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Ran a 10k - Official Thread (2 Viewers)

Some brand called Brooks.  I mix up my HIIT routine everyday.  Mostly cardio but they all include some combo of Abs and pushups.  Lots of lunges which is why I’m surprised that my knees are perfectly fine after a 45-60 minute HIIT workout.
If you are having success with the HIIT approach for your workouts that is great. It possible/likely the stress from the lower body days is leading to what you feel on runs.  Getting mileage going and longer is hard enough in the beginning without high volume leg work. Maybe try more hip dominant stuff like kb swings for a bit and ease off on high volume lunges and squats to see if knee calms down. 

 
Ok, so just found out something about one of my Facebook friends. She is someone my wife and I know that went to med school with us (she was in the year between us) and is apparently a complete stud triathlete.

She competed in the Florida Double Anvil Triathlon in March of this year and won the whole thing. That's a 4.8 mile swim, 224 mile bike and 52.4 mile run. She did it in 25 hours and 16 minutes for a course record, coming in 1st place. In Florida, in 85 degree heat. And she beat all the men in too.

Blog interview with her

W.T.F.  :jawdrop:
All the wubs. That's nuts.

One of my old tri club coaches was top 3 at some world ultra tri thing... 3 IMs... But maybe spread out over several days.

 
If you are having success with the HIIT approach for your workouts that is great. It possible/likely the stress from the lower body days is leading to what you feel on runs.  Getting mileage going and longer is hard enough in the beginning without high volume leg work. Maybe try more hip dominant stuff like kb swings for a bit and ease off on high volume lunges and squats to see if knee calms down. 
FWIW, this thought also went through my mind - just not enough info to say yay or nay. I think leg strength is important to stay healthy running, but there's still that line - are your legs too stressed combining HIIT with increasing mileage.

If it helps, when I'm going through higher volume periods wrt mileage I keep the leg strength exercises lower impact. The kb swings gyno mentioned, single leg rdl's, walking lunges, squat-and-throw's, russians, box jumps, etc. They're meant to compliment the running; not supplement. I will switch it up and do higher demanding strength training during low volume mileage periods. 

Since you're in the mileage building phase I would be sure to keep leg strength low impact. If you're going to push yourself on strength days just do it from the waist up.

 
FWIW, this thought also went through my mind - just not enough info to say yay or nay. I think leg strength is important to stay healthy running, but there's still that line - are your legs too stressed combining HIIT with increasing mileage.

If it helps, when I'm going through higher volume periods wrt mileage I keep the leg strength exercises lower impact. The kb swings gyno mentioned, single leg rdl's, walking lunges, squat-and-throw's, russians, box jumps, etc. They're meant to compliment the running; not supplement. I will switch it up and do higher demanding strength training during low volume mileage periods. 

Since you're in the mileage building phase I would be sure to keep leg strength low impact. If you're going to push yourself on strength days just do it from the waist up.
You've been on a roll lately......

:lol:

 
Cap'n Juxt, I sent you via email a possible 10K course map (which I've also shared with AlexPKeaton in a PM) ...185 feet of drop - 70 feet of easy decline over 4 1/2 miles, a quick up-slope, then a long, descending final mile. Not easy to do here in flat Chicago.   :yes:   It's just down the road from where you are, actually.

 
Cap'n Juxt, I sent you via email a possible 10K course map (which I've also shared with AlexPKeaton in a PM) ...185 feet of drop - 70 feet of easy decline over 4 1/2 miles, a quick up-slope, then a long, descending final mile. Not easy to do here in flat Chicago.   :yes:   It's just down the road from where you are, actually.
I replied in depth but for others here, it would basically be miles 4 through 10 on this run: https://www.strava.com/activities/2647180011

 
Weather and wind direction are looking terrible for me during the racing window  :sadbanana:

Still have plenty of time for changes but I need mother nature to shift some #### around.

 
Cap'n Juxt, I sent you via email a possible 10K course map (which I've also shared with AlexPKeaton in a PM) ...185 feet of drop - 70 feet of easy decline over 4 1/2 miles, a quick up-slope, then a long, descending final mile. Not easy to do here in flat Chicago.   :yes:   It's just down the road from where you are, actually.
This is how it's gonna be? It's time to pull out a topo map of the entire Paris region now....game on!

 
Timing for this one is good for me. After a funk in late March, I feel much better and finally feel like I’m in racing shape.  

10K is my least favorite racing distance and the one I’ve struggled with the most. But it’s also my weakest PR so I should best that. Weather looks OK as long as I can avoid thunderstorms. I’ll just run some normal streets but I’ll try to avoid facing the wind.
 

 
I wasn’t knocking anyone for picking the best route/weather. I just don’t have any other options. I also think running from home on my normal route gives me a better advantage than any downhill/wind-aided route would. For the mile, I may drive to a really long bridge to get a good start.  

 
If I don't do the track, my route isn't going to be anything insane and probably won't be point to point.  Depending on the wind, I'm thinking of a semi-looping course that would be a small elevation loss and probably 60/40 with/against the wind.

 
I took a drive to see about a route, a key stretch is washed out from downhill rushing water  :whistle:

Back to the mapmyroute drawing board. 

 
Some brand called Brooks.  I mix up my HIIT routine everyday.  Mostly cardio but they all include some combo of Abs and pushups.  Lots of lunges which is why I’m surprised that my knees are perfectly fine after a 45-60 minute HIIT workout.
Oh, and here's something else to consider that might also help a good bit.

Cadence

Our resident road runner @SteelCurtain gets up to almost 200. A few of us here have worked on changing our cadence and noted some benefits. As you'll read, higher cadence = less ground contact time = less force and hopefully injuries and also = less chance of overstriding.

 
Oh, and here's something else to consider that might also help a good bit.

Cadence

Our resident road runner @SteelCurtain gets up to almost 200. A few of us here have worked on changing our cadence and noted some benefits. As you'll read, higher cadence = less ground contact time = less force and hopefully injuries and also = less chance of overstriding.
And I’ll play devil’s advocate and say that I don’t worry about cadence OR foot strike and instead just do what comes naturally 

 
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And I’ll play devil’s advocate and say that I don’t worry about cadence OR foot strike and instead just go with what’s natural 
Sure, but you aren't hurt or having knee pain after just a couple miles that's limiting you. So there's a chance something he's doing, especially with form, is causing that. 

Working on a faster cadence and better form may be what he needs to eliminate his knee pain and get him running more. 

 
Thanks for all the tips everyone.  I definitely think I need to adjust my form.  Will try a few different things and see what works.  After all, I’m still technically scheduled for the Broad street run in October.

 
Oh, and here's something else to consider that might also help a good bit.

Cadence

Our resident road runner @SteelCurtain gets up to almost 200. A few of us here have worked on changing our cadence and noted some benefits. As you'll read, higher cadence = less ground contact time = less force and hopefully injuries and also = less chance of overstriding.
@fred_1_15301

The cadence increase worked for me.  I was having IT band issues and ramped up my cadence from low 160s when I ran my half marathon and 15K to the ~185 now when I'm not easy running.  Some of that is from running faster on my fast runs, but I have not had any issues with my knees since I've made the change.  It does take time and effort and your quads will hate you at first, but well worth it.

I also was having feet issues which have been almost completely eliminated by rotating my shoes each run.  I have 3 pairs that I switch in and out depending on the run type and it has been a life saver (big thanks to those that recommended this, I was in misery for awhile).  I think changing up the shoes also helps the whole running motion since it's not the same repetitive wear and tear every single time since each shoe works differently.

 
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@fred_1_15301

The cadence increase worked for me.  I was having IT band issues and ramped up my cadence from low 160s when I ran my half marathon and 15K to the ~185 now when I'm not easy running.  Some of that is from running faster on my fast runs, bit I have not had any issues with my knees since I've made the change.  It does take time and effort and your quads will hate you at first, but well worth it.

I also was having feet issues which have been almost completely eliminated by rotating my shoes each run.  I have 3 pairs that I switch in and out depending on the run type and it has been a life saver (big thanks to those that recommended this, I was in misery for awhile).  I think changing up the shoes also helps the whole running motion since it's not the same repetitive wear and tear every single time since each shoe works differently).
Thanks.  I will say that I need to figure it out soon.  It’s getting to my head now.  On my last run (the attempted 10 miler), it was on my mind from the start.  I kept saying to myself “please don’t let the knee act up”.  I’m actually getting nervous to run because I have this barrier that I can’t seem to get past.

 
Thanks.  I will say that I need to figure it out soon.  It’s getting to my head now.  On my last run (the attempted 10 miler), it was on my mind from the start.  I kept saying to myself “please don’t let the knee act up”.  I’m actually getting nervous to run because I have this barrier that I can’t seem to get past.
It may be worth giving it a shot.  I would recommend doing some reading on increasing your cadence.  In general, you only want to raise it 5-10% at a time.  Some say to only do it on a run or two a week or for a few minutes per run to start.  I am inpatient and did it on every run.  First going from 160 to 170 and then 170 to 180.  I downloaded a metronome on my phone that I played while I ran (set at half of my desired cadence to line it up for when my left foot striked).

 
Thanks.  I will say that I need to figure it out soon.  It’s getting to my head now.  On my last run (the attempted 10 miler), it was on my mind from the start.  I kept saying to myself “please don’t let the knee act up”.  I’m actually getting nervous to run because I have this barrier that I can’t seem to get past.
Search for #projectcadence.  I was using that on some of my posts when I was increasing it.  

 
Ok, so just found out something about one of my Facebook friends. She is someone my wife and I know that went to med school with us (she was in the year between us) and is apparently a complete stud triathlete.

She competed in the Florida Double Anvil Triathlon in March of this year and won the whole thing. That's a 4.8 mile swim, 224 mile bike and 52.4 mile run. She did it in 25 hours and 16 minutes for a course record, coming in 1st place. In Florida, in 85 degree heat. And she beat all the men in too.

Blog interview with her

W.T.F.  :jawdrop:
She just started running and biking 10 years ago

 
JFC.  Pretty good blueprint here for how to train if you’re serious and do so with no excuses.  My word.

Deree’s bike is a Felt B16. She rides the biggest gear on the trainer, with a rubber band around the break to give her super-huge resistance. In the water, Deree swims with paddles (TYR) to work on strength, with swim bands around her legs. She runs a lot of hills and does tempo work, and said that all of her runs have purpose. For additional strengthening, Deree does two core and strength training sessions a week.

I work about 60 hours a week, sometimes more. Some- times I work 30 hours in a row – and that then counts as my workout rest day (go figure). 

 
Back from my now usual 7.2m .

The hamstring topped out at just under 8/m before twinging. I'll keep an eye this week and give it a go next weekend...but may have to bag it and be forced to use a run from a couple weeks ago for the 10k.

 
I wanna beat this:  https://fastestknowntime.com/route/glacial-drumlin-state-trail-wi

Can I do this without any specific ultra training, relying on just my base fitness? It’s a flat rail trail.
About 9 minute miles?  I'd guess it would mainly be about making sure you handle the hydration and nutrition right.  I'm assuming you'd attempt in the fall not summer.

Edit: When you put in a 3 hour marathon on the McMillan calculator it computes as a 7:59 50-miler pace.  That record is soft so you''d have a lot to work with.

 
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I imagine all these stay at home orders have been a boon for the running industry. When my state shut down, I was lucky if I got in a single 3 mile run each week. Fast forward to yesterday when I did a 10 mile run with a 693 foot elevation gain in 90 degree blazing sunshine. And now my weekly range is between 26-30 miles in 90 degree, midday Vegas heat. Only possible because of all the extra time on my hands and the desire (desperation) to get outside. Also possible because of what I learned in this thread years ago about pre-run nutrition, hydration, and proper footwear. From 3 miles to 10 in just over six weeks. Thanks FFA, especially those who contribute heavily to this thread. Lots of good people in this group.

 
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Juxtatarot said:
About 9 minute miles?  I'd guess it would mainly be about making sure you handle the hydration and nutrition right.  I'm assuming you'd attempt in the fall not summer.

Edit: When you put in a 3 hour marathon on the McMillan calculator it computes as a 7:59 50-miler pace.  That record is soft so you''d have a lot to work with.
I was thinking in the next couple of weeks...

 
gianmarco said:
Ok, so just found out something about one of my Facebook friends. She is someone my wife and I know that went to med school with us (she was in the year between us) and is apparently a complete stud triathlete.

She competed in the Florida Double Anvil Triathlon in March of this year and won the whole thing. That's a 4.8 mile swim, 224 mile bike and 52.4 mile run. She did it in 25 hours and 16 minutes for a course record, coming in 1st place. In Florida, in 85 degree heat. And she beat all the men in too.

Blog interview with her

W.T.F.  :jawdrop:
"...a 52.4 mile run on a 1 mile loop" - an FYI for those fretting over use of a track for next week's 10K.

 

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