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***Official Snopes Thread***Liar, Liar Pants on Fire (1 Viewer)

Timesleader-Justice Wasn’t Served

BOSTON — The crash ended a young woman’s life, and with it, a man’s White House dreams.

U.S. Sen. Edward M. Kennedy’s Oldsmobile sedan veered off a narrow bridge on Chappaquiddick Island, an extension of the resort island of Martha’s Vineyard off the Massachusetts coast, and plunged into a moonlit pond 50 years ago Thursday. His passenger, 28-year-old Mary Jo Kopechne, drowned.

Kennedy, 37, survived, but his presidential ambitions did not. The Massachusetts Democrat waited 10 hours to report the accident to police, and the “whys?” dogged him for the rest of his days.

Half a century later, what did and didn’t happen on Chappaquiddick Island on July 18, 1969, continues to fascinate and frustrate.

 
Thanks for posting this.

The recent movie was very well-done.

Just checked:  It's available on Netflix.

 
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An Esquire article from ‘72

Chappaquiddick After the Bridge

"Such a tide as moving seems asleep, too full for sound and foam"

Ron Rosenbaum

BettmannGetty Images

This article was originally published in the February 1972 issue of Esquire magazine. To read more from the Esquire archive, visit Esquire Classic. 

The fastest selling book in Edgartown this summer, two summers after Mary Jo Kopechne’s death, is a work called Teddy Bare. The gift-shop book nooks don’t carry Teddy Bare (subtitled The Last of the Kennedy Clan); in fact the only place in town that will sell it is John Farrar’s Turf & Tackle Shop on Main Street, where, to the right of the cash register in the middle of the store, two sections have been set aside to display copies of Teddy Bare. The cover is a harsh two-color job, wide bands of black and yellow. On it is a photograph of Teddy Kennedy in a self-absorbed mood. Teddy Kennedy’s face is yellow.

A customer in the shop, wearing the tomato-red slacks of the Edgartown Yacht Club set and inspecting surf-casting reels, tells me that “Zad Rust,” the author of Teddy Bare, is really a pseudonym for a former prince and foreign minister of Roumania. “I understand he has some connection with the Birch Society,” the customer adds, “but when you leave out the hysterical part he makes a pretty good case against Teddy, if you ask me. Lots of people around here have read it, although you’ll see they’ll take that cover off before they’ll carry it around in public.”

 
My limerick, from back in the day:

Ted once struck a cop with a stick;

The cop's sudden blows back made Ted sick.

Ted said with dismay, as he stumbled away, 

'Must remember, that chap's a quick ****.'

 
HellToupee said:
There was a time in America where wealth & fame could help you get away with almost anything
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That was still true according to some people as recently as 2005:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump_Access_Hollywood_tape

I better use some Tic Tacs just in case I start kissing her. You know I'm automatically attracted to beautiful—I just start kissing them. It's like a magnet. Just kiss. I don't even wait. And when you're a star, they let you do it. You can do anything. Grab 'em by the #####. You can do anything.[3]
Click to expand...

 
HellToupee said:
Please stick to the topic and refrain from further trolling. Joe doesn’t seem like he has a lot of patience today, just saying
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I was on topic as I was responding directly to the assertion quoted below that there was, once a time where this concept and attitude existed and I pointed out that the current POTUS, no less, felt so as recently as 2005.
 

26 minutes ago, HellToupee said:

There was a time in America where wealth & fame could help you get away with almost anything
Click to expand...

 
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squistion said:
I was on topic as I was responding directly to the assertion quoted below that there was a once a time where this existed and I pointed out that the current POTUS, no less, felt so as recently as 2005.
 
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In the spirit of collegiality please knock it off 

 
Sinn Fein said:
Yesterday?
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Exactly and certainly not just some antiquated notion of over 50 years ago that the OP suggests. For more recent examples of celebrities or the wealthy feeling they are above the law or can get away with just about anything, see: Jeffrey Epstein, Bill Cosby, Harvey Weinstein, Kevin Spacey, etc.

 
squistion said:
Exactly and certainly not just some antiquated notion of over 50 years ago that the OP suggests. For more recent examples of celebrities or the wealthy feeling they are above the law or can get away with just about anything, see: Jeffrey Epstein, Bill Cosby, Harvey Weinstein, Kevin Spacey, etc.
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Spacey was innocent on the Nantucket case. Kid seemed like he was messing with Spacey because he was gay

 
Someone had a post on the Gary Hart scandal and there’s a Watergate thread. I think this stuff is really interesting, especially if we leave Trump & Clinton out of it. - This is a bit of a mystery but not as much as it used to be. The movie Chappaquiddick is good if you haven’t seen it.

My sense is the Sheriff basically let TK get away without a formal interview which is really outrageous.

 
squistion said:
I was on topic as I was responding directly to the assertion quoted below that there was, once a time where this concept and attitude existed and I pointed out that the current POTUS, no less, felt so as recently as 2005.
 
Click to expand...


BigSteelThrill said:
Our current POTUS is desperately trying to bring us back to those days.  MAGA!
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It must suck to not be able to read a new thread without thinking/posting about Trump.

Thats a shame 😕

 
squistion said:
Always on top on things. I am awaiting with bated breath for his next thread on Robert Byrd's membership in the Klan.
Click to expand...
You’re trying to figure out what to post about Donald in that one too I’m sure

or maybe just a tweet of someone else’s thoughts with a nodding emoji 

 
HellToupee said:
There was a time in America where wealth & fame could help you get away with almost anything
Click to expand...
Yeah, you could grab women by the ******* and get away with it if you were rich and famous. You could even walk into a room full of half-naked teen-aged girls at a beauty pageant if you were rich enough to own it.  

 
Cowboysfan8 said:
It must suck to not be able to read a new thread without thinking/posting about Trump.

Thats a shame 😕
Click to expand...
Trump was very quickly thought of by me when I read the post but I won’t derail the thread. Let’s talk about the Dems and Chappaquiddick in here guys. 

 
as i said in one of the moon threads, thx to a trust from an auntie i got to spend some of youthful summers in my mother's home town outside Dublin. what i remember about the summer of '69 is that one week, every Mick who heard my Yank accent would commiserate over the latest Kennedy tragedy, the next wk they were congratulating me like i'd taken the giant leap for mankind meself

 
By the way who wrote that article? I mean it was 50 years ago. Teddy is long dead. What's the point exactly of dredging all this up? Maybe some distraction action?

 
NCCommish said:
By the way who wrote that article? I mean it was 50 years ago. Teddy is long dead. What's the point exactly of dredging all this up? Maybe some distraction action?
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Howie Carr, a conservative talk show host, which is why Hell Toupee didn't have the courage to attribute it to him or provide a link because it would make starting this pointless thread look even more foolish.

And yes, distraction was the only reason this thread was started, "You think Trump and his acquaintances like Epstein are bad? Look at what Ted Kennedy did 50 years ago!"

 
squistion said:
Howie Carr, a conservative talk show host, which is why Hell Toupee didn't have the courage to attribute it to him or provide a link because it would make starting this pointless thread look even more foolish.

And yes, distraction was the only reason this thread was started, "You think Trump and his acquaintances like Epstein are bad? Look at what Ted Kennedy did 50 years ago!"
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:lmao:

Courage posting on a forum.  LOL

 
It's the 50th anniversary of a pretty big historical  political event.

That's why it was posted.

Your partisanship can't let you see that?

 
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NCCommish said:
By the way who wrote that article? I mean it was 50 years ago. Teddy is long dead. What's the point exactly of dredging all this up? Maybe some distraction action?
Click to expand...
1st off I’ll address you as I don’t lump you in with the report every post crowd like some of the courageous Trump haters here.. You also seem like a good person 

Dredging this up? Do you understand the magnitude of this story? Maybe it was just a Boston thing but by the published stories this week I kind of doubt it

Vanity Fair

Boston Globe

Washington Post

Boston Herald

USA Today

Cape Cod Times

Vineyard Gazette

Independent UK

New York Times

New York Times again

New York Post

People

 
Ramblin Wreck said:
Courage posting on a forum.  LOL
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I was going to use a more graphic term similar to the word Spanish speakers use, huevos. Why else not attribute the author or link to the source unless you are afraid that once people know who wrote it, the piece is instantly discredited. And he has a history of doing this every time a source or the author is questionable.

 
squistion said:
I was going to use a more graphic term similar to the word Spanish speakers use, huevos. Why else not attribute the author or link to the source unless you are afraid that once people know who wrote it, the piece is instantly discredited. And he has a history of doing this every time a source or the author is questionable.
Click to expand...
Deal with it

 
Leslie Leland, a pharmacist who owned Leslie's Pharmacy in Vineyard Haven for four decades, was 29 at the time of the Chappaquiddick incident and foreman of the Dukes County grand jury.

Now 79, Leland maintains the post-crash investigation was not on the up-and-up.

He said in an interview from his West Tisbury home that he did not find out about the crash until that Sunday, when someone asked him, "What are you going to do?"

"Then (it) really hit the fan," he said. "The media got wind of it and started showing up."

Leland, who had been seated on the grand jury that April, knew the jury could call for an investigation and subpoena witnesses but do little else.

"I was a pharmacist, not a lawyer," he said. "I never dealt with anything like this."

Leland said he received a call from Edgartown Police Chief Dominick Arena, who died earlier this year, about meeting with him. The meeting was held at the former "blinker light," where a roundabout is now situated on Edgartown-Vineyard Haven Road, to avoid the media.

"He wanted to let me know there was absolutely no reason for a grand jury to get involved, because it was a simple accident," Leland said. "They were saying, 'Don't bother.'"

Arena, years later, denied the meeting ever took place.

"It happened," Leland said. "He was denying it because it would be tampering with a grand jury."

The grand jury met in September and discussed what was happening.

"There was always a question whether she (Kopechne) survived," he said. "With air pockets, she could have lived for hours if she got immediate help, but Kennedy didn't report the accident for eight to 10 hours."

In January 1970, an inquest that was not open to the public heard testimony from those at the party on Chappaquiddick on that fateful night in July.

"When the inquest ended, Judge Boyle decided the information would be impounded and not released to the public," Leland said. "That's not the way it should have been."

Leland contacted the attorney general to request the grand jury be reconvened, which it was in the spring.

"I got death threats and phone calls after asking to reconvene," he said.

When Leland arrived with a state police escort to the courthouse, the district attorney told him he had a message from the judge that he was seriously considering holding Leland in contempt of court for speaking with the media.

Leland, who wanted to call Kennedy in to testify, asked for the impounded inquest information after being told that it contained relevant material and that the judge did not believe Kennedy's timeline. The request was denied.

"I had no indictments," he said, contending that the grand jury had been tampered with and intimidated.

"It was corrupt," he said. "The judge had no right to deny the grand jury to subpoena any of the other people at the party."
Click to expand...
- Cape Cod Times.

 
On July 18, 1969, Sen. Edward M. Kennedy arrived on Martha’s Vineyard with his friends and longtime advisors Joseph Gargan and Paul Markham to sail in the 43rd annual Edgartown Yacht Club regatta. His sloop, a Wianno Senior called the Victura, came in ninth.

That was supposed to be the whole story.

Fifty years, and hundreds of anniversary stories later, the sailing regatta is lost to the caprices of history, a memory forgotten from a day the Island — and the world — would remember forever.

“This is no story of a yacht race,” the Vineyard Gazette declared in its July 22 edition four days later. “It couldn’t be. It is, rather, a story of the vagaries of what occurred and a suggestion of what might have been.”

What might have been was a fun-filled weekend on Martha’s Vineyard for the presidential hopeful and the only living Kennedy brother, a weekend replete with Edgartown brunches, old friends and a sailing race that was never supposed to be won. The vagaries of what occurred included a 28-year-old life that was never supposed to be lost, and a little-known summer resort Island that would never be the same because of it.

After the sailing event, Mr. Kennedy attended a dinner party at the modest Sidney Lawrence cottage, tucked into a copse of scrub oak and pitch pine just off the Chappaquiddick Road. In attendance were Mr. Kennedy’s male advisors and six female assistants, known as the “boiler room girls,” who worked together on the campaign of his brother, Robert F. Kennedy. One of those girls, Mary Jo Kopechne, left the party with Mr. Kennedy under the cover of darkness, her purse and hotel room key still at the house. She never returned to get them.

The next morning, Bob Samuel, age 21, and Joseph Capavella, age 15, were returning from an early morning fishing trip at East Beach when they discovered an overturned black 1968 Oldsmobile submerged at the bottom of Poucha Pond just off the Dike Bridge.
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- Vineyard Gazette.

The Gazette takes a decidedly different tone than the Cape Cod Times article. For the Gazette it's still a "mystery" what happened, not so for the Times.

 
HellToupee said:
1st off I’ll address you as I don’t lump you in with the report every post crowd like some of the courageous Trump haters here.. You also seem like a good person 

Dredging this up? Do you understand the magnitude of this story? Maybe it was just a Boston thing but by the published stories this week I kind of doubt it

Vanity Fair

Boston Globe

Washington Post

Boston Herald

USA Today

Cape Cod Times

Vineyard Gazette

Independent UK

New York Times

New York Times again

New York Post

People
Click to expand...
No I understand it, a woman died. Very serious and I would have supported a full investigation and what likely  should've been prosecution. I also understand that it was a long time ago, people felt a lot differently about drunk driving and it's aftermath, plus everyone involved is dead and so I dont see the point. 

 
NCCommish said:
No I understand it, a woman died. Very serious and I would have supported a full investigation and what likely  should've been prosecution. I also understand that it was a long time ago, people felt a lot differently about drunk driving and it's aftermath, plus everyone involved is dead and so I dont see the point. 
Click to expand...
People like history. And people were and still are fascinated with the Kennedy's. Surprised you didn't know that.  

 
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