Looks like other guy did work.'BlueDredSo said:Well, I went ahead and traded Graham and Hixon for VJax and Pettigrew. It was accepted almost immediately. I'd feel a little bad if Graham misses significant time, but that's the other guy's fault for not doing work. Oh yeah, I also have Tony G
There was nothing wrong with this trade even if Graham was 100%, which he is not. VJax is a high-end WR2. Grew and Hixon are a wash and irrelevant to this trade. With the way Gonzo is playing, there's no way he'd be sitting him for Graham anyway. Some of you guys are acting like he just traded Graham for Shonn Greene.Looks like other guy did work.'BlueDredSo said:Well, I went ahead and traded Graham and Hixon for VJax and Pettigrew. It was accepted almost immediately. I'd feel a little bad if Graham misses significant time, but that's the other guy's fault for not doing work. Oh yeah, I also have Tony G
graham for a wr2 is even?There was nothing wrong with this trade even if Graham was 100%, which he is not. VJax is a high-end WR2. Grew and Hixon are a wash and irrelevant to this trade. With the way Gonzo is playing, there's no way he'd be sitting him for Graham anyway. Some of you guys are acting like he just traded Graham for Shonn Greene.Looks like other guy did work.'BlueDredSo said:Well, I went ahead and traded Graham and Hixon for VJax and Pettigrew. It was accepted almost immediately. I'd feel a little bad if Graham misses significant time, but that's the other guy's fault for not doing work. Oh yeah, I also have Tony G
I got em both too. I think both of them can have good games at the same time. although it hasn't happened yet. the first couple games colston could have had a couple tds though...With Colston and Graham on my roster, I'm not sure if I'm or with this latest news.
Here's their post:A source with knowledge of the situation tells Profootballtalk.com Jimmy Graham (ankle) will play in Week 7.The Saints have maintained radio silence on Graham's status since he went down in Week 5, but the fact that he played through the injury against the Chargers suggested he'd be ready to roll following a two-week layoff. We'll get our first tangible clue as to his Week 7 status when the Saints return to practice on Wednesday, but for now owners can pencil their TE1 into the lineup.Roto says he will play.
True. And I know Megatron played after being concussed. Still doesn't make it smart on the team's part. I still believe that if Graham plays this week we can rule out him having a high-ankle sprain. I think it would be near impossible for him to play after only two weeks if that was the injury he suffered.Going back on the field after an injury happens more than you think, Demarco just did it this past weekend.
Exactly, I was trying to unload Gonzalez for a couple weeks, but nobody seemed interested. Graham could still be limited, and right now I think it's probable that he will be at least for a week or two. Even if he was 100% I likely would've done this trade. Atlanta's passing game and Tony G's targets aren't going to slow down. Hixon and Pettigrew were just thrown in to make the rosters even, which we have to do in this league. If anything they both provide high upside to keep on your bench.There was nothing wrong with this trade even if Graham was 100%, which he is not. VJax is a high-end WR2. Grew and Hixon are a wash and irrelevant to this trade. With the way Gonzo is playing, there's no way he'd be sitting him for Graham anyway. Some of you guys are acting like he just traded Graham for Shonn Greene.Looks like other guy did work.'BlueDredSo said:Well, I went ahead and traded Graham and Hixon for VJax and Pettigrew. It was accepted almost immediately. I'd feel a little bad if Graham misses significant time, but that's the other guy's fault for not doing work. Oh yeah, I also have Tony G
Because anyone can edit Wikipedia. Any 12 year old kid can go onto Wikipedia and write, for example, that Michael Vick lost both his legs in a car accident yesterday.
ThisBecause anyone can edit Wikipedia. Any 12 year old kid can go onto Wikipedia and write, for example, that Michael Vick lost both his legs in a car accident yesterday.
Fair enough. I thought there was some level of auditing. Then I clicked the edit link...So, should I remove it?? Heh..ThisBecause anyone can edit Wikipedia. Any 12 year old kid can go onto Wikipedia and write, for example, that Michael Vick lost both his legs in a car accident yesterday.
As a Graham and VJax owner I'd want more than VJax for Graham (and I'm not including Pettigrew since he's bye-week filler since the owner has Gonzalez as well). With Gonzalez and Graham, he was dealing from a position of great strength with two elite TEs. I would've wanted to maximize that strength better. I wouldn't settle for anything less than a WR1 or a low-end RB1 for Graham. Just my 2 cents.graham for a wr2 is even?There was nothing wrong with this trade even if Graham was 100%, which he is not. VJax is a high-end WR2. Grew and Hixon are a wash and irrelevant to this trade. With the way Gonzo is playing, there's no way he'd be sitting him for Graham anyway. Some of you guys are acting like he just traded Graham for Shonn Greene.Looks like other guy did work.'BlueDredSo said:Well, I went ahead and traded Graham and Hixon for VJax and Pettigrew. It was accepted almost immediately. I'd feel a little bad if Graham misses significant time, but that's the other guy's fault for not doing work. Oh yeah, I also have Tony G
I don't think it's an awful trade by any means because VJax is damn good, having a fine season and I think it will continue barring injury. I just think you sold low on Graham. Now if the injury proves to be an issue going forward you won't have. But if he's back to being Jimmy Graham, I don't think you will have done well here. All depends on whether the injury is serious or not.I get your point, but right now people aren't willing to trade a WR1 for Graham. He's coming back from an injury of severity that nobody seems to know and WR1's this year are hard to come by. Already having Gonzalez as well as AJ Green and DeSean Jackson, I think this trade worked out pretty well for me. Could I have waited another week while Gonzalez is on bye to have Graham? Sure, but with Jackson on bye as well this week and the questions surrounding Graham I wanted to get something done quick. I honestly just didn't want to deal with deciding between Graham and Gonzalez anymore. We also start 3 WRs and I feel a lot more comfortable with Green/D Jackson/V Jackson going forward than some combination of Green/D Jackson/Hixon/Kerley.
I'm not focusing on Draft Day value. That's long gone. But as a Graham owner I look at the TE position and while it has some depth there aren't many guys who (in PPR which is all I play) have Graham's floor. This is what I was talking about yesterday. If you lose/trade Graham and grab someone like Colby Fleener you're probably going to have many rough weeks whereas with Graham when healthy you can lock 12-15 points in your lineup every single week. To me, that's a significant difference. If Graham is healthy he has almost no downside. There aren't many players at the TE position you can say that about. So if I were to shop him that would be the most significant component in the trade. Even getting someone like VJax, who I like a lot, isn't the same because VJax has had a couple of bad games despite being healthy. So again, his floor is considerably lower than Graham's. If I'm going to trade Graham, I want to get someone in return whose floor is comparable. I don't think that's unrealistic given Graham's elite talent and fantasy ability.What makes Graham owners think that just because they spent a first round pick they will get a similar return?
My mistake, I forgot to sort my rankings on a PPG basis instead of total points, why did no one correct me?VJax is the 9th best WR in standard.VJax is ranked 12th in .5PPR.VJax is ranked 15th in 1PRR.So is Graham with a low-end WR1/high-end WR2? Absolutely.graham for a wr2 is even?There was nothing wrong with this trade even if Graham was 100%, which he is not. VJax is a high-end WR2. Grew and Hixon are a wash and irrelevant to this trade. With the way Gonzo is playing, there's no way he'd be sitting him for Graham anyway. Some of you guys are acting like he just traded Graham for Shonn Greene.Looks like other guy did work.'BlueDredSo said:Well, I went ahead and traded Graham and Hixon for VJax and Pettigrew. It was accepted almost immediately. I'd feel a little bad if Graham misses significant time, but that's the other guy's fault for not doing work. Oh yeah, I also have Tony G
Could we resume talking about whether Graham is going to play or not (looks like he will). What do owners expect from him this week?
PPG is not how you measure value, it is value over replacement. Graham had 100 VBD in STANDARD formats last year - higher in PPR (too lazy to do the work and FBG doesn't give it to me). Only 1 WR scored provided more (Calvin). Graham was a 1st round start up pick, rightly so, and Jackson is one of many in the 3rd-4th round range. The owner getting Graham did work. Before getting injured, he was on pace for 20 or so fewer points. Lets say is VBD would have been 80 - only 4 WRs provided more.So is Graham with a low-end WR1/high-end WR2? Absolutely.
the game is @ noon on sunday. plenty of time to make arrangements for our teams. I bet he practices at least in a limited way by Friday....could be headed towards the dreaded GTD
dont worry, itll be rejectedShould I cancel my trade offer of Graham and Ridley for Tony G and T Rich ?
His VBD last year is mostly irrelevant, as is his draft spot (it's a sunk cost). The only thing you should consider in evaluting a trade is the players' values going forward. According to FBG Top 200 Forward values for PPR scoring, Vincent Jackson is 47th overall with a value of 20.7. Jimmy Graham is 51st overall with a value of 18.8. It doesn't get much more even than that. You may personally disagree with FBG's values, but you have to at least concede that they do this for a living and don't have any dog in this fight, and strictly by their numbers they'd say Graham's value is right around Jackson's value for the rest of the year.PPG is not how you measure value, it is value over replacement.So is Graham with a low-end WR1/high-end WR2? Absolutely.
Graham had 100 VBD in STANDARD formats last year - higher in PPR (too lazy to do the work and FBG doesn't give it to me). Only 1 WR scored provided more (Calvin).
Graham was a 1st round start up pick, rightly so, and Jackson is one of many in the 3rd-4th round range.
He'll play. Calm down. If he doesn't he'll play the next week. Nothing about this sounds serious outside of a rumor posted on a message board.JameyEisenberg Jamey EisenbergNo practice Wednesday for Jimmy Graham (ankle), but he apparently looked good running around. Stay tuned.
Their TE rankings are out of whack and I would be interested in hearing from them. Gonzalez has 27 VBD thus far, #1 for a TE. Jackson has 13, #17 for a WR. Yet, Jackson is only 3 value points lower. Do they expect Gonzalez' production to cut in half, or Jacksons to double?His VBD last year is mostly irrelevant, as is his draft spot (it's a sunk cost). The only thing you should consider in evaluting a trade is the players' values going forward. According to FBG Top 200 Forward values for PPR scoring, Vincent Jackson is 47th overall with a value of 20.7. Jimmy Graham is 51st overall with a value of 18.8. It doesn't get much more even than that. You may personally disagree with FBG's values, but you have to at least concede that they do this for a living and don't have any dog in this fight, and strictly by their numbers they'd say Graham's value is right around Jackson's value for the rest of the year.PPG is not how you measure value, it is value over replacement.So is Graham with a low-end WR1/high-end WR2? Absolutely.
Graham had 100 VBD in STANDARD formats last year - higher in PPR (too lazy to do the work and FBG doesn't give it to me). Only 1 WR scored provided more (Calvin).
Graham was a 1st round start up pick, rightly so, and Jackson is one of many in the 3rd-4th round range.
You are ever the optimist. I don't see how anyone can forecast a return date until he's practicing fully. Pure wishful thinking and clinging to rabbits feet. When he's back even as a limited participant in practice, let's talk.He'll play. Calm down. If he doesn't he'll play the next week. Nothing about this sounds serious outside of a rumor posted on a message board.JameyEisenberg Jamey EisenbergNo practice Wednesday for Jimmy Graham (ankle), but he apparently looked good running around. Stay tuned.
So far this year, Graham has had 2 good games, 2 average games, and 1 stinker. VJax has had 2 great games, 1 good game, and 2 stinkers.I agree VJax has a low floor and high ceiling, but Graham hasn't exactly been a model of consistency this year plus he has a bum ankle to boot.Continuing on this hijack of Graham's value, I think packersfan brought up a very important missing component of the VBD vs ROS value system of comparing TE's to other skill positions. The fact is we know that Graham has a steady safe high floor and "equivalent" values like Vincent Jackson have very low floors and comparable ceiling. From that aspect Graham is worth more because he's more of a sure thing to have in your lineup.
It doesn't have to be either of those things.Gonzalez has 27 VBD thus far, #1 for a TE. Jackson has 13, #17 for a WR. Yet, Jackson is only 3 value points lower. Do they expect Gonzalez' production to cut in half, or Jacksons to double?
First, Graham's production is not the only thing that determines his value. You should know that, given that you're the one who brought up VBD. Second, I'm not sure how much hyperbole you're using here, but if Graham only produced 80% of what he did last year, his FBG value is probably spot on. The reason he was so valuable last year is because he (and Gronk) put up numbers that were waaaay better than everyone else at the position. If you take away 20% of his production, he's no longer nearly as valuable. Maybe FBG are building into their values the assumption that he really will only be 80% of what he was last year. Maybe they're building in the assumption that he may miss time due to injury. Maybe they're building in the assumption that the rest of the TE pack is better and deeper than it was last year. I don't know, and I'm not defending FBGs rankings, maybe it will turn out that they are way off. Maybe it won't. I simply provided them as an example of a pretty reputable, unbiased source that would place Graham's value right around the spot the other poster traded him for.If you think Graham is even 80% of what he was last year, you'd be wise to ignore FBG's top 200, in that regard.
I think you have to throw out the one stinker. He hurt his ankle early and that game really doesn't count. Yes it hurt Graham owners that day, but it wasn't like he was his fault. I disagree about Graham not being a model of consistency. He's not been uber-great like many expected, but he's been pretty damn consistent.So far this year, Graham has had 2 good games, 2 average games, and 1 stinker. VJax has had 2 great games, 1 good game, and 2 stinkers.I agree VJax has a low floor and high ceiling, but Graham hasn't exactly been a model of consistency this year plus he has a bum ankle to boot.Continuing on this hijack of Graham's value, I think packersfan brought up a very important missing component of the VBD vs ROS value system of comparing TE's to other skill positions. The fact is we know that Graham has a steady safe high floor and "equivalent" values like Vincent Jackson have very low floors and comparable ceiling. From that aspect Graham is worth more because he's more of a sure thing to have in your lineup.
No doubt. I think there is an issue with their formula, honestly. Or would a reputable, unbiased source claim Pierre Thomas, who they project well below baseline, more valuable than Vernon Davis, who they project well above it?ETA: I added up the VBD - they project Graham to provide 41 VBD, from here on out. They predict Jackson to provide 7 VBD, from here on out. Their rankings are off.I simply provided them as an example of a pretty reputable, unbiased source that would place Graham's value right around the spot the other poster traded him for.
That's what I thought too. If he is running, it is probably a regular sprained ankle. Just guessing since it seems it's all we got right now...Concerned Graham owner here. Just wondering if it was a hight ankle sprain why would he be doing anything on the side? If it were a sprain id assume rest would be the only option here? Right?
k, see you Friday.You are ever the optimist. I don't see how anyone can forecast a return date until he's practicing fully. Pure wishful thinking and clinging to rabbits feet. When he's back even as a limited participant in practice, let's talk.He'll play. Calm down. If he doesn't he'll play the next week. Nothing about this sounds serious outside of a rumor posted on a message board.JameyEisenberg Jamey EisenbergNo practice Wednesday for Jimmy Graham (ankle), but he apparently looked good running around. Stay tuned.