What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

2014 Subscriber Contest - Preparatory Analysis as Entertaining Timewas (1 Viewer)

SeniorVBDStudent

Footballguy
There are some readily available old threads which define some of the math underlying setting player worth / auction values which is somewhat relevant to the annual subscriber contest.

Example: http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=543168

However, the contest is more complex than setting auction values for a league including N teams, in that:

1. There is a pool of players to choose from, but there is only one team...the team that you select.

2. Although the starter set is defined (1Qb/2Rb/2Wr/1TE/1Flex/1Pk/1Def in the 2013 contest), the "non-flyer" roster size is variable, perhaps 18 core players and 6 flyers.

3. In traditional auction math you set budgets for backups and for starters and use best backup for starter baseline, but the options are more complex for contest math

In particular, a simple model for starters and backups might be: (qbs here, similar "tiers" for RBs, WRs, TEs)

1a. Elite Qbs - Top 5

1b. Very good Qbs - Rank 6-12

1c. Other Qbs who will likely start more than 14 games - Ranks 12-24

2. Backup pool

Can you propose a mathematical framework for "optimizing" the 18 core players which could involve various combinations of 1-3 QBs, 2-4 RBs, 2-4 WRs, 1-3 TEs, etc?

Obviously this borders on ridiculous levels of paralysis by analysis, but I am curious to what extent others have "gone down this path" and would care to share insights into a "rational method"...

 
Rank each position in order of ppg for the last 3-5 years -- call them QB1, QB2, etc

Match up traditional contest values for QB1, QB2, QB3 using averages from last 3-5 years (as if you had perfect knowledge beforehand)

Get the actual weekly scores for each position (QB1, QB2, etc) and average them for the 3-5 years in question

Set mins and max on each of the positions, on the total number of players, and on the total value of the collection.

Run a Monte Carlo simulation and look at top-X results to see what roster composition patterns show up most often.

ETA: then get really lucky.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
It's a free contest and I surmise that no matter how much time I spend on preparatory analysis I'll still be extremely lucky to win it. So, each year I wing it and hope I do well. Not knocking those who do the "math" ahead of time in preparation, it's just not for me.

Someday I'd like to hear from the winner stating he/she did all the prep/analysis work and it paid off in the end....has that happened yet, or are past winners simply the luckiest ones?

 
It's a free contest and I surmise that no matter how much time I spend on preparatory analysis I'll still be extremely lucky to win it. So, each year I wing it and hope I do well. Not knocking those who do the "math" ahead of time in preparation, it's just not for me.

Someday I'd like to hear from the winner stating he/she did all the prep/analysis work and it paid off in the end....has that happened yet, or are past winners simply the luckiest ones?
I've made it to the top 250 last year with your approach....I did a little analysis looking at make-up of teams that made the cut a couple of times trying to determine rough guidelines for #s at each position. Maybe 20-30 minutes worth of work.

 
Noah Davis said:
Ruffrodys05 said:
It's a free contest and I surmise that no matter how much time I spend on preparatory analysis I'll still be extremely lucky to win it. So, each year I wing it and hope I do well. Not knocking those who do the "math" ahead of time in preparation, it's just not for me.

Someday I'd like to hear from the winner stating he/she did all the prep/analysis work and it paid off in the end....has that happened yet, or are past winners simply the luckiest ones?
I've made it to the top 250 last year with your approach....I did a little analysis looking at make-up of teams that made the cut a couple of times trying to determine rough guidelines for #s at each position. Maybe 20-30 minutes worth of work.
I finished at 26 two years ago. I benefited from a maxed out number of players, picked a couple of studs outside the top 10 that finished top 5, and hit on a bunch of flyers. In the end you have to get lucky, but I think the right preparation is necessary to get you to the point that getting lucky can win it for you. I'm not a math guy, but will listen carefully to anyone who's doing the work.

 
Ruffrodys05 said:
It's a free contest and I surmise that no matter how much time I spend on preparatory analysis I'll still be extremely lucky to win it. So, each year I wing it and hope I do well. Not knocking those who do the "math" ahead of time in preparation, it's just not for me.

Someday I'd like to hear from the winner stating he/she did all the prep/analysis work and it paid off in the end....has that happened yet, or are past winners simply the luckiest ones?
But to make sure we're clear to the new folks, it's "free" to the folks that purchase the Footballguys Insider Pro subscription. Meaning it's not a "free" contest in the sense that there will be a zillion entries. It's a relatively small number of entries for a prize this big. In fact, I've long said I'd buy the Insider Pro Subscription just for a shot at the contest. With this kind of prize pool for a $29.95 entry fee (or less this week while the early bird is still running), it's a huge value.

Not to say there isn't some luck involved. Of course there is. But I think a ton of people do exceptionally well by putting in the home work.

J

 
Ruffrodys05 said:
It's a free contest and I surmise that no matter how much time I spend on preparatory analysis I'll still be extremely lucky to win it. So, each year I wing it and hope I do well. Not knocking those who do the "math" ahead of time in preparation, it's just not for me.

Someday I'd like to hear from the winner stating he/she did all the prep/analysis work and it paid off in the end....has that happened yet, or are past winners simply the luckiest ones?
But to make sure we're clear to the new folks, it's "free" to the folks that purchase the Footballguys Insider Pro subscription. Meaning it's not a "free" contest in the sense that there will be a zillion entries. It's a relatively small number of entries for a prize this big. In fact, I've long said I'd buy the Insider Pro Subscription just for a shot at the contest. With this kind of prize pool for a $29.95 entry fee (or less this week while the early bird is still running), it's a huge value.

Not to say there isn't some luck involved. Of course there is. But I think a ton of people do exceptionally well by putting in the home work.

J
I'm sorry Joe, I didn't mean to be misleading with my post. But....the title of the thread has "Subscriber Contest" in it, so I assumed all who read it understood what this was about. My bad....sometimes I forget that the boards are always free, and always have been....

 
Ruffrodys05 said:
It's a free contest and I surmise that no matter how much time I spend on preparatory analysis I'll still be extremely lucky to win it. So, each year I wing it and hope I do well. Not knocking those who do the "math" ahead of time in preparation, it's just not for me.

Someday I'd like to hear from the winner stating he/she did all the prep/analysis work and it paid off in the end....has that happened yet, or are past winners simply the luckiest ones?
But to make sure we're clear to the new folks, it's "free" to the folks that purchase the Footballguys Insider Pro subscription. Meaning it's not a "free" contest in the sense that there will be a zillion entries. It's a relatively small number of entries for a prize this big. In fact, I've long said I'd buy the Insider Pro Subscription just for a shot at the contest. With this kind of prize pool for a $29.95 entry fee (or less this week while the early bird is still running), it's a huge value.

Not to say there isn't some luck involved. Of course there is. But I think a ton of people do exceptionally well by putting in the home work.

J
I'm sorry Joe, I didn't mean to be misleading with my post. But....the title of the thread has "Subscriber Contest" in it, so I assumed all who read it understood what this was about. My bad....sometimes I forget that the boards are always free, and always have been....
:hifive: No worries. All good.

J

 
Ruffrodys05 said:
It's a free contest and I surmise that no matter how much time I spend on preparatory analysis I'll still be extremely lucky to win it. So, each year I wing it and hope I do well. Not knocking those who do the "math" ahead of time in preparation, it's just not for me.

Someday I'd like to hear from the winner stating he/she did all the prep/analysis work and it paid off in the end....has that happened yet, or are past winners simply the luckiest ones?
But to make sure we're clear to the new folks, it's "free" to the folks that purchase the Footballguys Insider Pro subscription. Meaning it's not a "free" contest in the sense that there will be a zillion entries. It's a relatively small number of entries for a prize this big. In fact, I've long said I'd buy the Insider Pro Subscription just for a shot at the contest. With this kind of prize pool for a $29.95 entry fee (or less this week while the early bird is still running), it's a huge value.

Not to say there isn't some luck involved. Of course there is. But I think a ton of people do exceptionally well by putting in the home work.

J
Let's not forget the Fanduel hook which was basically printing free money. Will Fanduel be back this year with the same promotion?

 
Any idea when they post this? I remember its usually pretty early, like late July or the start of August.

Its a great timesink.

 
I heard there is a new twist to the contest this year: you can only revise your entry form a maximum of 5,000 times. That's gonna be tough.

 
It's a free contest and I surmise that no matter how much time I spend on preparatory analysis I'll still be extremely lucky to win it. So, each year I wing it and hope I do well. Not knocking those who do the "math" ahead of time in preparation, it's just not for me.

Someday I'd like to hear from the winner stating he/she did all the prep/analysis work and it paid off in the end....has that happened yet, or are past winners simply the luckiest ones?
But to make sure we're clear to the new folks, it's "free" to the folks that purchase the Footballguys Insider Pro subscription. Meaning it's not a "free" contest in the sense that there will be a zillion entries. It's a relatively small number of entries for a prize this big. In fact, I've long said I'd buy the Insider Pro Subscription just for a shot at the contest. With this kind of prize pool for a $29.95 entry fee (or less this week while the early bird is still running), it's a huge value.

Not to say there isn't some luck involved. Of course there is. But I think a ton of people do exceptionally well by putting in the home work.

J
Just re-upped for 3 years :)

-QG

 
I heard there is a new twist to the contest this year: you can only revise your entry form a maximum of 5,000 times. That's gonna be tough.
Perfect. I screwed up my roster pretty badly on edit # 5,001 last year.

To the comments from 2 months ago...when you get into an entry with this many people, of course you have to have luck to win 1st overall. I bet using stats and math will help you get in the top 10-20%, but math isn't going to get you 1st place.

I'll break the secret to the first timers on how to win this contest:

You have to not flop on your big name players and you have to hit on 3-4 guys that blow up that nobody else expects.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I heard there is a new twist to the contest this year: you can only revise your entry form a maximum of 5,000 times. That's gonna be tough.
I'll break the secret to the first timers on how to win this contest:

You have to not flop on your big name players and you have to hit on 3-4 guys that blow up that nobody else expects.
Yup. Last year I fell into the trap of overhyped players. Had Wilson, Miller, Thompkins and Sudfield as some of my guys. Think I had Roddy White too. So with the guys not living up to the hype and Roddy basically playing hurt all season, I had zero shot.

 
Bumping the correct 2014 thread :)

-QG
I am starting to think about this year's contest. When did we get the entry form last year?
Any idea when they post this? I remember its usually pretty early, like late July or the start of August.

Its a great timesink.
http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=684888&hl=%2Bsubscriber+%2Bcontest
You guys are confusing me.

Whichever thread is the correct one, do we have any info yet? Fanduel back in the mix again for the double prizes? Any idea about scoring/rule changes?

 
Bumping the correct 2014 thread :)

-QG
I am starting to think about this year's contest. When did we get the entry form last year?
Any idea when they post this? I remember its usually pretty early, like late July or the start of August.

Its a great timesink.
http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=684888&hl=%2Bsubscriber+%2Bcontest
You guys are confusing me.

Whichever thread is the correct one, do we have any info yet? Fanduel back in the mix again for the double prizes? Any idea about scoring/rule changes?
This is the "correct" thread b/c it references 2014. Nothing yet on the contest. Last year the stuff came out around July 30th.

-QG

 
Hopefully the FD deal is back in play. That was basically free money.
From Dodds in the other thread (i.e. the old thread):

"It is not in effect for 2014. We do have some things that will be announced at a later day for FBG players at FanDuel."

-QG

 
This opened up on 7/30 last year, so we could be less than a week away.
They may wait until the official Josh Gordon suspension length is known.
I'd be ok if they just priced him as if he'd have an 8 game suspension. If he gets 16 then no one rosters him. No big deal. But wouldn't want to see him at $2 and then he gets a lighter suspension and he's suddenly on 90% of rosters.

 
This opened up on 7/30 last year, so we could be less than a week away.
They may wait until the official Josh Gordon suspension length is known.
I'd be ok if they just priced him as if he'd have an 8 game suspension. If he gets 16 then no one rosters him. No big deal. But wouldn't want to see him at $2 and then he gets a lighter suspension and he's suddenly on 90% of rosters.
Agreed. Price him as if he'll get the minimum realistic suspension. To me, that's six games.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
This opened up on 7/30 last year, so we could be less than a week away.
They may wait until the official Josh Gordon suspension length is known.
I'd be ok if they just priced him as if he'd have an 8 game suspension. If he gets 16 then no one rosters him. No big deal. But wouldn't want to see him at $2 and then he gets a lighter suspension and he's suddenly on 90% of rosters.
agreed but that decision impacts two QBs, three (or more) WRs, a TE and maybe RBs. do you price all of those players as if Gordon were out half the year?

 
FUBAR said:
FF Ninja said:
The Man With No Name said:
FF Ninja said:
This opened up on 7/30 last year, so we could be less than a week away.
They may wait until the official Josh Gordon suspension length is known.
I'd be ok if they just priced him as if he'd have an 8 game suspension. If he gets 16 then no one rosters him. No big deal. But wouldn't want to see him at $2 and then he gets a lighter suspension and he's suddenly on 90% of rosters.
agreed but that decision impacts two QBs, three (or more) WRs, a TE and maybe RBs. do you price all of those players as if Gordon were out half the year?
Those QBs are going to be ranked very whether Gordon is there or not, and the values are based on Dodds' rankings, right? I think him playing a full season vs. none makes about $1 difference in price. Right now Dodds has Manziel at QB30 and Hoyer at 33, so we're looking at the $5-$7 range. If someone gets a $6 QB for $5, I'm not going to lose any sleep. The WRs are similar. It's not like the WR1 on Cle is going to drop in rankings from WR15 to WR28. I also don't think Gordon has a great impact on the RBs. Miles Austin is the highest ranked WR at 62 which is about $6. If Gordon comes back, he might drop down to $5 as the WR2 on the team.

So the short answer to your question is: doesn't matter.

 
FUBAR said:
FF Ninja said:
The Man With No Name said:
FF Ninja said:
This opened up on 7/30 last year, so we could be less than a week away.
They may wait until the official Josh Gordon suspension length is known.
I'd be ok if they just priced him as if he'd have an 8 game suspension. If he gets 16 then no one rosters him. No big deal. But wouldn't want to see him at $2 and then he gets a lighter suspension and he's suddenly on 90% of rosters.
agreed but that decision impacts two QBs, three (or more) WRs, a TE and maybe RBs. do you price all of those players as if Gordon were out half the year?
Those QBs are going to be ranked very whether Gordon is there or not, and the values are based on Dodds' rankings, right? I think him playing a full season vs. none makes about $1 difference in price. Right now Dodds has Manziel at QB30 and Hoyer at 33, so we're looking at the $5-$7 range. If someone gets a $6 QB for $5, I'm not going to lose any sleep. The WRs are similar. It's not like the WR1 on Cle is going to drop in rankings from WR15 to WR28. I also don't think Gordon has a great impact on the RBs. Miles Austin is the highest ranked WR at 62 which is about $6. If Gordon comes back, he might drop down to $5 as the WR2 on the team.

So the short answer to your question is: doesn't matter.
:whoosh:

Assume you're right, that's still a dollar or two per player, for a decision that would come in a few days after they may post the contest. There's no need to rush it out, wait for the biggest anticipated decision of the off-season.

 
This opened up on 7/30 last year, so we could be less than a week away.
They may wait until the official Josh Gordon suspension length is known.
I'd be ok if they just priced him as if he'd have an 8 game suspension. If he gets 16 then no one rosters him. No big deal. But wouldn't want to see him at $2 and then he gets a lighter suspension and he's suddenly on 90% of rosters.
agreed but that decision impacts two QBs, three (or more) WRs, a TE and maybe RBs. do you price all of those players as if Gordon were out half the year?
Those QBs are going to be ranked very whether Gordon is there or not, and the values are based on Dodds' rankings, right? I think him playing a full season vs. none makes about $1 difference in price. Right now Dodds has Manziel at QB30 and Hoyer at 33, so we're looking at the $5-$7 range. If someone gets a $6 QB for $5, I'm not going to lose any sleep. The WRs are similar. It's not like the WR1 on Cle is going to drop in rankings from WR15 to WR28. I also don't think Gordon has a great impact on the RBs. Miles Austin is the highest ranked WR at 62 which is about $6. If Gordon comes back, he might drop down to $5 as the WR2 on the team.

So the short answer to your question is: doesn't matter.
:whoosh:

Assume you're right, that's still a dollar or two per player, for a decision that would come in a few days after they may post the contest. There's no need to rush it out, wait for the biggest anticipated decision of the off-season.
Meant to say "very *low* whether Gordon is there or not." So there is no whoosh. Gordon's impact will be negligible on the other players as far as price. I mean, if Manziel is $5 without Gordon vs. $6 with, does that make any difference in the payout rankings at the end of the year? Probably not. I am not even sure Gordon makes a dollar's worth of difference to him, though. He's not throwing for 4k yards with or without Gordon. This will be a bottom ranked passing attack no matter what and no one is going to want to touch either QB due to the uncertainty at the position.

There is no legitimate reason to worry about the Gordon decision for this contest except for Gordon himself. I maintain his impact on all other positions is less than or equal to $1 worth.

 
It is going to be Monday, August 4th. We are finalizing pricing now and want the staff to try and break it / remove too many obvious bargains

 
Rank each position in order of ppg for the last 3-5 years -- call them QB1, QB2, etc

Match up traditional contest values for QB1, QB2, QB3 using averages from last 3-5 years (as if you had perfect knowledge beforehand)

Get the actual weekly scores for each position (QB1, QB2, etc) and average them for the 3-5 years in question

Set mins and max on each of the positions, on the total number of players, and on the total value of the collection.

Run a Monte Carlo simulation and look at top-X results to see what roster composition patterns show up most often.

ETA: then get really lucky.
Good post. Can you post step by step instructions for the aforementioned Monte Carlo simulation?

Or, alternatively, post a link to where I can download the scoring by ranking for QB, RB, etc. for the last 15 years? I want to do some statistical analysis in a PAVT vein....

 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top