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Saquon Barkley - 08.09.21 - activated from the reserve/PUP list - Do you trust him? (1 Viewer)

Dr. Octopus

Dr. Octopus

Footballguy
Giants activated RB Saquon Barkley (ACL) from the reserve/PUP list.

"Before you get hit in the first game at full speed when the speed does elevate," Judge continued on Barkley's recovery, "we want to go out and get you used to the tempo of the game, the speed of the game, get you the feel of being tackled." Judge added that Barkley will mostly do individual drills (as he was spotted doing during Monday's practice) and teaching period stuff to build him up — basically nothing that would put him at risk at this point in his rehab. Judge also didn’t discount the possibility of Barkley getting into a preseason game, but that would likely entail one series, if any. It's still possible his September workload is limited even if he's active for Week 1.
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As he tumbles down draft-boards - sometimes last until round 2 is he a bargain or a recipe for disappointment?

 
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Great thread title! 😉 I was offered him and some other things for Dobbins and some other things. Chose to avoid Barkley even though I could have paired him with CMC.

I just don't see him being ready to return to his old form just yet.

 
My league has two guys that were out of the league but wanted back in this year so we expanded to 14 teams and I ended up with pick 14. I did a mock yesterday where I landed Zeke and Barkley at the 1/2 turn. Now I draft in NJ so I do not expect to see Barkley fall that far but I'm not 100% sure I would want him to anyway.

On top of the possibility of being eased back in, an already terrible Giants o-line has actually got worse as camp progresses and guys retire out of the blue. The only thing that may save his value is catching 90 balls from Danny Jones trying just to get rid of the ball before he gets creamed.

 
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Thank you @Dr. Octopus  This is exactly the kind of more descriptive thread I think is more interesting. And way more importantly, more helpful to people.

My take is I'm getting less optimistic on Barkley. That's not to say I don't like him. But I think I increasingly find myself liking him less than the other people in my draft which means I won't get him.

I thought @Sigmund Bloom's "All Rolaids" Team article was good yesterday. One player he included was Barkley.

https://www.footballguys.com/article/2021-all-rolaids-relieved-someone-else-took-them-team

Saquon Barkley, RB, Kenny Golladay, WR, NYG - The Giants offense will go as far as Daniel Jones will take them. Let that sink in. Jason Garrett hasn’t given us any confidence in his ability to elevate the play of this offense. The offensive line isn’t going to do Jones any favors. Where does that leave Barkley, who is on two injury-marred seasons in a row, and Golladay, who is struggling to establish chemistry with Jones and will now miss two weeks? The Giants offense feels like a sinking ship. Barkley isn’t an automatic first-round pick, and he isn’t even an automatic early second-round pick with the expectation that he might not return until Week 3. I’m not sure how far Golladay would have to fall for me to take him.
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Dr. Octopus said:
As he tumbles down draft-boards - sometimes last until round 2 is he a bargain or a recipe for disappointment?
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I see this kind of question phrased this way a lot. And not that it isn't a good question but the idea that somehow it matters that he is sliding to the 2nd instead of the 1st bothers me. If he ends up being a disappointment or gets reinjured or something, that loss will be just as devastating for your team if you take him in the 2nd or the 1st. If he hits you will gain extra value, though, and indeed maybe you can insulate yourself (a little bit) from the potential loss by taking him in the 2nd as opposed to the 1st. But ultimately anyone taken this high is someone you're counting on to be a hit (which can mean just returning at-cost value).

But I am fading because I don't trust him or the Giants. He tore more than his ACL in that injury and I mean if anyone can come back strong he can. But I was terrified for his prospects before his injury because I thought he ran like he thought he was Superman out there. And he found out. I know most injuries are simply fluky but IMO his was because he refused to go down. Like usual. I had thought since he was a rookie that he was going to get himself killed out there. I have no idea what version of his former self he will be physically, or in terms of his style. It's a shame because he is/was obviously so darned good and fun to watch. So I think it's fair to say I have a sort of jaded read of him, plus I think Jones is garbage.

There are too many other options for me, even in the 2nd.

 
barackdhouse said:
I see this kind of question phrased this way a lot. And not that it isn't a good question but the idea that somehow it matters that he is sliding to the 2nd instead of the 1st bothers me. If he ends up being a disappointment or gets reinjured or something, that loss will be just as devastating for your team if you take him in the 2nd or the 1st. If he hits you will gain extra value, though, and indeed maybe you can insulate yourself (a little bit) from the potential loss by taking him in the 2nd as opposed to the 1st. But ultimately anyone taken this high is someone you're counting on to be a hit (which can mean just returning at-cost value).
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Ummm...that's exactly the point of the question you quoted - he could be a steal at that price  but it could be he's falling for good reason. Did you only read the first half of the question?

 
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Dr. Octopus said:
Ummm...that's exactly the point of the question you quoted - he could be a steal at that price  but it could be he's falling for good reason. Did you only read the first half of the question?
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I read it all. Sorry I don't understand your confusion. I didn't mean to direct my response to you if it came across that way. Maybe I've had too much caffeine. It is a good question and I think what I meant was that for me there are guys I simply will not draft regardless of how far they fall. That is maybe the one sentence version of what I was trying to get across.

For me it doesn't matter that he is falling I won't be taking him.

 
I wonder if there is too much group think going on with Barkley.  he went from RB5 in May to RB8-10 today depending on who you ask.  Waldman swayed me with his article about compensatory injuries, but have we reached the point where Barkley is becoming "too radioactive" and is now in opportunity territory?  I'd take Barkley over Taylor as an example....

bonus question: will he creep back up to RB6 by the time the season starts?

 
I think the biggest issue with Barkely that may get overlooked is just what a disaster this o-line could be.

This was a post @monk made in the Giants Team topic so I want to give him credit:

This is shaping up to be one of the worst Olines in history ... and that is not an overreaction 

Hernandez - has not looked good at RG adnd has been declining since his rookie season 

Lemiuex - Has never looked good and is injured and missing valuable time 

Soldier - supposedly looks lile he has lost some body mass and doesnt look like an NFL tackle

Harrison - Back Center has had at least a couple of bad snaps 

Peart - has had back issues 

The second teamOline, what is left of it,  has been unplayable according to those articles. Add the only veteran backup has been benched on occasion for false starts  

What a shame it will be to have to start over because of the absoulte neglect of the worst Oline in Football. What should be one of the best offenses in the NFL, could very likely be one of the worst

Gettleman should be charged with GM malpractice
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I trust him completely as my 2nd RB at the top of the 2nd round.  That's the kind of pairing that can make your team godlike later in the season.

I wouldn't go WR/Barkley, because the number of picks until you choose in the 3rd means you're squarely in the RB dead zone and I don't think it's a good strategy to go Hero RB with Barkley given what we've seen so far.

Even if he misses a few games at the outset, it's likely that he leads the team in targets and receptions.  That puts him at RB4-5 overall for me in full PPR.

 
tangfoot said:
I trust him completely as my 2nd RB at the top of the 2nd round.  That's the kind of pairing that can make your team godlike later in the season.

I wouldn't go WR/Barkley, because the number of picks until you choose in the 3rd means you're squarely in the RB dead zone and I don't think it's a good strategy to go Hero RB with Barkley given what we've seen so far.

Even if he misses a few games at the outset, it's likely that he leads the team in targets and receptions.  That puts him at RB4-5 overall for me in full PPR.
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But if he causes you to lose a game or two or more at the beginning of the season, you have to thread the needle later on to qualify for the playoffs.

 
Andy Dufresne said:
But if he causes you to lose a game or two or more at the beginning of the season, you have to thread the needle later on to qualify for the playoffs.
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Half the teams in your league will be 0-1.  And if you're taking Saquan at that spot, the proper play is to mitigate that early season risk with players who have ++ matchups to begin the season and/or have no known injury concerns at the time of your draft.

 
Dr. Octopus said:
I think the biggest issue with Barkely that may get overlooked is just what a disaster this o-line could be.

This was a post @monk made in the Giants Team topic so I want to give him credit:
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I know Thomas was disappointing as a rookie, but is he that far out of favor he's not even starting on a bad line?

Eta- I think I misunderstood what you quoted. He wasn't listing the starters, he was listing the guys with really bad news.

 
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Andy Dufresne said:
But if he causes you to lose a game or two or more at the beginning of the season, you have to thread the needle later on to qualify for the playoffs.
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The issue right now is also the fact that there's still a battle going on to see who his "handcuff" will be. Devonte Booker was expected to be the guy but the latest news is that Cory Clement is having the better camp and could pass Booker. If I did draft Barkely I would want to handcuff him.

 
tangfoot said:
Half the teams in your league will be 0-1.  And if you're taking Saquan at that spot, the proper play is to mitigate that early season risk with players who have ++ matchups to begin the season and/or have no known injury concerns at the time of your draft.
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Well sure - if you can do that. But there again you're increasing the level of difficulty by taking a risky player like Saquon early. 

If everything breaks right, your strategy works. But there's a lot that has to go right - not the least of which Barkley returning to form just one year after the injury.

I know we expect that modern medicine and superior athleticism can just stitch these guys back together again. But I don't think that works as often as is perceived. 

 
Dr. Octopus said:
The issue right now is also the fact that there's still a battle going on to see who his "handcuff" will be. Devonte Booker was expected to be the guy but the latest news is that Cory Clement is having the better camp and could pass Booker. If I did draft Barkely I would want to handcuff him.
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Why? There's only about 3-5 other players in the entire league with his level of talent.  I don't want any RB in that backfield other than Barkley, they likely won't be able to produce at all.  I would rather pick up another team's backup on the chance that I end up with multiple starters.

 
Dr. Octopus said:
As he tumbles down draft-boards - sometimes last until round 2 is he a bargain or a recipe for disappointment?
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Mocked at 1.01 last night and got him 2.12

If he’s practicing in full by the time I draft I very much doubt that happens, but if the Giants are still being coy about his usage & it does happen, I would happily go CMC ~> Barkley.

Even if he is eased along (which I don’t completely believe)  the risk is baked in to the price. By mid-season you could potentially have the talent of 2x 1.01 picks. 

yes please. 

 
tangfoot said:
Why? There's only about 3-5 other players in the entire league with his level of talent.  I don't want any RB in that backfield other than Barkley, they likely won't be able to produce at all.  I would rather pick up another team's backup on the chance that I end up with multiple starters.
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Well put. You’re not going to draft a replacement level player by handcuffing him. 

Better to simply invest in a competent RB3 a little earlier than normal to bridge the gap. And since I play in a 1-flex league it never hurts to have 3 good RB anyway. 

 
Joe Bryant said:
Thanks. Where does that put him for you among all the RBs in PPR format?
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based on his receiving & Jones’ proven willingness to dump off to him, he’d be a potential top 5 PPR asset in redraft. 

ETA: overall, not just RB. 

If he proves to be 100% within a couple of games. 

High risk, high reward for sure. 

 
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I do. He seems to have been indicating that he’s ready. He’s been practicing on the sidelines all of camp. I think this is a case of the Giants just being extra cautious.

 
Joe Bryant said:
Thanks. Sorry i missed that.  How many RBs would you expect to go in the first round of your draft?
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I expect the number of RBs to fall pretty close to what ADP says, even if the order is different.  I haven't looked at ADP lately, so I can't tell you if that's 6 or 11 or what.

 
tangfoot said:
Why? There's only about 3-5 other players in the entire league with his level of talent.  I don't want any RB in that backfield other than Barkley, they likely won't be able to produce at all.  I would rather pick up another team's backup on the chance that I end up with multiple starters.
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Wayne Gallman was very effective filling in for Barkley down the stretch and helped me in one of my dynasty leagues.

 
Dr. Octopus said:
Wayne Gallman was very effective filling in for Barkley down the stretch and helped me in one of my dynasty leagues.
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Wayne Gallman is no longer a member of the NY Giants, I'm not sure any of the backup RBs on their roster are even as talented as he is.

 
tangfoot said:
Wayne Gallman is no longer a member of the NY Giants, I'm not sure any of the backup RBs on their roster are even as talented as he is.
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Gallman isn’t some great talent. I don’t think he’s any better than Devante Booker, really. I’m not saying I would overpay to cuff Barkley, just that I’d feel better if I could. I do get that my drafted RB3 would be a better option early in the season though so it’s not imperative to get a handcuff here - just something to consider.

 
I will never draft him again.... back 2 back el Busto ... reminds me of Glass Joe from Mike Tysons punch out....He ruined so many teams for me and obviously the year I'm over him ....He'll go off for like 2k yards ... These Fantasy Gods bro

 
tangfoot said:
I expect the number of RBs to fall pretty close to what ADP says, even if the order is different.  I haven't looked at ADP lately, so I can't tell you if that's 6 or 11 or what.
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Thanks. It all varies by league of course but I'm not seeing many RB7 get past the first round. Which makes it interesting. 

 
Interesting - I have been using Draft Dominator to mock my draft at 1.08.  He is ranked RB6 in there, but he falls to me at 2.04 every time.

 
jtd13 said:
In PPR, I will take him at RB4 behind CMC, Kamara, and Cook. I'm only a little worried about the injury, but without injury I'd take him RB2.
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That's where I'm at. I like him over Zeke, Chubb and Jones. Yea the Giants are a dumpster fire but they were that way during his monster seasons too. Only concern is injury (which is a big one) but the potential is still there. 

Btw I'm taking him at 1.04. it's a keeper league though where CMC, Henry and Cook are all gone. I expect Kamara, Zeke, CMC (keeper spot) to go before that. 

 
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Its a HUGE year for him. If he gets banged up and misses time again he's permanently scarred in our FF world. A mid round pick next year at best IMO. But I think he's going to beast this year. He looks great from what little video and photos we've seen. Calling him jacked is an understatement. 

 
He scares me for 2021.  Mostly because that team is so bad and that OL is worse and that is not even talking about the injury.  I have him in two leagues and would consider trading him if I can get great value.

 
he'll be ready. you have to take him if it's the 2nd round, where else will you find a 3 down back like him that late in the draft. they're going to ride the lightning, give it to your best player, over and over, because the entire infrastructure is going to be torn down if ( when ) they have another disastrous season. bye gettleman. bye coaching staff.bye half of the front office. they'll wipe it clean. they way to avoid this is to lean on your superstar till he breaks.  he's getting ~300 carries come hell or high water. 

 
OL has always been trash

QB has always been trash

when healthy he is a stud

GM and coach (& QB) could all get whacked if they don't compete for division this year

Giants play Thursday night week 2 ......  I expect lesser workload first 2 weeks, then bellcow week 3 on

 
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