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Should Spotify Remove Joe Rogan's Podcast? (1 Viewer)

Should Spotify Remove Joe Rogan's Podcast?

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Joe Bryant

Joe Bryant

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Neil Young created some buzz you likely saw. Joni Mitchell created less. 

But now it may appear Brene Brown has pulled her show from Spotify. There is speculation it's over Joe Rogan. 

Which is super weird as usually when one boycotts or protests, they're not secretive about it. 

In my opinion, if this is accurate, Brene Brown doing this is 100x bigger than Neil Young. I don't know how well she's known in our demographic here but she's a big deal. 

Regardless, there seems to be momentum here. 

So what do you think?

 
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To be clear, you mean his entire podcast, not just the Dr. Malone episode that was particularly problematic?

 
I don't use Spotify and I've never listened to Joe Rogan, so I am as removed from this one as a person could be.

Generally, when Person A says that I should get rid of Person B, and if I don't they'll take their ball and go home, my default assumption is that Person A is probably The Bad Guy in this story.  I see no reason to think otherwise here.

(Usual disclaimers that Spotify is a private business, they be should be able contract with whoever they want on whatever terms they want, the first amendment is not involved, artists are under no obligation to publish through any particular third party, etc.)

 
Juxtatarot said:
To be clear, you mean his entire podcast, not just the Dr. Malone episode that was particularly problematic?
Click to expand...


Here's another question. 

Do we know exactly, and I mean exactly, the reason why people think he should be removed?  Like the specific quote from the specific episode with a link that is the reason why he should be removed? 

Is it the Dr. Malone episode? Do we have a link and quote? Thanks.

Was it something else?

 
Rich Conway said:
Ethically, I think Spotify should tell Rogan to cut it out with the blatant misinformation.  That said, their platform, they can do whatever they want.

Financially, I suspect they'll pull Rogan when the critical mass of artists that boycott costs them more than cutting Rogan does.
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Agreed.  Neil Young and Joni Mitchell are legends, but they are also aging has-beens who aren't even close to the top of the list of artists who get the most plays on Spotify.  This would make more of a dent if Drake, Taylor Swift or Adele did this, but even then it is hard to say as Swift pulled her music from Spotify for like 2-3 years back in 2014 until they finally caved to her demands that artists across the board got paid more by Spotify, so it will likely take a mass of artists/big money makers for it to make a big enough dent for them to cut ties with Rogan. 

I will also point out that I have never and will never use Spotify, and I think little to nothing of Joe Rogan, so I have no bias one way or another here as far as sides go. 

 
I found some more info here. https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/covid-misinformation-joe-rogan-spotify-petition-1282240/

But I want to be sure I'm clear. After the talk about the Dr. Malone article, it says this: (bolded mine)

The Malone segment is far from the first time Rogan has been accused of platforming misinformation on his podcast. In an April 23, 2021 episode, for instance, Rogan actively discouraged young people from getting the vaccine, saying in a conversation with comedian Dave Smith, “if you’re like 21 years old, and you say to me, ‘Should I get vaccinated?’ I’ll go no.'”
Click to expand...


As I've said many times here, I'm for vaccination. I'm vaccinated myself and all my family is.

If I'm understanding right, Rogan's opinion that he'd answer a 21 year old asking him if he should be vaccinated by saying "I'll go no", is his opinion. That's a long ways from "platforming misinformation". 

Am I missing something there or is that just inaccurate writing by Rolling Stone?

 
IvanKaramazov said:
I don't use Spotify and I've never listened to Joe Rogan, so I am as removed from this one as a person could be.

Generally, when Person A says that I should get rid of Person B, and if I don't they'll take their ball and go home, my default assumption is that Person A is probably The Bad Guy in this story.  I see no reason to think otherwise here.

(Usual disclaimers that Spotify is a private business, they be should be able contract with whoever they want on whatever terms they want, the first amendment is not involved, artists are under no obligation to publish through any particular third party, etc.)
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An article in The Atlantic made the analogy of an advertiser pulling from Fox News because of things said by Tucker Carlson. 
 

 
Yes, we need to silence Joe Rogan.

I can’t even comprehend thinking that’s remotely close to something we should do.  There’s s #### ton of harmful movies, songs, books we should ban while we’re at it.

 And if misinformation is the bar, most of the leadership of the CDC and NIH while we’re at it.

Funny thing is the folks that want to ban Rogan or think he’s bad were probably in the “Rage Against The Machine” crowd in their 20’s 🤣

 
FairWarning said:
IWhatever happened to changing the channel? If one doesn’t like Joe Rogan, don’t listen. I’ve never heard him, don’t care to.  
 
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The idea is the misinformation in his show is adding to vaccine hesitancy which is costing lives.  It’s not about being personally offended.

 
Juxtatarot said:
The idea is the misinformation in his show is adding to vaccine hesitancy which is costing lives.  It’s not about being personally offended.
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For any issue X, there are people out there who will construct arguments that people who disagree with them on X are somehow killing people.  X could be vaccines, it could be US foreign policy, it could be traffic enforcement, it could be IP law.  It doesn't matter.  If you allow this argument here, you are handing people a blank check for censorship.

Do you want Donald Trump deciding who gets banned for spreading misinformation?

 
Juxtatarot said:
The idea is the misinformation in his show is adding to vaccine hesitancy which is costing lives.  It’s not about being personally offended.
Click to expand...
 As someone who has gotten three shots (two plus the booster), I have to ask: isn't the toothpaste already out of the tube for pretty much everyone regarding the vaccine?  If you are someone who doesn't want to get vaccinated, hearing Rogan or anyone else talking about it at this point probably isn't going to make a dent, and if you are pro-vaccine, what are the odds you hear something on a Rogan podcast that will after all of this time change your mind?  Probably slim to none. 

 
IvanKaramazov said:
For any issue X, there are people out there who will construct arguments that people who disagree with them on X are somehow killing people.  X could be vaccines, it could be US foreign policy, it could be traffic enforcement, it could be IP law.  It doesn't matter.  If you allow this argument here, you are handing people a blank check for censorship.

Do you want Donald Trump deciding who gets banned for spreading misinformation?
Click to expand...
Donald Trump should be able to censor whoever he chooses on his privately owned platform.  Ditto Spotify.  You know this, of course.

 
Rich Conway said:
Donald Trump should be able to censor whoever he chooses on his privately owned platform.  Ditto Spotify.  You know this, of course.
Click to expand...


IvanKaramazov said:
(Usual disclaimers that Spotify is a private business, they be should be able contract with whoever they want on whatever terms they want, the first amendment is not involved, artists are under no obligation to publish through any particular third party, etc.)
Click to expand...

 
djmich said:
Yes, we need to silence Joe Rogan.

I can’t even comprehend thinking that’s remotely close to something we should do.  There’s s #### ton of harmful movies, songs, books we should ban while we’re at it.

 And if misinformation is the bar, most of the leadership of the CDC and NIH while we’re at it.

Funny thing is the folks that want to ban Rogan or think he’s bad were probably in the “Rage Against The Machine” crowd in their 20’s 🤣
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:goodposting:

The usual suspects will push to cancel him because it doesn’t meet their narrative…..and he will come out of this more popular and richer than ever. Another backfire by the Left in the making. 

 
And there are I think two conversations. They're connected but not the same.

1. What should Spotify do? As the platform owner, what do they do with Rogan?

2. What should another company like Neil Young or Brene Brown's company that is also on Spotify do? A company that is more like a peer of Rogan's, even if their audience is smaller.

For Spotify, they are trying to run their business the best they can.

For Brene Brown, it becomes a different question of more like, "Do we want to be associated with this company?" or "Can we exert influence on the company to make them change?"

The Footballguys equivalent would be Rotopass. We're in Rotopass.com that is a company owned by Matthew Berry and he puts together several website like ours and bundles them for a discounted price. It would be like if one of the other sites started doing something we thought was terrible and we decided we wanted to quit being part of Rotopass. 

 
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I do not have Spotify, nor did I hear the interview.

From what I read Joe Rogan is not anti-vax, he himself is vaccinated.  All he did is interview a Doctor who has a different opinion. I just looked up Dr. Malone as I know nothing about him.  It is not like Joe Rogan talks about COVID every show like Rachel Maddow did when she talked about Russia Collusion every show for a year.  That in itself was mis-information.  

Robert Wallace Malone (born 1959) is an American virologist and immunologist. His work has focused on mRNA technology, of which he was a pioneer, pharmaceuticals, and drug repurposing research. During the COVID-19 pandemic, Malone has promoted misinformation about the safety and efficacy of COVID-19 vaccines. Robert Malone received his BSc in biochemistry from the University of California, Davis in 1984, his MSc in biology from the University of California, San Diego in 1988, and his MD from Northwestern University Feinberg School of Medicine in 1991He attended Harvard Medical School for a year-long postdoctoral studies program.

So the man does have the credentials.  This is a new pandemic and Fauci himself has flip-flopped a number of times.  Is Fauci right all the time?  Is Malone right at all?  I have no idea.

I myself am vaccinated and boosted and just hoping for the best.

 
Ghost Rider said:
 As someone who has gotten three shots (two plus the booster), I have to ask: isn't the toothpaste already out of the tube for pretty much everyone regarding the vaccine?  If you are someone who doesn't want to get vaccinated, hearing Rogan or anyone else talking about it at this point probably isn't going to make a dent, and if you are pro-vaccine, what are the odds you hear something on a Rogan podcast that will after all of this time change your mind?  Probably slim to none. 
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I’d agree that pulling Rogan or even just this one episode would make very little impact.  
 

 
Juxtatarot said:
The idea is the misinformation in his show is adding to vaccine hesitancy which is costing lives.  It’s not about being personally offended.
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Yeah, at this point in the game it’s Joe Rogan that’s keeping people from getting  vaccinated.  :doh:

Its a free country, no vaccination has ever accomplished 100% of our country and controlling others won’t start now. Definitely not this way. His audience will now be 100 times larger and you can think all those trying to censor him. 

 
Joe Bryant said:
And there are I think two conversations. They're connected but not the same.

1. What should Spotify do? As the platform owner, what do they do with Rogan?

2. What should another company like Neil Young or Brene Brown's company that is also on Spotify do? A company that is more like a peer of Rogan's, even if their audience is smaller.
Click to expand...
With respect to the bolded, do you mean "should" in an ethical sense or a financial sense?

 
Joe's show is doing nothing but providing an opportunity for conversation. He is not spreading anything other than the opportunity for people to hear alternative (and common) sides of issues. 

We have individually lost the ability to understand the terms "conversation" and "free thinking" in this country and how important they are for us to individuals who may disagree on things but still be civil to each other. 

People who want things "shut down" are nothing worse than close minded idiots who feel entitled that anything they say or do is absolutely right without a question, and thats not how this works. 

I fully believe that some of Joe's recent guests are in direct reply to the MSM who absolutely went at his throat when he got covid. They lied, doctored photos to make him look sicker than he was, and went out of their way to bring back the "Horse dewormer" drama anytime his name is mentions (even today, months later). Where was their call to be canceled? To be boycotted? The MSM has a history of embellishing topics, getting caught and just letting them just fade into existence. 

Did he take Ivermectin? IDK, he claims he did and guess what, he's still alive to talk about it. So he cant use his show to talk about what seemingly worked for him? He can't use his show to question why certain treatments are being stifled while pushing other, newer treatments? Joe's also a very healthy guy who believes in the power of the human body when optimized. Because the overall medical community is not pushing healthier lifestyles over the "Jab and go" approach, he cant use his show to talk about that?

As a whole, we have put too much emphasis on "what others say" and think that every bit of knowledge we need to regurgitate comes from someone else. Mainly those "someone else's" that are on TV News show with obvious agendas. IN a world where everything is scripted and vetted, we are squeezing out alternative voices that people need to hear in order to make up their own mind. 

I listened to that epp with Dr Malone. I found some points interesting and thought provoking, but then there were times I felt like he was a bit off the reservation. But thats my right to be able to consume and decide for myself. 

The more we cave to these "celebrities" who think they know everything b/cd they can play an instrument or have marketed themselves to have some platform, the more we move away from free thinking and freedom of choice. They are no more qualified to make medical decisions above what they "think" then Joe is, so who the F are they to demand anything??? 

 
IvanKaramazov said:
For any issue X, there are people out there who will construct arguments that people who disagree with them on X are somehow killing people.  X could be vaccines, it could be US foreign policy, it could be traffic enforcement, it could be IP law.  It doesn't matter.  If you allow this argument here, you are handing people a blank check for censorship.

Do you want Donald Trump deciding who gets banned for spreading misinformation?
Click to expand...
Let's try this again.  Who do you think is arguing that the government should censor something?

 
Rich Conway said:
Let's try this again
Click to expand...
When you propose a particular moderation standard, you should stop and ask yourself if you would like to be governed by that moderation standard when it is applied by your worst enemies.  My guess is that for most people who think that Joe Rogan should be removed from Spotify, Donald Trump is probably something close to the Platonic form of their worst enemy.

 
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Joe Bryant said:
I do wonder how folks feel about this if you support the artist that is removing the content.

Brene Brown has an incredibly loyal and supportive audience. She has tons of goodwill built up there with them. Mostly, they seem supportive of her on this with lots of praise for her "daring" to lead. https://twitter.com/search?q=brene brown spotify&src=typeahead_click
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I don’t know who that is or know much about Rogan but have at least heard of him, between the 2 who would you say has a larger and more loyal audience? I support Brown doing whatever they want as long as they can live with whatever the consequences are. 

 
IvanKaramazov said:
For any issue X, there are people out there who will construct arguments that people who disagree with them on X are somehow killing people.  X could be vaccines, it could be US foreign policy, it could be traffic enforcement, it could be IP law.  It doesn't matter.  If you allow this argument here, you are handing people a blank check for censorship.

Do you want Donald Trump deciding who gets banned for spreading misinformation?
Click to expand...
I’m not too concerned about censoring quacks, particularly if it’s done by a company like Spotify on its own platform. Obviously there can be a slippery slope though. I think that’s something we have to navigate carefully. 
 

I certainly do not want a POTUS to unilaterally decide what is misinformation and ban it.

 
IvanKaramazov said:
When you propose a particular moderation standard, you should stop and ask yourself if you would like to be governed by that moderation standard when it is applied by your worst enemies.  My guess is that for most people who think that Joe Rogan should be removed from Spotify, Donald Trump is probably something close to the Platonic form of their worst enemy.
Click to expand...
I guess I'm not understanding your point here.  You seem to be arguing that people shouldn't want Donald Trump to have the ability to censor anything, but it's not clear whether you mean "Donald Trump in a private capacity (perhaps his planned Truth platform)" or "Donald Trump in a potential future public capacity".  It seems the answer is quite simple on both fronts, though, (private = yes, public = no) so I'm unclear what you're arguing.  Or are you simply saying that private entities should have the legal right but should refrain from doing so?

 
Rich Conway said:
Donald Trump should be able to censor whoever he chooses on his privately owned platform.  Ditto Spotify.  You know this, of course.
Click to expand...
Of course - but they are not really offended unless some heavy hitters threaten to leave.  They are more offended by bad PR and a loss of income than Joe Rogan.  

 
Joe Bryant said:
I do wonder how folks feel about this if you support the artist that is removing the content.

Brene Brown has an incredibly loyal and supportive audience. She has tons of goodwill built up there with them. Mostly, they seem supportive of her on this with lots of praise for her "daring" to lead. https://twitter.com/search?q=brene brown spotify&src=typeahead_click
Click to expand...


honestly I have no idea who she is. So no loss for me. 

I did hear that Foo Fighters are considering leaving too. While that would be huge loss and I do listen to their music on Spotify, but I prefer to support free speech over popularity boycotts anyday. So, later Foo. 

 
GoBirds said:
I don’t know who that is or know much about Rogan but have at least heard of him, between the 2 who would you say has a larger and more loyal audience? I support Brown doing whatever they want as long as they can live with whatever the consequences are. 
Click to expand...


Rogan has a way bigger audience and makes Spotify way more money than Brown. But she's still a big deal. 

Joni Mitchell is a rounding error to Spotify. Brene Brown's audience is big enough to matter to Spotify. Not saying they'll choose Brown. But she's big enough that this has more of their attention.

And to be super clear, she hasn't said specifically this is what she's doing. Which seems super weird. She's only said she won't be releasing more content. https://twitter.com/BreneBrown/status/1487535996782710786?s=20&t=YXr-MiCzZu7ohVOi1l7Ffw

Everyone assumes it's over Joe Rogan but she hasn't said that. She's super smart and I'm sure she expected everyone to connect it to Joe Rogan so my guess is that's what it is. But also seems lame to be coy about it. 

 
At least he’s consistent as Neil Young has always been demanding the removal of artists with songs promoting misogyny, drug use and violence.

Oh wait…

 
Rich Conway said:
I guess I'm not understanding your point here.  You seem to be arguing that people shouldn't want Donald Trump to have the ability to censor anything, but it's not clear whether you mean "Donald Trump in a private capacity (perhaps his planned Truth platform)" or "Donald Trump in a potential future public capacity".  It seems the answer is quite simple on both fronts, though, (private = yes, public = no) so I'm unclear what you're arguing.  Or are you simply saying that private entities should have the legal right but should refrain from doing so?
Click to expand...
Suppose we establish a rule that says "If X is deemed to be misinformation, then media companies should deplatform X."

Would you be comfortable with Donald Trump being appointed the moderator of that rule?

If you're getting hung up on "Donald Trump," try plugging in somebody who you personally despise and disrespect.  Would you want Ted Nugent to be your moderator?

 
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IvanKaramazov said:
Suppose we establish a rule that says "If X is deemed to be misinformation, then media companies should deplatform X."

Would you be comfortable with Donald Trump being appointed the moderator of that rule?
Click to expand...
I don't understand where you're going with this.  Who is "we"?  Is this a publicly enforced "rule"?  Obviously, the answer is no, government shouldn't be telling private platforms who/what they can host.  Again, I don't think anyone is here arguing for that.

 
Before we get too up in arms about this, let's just understand that there's no way Spotify boots Joe Rogan.

And very few people would think they should. It's early, but even in this communist liberal echo chamber there's still no one that's voted that they should boot him. Some will for sure, but it'll almost certainly be less than 5%. Again, among all these crazy libs.

As an aside, I'm an old fuddy duddy that still doesn't understand why people pay a subscription to listen to podcasts. I've heard very little of Joe Rogan because I can't bring myself to pay for freaking podcasts. 

 
Spotify isn't losing money yet over Joe Rogan. If it was beneficial to Spotify to remove content, shouldn't they be able to do it?

We always have the right to cancel Spotify.

 
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