in first drive), and mcdonald was reportedly credited with 5 tackles by coaching staff...
rams emerged relatively unscathed health-wise, but still awaiting word on nature and severity of shoulder or arm injury to RT (former LT before jake long) saffold, he fell and was said to have landed funny... he was on the sideline early (earlier than other first stringers, bradford had three drives, played into second quarter)... fisher said x-ray was fine, not sure about soft tissue injury... i think he missed good part of last year with pect injury?
givens has almost mike wallace-type deep speed, he can run by most DBs (ran a 10.5 or even 10.4 100 m., at one time was one of the five fastest preps in texas)...
he did complete the drive with a TD to givens (3 yds)...
cook and austin weren't involved much (austin dropped one attempt), but it isn't like they had a lot of opportunity in first preseason game, and they didn't game plan for the browns, les snead noted it was very vanilla...
pettis also had a drop...
richardson looked good, my only question is how he holds up with a bigger workload (even if he had a 60/40 RBBC split with pead, it would be a far bigger workload than last year, where he only spelled jackson occasionally)... he hits it hard inside when the play is called or defense dictates it, doesn't bounce everything outside...
pead had unfortunate fumble, did have something like 16-18 yds on 2-3 carries?
rookie defensive starters ogletree (allowed TD in coverage) and mcdonald (missed an open field tackle) made some mistakes, but also made some good plays, about what could be expected in early going... i saw ogletree blow a run play up behind the LOS (i think in first drive), and mcdonald was reportedly credited with 5 tackles by coaching staff...
rams emerged relatively unscathed health-wise, but still awaiting word on nature and severity of shoulder or arm injury to RT (former LT before jake long) saffold, he fell and was said to have landed funny... he was on the sideline early (earlier than other first stringers, bradford had three drives, played into second quarter)... fisher said x-ray was fine, not sure about soft tissue injury... i think he missed good part of last year with pect injury?
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EBF
Footballguy
Most sources I've read have Harper pretty low on the depth chart. Kearse has an extra year in the system though and Williams is a 27 year old veteran, so those guys definitely had a head start in the race. Baldwin, Tate, and Rice are locks for the roster. Harvin will have a spot when he's healthy. That leaves probably two spots for the rest. I see Kearse getting one of those spots and the other going to one of Harper vs. Williams vs. Bates.
The question for the Seahawks staff is whether or not you take the immediate help in Williams or gamble that Harper will develop into a superior player down the line. I wouldn't be surprised to see them opt for the latter. Williams has been around the league for a while and has largely failed to make an impact. His skill set is pretty redundant with what they already have in Rice, a superior version of the same kind of player. Teams don't usually give up on their 4th round pick in his rookie year, although it does happen occasionally. Add it all up and I think Harper makes the roster despite a relatively quiet camp. Carroll did come out and praise him a couple days ago and apparently he was open for a big TD last night that Jackson missed, so he has that going for him.
ROYALWITCHEESE
Footballguy
jwb
Footballguy
Didn't Williams get some decent buzz as a good prospect a few years ago in AZ? Obviously, it never panned out, but with Fitz/Boldin (at the time) and Breaston being a decent #3, maybe that's understandable.
I grabbed him after Harvin got hurt in a few leagues (then dropped and re-grabbed), and was pleased to see his performance last night. Probably at least worth watching.
ImTheScientist
Footballguy
JustinHawkins
Footballguy
EBF
Footballguy
He did, and nothing came of it. Big thread about him from way back when:
http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=554100&hl=%22stephen+williams%22
Andre Roberts was one of "my guys" in the same rookie class as Williams, so I remember those days pretty well. Williams beat Roberts out of the starting blocks by a wide margin, but Roberts eventually became the better player. Williams was never able to turn his training camp stardom into any meaningful production on the field.
I don't know if the same will happen with Harper/Williams, but it's certainly possible. One thing I'd point out is that depth charts are sometimes a reflection of who's the best player right now, and not necessarily who's the best player long term. It works the same way in FF. If you need to win a game tomorrow, you'd probably rather start Nate Burleson than Justin Hunter. If you're trying to decide who to keep for the next 3-4 years, you'd probably take Hunter over Burleson.
Just a reminder that when teams are making roster decisions, it's not just about who's better at this exact moment in time.
Buffaloes
Footballguy
feels like there is way too much weight being put into anything that happened last night. Denver was sitting in a vanilla base d the entire 1st drive and I assume every other team playing last night did the same.
JFS171
Footballguy
Probably fair - I still thought James looked good though, and was pleased to see them start him and see him perform, not just on the perimeter.
By that same logic, how bad does it make the DEN guys look if SF was sitting in a vanilla base D?
EBF
Footballguy
Hard to believe he's still kicking around the NFL. Whitehurst is the poster boy for a common mistake teams make with QBs. He's terrible in game situations, but he has all of the physical tools on paper and looks like a god in workouts, so they think they can "coach him up" into an effective player. This. Never. Works.
The guy threw 7 TDs and 17 INTs as a junior in college. He wasn't that much better as a senior. 11 TDs and 10 INTs. Even at that level, he wasn't a good quarterback. A leopard can't change his spots.
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
what kind of numbers are you projecting for austin?
stating them would help to determine if your "criticism" is rooted in projections closer to consensus or outlier status...
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
meant to touch on it, but EBF already did...
it would be a big surprise of harper doesn't make SEA roster (being 4th rounder), he would probably have to look terrible to get cut...
the highest pick that didn't even make the roster by regular season i can recall was a few years ago, shanahan drafted maurice clarett in 3rd (?), but that was an extreme case (he was drinking on the job!
)...
martz completely whiffed on a 3rd i think with eric crouch, he wanted to convert heisman winning (?) running QB to slot WR, and he quit football...
* interested to see how ARI RB stepfan taylor looks tonight, and PIT RB bell sat...
also MIN WR patterson tonight, as well as MIA DE (1.3 pick) dion jordan...
other IDP-related... DAL cover two conversion (especially LBs sean lee and bruce carter), and BUF with new DC (pettine ex-NYJ) and scheme, want to see if rookie MLB/ILB kiko alonso and WLB/ILB nigel bradham are both three down LBs...
it would be a big surprise of harper doesn't make SEA roster (being 4th rounder), he would probably have to look terrible to get cut...
the highest pick that didn't even make the roster by regular season i can recall was a few years ago, shanahan drafted maurice clarett in 3rd (?), but that was an extreme case (he was drinking on the job!
)...martz completely whiffed on a 3rd i think with eric crouch, he wanted to convert heisman winning (?) running QB to slot WR, and he quit football...
* interested to see how ARI RB stepfan taylor looks tonight, and PIT RB bell sat...
also MIN WR patterson tonight, as well as MIA DE (1.3 pick) dion jordan...
other IDP-related... DAL cover two conversion (especially LBs sean lee and bruce carter), and BUF with new DC (pettine ex-NYJ) and scheme, want to see if rookie MLB/ILB kiko alonso and WLB/ILB nigel bradham are both three down LBs...
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