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All-NBA Best In Show Cup - Semi-Finals (Scoobus vs Gally, Modogg vs Higgins) (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Yo Mama
- Start date
I really wish we could actually see it happen. It would be a tremendous series and I honestly don't know who would win. I think on name recognition you get the nod but you have a zero on offense in Bowen and I don't have anybody like that. I could sluff of Bowen to help with Allen and chip in on Shaq to frustrate him. You have to guard all 5 of mine as you can't sluff off Terry or Peja and I think Peja would be a real factor.The match-up Gally has been waiting for.
You may have the perceived best 3 pt shooter in Allen, but if you look closely Peja was just as good as they are both 40% (actually Peja is 40.1 to Allen's 40.0) shooters. And Terry vs Bowen really isn't much of a contest as Terry is good from everywhere where Bowen has to just sit in the corner.
Kidd vs Parker is an interesting matchup as well. Obviously Kidd is the better defender but Parker is better offensively as a scorer. Here is where I really wish I had put Paul in my 2000's squad instead of 2010's. I don't think there is as big of difference between Kidd & Parker as the perceived name value as I think Parker fits great with my team's construction as shown by his 4 titles won with Duncan. This is where I think the sum of the parts is better than the individual comparison.
The battle between Shaq/Garnett vs Duncan/Howard would be incredible. I would call that a push and foul trouble would really be the deciding factor for sure.
I think the bigs are basically even, you get a slight PG advantage and I have a slight advantage at SG/SF combination. I think I have the slightly better combined team but I can see the argument going the other way. I think this is a true coin flip of a matchup and should have been the championship game.
higgins
Footballguy
I have no doubt that Modogg's team will beat mine purely on the basis of recency bias and the amazing back-court; but, I question how, specifically, his team could actually win. First-things-first....my squad (here are the front-court's career rankings).
C Artis Gilmore
PF Elvin Hayes
SF Dr J
SG Gus Williams
PG John Lucas
Questions:
(1) How will Modogg's team score more than higgins' squad? We all know MJ will get his (plus some) and that Stockton will have to up his scoring but his team simply doesn't have the offensive fire power to put up enough points to contend with my big-3, who rank as the #8, #12, and #27 career scoring leaders. I understand that some people may prefer to ignore career stats and go solely by their peaks BUT even IF we were to take each player's peak scoring season the result would be higgins 123.5 -to- Modogg 114.4. The ABA has the rep (deserved or not) of having less defense than the NBA. But even IF we were to take the top scoring NBA seasons for Dr J and Artis (only players that played in the ABA), the tally would still be higgins 120.2 -to- 114.4....which leads me to my next question.
(2) Even IF Stockton has his best scoring day(s) in this series/game, how is his front-court going to score more than a minimum? Did you see the defensive rankings for my front-court? Majerle, LJ and DC weren't ever the alpha dogs on their own teams? How are they going to score against all-time defensive alpha dogs?....which leads me to my next question.
(3) How is Modogg's team going to get more than a minimum of rebounds? Again, please take a look at the rebound rankings from the link above....now answer the question.
My guess is that the only answer Modogg would be able to come up with is that IF Stockton has the offensive series/game of his life and IF we ignore the offensive peaks of the ABA years and IF we were playing in modern, spread offense-terms (which benefits his team), that his team could very well win.
Again, I fully expect Modogg's squad to win this voting -- my only question is whether they deserve to.
C Artis Gilmore
PF Elvin Hayes
SF Dr J
SG Gus Williams
PG John Lucas
Questions:
(1) How will Modogg's team score more than higgins' squad? We all know MJ will get his (plus some) and that Stockton will have to up his scoring but his team simply doesn't have the offensive fire power to put up enough points to contend with my big-3, who rank as the #8, #12, and #27 career scoring leaders. I understand that some people may prefer to ignore career stats and go solely by their peaks BUT even IF we were to take each player's peak scoring season the result would be higgins 123.5 -to- Modogg 114.4. The ABA has the rep (deserved or not) of having less defense than the NBA. But even IF we were to take the top scoring NBA seasons for Dr J and Artis (only players that played in the ABA), the tally would still be higgins 120.2 -to- 114.4....which leads me to my next question.
(2) Even IF Stockton has his best scoring day(s) in this series/game, how is his front-court going to score more than a minimum? Did you see the defensive rankings for my front-court? Majerle, LJ and DC weren't ever the alpha dogs on their own teams? How are they going to score against all-time defensive alpha dogs?....which leads me to my next question.
(3) How is Modogg's team going to get more than a minimum of rebounds? Again, please take a look at the rebound rankings from the link above....now answer the question.
My guess is that the only answer Modogg would be able to come up with is that IF Stockton has the offensive series/game of his life and IF we ignore the offensive peaks of the ABA years and IF we were playing in modern, spread offense-terms (which benefits his team), that his team could very well win.
Again, I fully expect Modogg's squad to win this voting -- my only question is whether they deserve to.
Last edited by a moderator:
scoobus
Footballguy
Obviously I’m going to disagree, although I do love your team design and think you’re a worthy team to go against here. Whereas my first 2 matchups I had the advantage in the front court, in this matchup it would be my backcourt that would get us through. I see Duncan and KG as essentially cancelling each other out. Shaq has notoriously hated Dwight throughout his career, and would definitely be out to take it to him. Kidd and Parker are closer, with Kidd having the big passing and defensive advantage and Parker a better scorer. Allen is like Terry, but better everywhere. With Kidd, Allen, and Bowen, you’ve got 2 plus defenders and one defender in Allen who is probably better than any of the other 3 on Gally.
Your defensive plan is to sluff off Bowen, but that’s the thing, you really can’t sluff off Bowen or he’s drilling corner 3s in your face at a high clip. Bowen and Allen both have no trouble neutralizing their matchups, and Kidd makes life way harder on Parker than the other way around. With Dwight not much of an offensive threat and Shaq motivated to kick his ###, you’re putting a lot of weight on Duncan to go at KG, and I’ll take my chances there. Offensively, Shaq won’t be quite his dominant self with Howard on him, but should still get his to a degree. Duncan and KG cancel each other out. Bowen waits patiently in the corner, where he drills 3s when left alone. And in the match-with probably the biggest advantage, Ray Allen takes it to Jason Terry. Kidd is also not slowed down very much by Parker.
You have Peja/Terry as a slight advantage over Allen/Bowen, and I definitely disagree with that. I think my 1/2/3 are all vastly superior defensively, without losing much if any on the offensive end. Combine that with Shaq motivated to punk Dwight, and KG and Duncan playing to a draw, and I think you see us come out on top.
Well the pole is certainly leaning to your favor but I think it way skewed and a lot closer than the showing. You have a lot more confidence in Bowen offensively than I do and even though your backcourt is better defensively I don't think it is enough to skew it greatly.
As far as Bowen goes, he can make some shots but he can also miss all of them. I woudn't have confidence in him and I think Peja's size will cause his issues with that shot as he doesn't have to do much else other than put pressure on him. I don't see him being completely left alone (which is the only way he really makes shots). Offensively I don't think you have a guy that would give Peja problems with his shot. With how good Bowen is I think Peja's size will give him trouble and allow Peja to get his shots. To me Peja is the X factor and is the key for Team Gally in this matchup.
I give the advantage to Duncan over KG (but not by much). Again it probably is about the difference between Shaq over Howard. So that duo vs duo is as close of a wash as any other squads could do. It is why I believe the winner of this matchup should win the Championship. No other team left can really compete with that offensive/defensive combo in the front court.
modogg
Footballguy
2) there is a lot of anti-Sixers hate that is melting into these threads, so my squad is certainly not a shoe-in. Lot of thought with the match-up, but i would love to focus on point 2 for a minute. i mentioned in the other thread the idea of pick and roll with LJ/DC and Stockton would elevate both of their overall career numbers, and i do think that should be considered.I have no doubt that Modogg's team will beat mine purely on the basis of recency bias and the amazing back-court; but, I question how, specifically, his team could actually win. First-things-first....my squad (here are the front-court's career rankings).
C Artis Gilmore
PF Elvin Hayes
SF Dr J
SG Gus Williams
PG John Lucas
Questions:
(1) How will Modogg's team score more than higgins' squad? We all know MJ will get his (plus some) and that Stockton will have to up his scoring but his team simply doesn't have the offensive fire power to put up enough points to contend with my big-3, who rank as the #8, #12, and #27 career scoring leaders. I understand that some people may prefer to ignore career stats and go solely by their peaks BUT even IF we were to take each player's peak scoring season the result would be higgins 123.5 -to- Modogg 114.4. The ABA has the rep (deserved or not) of having less defense than the NBA. But even IF we were to take the top scoring NBA seasons for Dr J and Artis (only players that played in the ABA), the tally would still be higgins 120.2 -to- 114.4....which leads me to my next question.
(2) Even IF Stockton has his best scoring day(s) in this series/game, how is his front-court going to score more than a minimum? Did you see the defensive rankings for my front-court? Majerle, LJ and DC weren't ever the alpha dogs on their own teams? How are they going to score against all-time defensive alpha dogs?....which leads me to my next question.
(3) How is Modogg's team going to get more than a minimum of rebounds? Again, please take a look at the rebound rankings from the link above....now answer the question.
My guess is that the only answer Modogg would be able to come up with is that IF Stockton has the offensive series/game of his life and IF we ignore the offensive peaks of the ABA years and IF we were playing in modern, spread offense-terms (which benefits his team), that his team could very well win.
Again, I fully expect Modogg's squad to win this voting -- my only question is whether they deserve to.
I also think it is important to point out how excellent these stats were when they were not deemed the alpha dogs (can include Stockton as well if you like). i think that is the key to why this team would succeed. they play great as a team, and not 5 individual players trying to fit together.
3) I don't think many will look into this aspect of it, but i think LJ would have had a ton more rebounds if he wasn't paired with Mourning, and didn't suffer a devastating back injury. i also think a consideration should be made that my MJ and Majerle rebounded well too, when needed. Obviously MJ played with Grant and Rodman so rebounds weren't what he should focus on, but when needed he was good at it
scoobus
Footballguy
Curious as to why you give the advtantage to the Gally side, you just have Duncan considerably over KG? I do admit I’m higher on KG than most.
modogg
Footballguy
that is the biggest reason yes. i just think Duncan was able to work so well with Robinson, and his numbers would have been even higher if he was more of the central figure for that team.
and glad you posted the above about Bowen. i was not very high on him at all, that does add some thought ideas.
I'll be busy for a few hours but will respond to your thoughts in this thread.All I saw is that it said (Peja) "easily outclassed his much hyped fellow bomber Ray Allen". Nothing else was really relevant in that random article. The stuff about Bowen is meaningless because Peja didn't have the Duncan, Howard, Terry, and Parker working to get him the ball in spots he likes through screens etc. as well as being at the end of Peja's career and not anywhere near his prime. But nice try.
Frostillicus
Footballguy
Frostillicus
Footballguy
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