Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.
if I have)
I am curious about the idea that Lawrence has the higher upside. Herbert just completed the all time best rookie QB year of all time. That is all you could hope that Lawerence does and it is likely not going to happen.
100 percent this.
This plus he is in a much better situation. Chargers line is dramatically improved.Just Win Baby said:
Isn't the upside what Herbert has already done in the NFL? He set rookie records for TD's and was first or second in yards and completions. There isn't much upside above that that I can see.
Rookie records are going to continue to get broken as the league becomes more and more pass heavy. When you're constantly losing games and on a very bad team, you're going to throw the ball a lot and rack up stats.
With all due respect to Anthony Lynn, before the Chargers, he coordinated the Bills with Tyrod Taylor, which was an extremely run heavy offense.
A better question is if we redrafted all players today and both Burrow and Herbert were available knowing what we have seen so far, which of them would teams other than the Bengals and Chargers (who are obviously invested in their previous choices) draft? IMO it would overwhelmingly skew toward Herbert.
First, I would point out that he had that record season in 15 games, since he did not play in week 1.
Lawrence was much higher regarded coming out of school. A once in a generation type player. So I believe his ceiling is much higher down the road. I think the odds of TL making the HOF are higher than Herbert's. You don't. That's fine.
Many of the records he broke were set several years ago, some of them have never been accomplished before.
See above. TL may end up being better, but no reason to sell Herbert short. Easily the best rookie QB season in NFL history, in the conversation for best rookie season for any player ever. All despite terrible coaching, an even worse O-line, and the most screwed up off-season/least preparation ever. He very likely won't reach it, but his ceiling is the GOAT.
I never understood this jabbing at another team. I never said the Eagles were good. The Chargers were better than the Eagles. Just because I cheer for a bad team, it does not mean I cannot comment that another team is also bad. As for the 7-9 record, 1 of those wins he didn't even play. Another was against the Chiefs B team as the rested everyone. So yes, The Chargers under Herbert went 5-9, and 4 of those wins were against teams that won 5 or less games. Herbert didn't beat one above average team last year.
You didn't call them bad, you called them "very bad". They weren't a very bad team.I never understood this jabbing at another team. I never said the Eagles were good. The Chargers were better than the Eagles. Just because I cheer for a bad team, it does not mean I cannot comment that another team is also bad. As for the 7-9 record, 1 of those wins he didn't even play. Another was against the Chiefs B team as the rested everyone. So yes, The Chargers under Herbert went 5-9, and 4 of those wins were against teams that won 5 or less games. Herbert didn't beat one above average team last year.
I never said Herbert's rookie season was bad. In fact, I think it was very good. I never said anything contrary to that. To say he had the best rookie season of any player ever is extreme exaggeration. I voted "barely TL"... it's not like I think Herbert wasn't fantastic last year. But I do think his stats were slightly inflated by being on a bad team with no running game, who was almost always behind in games.
LOL @ "His ceiling is the GOAT"
Ok well I think a team that had 0 wins against wInning teams isn't good. I'm sorry the " very" word upset you so much. Maybe I shoulda just said "sorta bad" ?
There's a lot of room on the spectrum between very bad and very good. Yes, calling them "very bad" seems way over the top, I think even bad is a bit harsh but wouldn't quibble- personally I'd say they were a mediocre team, held back by a terrible coach.
Personally I think a team that has 6 wins (4 of them against bottom 8 teams, 1 against a practice squad, and 1 against an average raiders team) is bad. But hey, we can disagree on that.
You are though.
So still not acknowledging that he was beating 3 of the very best teams in the NFL for almost the entire games? Just want to focus on Jax do you?
No, I'm not. Again, this is about last season, which was historically great. Next year may not be better due to injuries, new coach/system, or any number of factors. I do expect him to improve, but nothing is guaranteed. That doesn't change how good last year was.
"beating" lol. But still didn't win.
Please name some QBs who had "amazing" first years and then dropped off. Then look at the reasons for the dropoff and find any example that reasonably correlates to Herbert's situation.
Wentz, RG3, Winston, Mariota, Baker, etc. I'm not expecting a huge drop-off from Herbert though. I think he is the real deal and will be a solid starter the rest of his career. I just don't see him greatly improving on last year's numbers or making the HOF.
We may have different definitions of amazing:
I believe you are the only person in this thread who has addressed Herbert making the HOF. It's a strawman you seem to have created to argue against. So you can drop that from the rest of the discussion.
humpback talked about him possibly becoming the GOAT and having a better career than Brady. HOF sounds weak compared to that.
Nah, I was just brainstorming names. And I never ever said he would drop off... i said he COULD. Talk about Straw man arguments
Yes, beating. As in, they were winning the vast majority of all of those games against great teams, which completely disproves your false notion that "they were always losing", which inflated his stats. Just like the incorrect argument that they had no running game. I'm honestly not sure you've watched a single game of his, and it doesn't appear as you've looked at the data/box scores either because your "arguments" are very clearly incorrect.
No, humpback said that his CEILING is GOAT, which is entirely logical considering his rookie season was arguably the GOAT. I also clearly said more than once that he very likely won't reach that ceiling.
I didn't say you said he would drop off in the post you quoted. You are slipping here. I have to give you credit for a nice trolling job in this thread, though. Kudos!And I never ever said he would drop off... i said he COULD. Talk about Straw man arguments
I'm trolling because I said that Herbert is a great play, had a great season, and would continue to be a great qb for your team?
Didn't you say you were going to stop replying? And did you just refer to yourself in the 3rd person?
