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Free undergraduate admissions advice (1 Viewer)

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Shirtless

Footballguy
I went to college at one of "those" schools. Then I worked as a teacher and college counselor in a public high school for two years, followed by working as a college counselor for a non-profit organization in more public high schools. After being laid off (thanks, education budget) I went to grad school in education at one of "those" schools.

While I was existing as a lower-level organism in grad school, I worked as an application reader for my school's office of undergraduate admissions. This does not mean I was an admissions counselor. I never went to schools, talked up high school counselors, etc. I just read applications and sat on committees.

Now I'm doing evaluation/research. I've tried to volunteer at local schools to help with college admissions, but responses have been pretty unenthusiastic. Pretty disappointing. Anyways, I figured if I can't do it in real life, I might as well try something online.

High school students (any here?) and parents of high school students are all fair game. Don't ask questions like "Does my kid have a chance at XYZ school?" or variations thereof, like "Is an XYZ score on the SAT/ACT good enough for XYZ school?" Also, don't ask questions about what race your child should select, or insert your own schitck about Affirmative Action.

Anyone else with relevant experience is more than welcome to also contribute.

 
'koby925 said:
How much weight is given to essays?
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Very contextual. At large public universities, not much. Those admissions are more statistically driven and essays might not even be read due to lack of resources or automated filtering. At highly-selective institutions, much more. Those places have admissions counselors whose responsibility is to read all application materials from all applicants, often passing it along to other counselors. In those circumstances, essays have the opportunity to make/break an application. Basically, the smaller and more selective the school, the more the essays matter. The larger and less selective teh school, the less the essays matter.
 
'Wild Young Billy said:
How important is Community service for a student to have in order to get into a school?
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In my experience, not very. The only time I even thought about it was when something about the applicant fished for it. For instance, I once had a counselor write that an applicant had done a lot of growing up in school. I then checked to see if there was any sort of trend in that kid's community service to give evidence to personal growth. Another time (actually a few times), something about an applicant struck me as arrogant or haughty, and I checked to see if that attitude was reflected in a lack of community service.But there certainly isn't a standard line that applicants have to meet in order to be considered. Like many things, context is super important. If an applicant bills him/herself as a super concerned member of society who wants to save the world, then yeah I would expect to see lots of community service. However, if someone is a computer whiz who builds robots in his garage, then it's not nearly as big of a deal.
 
'otello said:
Let's go with the tell us about yourself.
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I would say don't worry about being flashy or unique. At my school, each counselor read in upwards of 2,000 applications. The goal was for each application to be read in no more than 20 minutes. You can do the math to determine the raw number of hours spent reading applications. Anyways, the point is, regardless of how special you think you situation is, or your service project was, or your trip abroad was, at least 30 other people have written about it. It's guaranteed. No one is going to catch an admission counselor by surprise. The essays that stood out to me were simple in nature but very well written. They were funny, or charming, and always showed that the applicant had some personality. One that sticks out right now is an applicant who wrote about how a teacher in middle school was so angry about climate change that he scared students into believing that eating a burger would cause polar bears to explode instantly (his words, not mine). His essay was about reconciling his social responsibility with doing what he wants to, like eating delicious beef. Nothing creative, but well written with a personable voice. And now I still remember it.
 
'SacramentoBob said:
'Shirtless said:
Another time (actually a few times), something about an applicant struck me as arrogant or haughty, and I checked to see if that attitude was reflected in a lack of community service.
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People who don't do community service are arrogant?
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Not necessarily. But you work with what you're given. If a teacher tells me that a student has problems thinking about others, then I want to see if that's true. Community service seemed like a good place to start.
 
My son's a junior and is taking nothing but AP classes this year. Do most colleges still count the AP credit and is a lower GPA in AP classes (say B average) looked on the same or more favorably than a higher GPA in standard classes (say A average)? Also, you might not know this particular, but how hard is the University of Maryland to get into? It's a state school so I can't believe what I'm hearing that you need like 1,300 SATs + 3.5+ GPA. Thanks

 
I'm a high school math teacher.

I've heard that all applications get insta-sorted into 3 piles based on ACT/SAT scores: 1) In. 2) Out. 3) Investigate further. So with a certain score, you're in almost no matter what, and if you don't meet a certain minimum, then nothing else really matters. In the middle is where the other things come into play. Is this true?

I've heard/read that if a student takes the ACT multiple times, that colleges will take their highest score in each subject and give them a new composite. True?

Thanks!

 
Thought of a another one.

What looks better on a transcript in an AP class: a C or a "credit." Also, is it better for the student to get a C or D in, say, AP Calculus or to take a blow-off math class?

 
'Wild Young Billy said:
Will colleges only accept a certain number of students from a specific high school?
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Officially, no. Unofficially, it's a bit dicier.At large public schools, this is much less of a concern because student bodies are huge. At highly selective private schools, this is much more of a concern due to smaller student bodies and huge applicant pools.Where I worked, we definitely had a few "feeder" schools that pumped super highly qualified applicants into our pool. No one ever told me "only take 5 from that school," but it was generally acknowledged that half of our freshman class couldn't be from three schools.
 
'James Daulton said:
My son's a junior and is taking nothing but AP classes this year. Do most colleges still count the AP credit and is a lower GPA in AP classes (say B average) looked on the same or more favorably than a higher GPA in standard classes (say A average)? Also, you might not know this particular, but how hard is the University of Maryland to get into? It's a state school so I can't believe what I'm hearing that you need like 1,300 SATs + 3.5+ GPA. Thanks
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I have no idea how colleges in general regard AP credits. Mine accepted them. University of Maryland website will have a statistical profile of their incoming class. You can find good expectations there. Keep in mind out-of-state will be more competitive than in-state.
 
'tribecalledjeff said:
I'm a high school math teacher. I've heard that all applications get insta-sorted into 3 piles based on ACT/SAT scores: 1) In. 2) Out. 3) Investigate further. So with a certain score, you're in almost no matter what, and if you don't meet a certain minimum, then nothing else really matters. In the middle is where the other things come into play. Is this true?I've heard/read that if a student takes the ACT multiple times, that colleges will take their highest score in each subject and give them a new composite. True?Thanks!
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At my school that did not happen. Every application was read regardless of test scores. What you're describing sounds like it would be more prevalent at a large public institution with less resources devoted to admissions. I can't give you the inside scoop from those places, however.Each school's standardized test policy differs. Most will take the highest score. Of those, some might take the highest individual sections and create a highest score. Some will only take the highest composite from one individual test. If you're uncertain, call the school's admissions office.
 
'tribecalledjeff said:
Thought of a another one. What looks better on a transcript in an AP class: a C or a "credit." Also, is it better for the student to get a C or D in, say, AP Calculus or to take a blow-off math class?
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Depends on the context. Clearly no one would take a "pass" as opposed to an A, so it's assumed that kid didn't do too well in that class. Admission counselors will also know quite a bit about individual schools from having spoken with their counselors, received previous applications from that school, etc. If it's well known that that class is pretty difficult, then the counselors will care less about a pass. But if everyone always gets A's in that class, then a pass will look more suspicious. I always say take the harder class. It's better for admissions, and life in general.
 
If you are applying for a music scholarship at a state school, how much do grades play into it? My kid is ultra-talented musically, but a bit lazy in the classroom (he's gotten a couple c's, the rest a's and b's).

 
'kutta said:
If you are applying for a music scholarship at a state school, how much do grades play into it? My kid is ultra-talented musically, but a bit lazy in the classroom (he's gotten a couple c's, the rest a's and b's).
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It's a spectrum. The more musically capable he is, the less grades matter. He'll have to submit a fine arts sample, like a recording. We had professors from the music department listen to our submissions and then give us a rating, since admissions counselors aren't musical experts. Exceptionally high ratings could cause us to overlook some academic misgivings. Not as strongly as say, a top rated quarterback, however.
 
'Shirtless said:
'tribecalledjeff said:
Thought of a another one. What looks better on a transcript in an AP class: a C or a "credit." Also, is it better for the student to get a C or D in, say, AP Calculus or to take a blow-off math class?
Click to expand...
Depends on the context. Clearly no one would take a "pass" as opposed to an A, so it's assumed that kid didn't do too well in that class. Admission counselors will also know quite a bit about individual schools from having spoken with their counselors, received previous applications from that school, etc. If it's well known that that class is pretty difficult, then the counselors will care less about a pass. But if everyone always gets A's in that class, then a pass will look more suspicious. I always say take the harder class. It's better for admissions, and life in general.
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Thanks for your time and for answering my questions :thumbup:
 
'Shirtless said:
'tribecalledjeff said:
Thought of a another one. What looks better on a transcript in an AP class: a C or a "credit." Also, is it better for the student to get a C or D in, say, AP Calculus or to take a blow-off math class?
Click to expand...
Depends on the context. Clearly no one would take a "pass" as opposed to an A, so it's assumed that kid didn't do too well in that class. Admission counselors will also know quite a bit about individual schools from having spoken with their counselors, received previous applications from that school, etc. If it's well known that that class is pretty difficult, then the counselors will care less about a pass. But if everyone always gets A's in that class, then a pass will look more suspicious. I always say take the harder class. It's better for admissions, and life in general.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the info and the great thread idea. Regarding your last point, I saw an interview a couple weeks ago with three college admissions experts and all three said that the most important factor considered is the rigorousness of the curriculum taken by the applicant. Is that consistent with why you're saying?
 
'bigbottom said:
'Shirtless said:
'tribecalledjeff said:
Thought of a another one. What looks better on a transcript in an AP class: a C or a "credit." Also, is it better for the student to get a C or D in, say, AP Calculus or to take a blow-off math class?
Click to expand...
Depends on the context. Clearly no one would take a "pass" as opposed to an A, so it's assumed that kid didn't do too well in that class. Admission counselors will also know quite a bit about individual schools from having spoken with their counselors, received previous applications from that school, etc. If it's well known that that class is pretty difficult, then the counselors will care less about a pass. But if everyone always gets A's in that class, then a pass will look more suspicious. I always say take the harder class. It's better for admissions, and life in general.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the info and the great thread idea. Regarding your last point, I saw an interview a couple weeks ago with three college admissions experts and all three said that the most important factor considered is the rigorousness of the curriculum taken by the applicant. Is that consistent with why you're saying?
Click to expand...
Absolutely. When I evaluated applicants, the first thing on my list (and the list was given to me, I didn't create it) was high school curriculum. That means grades + rigor.
 
How much weight does your "approval" of an applicant carry; is it enough to get an applicant into your school by itself? Would it be advantageous to locate the person in your position in a reach school and offer him say $10,000 for a good "review"; it seems like there is a lot of room for personal opinion on the grading of these essays, a questionable good grade could be explained easy enough.

 
Thanks for this interesting thread.

For anyone going through this process (or getting ready to), I can't recommend strongly enough a book called "The Gatekeepers." Wesleyan University - a highly selective school - basically allowed the New York Times to embed its higher ed reporter with the Admissions Office for an entire year. Though the book is from 1999, it gives great information about what really goes on in the admissions meetings and what makes a difference between outright acceptance, outright rejection, or the vast middle ground of applicants that must be debated upon.

He writes that at the most selective schools, far and away, the biggest factors are high SAT/ACT scores coupled with being in the top 10 percent (maybe top 25 percent) of your class while taking the most rigorous academic curriculum at your school. If you don't have that, unless you're a star athlete or legacy or come from an under-represented ethnic group, you're almost certainly not in the conversation. If you do have that, then all the other stuff comes into play - extra-curriculars and public service, essays, recommendations, etc.

He also says that if you can package yourself in a way that makes your unique personality/accomplishments clear enough to earn a nickname, then it's a great indicator that you can get accepted (e.g., "Opera Girl," "Rocket Builder," "Arabic Interpreter," etc.).

The guy who wrote that book also maintains an outstanding NY Times blog about college admissions:

http://thechoice.blogs.nytimes.com/

 
I have a kid in 3rd grade. What's the lowest-effort thing I can do now that will yield the highest benefit when she applies to college in nine years?

 
My kid is just in 4th grade, but we have been saving for college, so I do have a few questions.

I also went to one of those stuffy schools and found an interesting trend. I had no clue where I wanted to go to school and my father is a college professor. He figured, "apply to them all", so that is what I did...total of 17 schools. Probably 15 of those fit into two categories; small liberal arts schools in the North East (I am from NJ originally), and larger, public and private schools in the South East. This was in the early-mid 90s and I remember that it was actually easier for me to get into the private, liberal arts schools (though they were ranked a good deal higher), than for me to get into the bigger southern universities (ranked lower).

With the prices of private schools over 50k now (and the state of the economy), are they pretty easy to get into compared to the public universities which are much more affordable?

 
'Sweet Love said:
My kid is just in 4th grade, but we have been saving for college, so I do have a few questions.I also went to one of those stuffy schools and found an interesting trend. I had no clue where I wanted to go to school and my father is a college professor. He figured, "apply to them all", so that is what I did...total of 17 schools. Probably 15 of those fit into two categories; small liberal arts schools in the North East (I am from NJ originally), and larger, public and private schools in the South East. This was in the early-mid 90s and I remember that it was actually easier for me to get into the private, liberal arts schools (though they were ranked a good deal higher), than for me to get into the bigger southern universities (ranked lower).
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I think most public universities have a quota for the number of out-of-state students they admit. So it's really really hard for a non-state resident to get into a top public school like UNC or Berkeley.
 
'Sweet Love said:
My kid is just in 4th grade, but we have been saving for college, so I do have a few questions.I also went to one of those stuffy schools and found an interesting trend. I had no clue where I wanted to go to school and my father is a college professor. He figured, "apply to them all", so that is what I did...total of 17 schools. Probably 15 of those fit into two categories; small liberal arts schools in the North East (I am from NJ originally), and larger, public and private schools in the South East. This was in the early-mid 90s and I remember that it was actually easier for me to get into the private, liberal arts schools (though they were ranked a good deal higher), than for me to get into the bigger southern universities (ranked lower).With the prices of private schools over 50k now (and the state of the economy), are they pretty easy to get into compared to the public universities which are much more affordable?
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I can't say for sure, but I do know that at small liberal arts colleges, men are on the verge of being considered "minority" applicants and given special consideration for admissions. With the big time growth of college athletics, more and more teenage boys are making their college choices based on their favorite college sports teams (not as prospective players, just as fans). Conversely, fewer and fewer are interested in small liberal arts colleges with Division III sports.
 
'chet said:
How much does varsity sport potential help for a female applicant to Harvard?
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Potential is too vague of a word. All recruited athletes are evaluated by coaches who submit their own recommendations to admissions. For walk ons, having played a sport in high school and intending to play it in college will not mean very much, more like another extracurricular.
 
'fatguyinalittlecoat said:
I have a kid in 3rd grade. What's the lowest-effort thing I can do now that will yield the highest benefit when she applies to college in nine years?
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The calculating application reader in me says yell at the school administration until she's in the advanced math class. Level of math is an amazing indication of success in college, especially for women. The former teacher in me says don't even start thinking about it. Let your daughter grow and nurture whatever interests she develops. Don't raise her with "outcome expectations" parenting.
 
'Sweet Love said:
My kid is just in 4th grade, but we have been saving for college, so I do have a few questions.I also went to one of those stuffy schools and found an interesting trend. I had no clue where I wanted to go to school and my father is a college professor. He figured, "apply to them all", so that is what I did...total of 17 schools. Probably 15 of those fit into two categories; small liberal arts schools in the North East (I am from NJ originally), and larger, public and private schools in the South East. This was in the early-mid 90s and I remember that it was actually easier for me to get into the private, liberal arts schools (though they were ranked a good deal higher), than for me to get into the bigger southern universities (ranked lower).With the prices of private schools over 50k now (and the state of the economy), are they pretty easy to get into compared to the public universities which are much more affordable?
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Definitely not. Admissions rates at the most prestigious schools have plummeted in the past decade. We're talking less than 10% at about ten schools. And it's only going down. Those schools also have, by far, the most financial aid resources. They admit completely need-blind, which is something most other schools cannot afford to do. That might also be a reason why those public schools did not want to admit you. If they had to pay for you to come, they were less likely to want you to.
 
I've heard South Hampton Institute of Technology has a very progressive structure & is open to most freethinkers. Thoughts?

 
If the school's defensive coordinator asks me to hit the showers with him as part of the school tour, is that normal?

 
'Shirtless said:
'Sweet Love said:
My kid is just in 4th grade, but we have been saving for college, so I do have a few questions.I also went to one of those stuffy schools and found an interesting trend. I had no clue where I wanted to go to school and my father is a college professor. He figured, "apply to them all", so that is what I did...total of 17 schools. Probably 15 of those fit into two categories; small liberal arts schools in the North East (I am from NJ originally), and larger, public and private schools in the South East. This was in the early-mid 90s and I remember that it was actually easier for me to get into the private, liberal arts schools (though they were ranked a good deal higher), than for me to get into the bigger southern universities (ranked lower).With the prices of private schools over 50k now (and the state of the economy), are they pretty easy to get into compared to the public universities which are much more affordable?
Click to expand...
Definitely not. Admissions rates at the most prestigious schools have plummeted in the past decade. We're talking less than 10% at about ten schools. And it's only going down. Those schools also have, by far, the most financial aid resources. They admit completely need-blind, which is something most other schools cannot afford to do. That might also be a reason why those public schools did not want to admit you. If they had to pay for you to come, they were less likely to want you to.
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Interesting...the school I went to was Wesleyan University (which someone mentioned above) and you are correct, they do have need-blind admissions...with that said, I will never forget the day a recruit came to our hockey game, hung out with the boys and the coach was stoked. Basically said, "he is 6'2, 215, and has a 1350 SAT score...kid did not end up getting in (which honestly was a shock to everyone in the locker room, since none of us had those credentials). I went in not asking for money, as my father was quick to say, "doesn't matter what their structure is, if you apply for assistance, you are opening yourself up to problems...need blind is a neat concept, but even then (in the mid-90s) the school struggled with the fact whether it was economically feasible...my guess is that they "cheat" from time-to-time and "peak" and then make a decision.
 
'Osaurus said:
What's the best way to scam a college for in-state residency as a non-resident?
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Best way is to roll the dice and just check the box that says you are a resident. I did that and got into a school in New York. The pickier schools, like UC Berkeley, are likely to verify, but someplace like San Francisco State may not. Otherwise, you'll probably need to get a state issued DL a year in advance of enrollment. You could try to get some other bill like insurance in the state as long as you have a friend or relative willing to help, but I doubt that will still work.
 
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